Combating Expert Champions as LK

[freshmasa]

(I did use search, and no topics like there were around, so I just posted. Will remove if there is already a topic like this)

I've been recently testing builds and such on myRO and using Calcs(lolnub) and I've had decent sucess comming up with builds I want to try on a normal server. While testing I ran into a complete roadblock when it comes to skilled TSS/PPS Champions. Now just to clarify, I do pretty well when it comes to Hide Dodging things. I can avoid most Asuras, and some Soul Destroyers that come without warning. I claim to 'main' LK, but I still have a lot to learn so keep this in consideration.

I usually approach Champions with the assumption that they are there to Asura me. Once sure that they are not there to Asura, I try the usual tactics a swordsman would use against Monk/Champions. Bash Stunning, and Hide Dodging TSS. It worked against serveral, until I ran into one champion. I have never seen such speed and skill when it came to switching and using PPS in combination with TSS. When it becomes appearnt to me that these champions are pure PVP, I try my tactic of hijacking their Pneuma. And spear booming and BBing when they approach to PPS, and Hide Dodging the TSS. However said champions are able to stack PPS, and TSS while I'm sill within range completely knocking me out of hide, and causing some pretty serious damage. On average I win 3/10 battles against said champions.(Usually with lucky bash stuns...) Despite constant swapping between Brocca and Combat Knife to reduce damage. Gear is the usual fully equipped PVP LK, Brocca, CK, Hunting Spear, Superior Tidal+Anti-Sniping Wool. Build is Bowling Bash/Spiral Pierce Hybrid. Any advice? Or should I just use a Pally instead...

[Sarin]

My word of advice is, keep your distance. As you might noticed....LK isn't a quick killing character. I'd say, try attrition. Stay at max range, hidedodge any TSS, and don't get in way on Asura or PPS. He might have three times your sp, but if you play it right, he'll burn them much faster than you, and with Fury on, he won't regenerate them. Wear him down, wait for your time, and when he can't sustain such fight anymore...

[freshmasa]

What about Body Relocate? Keeping my distance against something that isn't a champ isn't that hard, but when its the most mobile class in the game, which can also slow me down, what should I do? Ordinarily I'd hide when champs Body relocate over to me, then spear stab when they go to ruwatch. But by then the damage is already done, and they've gotten a few PPS off. They have heal. I don't. And most champs have a near endless SP pool by using Sphere Absorb. And they can easily outrun a mounted LK that is Decrease Agi'd. I've tried Spear Booming and Spiraling while I have them on the run, but that works even less than Bash Stunning+Bowling Bash, since they throw up Pneuma faster than I can keep the pressure on them. I'll try some Pure builds, see where that gets me.

I haven't tried Head Crush or Joint Beat extensively. Maybe using those would help? I know Joint Beat can reduce ASPD severly, which would DEFINITELY help with the PPS. Can the status effects caused by Joint Beat be Green Potted away?

[Sarin]

There are a ways...

Champ and vit doesn't really go well together. 70 tops I'd say, for a dedicated one. Stun, mute, these should work. Tho, if you say they use green pots, mute might not be viable option...
Joint beat stuff don't go away by potting, but that's slow...when it comes down to beating each other at melee, you are gonna need fast damage. That is giving me an idea...ever tried, instead of just using shield and spear, go 2H swords for that? In long term, parry, while tricky, offers more protection that thara against physical attacks.

[fluidin]

alright, i'm not a pro at LK, i don't even play one other than a statuser/BB-er/tank for woe.

i can try and offer a few suggestions though.

for closing range when u need it, charge attack.
for not getting knockbacked, perhaps u might wanna hunt anodynes. not sure bout strong shield, 20% extra dmg kinda hurts..

like sarin said, 2h parrying could work very well against champs. charge in and BB away.

overall, it's difficult to win a well-played champ unless you're tons better ;x

[blackgh05t]

Exploit your ability to stun him.  Time to make a stun weapon!

Or reroll.

[fluidin]

Note that there are 90-100 vit champs, u just need BG/great gear for that. not even godlies



an iro-wikian posted this up, it 1shots 100vits LKs on cran/beret/immune/variants

[Makenshi]

Not much in ways of advice but something to try out. I would imagine that charge attack and spear boomerang to be your best friends. As others have mentioned, the best tactic is probably to immobilize them. Charge and spear are probably the easiest way to do so since they cost relatively low sp and low delay. Something that might be worth trying is to wallhug so that pps becomes more predictable. Champs use them all day, so they are probably much better at predicting your final landing position than you are at it. Parry does go a long way towards reducing the damage, but I think its most useful feature is to get rid of those pesky pps knock back and knock out of hide effects. That being said, some type of characters are simply more effective against a certain other ones. Keep at it, and I'm sure one day you'll find something you're comfortable with to combat these weak points in your current tactics

[yawnzz]

Exploit your ability to stun him.  Time to make a stun weapon!

Or reroll.

I don't think TSS champs roll much vit, seeing as how they need str agi and dex to doitrite..... So yeah, what he said. Switch to a stun weapon when you're bashing for greater chance of stunning.

[fluidin]

doesnt TS ever meet expert pvp champs who aren't afraid to asura though?

[freshmasa]

There is really nothing one can do when you crunch those kinds of numbers. Sure you could Spear Stab, or simply try to interrupt the Asura. But a cast time with gear like that would be almost non-existant, and knocking back could be remedied by a Strong Shield. Isn't much you can honestly do but use a Ghostring and/or a Deviling against Asuras like that. Or Frenzy.

[mahawirasd]

i'm no expert, but other than making a curse-stun-silence-blind main gauche perhaps you could try spear booming with that coma axe?

oh and i love parrying... 50% chance to block most attacks... hax...


-w-

[Sarin]

i'm no expert, but other than making a curse-stun-silence-blind main gauche perhaps you could try spear booming with that coma axe?

I wonder how you want to do SPEAR boomerang with AXE....

[yawnzz]

i'm no expert, but other than making a curse-stun-silence-blind main gauche perhaps you could try spear booming with that coma axe?

I wonder how you want to do SPEAR boomerang with AXE....

i'm no expert

That was pretty mean.

[fluidin]

i think even if you're no expert that's common sense. although i think maha just made a honest mistake, it happens to everyone.

or maybe he meant using spear boom AND also using coma axe. (edge is the better choice tho)