Grand Cross dmg?

[Diiimn]

Based on ratemyserver's crusader skill description, it's "(100+40*SkillLV)%*(ATK+MATK)*holy_property_fix per hit".





The "ATK" part, based on irowiki.org "http://irowiki.org/wiki/ATK", it's= sATK * 2 + wATK + eATK + masteries, where sATK = floor(Base level/4 + STR + DEX/5 + LUK/3).


The "MATK part also based on irowiki.org "http://irowiki.org/wiki/Stats#MATK"= Minimum-> (statusMATK + wMATK + eMATK - (wMATK*0.1*WpnLvl)) * % matk increase, where statusMATK = Int + [Int/2] + [Dex/5] + [Luk/3] + [BLvl/4]





Based on the "ATK*2" & "statusMATK" equations, I see it as STR should increase Grand Cross Damage>INT. But it turns out the other way round, any1 know why?

[Triper]

You're checking the Renewal formula of atk and matk at renewal's irowiki and asking stuff about Pre-Renewal and that makes 0 sense.

Renewal's atk consists in atk from gear, usually called eATK, and atk from status, usually called sATK and they're calculated individually.
Pre-Renewal no, gears and status add to the final result.

Also, it's the other way around because MATK > ATK in numbers. It's way easier to get 700 MATK instead of 700 ATK.

[Diiimn]

You're checking the Renewal formula of atk and matk at renewal's irowiki and asking stuff about Pre-Renewal and that makes 0 sense.

Renewal's atk consists in atk from gear, usually called eATK, and atk from status, usually called sATK and they're calculated individually.
Pre-Renewal no, gears and status add to the final result.

...

Which formula is pre renewal, the Grand Cross formula?

eAtk is like the support buffs to increase atk, like bless, impositio manus, or gloria. So you mean pre renewal bless or impositio manus doesn't increase dmg?

Also, it's the other way around because MATK > ATK in numbers. It's way easier to get 700 MATK instead of 700 ATK.

Can you give an example calculation to show that? Ty.

[Relics]

If you want the prerenewal mechanics.. use the prerenewal irowiki http://irowiki.org/oldwiki

eAtk is like the support buffs to increase atk, like bless, impositio manus, or gloria. So you mean pre renewal bless or impositio manus doesn't increase dmg?

In prenewal they add damage, but in a different way compared to renewal.
for example bless adds to your +STR, and that adds to your atk. http://irowiki.org/oldwiki/ATK#ATK
The way str is added to atk in prerenewal could be the same for renewal, but the formula addresses it differently.. but in the end it could be the same thing

[Diiimn]

If you want the prerenewal mechanics.. use the prerenewal irowiki http://irowiki.org/oldwiki
In prenewal they add damage, but in a different way compared to renewal.
for example bless adds to your +STR, and that adds to your atk. http://irowiki.org/oldwiki/ATK#ATK
The way str is added to atk in prerenewal could be the same for renewal, but the formula addresses it differently.. but in the end it could be the same thing

So pre renewal atk= "Weapon DMG + STR / DEX / LUK", meaning if dex and luk is increased, the lower the dmg?

[Triper]

Which formula is pre renewal, the Grand Cross formula?

Same formula as renewal => (100+40*SkillLV)%*(ATK+MATK)*holy_property_fix per hit

Can you give an example calculation to show that? Ty.

You don't even need an example calculation.
Get a Crusader 89/50, add 90 base STR and 90 base INT and you end with atk 179 atk and 265-457 matk.
Even if you add something like a weapon that gives 100 atk and zipper cards you can't beat that max matk.
PS - Of course that with God Items like Mjolnir and Megs it's a different story...

So pre renewal atk= "Weapon DMG + STR / DEX / LUK", meaning if dex and luk is increased, the lower the dmg?

Pre-Renewal atk for non-bow users is not exactly that but sorta.
The formula is something like this STR + (STR/10)^2 + (DEX/5) + (LUK/5) + GearATK + BuffATK[like imposito] + UpgradeBonus.
Just trade the STR for DEX and the DEX for STR if you want to make it for bow users.

[Diiimn]

You're checking the Renewal formula of atk and matk at renewal's irowiki and asking stuff about Pre-Renewal and that makes 0 sense.

...

Same formula as renewal => (100+40*SkillLV)%*(ATK+MATK)*holy_property_fix per hit

Then why you said I was asking pre- renewal stuff using renewal's formula?

Renewal's atk consists in atk from gear, usually called eATK, and atk from status, usually called sATK and they're calculated individually.
Pre-Renewal no, gears and status add to the final result.

eAtk, according to irowiki above is like the support buffs to increase atk, like bless, impositio manus, or gloria. So you mean pre renewal bless or impositio manus doesn't increase dmg?

You don't even need an example calculation.
Get a Crusader 89/50, add 90 base STR and 90 base INT and you end with atk 179 atk and 265-457 matk.

I know, I already tested it on ratemyserver test server. I'd like an explanation from the formula and example. Ty



Btw, according to irowiki's FLEE formula, http://irowiki.org/wiki/FLEE flee= Skill Bonus + 100 + [Level + AGI + Item Bonus] * [1 - ((Mobs -2) * 0.1)], so if I'm lv 99 crusader and 99 agi, my flee= 0+100+(198)*(1.1)= 317.8 flee. That doesn't look right, even the doddler's calculator calculates my flee to be around 198 flee. Any1 know how to get to 198 flee?

