MVP-ing as a Sniper, any advice?

[Relics]

The 'best' would actually be, if you don't count TG, 2AK, 1 Race, 1 Element.. for example vs Garm

2AK (1.5), 1Goblin (1.2), 1Drainliar (1.2)  = 1.5 * 1.2 * 1.2 = 2.16

4AK is the worst to do if you're using AK's (4ak = 2.0) since even 1 AK, 2 Race 1 Size = 1.25 * 1.4 * 1.15 = 2.0125
2 AK 2 race = 1.5 * 1.4 = 2.1 and 3AK + 1 race = 1.75 * 1.2 = 2.1

[Leamee]

First of all, thanks a lot for all the screenshots. It looks like you've taken a lot of time to explain all of this to me and I'm really grateful  
I noticed that you're using not-so-shabby renewal equips while I'm still using non-renewal stuff. Do you know who drops the dragon manteau and the dragon vest? I believe that either dragon vest or dragon manteau is dropped by the new MVP that's in the nest dungeon, so I guess that kind of equip would be quite pricey. I looked up both items on RMS but it looks like the database is slightly outdated.

Bless+Agi and the grass field with the addition of Provoke (Aloe Vera)

Does the grass field have any influence on the damage you can deal on Garm? Maybe it's another renewal thing I don't know about  
I kind of guessed that you were using aloevera, I should try it too.

I couldn't tell the difference between a +0 and a +10 since if I get hit It'll probably trigger a lock on me and I'll just die. But anyways, that's just me. And a +7 to +10 would grant you +9 Hard Def. That may save your life but I really rather run than stand and tank.

Same here. I really like your equips by the way. +5/+6 is the way to go   What's the last card that's in your bow and did you use that bow on all the MVPs for the demo? I looked up roween card as I'd never heard of it and its effects are very very sweet.

And yes, defense does matter. Kasa (23 def) = DS peaked at 7.9K for me on calc and on RMS test serv if you use aloevera and GG card, otherwise ~7.7K.

when MVP hunting its better to use a [4AK] compo than [2AK+2random card] compo... forgot the link but i have read it here at RMS forums.

Symbol is right. I don't think AKs stack but in any case, on Kasa (my favorite guinea pig)
+10 compo bow AK AK Vadon Peco (with bless agi snip buffs GG card aloevera): = the ideal bow to kill kasas
Minimum Damage   7082(3541X2hit) Average Damage   7514(3757X2hit) Maximum Damage   7940(3970X2hit)
With +10 compo bow AK AK AK AK and the same buffs:
Minimum Damage   6612(3306X2hit) Average Damage   7016(3508X2hit) Maximum Damage   7412(3706X2hit)
This calculator is extremely accurate, which means that you lose 500 per DS = ~1.5K dps which is quite a lot. Plus AK cards are way expensive.
With AK AK (25% 25%) and mino mino (15% 15% !!!)
Minimum Damage   6600(3300X2hit) Average Damage   6986(3493X2hit) Maximum Damage   7374(3687X2hit)

Ideally you'd want 4 different cards in your bow if you weren't able to use 2 AKs as you get a penalty each time you use the same card twice and it gets worse and worse as you use it more. 4 AKs = 2 AKs 2 Minos means that the AKs are only worth 15%~18% when you stack them I guess.
However, 3 AKs 1 Mino:
Minimum Damage   6726(3363X2hit) Average Damage   7132(3566X2hit) Maximum Damage   7532(3766X2hit)
I'd rather use 2 AKs and 2 Minos because Minos are cheaper and the difference between AK AK AK and AK AK is very small.
AK AK AK AK is really a waste as adding one Mino improves the damage - Relics is right.  

I also have another question: does anyone know how to kill Orc Lord / Orc Hero / Atroce as a Sniper and if it's even possible?
I'll test some more stuff when I get the time, thanks everybody!

[Symbol]

I'm really glad to help. When I started MVPing I had the same problems and figured everything out by myself, taking a lot longer to get the basics.

Do you know who drops the dragon manteau and the dragon vest?

