SBk vs EDP

Started by Glenn, Mar 23, 2007, 01:46 PM

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Slaw

Defender should work against Soul Destroyer.

And Glenn, yes, the cast time isn't very long at all. But it still HAS a cast time. If you're playing against a decent player, that time is enough for them to interrupt or dodge you in one way or another. And they're you're screwed by the insane after-cast delay.

EDP-SL-SB is indeed a very simple build, and most players do know how to play it okay. However, a hit from a fully buffed EDP-SL-SB is always instant kill (taking into consideration Lex Aeterna, there should be atleast 5-6 active good priests in any decent private server guild), while Soul Destroyer deals less damage, is easier to dodge, and has a longer after-cast delay (Not 100% sure about the delay, the semi-recent changes to Sonic Blow gave it a nasty delay as well).

Also, EDP-SB build does require some skill to utilize to it's fullest. You'll have to time item swapping really well, from all-out strength gear and a good pvp katar (such as a bloody infiltrator), into all-out defensive gear such as poopoo/beret/feather beret and a thara guard.

Then there's the insanely big bonus of EDP-SB builds having way more vit than Soul Destroyer builds. As Soul Destroyer is based on both your normal attack value and your int, plus has a cast time that is reduced by dex, you will be needing quite a bit in all those stats. Sonic Blow is only based on your attack value, and, even though you do get some dex for hit ratio, agi users in WoE has become rather rare.

Glenn

You can't say one is better then the other, because it's all opinionated. Some people are better at playing different playstyles and they are VERY different play styles.

I've played both, but I think SBk is more fun; Personally. It's really not easy as you say to dodge(Like what half a second with SOME dex, surely not enough time to hide or whatever). It DOES pass through defender too. If you know what your doing you can be hitting like 5k~ on good people, while taking little to no damage. Plus they are good for finishers(pvp killsteals XD) I played SBk for a long time, and it does work better then people give creidt.

The fact that it has a cast time/delay is kind of irrelivent. Considering it's ranged, and  only has 1 second extra delay(where you can walk around) compared to SB(where you stand NEXT to the guy for the whole 2 seconds), and the cast time is negligable if you have decent def.

For my playing style SB was just too boring for me. You can't say one's better then the other simply because people play different styles better then others. It's all to personal disgression. They both are good. (I'm just an SBker for life =|)
-- Ragna-Retired --

Slaw

QuoteYou can't say one is better then the other, because it's all opinionated. Some people are better at playing different playstyles and they are VERY different play styles.

Uhm. EDP-SL-SB has a way higher damage than Soul Destroyer, any day. Combined with increased hit chance, less reduction from combined armor, and no cast time. Plus you get a better stat build in the end. So I believe I can say EDP-SL-SB is better than Soul Destroyer.

QuoteI've played both, but I think SBk is more fun; Personally. It's really not easy as you say to dodge(Like what half a second with SOME dex, surely not enough time to hide or whatever). It DOES pass through defender too. If you know what your doing you can be hitting like 5k~ on good people, while taking little to no damage. Plus they are good for finishers(pvp killsteals XD) I played SBk for a long time, and it does work better then people give creidt.

If it's about fun, I'd pick Soul Destroyer. But if I wanted a fun class I'd go for a professor or a priest. Assassins are made for being lame, really, and to me, they're one of the most boring classes out there. A 0,5 second cast time is more than enough. With some training, you can dodge 120 dex asura monks easily. Making Soul Destroyer sins too simple to even consider a threat anymore. I'm even willing to go as far as saying any dodgeable skill with an actual cast time is easily dodged, as long as you put some time into training yourself to do it.

Sure, Soul Destroyer works well. Hell, my first assassin cross was a Soul Destroyer build. But really, you can't even begin to compare a 5k hit on "good people" to the 10k+ damage you can throw out with Sonic Blow on the same person.

QuoteThe fact that it has a cast time/delay is kind of irrelivent. Considering it's ranged, and  only has 1 second extra delay(where you can walk around) compared to SB(where you stand NEXT to the guy for the whole 2 seconds), and the cast time is negligable if you have decent def.

