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Author Topic: [Renewal] [Thoughts?] No-Custom PvP / WoE  (Read 5844 times)

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Offline cRO Ghost

[Renewal] [Thoughts?] No-Custom PvP / WoE
« on: Dec 24, 2014, 01:56 am »
So, I admin on a server and we have a ton of customs, some fairly high powered because it was made to be a challenge to get them, after 3 years and looking at how WoE / PvP is now, myself and some other staff members decided that we need to breath some life into some of the PvP / WoE aspects again, and bring new players into it.

So basically there's a WoE time now (not running yet, scripted and set to run next week, so no in-game feedback yet on it)
and a PvP event, where zero custom items work, and healing items are very limited, no percentheal items, and very few other healing items, essentially you're stuck with potions and some of the things like big defense potion (redeemable on this server, won't get into that since this isn't an advertisement.)

I wanted to get feedback from members of RMS, is this an idea with some weight?
If you were new to a server with a lot of customs, would you be interested in getting setup for this WoE / PvP Event? (PvP event is scripted and daily)

What concerns would you have, and what ideas might you have?

Let me know, thanks. <3


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Offline HobbesWasRight

Re: [Renewal] [Thoughts?] No-Custom PvP / WoE
« Reply #1 on: Dec 24, 2014, 02:56 am »
So what I'm more or less hearing is that you're planning to make a "PVP event" where you restrict your server's custom items as well as other common resources from the players.  This isn't anything ground-breaking, and is actually rather default on servers which employ competitive PVP/WOE, to stop battles from reaching a stalemate based on resources.

If you want to "breathe life" into WOE/PVP again, you're going to have to create new modes of gameplay yourself, or brainstorm between yourself and the fellow administrators on your team for those ideas; proactivity is the first step towards some level of healthy productivity.  For example, on Woon, I saw something along the lines of a "king of the hill"-based event.  I never looked into it personally, but somebody had to have come up with the idea, scripted it in after gaining universal approval, and successfully implemented without any visible detriments to the final product.

These things take a lot of meticulous care to put together.  Ensure that it doesn't harm the server economics or morale, and you should be ready to implement ideas which are enough to get you and your team some desired results.

Offline cRO Ghost

Re: [Renewal] [Thoughts?] No-Custom PvP / WoE
« Reply #2 on: Dec 24, 2014, 01:09 pm »
I remember king of the hill scripts on eAthena when 3rd jobs were myths.. But I'm sure the one you're referring to is custom to the server.


My server does have its own custom type of PvP event, fairly detailed and more than just kill each other (also a randomized team event) as well as different types of WoE, I've been playing RO since the comodo release and haven't seen any server disable customs other than the insanely unbalanced, or they at least change them when in a gvg mapflag. I wanted to put a 'vanilla' spin on a server that has developed customs for years, giving the new players who haven't been able to get all those customs a chance to shine with skill instead of pure gear.


Offline HobbesWasRight

Re: Re: [Renewal] [Thoughts?] No-Custom PvP / WoE
« Reply #3 on: Dec 24, 2014, 01:17 pm »
I remember king of the hill scripts on eAthena when 3rd jobs were myths.. But I'm sure the one you're referring to is custom to the server.


My server does have its own custom type of PvP event, fairly detailed and more than just kill each other (also a randomized team event) as well as different types of WoE, I've been playing RO since the comodo release and haven't seen any server disable customs other than the insanely unbalanced, or they at least change them when in a gvg mapflag. I wanted to put a 'vanilla' spin on a server that has developed customs for years, giving the new players who haven't been able to get all those customs a chance to shine with skill instead of pure gear.


That's fine, what you're talking about here is "accessibility", as to accommodate for new players.  There's multiple ways of going about this, but I wouldn't so much be calling that "refreshing" as much as I would be calling it "expanding your audience".  If you want to truly "refresh" the way that things are done in Ragnarok, you're going to have to give players more ways to get involved in the game itself, rather than go through the factory-line motions of grinding, farming, PVPing and WOEing.  There are two ways you can do this:

1. Creating more social options

2. Creating more gameplay options


There's nothing wrong with what you suggest in your original post; I'm merely criticizing its deep lack of ambition, and it won't perpetuate the interest of others for long periods of time.  If you want people to come back to your server, you're going to have to sell them a product to which they won't find anywhere else.