Dragon Vest is dropped by Draco and Dragon Manteau is a reward for the El Dicastes quest. RMS database is kinda outdated on the Renewal drops. But that's just while Renewal sets itself.

Does the grass field have any influence on the damage you can deal on Garm?

Naah. I was on the field (prt_fild08) because I'd just killed the Lutie Garm and I always do my testings on Prontera Fields. The only difference is the actual Provoke.

What's the last card that's in your bow and did you use that bow on all the MVPs for the demo?

The Garm bow was a 2 AK / 1 Minoros / 1 Drainliar. The Moonlight was a 2 AK / 1 Skel Worker / 1 Vadon.
However, as stated by Relics above, I completely forgot about racial cards. If you swap the Minoros for a Goblin Card, you'll get a 2,34 multiplier instead of a 2,24.

as you get a penalty each time you use the same card twice

As far as I know, the card penalty stuff isn't true. Cards with the same script stack infinitely. Cards with different scrips don't.

does anyone know how to kill Orc Lord / Orc Hero / Atroce as a Sniper and if it's even possible?

I never actually tried to solo OL/OH but Atroce is simple, as long as you have the patience to take him off. Just lure the Gallions away or take a couple down and trap Atroce all the way.

[Leamee]

I'm really glad to help. When I started MVPing I had the same problems and figured everything out by myself, taking a lot longer to get the basics.

Again, thank you *so* much. I had to figure out how to make zenys quickly on my own and I really wish someone had told me that selling rough eluniums or quest items to NPCs isn't a very good idea. As you said, when you're alone, getting the basics takes a ridiculously long time.

Dragon Vest is dropped by Draco and Dragon Manteau is a reward for the El Dicastes quest.

Ok, so those are pretty easy to get Thanks!

The Garm bow was a 2 AK / 1 Minoros / 1 Drainliar. The Moonlight was a 2 AK / 1 Skel Worker / 1 Vadon.

Thanks for the info   It's true that goblin would be better than minorous but your DS is already very impressive so I don't think it really matters. I'd be super happy if I could deal that much damage per DS!

As far as I know, the card penalty stuff isn't true. Cards with the same script stack infinitely. Cards with different scrips don't.

I don't know. Gravity keeps updating the game and changing stuff up but I guess it's that not important anyway since we all agree that 2 AK + racial + element is the way to go.  

Luckily, all the elemental bows you mentioned are easy to get as a hunter (minus burning bow if you don't have jakk and pasana, which is a shame because even an archer can equip it but I guess you can buy a cheap one from a more experienced sniper).

I've also been wondering about the best way to kill incarnations of morroc. Since they all have pneuma I don't know if they even are killeable by a sniper as they are mini bosses and thus immune to the knock-back effect of charge arrow. Come to think of it, an ME priest would probably do well there.


Edit: I also have trouble killing Skogul and Frus (and Skeggiold but I doubt that Snipers can solo Skeggiolds...)
Do you have any advice? I guess that one is fine with silver arrows and the right bow but when you get mobbed it's goodbye.
Am I doing something wrong?

[Relics]

Skid traps, but the usage of that is limited ever since arrow shower doesn't replace them anymore..

I guess you could place skid traps infront of you always and when the mob aggro walks to you, it'll be pushed back everytime giving you space to DS.

[Leamee]

Skid traps, but the usage of that is limited ever since arrow shower doesn't replace them anymore..

