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Author Topic: [Renewal] Thanatos Boss Card Vs defense bypass %  (Read 2719 times)

Richard PlaysAlot and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline makoy

As far as high end build goes, I'll need that Thanatos Boss card for critical builds for piercing of defense of monsters.
Since renewal has too many items that can pierce defense, although it is just some percentages,
Assuming you can reach 100% or more, is it the same thing as Thanatos boss card?

Edit:
Planning on doing DDGx cuz I saw a custom item that can reach 20% defense pierce and other stuff that can add up to over 110%
« Last Edit: Mar 23, 2020, 04:51 pm by makoy »

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Offline Ara

Re: [Renewal] Thanatos Boss Card Vs defense bypass %
« Reply #1 on: Mar 23, 2020, 07:15 pm »
Thanatos card isn't only defense pierce, though. It's DEF pierce + it takes half of the DEF and adds it to your ATK, or something like that as well.

Offline Zereges

Re: [Renewal] Thanatos Boss Card Vs defense bypass %
« Reply #2 on: Mar 24, 2020, 04:38 am »
Thanatos card isn't only defense pierce, though. It's DEF pierce + it takes half of the DEF and adds it to your ATK, or something like that as well.
True, defense piercing is Samurai Scepter card. Thanatos card works in the same way as Ice Pick.

Also, I don't think you can go past 100% defense bypass. Most items that ignore portion of enemy's defense are weapons (mostly battleground/KVM weapons). If I didn't miss anything, the only other item providing such effect is Bone Plate (armor). There are also various effects (e.g. Naght blades), that makes you ignore target's defense for some time, but they don't add up 100%, but just set the defense of the target to zero (so if the target has negative defense, this effect is decreasing your damage).
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Offline makoy

Re: [Renewal] Thanatos Boss Card Vs defense bypass %
« Reply #3 on: Mar 25, 2020, 08:33 am »
True, defense piercing is Samurai Scepter card. Thanatos card works in the same way as Ice Pick.
I always thought that they are the same thing. Thanks for the clarification

Also, I don't think you can go past 100% defense bypass. Most items that ignore portion of enemy's defense are weapons (mostly battleground/KVM weapons). If I didn't miss anything, the only other item providing such effect is Bone Plate (armor). There are also various effects (e.g. Naght blades), that makes you ignore target's defense for some time, but they don't add up 100%, but just set the defense of the target to zero (so if the target has negative defense, this effect is decreasing your damage).
There are some custom items here that adds up to over 100% which is why i asked before the effort of getting it. but then again if piercing is different than Thanatos boss card then that still means that its better to have it.

Offline Zereges

Re: [Renewal] Thanatos Boss Card Vs defense bypass %
« Reply #4 on: Mar 25, 2020, 04:28 pm »
There are some custom items here that adds up to over 100% which is why i asked before the effort of getting it. but then again if piercing is different than Thanatos boss card then that still means that its better to have it.

Well, the defense ignoring and ice-pick effect (defense piercing) are actually two unrelated effects.
Defense ignoring simply ignores the portion of target's defense (both DEF and VITDEF). I have no idea (never tested, because it's not reachable) how 100%+ defense ignoring works (if it makes your target's defense negative, but I would assume so).
On the other hand, defense piercing adds (DEF + VITDEF - 100)% bonus damage. So if your target's defense and vitdef add up to 100, defense piercing has no effect.

Also, I never tested what happens when you mix these two :)
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Offline makoy

Re: [Renewal] Thanatos Boss Card Vs defense bypass %
« Reply #5 on: Mar 28, 2020, 03:49 am »
So basically,
Defense ignore means , well.. ignore/bypass the defense.
But Thanatos Boss adds up dmg if def > 100?

Also, I never tested what happens when you mix these two :)

so Ice pick + Spectre card should theoretically work if def is high due to defense ignore + pierce? /hmm


Ill give it a try and see how it works. Thanks again for the help

Offline Zereges

Re: [Renewal] Thanatos Boss Card Vs defense bypass %
« Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 04:07 am »
so Ice pick + Spectre card should theoretically work if def is high due to defense ignore + pierce? /hmm

Depends what is applied first, if it's Specter, then ice pick, you will do close to zero damage. If it's other way around, it would be fine.
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Online Richard PlaysAlot

Re: [Renewal] Thanatos Boss Card Vs defense bypass %
« Reply #7 on: Today at 06:41 am »
Imagine you deal 1000 dmg to a 0def target.
If the same target has instead 50 def (pre-re harddef), then your dmg ends up being 500.
Now, put on this new target also 50 vit, and hit it with icepick effect: your dmg will be 1000x(50+50)% = 1000 dmg (icepick multiplies the dmg by the sum of target's hard def + softdef and then applies it ignoring harddef, and maybe ignoring softdef too but that would influence minimally).
Then, if you hit a 50+50 def monster with 100% def bypass effect, you will deal, well, 1000 dmg.
If the monster has 90+90 def and you hit with 100% def bypass effect, your dmg will be still 1000.
But if a 90+90 def target you hit it with icepick effect, then your dmg is 1000x(90+90)%=1000x180%= 1800 dmg.

A 50+0 def monster: 500dmg normal hit (normally: 1000dmg)
A 50+300 def monster: 500dmg normal hit (soft def reduction its minimal, lets ignore it in this example) (normally:1000dmg)
A 50+0 def monster: 500dmg with ice pick (normally: 1000dmg)
A 50+300 def monster: 3500dmf with icepick (normally: 1000dmg)

Def bypass effect is good only when the target has very high hard def and very low softdef.
If the target has very low hard def and very high soft def (or low softdef, doesnt matter much) then you doesnt need def bypass effects or icepicks.
But if the target has good to high harddef and good to high soft def, then icepick really shines over everything else.

Now, speaking about renewal mechanics, i know they changed the defense numbers and im not familiar with those cos i dont play renewal, but with those numbers reaching even hundreds and hundreds in value, i imagine Icepick effect being crazy good.

Generally, a monster having 50 hard def means it cuts 50% of your dmg, so bypassing it entirely means you gain that 50% dmg (you dont gain +50% dmg, but you do effectively 2x dmg) mean while icepick effect can give you more: not only the missing portion of your dmg not reduced by def, but if the def+vitdef of the target exceeds 100, you also get a bonus (always speaking in %: 50+60 = 110, aka your 100% dmg plus 10% dmg -> 110% dmg).