Offline cRO Ghost

Re: Re: Re: [Renewal] [Thoughts?] No-Custom PvP / WoE
« Reply #4 on: Dec 24, 2014, 01:36 pm »

That's fine, what you're talking about here is "accessibility", as to accommodate for new players.  There's multiple ways of going about this, but I wouldn't so much be calling that "refreshing" as much as I would be calling it "expanding your audience".  If you want to truly "refresh" the way that things are done in Ragnarok, you're going to have to give players more ways to get involved in the game itself, rather than go through the factory-line motions of grinding, farming, PVPing and WOEing.  There are two ways you can do this:

1. Creating more social options

2. Creating more gameplay options


There's nothing wrong with what you suggest in your original post; I'm merely criticizing its deep lack of ambition, and it won't perpetuate the interest of others for long periods of time.  If you want people to come back to your server, you're going to have to sell them a product to which they won't find anywhere else.

I understand that, the point of this topic wasn't asking how to bring players back or get new players, it was asking people their opinions on this type of idea.

People who preferably have been in one or more of the following situations:

1) Played a server for years, have enough custom gear to do tons of damage, and know the customs well enough to counter what others might use.

2) Joined a server that's been active for years, only to see that there are people with enough customs to one shot you, unless you have a large amount of customs to counter them.(Some customs are hard to acquire and require group/guild efforts)

If anyone has been in those situations, I'd like to know how they would feel about reading these types of ideas for said server if they were in that situation again.

(BTW thanks for the replies, HobbesWasRight, not wanting to be rude, but asking for a centralized/focused feedback on this idea alone)


Offline HobbesWasRight

Re: [Renewal] [Thoughts?] No-Custom PvP / WoE
« Reply #5 on: Dec 24, 2014, 03:59 pm »
If it's about your centralized idea, all of my points still apply: it's a fine idea on its own, but you're not doing anything revolutionary or groundbreaking.  Consider my other thoughts and you might come to new conclusions and ideas for the future.

Offline ggwp

Re: [Renewal] [Thoughts?] No-Custom PvP / WoE
« Reply #6 on: Dec 25, 2014, 10:40 am »
Renewal WoE without new 175/60 skill update ? Only defending guild RK would get the fun killing hundreds people because how retarded old Dragon Breath if the defending guild know how to maximize the damage into 40-60k / hit on fire element people using Tao RK DB. 3 RK would enough to kill anything except Steel Body Shura.

That PvP event would be MvP carded Kage/Obo slaughtering noobs with Overthrow and Killing Stroke while spamming Pure Soul + Hide + Shadow Jump. The pros would run out their limited healing and would die to them eventually.

Offline cRO Ghost

Re: [Renewal] [Thoughts?] No-Custom PvP / WoE
« Reply #7 on: Dec 25, 2014, 12:05 pm »
That's closer to the feedback I want. I'm not afraid to balance skills on that map to be finite and not overpowered, I don't want to see one shots(maybe skills that take a lot, like asura strike) I want to see people using tactics and working as groups.

My understanding is you're concerned that some classes/builds can easily destroy entire groups of people?


Offline Yozakura

Re: [Renewal] [Thoughts?] No-Custom PvP / WoE
« Reply #8 on: Dec 25, 2014, 04:34 pm »
IMO it's the reductions that need to be rebalanced. Yep, I'm looking at those WoE sets. It just kills build diversity altogether. Sure, in kRO it's all cool, but that's considering their population, their economy (*cough* all those god items and mvp cards) and the available gear. The mechanics are fine-tuned for their needs, not for private servers with barely any, if not none at all, of those goodies. Full reducs = minimal risk. That's no fun.

As far as rebalancing PVP/WoE, I'd say buff up two-handed weapons, maybe give them skill damage boosts or maybe even reduction bypass (oh goodie), to actually make them viable in PVP instead of forcing everyone to use the same gear. Then give gear switching a considerable delay, especially weapons and shields. High-risk gameplay basically, you drop some of your survivability for a huge buff in firepower. With that, you have options, and whichever you take, the other guy has a way to deal with you. Then, there's no "superior build," and it's just about playing the right moves, mind games, and anticipating what your opponent could do.

And considering how horrendous magic damage is in renewal, it could use a good boost as well.

As for Dragon Breath, didn't it get nerfed to be reduced by demi gear and dependent on HIT now?