Yeah, I'd have to practice first. That said, it's a great idea   An SP-draining one, but a really cool one.
When I get the time I'll log on to RMS and practice a little bit on some random MVP or warp to odin and try to work out how to deal with mob aggros.
Kicking butt in Ice Dungeon 3 was also high on my list for some reason, I can't remember why.
Thanks for the suggestion!
Posted on: Jan 16, 2011, 06:18 amOkay, I have a question regarding garm. Most of the time I can kill him without any problem but sometimes it seems like he goes into berserk mode. I just resu'ed myself 3 times and each time I hit him it's the same story. He runs into me really fast and I'm dead again. I wonder if he only does that when his HP is low because usually he goes berserk then heals then hits again.
It can't possibly be storm gust as I have ED so I really don't know. As I said I can kill him fine 4 times out of 5. I looked up his skills and he doesn't have provoke or anything of that kind so I'm clueless right now.
Edit: I think I just double-posted, sorry. Anyway, everything was fine and I thought that running like crazy was the solution but he just OHKOed me again. It's really really weird - maybe I'm lagging a lot, who knows.
Edit bis: After around 15-20 garms, I can confirm that he does go into berserk mode, even when I activate effects and run to avoid his deadly storm gust.
5 things happen:
1. He heals like crazy.
2. He slows you down
3. He becomes faster
4. He storm gusts/ beats the ... out of you.
5. If you happen to resu yourself, more often than not you'll see a series of "Miss" when you try to hit him. It's worse than defender because he becomes immune to ANY attack. It lasts quite a long time too. It does wear off after a while though.
Has anyone experienced this before? I'm not asking you guys to kill 20 Garms in a row, but I was wondering.

Edit bis: I think I got it, though there's no foolproof method to not die. It's a boss after all - even low-tiers can OHKO pretty much any class if they decide to go 'zerk. That said, I killed him 12 times in a row without dying. I think he only went berserk once. I recognized the warning signs, which are mainly agi UP + decrease agi then SG SG, I ate the first SG (he slows you down so it's near-impossible not to take some dmg) then noticed that he was still walking freakishly fast. I started DSing and what a surprise, a series of "Miss". I managed to outrun him somehow and decided to sit near him but out of screen and waited for the berserk to wear off. Sure enough, 2 minutes later he was back to his normal sucky self  and I was able to finish him off.

I guess you need to know your enemy before you go to war 
I'll probably kill each low-tier MVP about 20 times just to get a feel for MVPing. Moreover, knowing them that well will allow me to dodge their deadliest attacks. Next in line is Eddga, then Phree. If I manage to kill them 10-12 times in a row without dying and without pots, I'll pick another MVP.

[Relics]

http://ratemyserver.net/index.php?page=mob_skill_analysis&m_id=1252&m_name=Garm

>  Agility UP [Lv 5]   
attack - HP lower than 30 percent

Not sure how much this modifies his behavior if it's about casting spells and such, but yeah he 100% buffs himself when his HP drops below 30%.. subsequently this should also raise his flee by a bunch.

[Leamee]

Thanks a lot for the info.  I didn't know you could get a skill analysis for each monster. That's so cool!
I'm learning more and more every day. Apparently, Agi UP is cancellable, and I guess that most of the time my DS-ing like crazy cancels his Agi UP, but that sometimes I have to take a break to avoid the baby garms and that he gets the chance to cast it.
Honestly, once he's Agi UP it's game over, next time I see him buffing himself I'll either TP or run like crazy and sit, since I can't even touch him. Thanks again, now I feel quite proud about having killed him 12 times in a row without pots and without dying. 

[Symbol]

Sorry for not making clear that you could have it's Skills analyzed. The link on the MVP page I meant was the exact skill analysis.
Besides the Agi Up Relics pointed out, your Garm issue COULD be his lock. When you DS spam him, he sometimes simply stay on the place he was and suddenly rushes towards you.
I've never seen it A LOT with others MVPs but with Garm it's rare *not to* happen. As for me, I've never actually seen him Agi Up himself because whenever you see him casting something I simply keep spamming DS. It's not because of the Storm Gust, but mainly the Wide Freeze that can get you killed if you don't have a slave Sasquatch near you.

If you still have trouble with MVPs AGI UP (like Incantation and Turtle G.) you can always bring a Professor for dispelling. :#

[Leamee]

Thanks a bunch, Symbol! You described my main problem perfectly. It seems like DSing from afar is safe but he suddenly rushes toward you. I've never tried killing inc or turtle but I think that I found a method to survive Garm's lock. I'm typing on my Blackberry so sorry for the typos. Anyway when I'm home I'll do another MVP killing session, thanks again