Refer to my comment about dodging earlier on in this post.

QuoteFor my playing style SB was just too boring for me. You can't say one's better then the other simply because people play different styles better then others. It's all to personal disgression. They both are good. (I'm just an SBker for life =|)

Refer to the first comment I made in this post.

Transcend

Nat crit sin
1.5 per hit with sidewinder 3K with high ASPD ;)

Glenn

@slaw

You can't compare cast time's to asura, because people SEE the monk. Soul Destroyer; people don't see coming, and usually used as a damage support/finisher.


I know SB has higher damage, but the point wasn't wich one was stronger, it's wich one would people wrather play. Hunting bottles on 1/1/1 is NOT very fun mind you. Nor is having a Soul link at all times feasable(and not likely on small servers).
-- Ragna-Retired --

Slaw

Soul linking's easy. Dual-client. Hunting ingredients is horribly easy. All the drops except one are horribly high drops. Karvos can be bought from any creator.

Glenn

Most servers don't allow dual-clienting. Ingrediants get tedius to hunt on low rates and alot of people are lazy anyways.

Soul Destroyer IS one of the best ranged spells, that in itself will make people play it.
-- Ragna-Retired --

Slaw

Soul Breaker is not one of the best ranged spells. I'll list a few spells/skills that are way better for ya.

Cold Bolt (Double casted and memo'd, of course)
Stone Curse/Fire Bolt combo (Double casted and memo'd, if you're a prof)
Frost Diver/Lightning Bolt (Double casted and memo'd, if you're a prof)
Soul Siphon
Frost Diver/Jupitel Thunder combo
Storm Gust/Jupitel Thunder (Or LoV) combo
Double Strafe
Trap/Charge Arrow combo
Frost Joke/Vulcan Arrow combo
Shield Chain
Spiral Pierce
Pressure

I could keep going, but you get my point, don't you?

So what if a server doesn't allow dual clienting? Has that ever stopped you from doing so? It sure as hell hasn't stopped me. And even if you do decide not to dual client, EDP-SB is strong enough without SL to easily outdo Soul Destroyer's damage. If people are lazy, they should play a game with less grinding. Once again, if someone's too lazy to avoid the obviously better build for a class, they're playing the wrong one.

Glenn

@magics : GTB card

@soul syphon : damage is weak, most people have sp heals anyways.

@charge arrow : knockback disabled in woe, low damage

@frost joke : good people have immune to freeze (I do like Vulcan though)

@shield chain/Spiral : both are allot weaker with close casts/delays

@pressure : cast time and delay ALLOT longer, damage weaker, sp heals

@DS : DS -is- really good all considering, though Defender works against it /sob


Your clearly biased to EDP SB, and your right it didn't stop me till I got banned for dual clienting(Competent GMs?! zomg!). If played well a SBk can be a very formidable opponent, and puts them at less of a risk. Anyways I'm done arguing, I don't even play RO anymore.
-- Ragna-Retired --

Slaw

Since you're done, I'll just post a final comment about the skills, then leave this thread alone. This argument's been going on for too long anyways.

Magic spells: GTB card? A GTB card is very very rare on most servers. You can't really count MVP cards into the standard builds. If we're going to consider those cards, we could also consider custom gears and 4-slot items.

Soul Siphon: Weak damage? It usually one-hits High Wizards and badly built Professors. Sure, people have SP heals, but they're usually not hotkeyed unless they play a Champ. Also, it does take a little time to restore enough SP, just one Blue Potion won't last the entire battle.

Charge Arrow: Actually, that was a mistake on my part. I meant Arrow Shower. I don't play Hunters enough, sorry. Yes, Knockback's removed in WoE, so the trap/shower combo's only good in PvP. But Shower's very useful for lockdowns, and hunting for cloaked Assassins.

Frost Joke: Most people have started trading in their Marc/Evil Druid armors for status armors such as Pest and Dark Frame. The bigger part of the RO community's horrible at swapping gears, so you'll probably get enough time to freeze them once. Then they're dead.