Edit: Argh, I focused to much on the last two posts, and realized I'm almost completely off-topic, as far as "no custom" goes. Sorry for being half-asleep. >_>
« Last Edit: Dec 25, 2014, 04:53 pm by Yozakura »

“On that day, the bees received a grim reminder. They lived in fear of the hornets and were disgraced to live in these cages they called hives."

» 新劇の雀蜂 «

Offline cRO Ghost

Re: Re: [Renewal] [Thoughts?] No-Custom PvP / WoE
« Reply #9 on: Dec 25, 2014, 07:43 pm »
IMO it's the reductions that need to be rebalanced. Yep, I'm looking at those WoE sets. It just kills build diversity altogether. Sure, in kRO it's all cool, but that's considering their population, their economy (*cough* all those god items and mvp cards) and the available gear. The mechanics are fine-tuned for their needs, not for private servers with barely any, if not none at all, of those goodies. Full reducs = minimal risk. That's no fun.

As far as rebalancing PVP/WoE, I'd say buff up two-handed weapons, maybe give them skill damage boosts or maybe even reduction bypass (oh goodie), to actually make them viable in PVP instead of forcing everyone to use the same gear. Then give gear switching a considerable delay, especially weapons and shields. High-risk gameplay basically, you drop some of your survivability for a huge buff in firepower. With that, you have options, and whichever you take, the other guy has a way to deal with you. Then, there's no "superior build," and it's just about playing the right moves, mind games, and anticipating what your opponent could do.

And considering how horrendous magic damage is in renewal, it could use a good boost as well.

As for Dragon Breath, didn't it get nerfed to be reduced by demi gear and dependent on HIT now?

Edit: Argh, I focused to much on the last two posts, and realized I'm almost completely off-topic, as far as "no custom" goes. Sorry for being half-asleep. >_>

It's alright, this is feedback I'll be needing as it develops, the server's been active since June 1st 2012. Since then we've done a lot on terms of balancing classes with standard items, and feel as though the KVM gear is going to play a large role and will make sure we balance them accordingly as the times go on.

As far as the main point being no customs, I wanted a sort of "hype" as there is one custom that ends up being fairly overpowered when stacked up multiple times (And a balancing act is in the works, but that's a different topic) so instead of a "Get Custom X and 3 Custom Ys" sort of idea, we want to let people use older types of builds and gear, make getting faster cast time something that's going to hurt your damage and survivability.. It'll be a learning process for both the staff and players, which I'm excited for both sides to see how everyone reacts to certain things. (I personally carry an Argiope Card Armor incase I see an assassin use Enchant Deadly Poison.)


Offline Yozakura

Re: [Renewal] [Thoughts?] No-Custom PvP / WoE
« Reply #10 on: Dec 25, 2014, 09:51 pm »
Honestly though, I think reduction bypassing gear is what RO needs for balance purposes, due to how easy it is to stack up reducs. Since using two-handed weapons gets rid of your 30% shield reduction slot, I think it's the perfect position to implement it. Dual wielding sounds good too.

“On that day, the bees received a grim reminder. They lived in fear of the hornets and were disgraced to live in these cages they called hives."

» 新劇の雀蜂 «

Offline cRO Ghost

Re: [Renewal] [Thoughts?] No-Custom PvP / WoE
« Reply #11 on: Jan 03, 2015, 07:40 am »
First test in-game was Wednesday, it seems to have actually went pretty well. There was a lot of hype for it and people seem excited.

So far the feedback I've gained from my player-base is limited, but (currently) it looks fairly balanced, we're making a slight change to Tiger Cannon for balance (very slight change) and making sure we're keeping an eye on all parts of the action as it goes on.

More details will come on what we do to balance the system!


Offline Zia

Re: [Renewal] [Thoughts?] No-Custom PvP / WoE
« Reply #12 on: Jan 31, 2015, 01:12 am »
The issue that this pvp mode isn't ground breaking was brought up and I'd have to agree that having a "classic pvp mode" doesn't necessarily up the ante.
However, I do know that your server has several innovative and interesting features that make the game non-stagnant so I don't think that's much of an issue. If anything, it's a good additional content so that your players can find something else to do. This allows your server to cater to a whole different bunch of people that doesn't like customs.

Anyway, goodluck on your project. :)