Suggestions for the Forum

[LemonCrosswalk]

I think yC gave up reading posts since they are long and disagreed with how she thought anyway. Why should she care about the forums working? There are no ad income. In fact, if you ignore the forums a lot of the time anyway, and hate everyone that posts more than 20 times why do you HAVE it?

Also, I think yC needs to be shown what a real troll is. And no, that isn't a call to arms. I would look for an example but it seems like a waste of time anyway since it will just be ignored.

[Yukino]

^ LemonCrosswalk has spoken my mind, especially the first paragraph. This is what I mean by being disregarded. After just a few times, nothing will be taken seriously. The majority of the community is complaining--there must be something wrong with the forum. We do not complain because we like to (most of the time); we complain because we feel something is lacking and needs to be changed (precisely now we are spending all this time to try and convince you). Regardless of how long it would take to implement changes, at least consider them and not throw them all away. If you want all the veterans to leave, you would have nobody else to help answer people's questions for all the times you or the other staff members couldn't/didn't.

Furthermore, there is more than one person to consider for a new moderator like Aurora said. DarkDevine just entered his application as well. It's because we want to help the forum that people are applying (people like me cannot as we are server owners (thanks to everyone who supported me to be one and my points stated here/each other's points here) though we do want to help in a way that we can).

The forum is important. If it is not important, it would not be such a noticeable link right on each page of the RMS website. It's right next to the log off button. If something is made, it should be made and maintained wholeheartedly. Don't just run away from problems--solve them. We're not running off to eAthena completely because we feel that this forum has potential (and still has a chance for improvement). Why are you telling us to run off when we're trying so hard to prove our points to you? To help you? It's as if you, as many people have stated, no longer cares about this forum. No longer cares for the community. It's like saying to players who want good changes to a server, "Go to another server for all I care. My server is good enough without all of you people here." You should have learned from all the drama posted here in the past regarding staff members. The staff members mentioned mainly fail because they are corrupted or that they do not care for the community enough. You're casting all of us away. Thank you for your time.

[yC]

Well, like I said I am not going to be watching the forum 24/7 so good luck calling me out on instant replies.  I am not going to stress myself like that, who wants to sit here wait for replies.  In fact, I am going back to my old days of checking suggestion, support, report section once or twice a day whenever possible.

List of potential moderators/administrators:

• Gorthex 4 admin
• Kyomi
• Lucian
• Yusifer
• Myself

It's not many, but it's enough.

+ Yukino and DarkDevine.

First, who is Gorthex 4 admin?

Second, I like how a suggest topic can turn into a staff team pick by various people.  May I suggest you this way --> http://www.simplemachines.org/  create your own forum and hire your own people.  

Now, I can't even find an application from certain people in the list.  Please apply and be active in the forum if you want to be considered.  Banned user is not going to be considered.

I saw DarkDevine posted one today but seeing he is going to a staff of a coming up server (in less than a month), the qualification is in doubt.

Yusifer is gone.

Aurora, we might have to look at your old account for history.

I like how I am given a list to pick, very convenience.  So again, "admin cannot disagree with the people"?  I think not.  I am not going to hire staff at this moment just because I am given a list.  There isn't much selection after removing the no app / no show / going to be gm, picking someone to be staff because of a suggestion is ridiculous.  Like I said, if you want more staff that means there is a problem in the forum and new staff isn't going to solve it right away.

There is much consideration and discussion needed (privately) to hire new staff.  There is also requirements listed in the hiring topic.  Picking people hastily because staff is said to be needed isn't going to work.  It might even be dangerous if we are not being careful and picked someone with a bad intention.  Now you guys made a big deal on new staff, it is not helping at all.  It actually slows the progress because under the assumption that the staff picking is in process potential candidates might act differently than usual affecting our observation.

A troll, i'll use the definition from wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29), in short i'll just quote this:

"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2] In addition to the offending poster, the noun "troll" can also refer to the provocative message itself, as in that was an excellent troll you posted. "

That is exactly what happened to certain topics in this forum.  Piles of spam from different people in a very short amount of time.  Come to think of it, oh it happens they share the similar signature by coincidence.  Don't ask me for an example Lemon, I am pretty sure I saw you on the scene almost first or second.  Would you like to stop the 'troll'?

Not saying you were doing "it" there, but I am pretty sure you saw it happened.  Since you were there at least in this case >> http://img688.imageshack.us/i/exampleqz.jpg/  I can remember i was pretty busy deleting the amount of spam posted in that topic in order to drive it off-topic and stop any serious discussion.  

Actually, I would like to ask about the following while Lemon is here.  Just browsing a little around here I can find plenty of stuff that can be defined as troll:

http://www.ratemyserver.net/forum/index.php/topic,14811.msg106307.html#msg106307
http://www.ratemyserver.net/forum/index.php/topic,15381.msg111245.html#msg111245
http://www.ratemyserver.net/forum/index.php/topic,14987.msg107614.html#msg107614
http://www.ratemyserver.net/forum/index.php/topic,14676.msg105724.html#msg105724

http://www.ratemyserver.net/forum/index.php/topic,15100.msg108433.html#msg108433
http://www.ratemyserver.net/forum/index.php/topic,14829.msg106479.html#msg106479
http://www.ratemyserver.net/forum/index.php/topic,14820.msg106318.html#msg106318

http://www.ratemyserver.net/forum/index.php/topic,15536.msg112198.html#msg112198
http://www.ratemyserver.net/forum/index.php/topic,14987.msg107621.html#msg107621

If the forum is going to be full of these kind of posts that serve no purpose but a waste of time and space, I don't think I can work on the forum anymore.  It's not just Lemon, you can see others are doing it too.  Many of them were deleted but still many of them are here.  Yukino what do you think about this, would you like to see these if you are hired?  My minimum goal is at least have a forum free from these 4chan invasion.  Otherwise no point running this forum because no one want to see these waste of time non-sense.  