Shield Chain/Spiral: Weaker than Soul Breaker? Maybe you're right. But they're skills for classes with way more HP and def. In my eyes, Assassin Crosses don't have the defensive abilities to survive cast times and skill delays at once.

Pressure: The SP steal is nasty, most people won't hotkey SP healing items. Good skill against high-def players, and horribly fun to play around with.

Double Strafe: Considering most servers let you spam this skill like there's no tomorrow, yes, it is really good. Stupid Hunters. ._.

And yeah, I am biased to EDP-SB builds, because that's what I play. But even if I wasn't, I'm sure I would believe EDP-SB builds are superior to Soul Destroyer ones.

That's all, thanks for an interesting discussion. :>

Smarty

#40
Quote from: ClothoX on Mar 26, 2007, 09:59 PM
Sonic Blow + EDP is a cheap trick in my opinion.  This build is only good for woe and pvp, not for lvling/hunting at all.

Holy crap >_> i did't knew you lacked of ways to lvling as a sin x..Not to flame you but Sonic blow skill build is kinda..way better to lvl with if you want to spend time hunting karvos, ( Just go to removers, 1 % drop wtf on 1/1/1 server, and good exp also) Myself im Soloing Bio 3 on a pretty new server, it's been up for hm 2-3 months? something like that, And well it's damn good exp. Soul breaker can't compair to that i guess. And not to mention Juperos, Wtf Nice nice nice exp, Same with Ra_sanct if got the place alone, really nice exp.

Ima share my build ~ flame it if you like to, but it's hard to kill and got really good damage.
http://img337.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenparadisero450be0.jpg
( The evil ears is just for decaration -.-, Use  Masqurade instead for pvp/woe/lvling)



And can have nice dmg , change accesory to get 130 str also)
My top dmg ( without Gospel and my linker was indeed naked)
http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenparadisero2532ao4.jpg

To compair that with Soul destroyer is just lack of exprince and knowledge of playing Low rate, SB > SD. End of story ^_^

Glenn

#41
The point of this topic was to make a discussion, not one sided attacks.

We all know EDP SB is STRONGER.

It IS slower to level withthen other builds(ie. grimtooth)
It DOES get tedius to hunt for.


Soloing in bio3 is -neer- impossible, and a waste of time with the -new- mobs. Perhaps your server has the old mobs, and/or bio3 dungoen warp. Juperos is better suited for Grimtooth, and -some/most- people don't get grimtooth in thier final build, so if you don't have a resetter.. tough luck.

@Slaw

I mean't that SBk isn't 'blockable' by anything.
SBk can 1 hit wizards too in regards to soul syphon.
@ the sp remarks, items are spammable.. it really doesn't take that long to restore.
After the status card nerf, people have been reverting back.. -most- decent people would have one anyways.
I hotkey everything yay for battle mode.



Can we keep this a discussion, instead of one way argument. It -used- to be a very helpfull topic that explained the ups and downs of both skills, but it's turned into a my skill 'pwns' your skill thread. If it continues I'm just gonna lock it.  That goes for me as well(though I'm only being one sided to defend it, I admit I'd use EDP SB too for the damage.. I usually make one of each[when I play sin, wich was rare])


Sidenote@Smarty: Why are you wearing morpheus and frigg's circlet >.>
-- Ragna-Retired --

Smarty

i used it for the extra sp,need alot sp at bio 3 -.-, And lvl at bio dun 3? impossible? :S, let me fraps it once..if i figur how to do it XD
Even without Grimtooth lvling is Fast, Only couse ur a SB build doest mean you can be hybrid also, get like 67 agi.
Or lvl with MA at Bio 2. Easy stuff

and i just told ya what i think =p

Transcend

even as a sin i lvlup with SB build at odin 2shoting frus and those other demons

Rbread

Quote from: Glenn on Jul 13, 2007, 07:51 AM
Most servers don't allow dual-clienting. Ingrediants get tedius to hunt on low rates and alot of people are lazy anyways.

And most server's don't allow botting but guess what :)