[Relics]

For the matk vs atk thing .. according to irowiki pre:

http://irowiki.org/oldwiki/Matk#MATK
http://irowiki.org/oldwiki/File:Matkgraph.png

Matk
The Maximum MATK grows by Int+(Int/5)^2. The Minimum MATK grows by Int+(Int/7)^2

Compare that to ATK growth (triper already gave the formula, but you can find it in the link below)
http://irowiki.org/oldwiki/Attacks
Point 7 at calculate baseATK
Atk
BaseATK for melee weapons is STR + [STR/10]^2 + [DEX/5] + [LUK/5] + UpgradeBonus + ImpositioManus + ATKCards.

An example case 100 INT vs 100 STR
at 100 INT...:
Min MATK: ~300
Max MATK: ~500
Average of 400 matk

at 100 STR..: (assuming for this case 1 dex 1 luk)
100+ [100/10]^2 + [1/5] + [1/5] + 0 + 0 + 0 = 200.4 ATK (rounded to 200)

What if I had 100 STR 100 Dex 1 LUK, would that beat 100 INT? ... still ungeared

100+ [100/10]^2 + [100/5] + [1/5] + 0 + 0 + 0 = 220.2 ATK  (rounded to 220)

This isn't even including gear, but as you know.. most +matk gear increases matk by % (in prerenewal), like orlean gloves and stuff, instead of flat matk. Depending on your > int, then obviously +% > +flat amount of matk.

[Triper]

Then why you said I was asking pre- renewal stuff using renewal's formula?

You're checking the Renewal formula of atk and matk at renewal's irowiki

Grand Cross formula => (100+40*SkillLV)%*(ATK+MATK)*holy_property_fix per hit

What have one thing to do with the other??

About the eAtk and flee... does us first a favour answer us, the people trying to help you, since you can't see that I'm trying to get that answer for ages and still can't get it. Is this for a Renewal or Pre-Renewal server?

You just mix pre-renewal mechanics from RENEWAL's IROWIKI with info from a PRE-RENEWAL CALC, that donesn't make sense and actually makes me to suggest something ;3

[Diiimn]

?

I've been asking mainly on Renewal mechanics, I only asked about pre- renewal cause you said in the 2nd post that I mixed renewal and pre- renewal mechanics. I was using the renewal irowiki for my questions, so what do you think I was asking about

Where did I mix pre- renewal mechanics at all in my first post and doddler's calculator http://rode.doddlercon.com/db/calc/ is pre-renewal, I didn't think his calculator would be that outdated?

[Triper]

I see it as STR should increase Grand Cross Damage>INT => pre-renewal mechanics

Based on the "ATK*2" & "statusMATK" => status of ATK ignored and took in consideration just ATK

This two statments is point one because atk now is divided in two parts as I said before - atk from gears and atk from status and you ignored that fact and just not only STR boosts atk and the same for INT.

doddler's calculator http://rode.doddlercon.com/db/calc/ is pre-renewal, I didn't think his calculator would be that outdated?

Point two was you making reference to doodler's calc, something a bit outdated even for pre-renewal.
Also, how can something that has mechanics changed still work for something "new"? It's the same as saying that I can drink pepsi and coke but they won't be never the same.
At the moment there isn't any renewal calc at 100% mostly because formulas are in constant chance but some old stuff are still the same from the begin of renewal like status and that can be tested here easy http://calcxre.wushuang.ws/

[Diiimn]

I see it as STR should increase Grand Cross Damage>INT => pre-renewal mechanics

Based on the "ATK*2" & "statusMATK" => status of ATK ignored and took in consideration just ATK

I wasn't referring to the pre- renewal mechanic's formula.

I was referring to the ATK*2 in the total ATK= sATK * 2 + wATK + eATK + masteries



Any1 can show an example to calculate ATK and MATK?

Also, according to irowiki's FLEE formula, http://irowiki.org/wiki/FLEE flee= Skill Bonus + 100 + [Level + AGI + Item Bonus] * [1 - ((Mobs -2) * 0.1)], so if I'm lv 99 crusader and 99 agi, my flee= 0+100+(198)*(1.1)= 317.8 flee. I've tested in ratemyserver test server, a crusader lv 99 agi 99, flee= 199. Any1 know what's wrong?

[Relics]

Flee is determined by (Level + AGI).

99 + 99 = ~ 198

I've no idea why that +100 is there, it should just be 0+(99+99+0)
the discussion page indicates:
Flee Penalty

Um, The wiki states that flee is penalized by 10% for each monster above one, but I thought it was common knowledge that you only receive a penalty for more than two monsters. This is also shown on the jRO Common Wiki: http://common.ragna.info/index.php?%A5%B9%A5%C6%A1%BC%A5%BF%A5%B9#z3cfb32f .

So only use the mob penalty part ((x-2)*0.01) if there > 2 mobs

[Diiimn]

Where is it on the jRO Common wiki.

Any1 can show an example for calculating renewal ATK and MATK? Ty