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Offline Synel

Asking opinions on possible server features
« on: Feb 17, 2020, 01:38 pm »
So, I wrote up the basic features of a server once I got my hands on the tools needed to do so. I wanted to ask some opinions on whether it’s sounds like it would make for a good server or not.

Weapons have been made more widely accessible to different classes such that, once you reach third job, rather than getting the gambit of third job skills, you can choose to select any number of skills which allow you to expand your characters capabilities a bit. It won’t be anything that will make you a full fledged magic user if you’re a rune Knight, for instance, but it can make for some diversity.

Skills which you get in other classes for weapon masteries will allow you to use those weapons once they reach level 5 (all masteries are available for all classes once they hit third job.) This also allows dual wielding with 5/10 points in dual wielding, firearms and some magic.

You get better with those weapons through use thanks to a script I found here (been while and I forgot the name) but it’s basically weapon masteries.

Example of consequences of the above, gunslinger: Pistols have been made one handed. This allows a gunslinger to use a shield if he were to choose to do so. However, stats and slots have been modified on pistols such that they reach comparable attack/attack speeds when dual wielded and half of that effectively when only using one. Shields do have a detrimental effect on ASPD when used and using only a single gun also has it’s advantages. Each hand is calculated separately in terms of cards and bonus’.

I’d also like to implement two new classes, those being beast and dragon tamer but I don’t know enough to give them new sprites. I can program the system which allows the taming of any beast/dragon and tweak it so it’s balanced, as well as giving custom skill/class tree,but I don’t want to just have them with copied basic sprites.

Finally, rather than having a blunt force, p2w system of donating, I wanted to incentivize the creation and maintenance of guilds by giving guild towns features which benefit its members. This would include a non-immersion breaking system which gives guild members access to mvp respawn time monitoring or certain guild facilities/components which are usable by different classes, for example. Beast and dragon stables which dragon/beast tamers can contribute to in order to spawn monsters in guild castles owned by that guild (iffy on this feature.) Or a duchy for lord knight, which is basically filled with squires who can take care of all basic knights needs for free (think literal squires from historical accounts.) Maybe even a guild hunting/scavenging system where you select a map and it auto generates droppable items you can find on that map at a set rate.  Stuff like that.

Does any of this sound like it would be enjoyable/good or does it sound stupid? Thoughts please from anyone willing.




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Offline tro_thomas

Re: Asking opinions on possible server features
« Reply #1 on: Feb 17, 2020, 05:41 pm »
They seem like interesting ideas for sure. However, I'm not certain how successful the first few ideas might be. The RO community from what I've seen is quite averse to change, and it might be a bit too out there for most people. If you're looking to work on it as a hobby, or for some friends, you can definitely make these ideas work. however, it will take a lot of tweaking to make it balanced, while still being good enough to consider using. The job ideas seem interesting as well, however, you could probably consolidate it into one class instead, then use the other two unused class slots for something else. I also have a solution for your issue with reusing the class sprites, if you choose to use the method that I think you're using. The guild features sound great, I really like the idea of tying new features to donation incentives. I think it's pretty fresh. Again though, you need to tweak it in a way to minimize complaints from players.

The first point would work pretty well in a pre-re environment. I remember way back, I'd use a fireblend alc while leveling, so I could make an acid demo build right from the start. Using ideas like that could definitely help patch up holes in certain builds, or create new and interesting ways to play certain classes. Making a STR alc wasn't very good from what I can remember, so leveling it was a pain. If you could give them access to spells, their INT builds would feel much smoother to play. But I think there would need to be a lot of thought put into it, so it doesn't make certain classes unwanted because they're no longer relevant. In a renewal setting, this is much harder to achieve, especially if you're trying to keep skills up to date with KRO. There's also a lot more you have to test, and a lot more skill combinations you need to keep in mind while giving classes certain skills. So for this point, I would say it's merit as an idea is proportional to how much work and effort you put into it.

Weapon masteries, I'm a bit on the fence about. If you limit the mastery to weapons that each class is able to use, it could add more replayability, and keep people playing to maximize their damage further. But compared to the previous point, even more thought and effort needs to be put into this, since you need to account for both skills AND items, as well as making it good enough to be worth the time, but not too good to sky rocket the damage. If you're going for custom item progression, there isn't much of a downside to balancing this though. As for using weapons that a class can't normally use, you'll get sprite errors unless you add different weapon sprites to each class, or remove the view of the weapons in the database. Same verdict as the previous idea I'd say. Can be good, but depends on how much you work on it.

As for the new classes, I think they're a bit too similar to each other to be separate classes, and would probably work better as a single class with multiple skill branches. So there would be a dragon branch and a beast branch, each doing their own thing. Like one could be support, and the other damage as an example. Something to diversify the class and make it more than just popping out a monster and being done with it. On my own server, I've been working on making death knight functional, and I found that in order to make the class use different sprites, you would need to hex the client to make it use different sprites. Since I'm not too familiar with hexing, even less so when half of it is in wingdings, since the program I use can't read Korean characters, I thought of a work around. I made a new bodystyle for the normal knight job by placing the new sprite in the costume_1 folder in the GRF. Then, I changed the source to allow non-third classes to use bodystyle, and made an NPC which handles the bodystyle switching, that prevents the normal knight and the new class from using it. I then changed the job changer to change the bodystyle of the class upon change. The downside to this is that if some one resets their character on the control panel, it will go back to the original sprite. So ideally, if you can hex the client to accept new sprites, that's the best possible way to handle this.

A bit of additional info that you didn't specifically ask for: If you're using the scrapped classes as a base for the new classes, you'll need to be careful when implementing their skills. Since 2/3 of them are considered 2nd class, you might run into issues where you can't level your skills naturally. You'll probably need to either set them as a second job to one of the existing classes, or make it so that it's not required to spend all your skill points on previous jobs. Perhaps you could make beast tamer job 1, and dragon tamer job 2. up to you.

I really like the guild town idea. Not too much more I could say to expand upon this, basically the same as before. Thought + effort = good. Just need to be sure to make it good enough to be purchased, but not too good to get complaints.
« Last Edit: Feb 17, 2020, 06:07 pm by tro_thomas »

Offline Synel

Re: Asking opinions on possible server features
« Reply #2 on: Feb 17, 2020, 09:15 pm »
Thanks for responding Thomas. Especially, thank you for the workaround and information on giving sprites to custom jobs. It's been one of the main issues holding me back since I've been told I'd have to know assembly language in order to modify and add things on that end. The other problem is simply that the map editors I've found out there seem to have issues -_-. Brow edit for example.

That aside, what you mentioned about the RO community being averse to change is a concern I have with these ideas. The reasons behind my wanting to expand things a bit is specifically hinder the development and discovery of metas' in game and to make any character more of a unique entity. Giving each class enough general variability I think may help on both accounts, so long as those variables are potent enough to make them worthwhile. Like allowing the creation of a mage with a focus on "cast on attack" skills and passive defenses. AKA mage knight. Overall though, I think you summed it up well with the work and effort comment. It would take a lot of time and effort to make everything work well.

The classes for beast and dragon tamer were going to be different paths from another branch, like you mentioned. TBH, I'm taking a lot of inspiration there from the Ogre Battle series. If you're familiar with the series (Ogre battle 64 specifically) then hopefully a theme will come to mind :D.

Regardless, I'm going to try and make it work at some point. Whether it's successful on a larger scale or not isn't too important (although it also is since being profitable would be preferable.) Again, thank you for your thoughts and input.