[Kiyoshiro]

Oh dear...it's like this again. People are asking for something that obviously isn't going to happen...I've seen this kind of event numerous times already.

Well, anyway...

who wants to sit here wait for replies. Lol, that's something I'm doing. I seriously have way too much free time at the moment...sigh.

First, who is Gorthex 4 admin? <--If I crossed that out, does this make sense now? >_>

So again, "admin cannot disagree with the people"?  I think not. That is NOT what anyone is saying here. Who made you think that?

Like I said, if you want more staff that means there is a problem in the forum and new staff isn't going to solve it right away. New staff may not solve problems right away but it will in the long run. Otherwise, the current staff needs to find more time to moderate this forum. If life is going to screw you over in the long run, I'd suggest not having to work online for free in some RO site or server. -_-

[DarkDevine]

I am staff of the ROorg team, but 1st: ROorg won't be released until December, at least it won't be released in August 2010 and 2nd: I am the Web-Developer for ROorg, nothing more, I don't GM/Administrate there.

[LemonCrosswalk]

Sarcasm =/= Trolling

I'm not going to make excuses for my posts. I didn't act like this when I joined. I was ignored and generally insulted by yC. The Moderation was horrible. In fact, it was like how it is right now except with JJJ (which isn't a good thing). I would explain my behavior, but if I typed anything longer than a few lines I doubt it would be FULLY read. The fact is, if the forum was under BETTER control, I wouldn't have made 90% of those comments. Ironically enough I work in Public Relations. It's my job to fix things like this, but I never saw the point of even offering after the first time I did since anything said falls upon deaf ears.

[Green]

THE LIST OF PEOPLE'S NAME WERE A LIST OF SUGGESTIONS.

Not a "Here, you must pick from these people".
You said there's no one to choose for staff.
We gave you a list of people we THINK would make decent staff, to show you that there ARE people.
Suggestions, ffs.

[LemonCrosswalk]

*~*A message from Descent*~*

People. yC's not going to change. It's quite evident what she wants...an empty forum. If that's what she wants, she can have it.


You never cared about the forum OR the community, yC. Please just come out and say it. You would ban individuals solely on the fact that you didn't like what they said. You don't pay attention to the forums. You don't care that you will pass judgment on somebody and then ignore what happens after the fact.


Let's start with the thread where you banned Shinn, myself, Gorthex. Did you know that in that same thread, MKR openly insulted JMan's integrity? Are you aware that Abversen tried to pick a fight with a defenseless GorthexTiger? How is that fair? You want to remove all "unfriendly" members, but they're only "unfriendly" if you see it happen?


I've said it once, and I'll say it again. Forums freeze moments in time. The "I didn't see it happen" excuse is a completely invalid argument. A couple of mouseclicks and you're right at the moment when things were posted on the forums. And while we're at it, if you want to continue to use "I didn't see it happen", since you're such a fan of using real life situations to justify internet actions...


Two men are walking on Queen Street in Toronto. Man A shoots Man B. Witness A sees it and runs to a nearby police officer to report what just happened. Does the officer say "Sorry ma'am, I didn't see it" and go about his day? No. They begin investigating immediately.


If you're not going to pay attention to the forums as you so clearly have stated, then you NEED somebody who can. There are people practically throwing themselves at you because they want to help. Not because they want the power. Not because they want to be an RMS Mod. They want to help. And to be quite honest, you should be thankful that there are still people that want to help, because these users could clearly take your advice and "leave if they don't like it".


If you only care about what makes you money, then hire somebody who cares about the community that your site currently possesses. Without them and word of mouth, your site would be nothing, and even you know that.

~*~End of a message from Descent~*~

[yC]

Michy has been deleted.  I certainly don't need someone that sign up to the forum just to add fuel to our conversation.  It serve no value to us at all.  We know where Michy is from and who he is speaking for.  

Lemon, yes I too notice those that are now posting non-sense used to be good people.  I wish it never turned this way, and I wish it could go back to the way it was.  Hmm I ignored you?  Sorry but I really ignored a lot of people, I don't remember how many times I mention I am not good with names.  Not sure about the insult part, be more specific and I'll see if I recall it.  I might used to be that way I don't deny I have been here for too long and changed too many times.  Now I just afraid to post too much because of the word twisting and the unwanted attention I get for everything I do.  

On the moderation part, yes it is horrible because we all have a life.  Nobody can be here to watch the forum all day as I said.  I do miss JJJ, he was good in deleting the spam that we see now after he is gone.  JJJ actually has a lot of time to "fight" the spam and keep the forum in line so I can let him take control.   That was at least one reason I am not willing to let him go even under huge pressure.  I still think JJJ was a good staff member over the whole cross he was here.  If people know how much time he put into this forum to keep it in line.  Not even Riot, me, Pow (or those that was previously global mod) have that much dedication.

Can I get an opinion on how the staff should deal with the spam/troll/non-sense?  I delete them everyday and they keep coming.  Warning someone that does it while someone got away on another because I don't have eyes for every topics = get called for bad moderation.  So I ended up just delete as I see them, save the warning in most cases.  Now it become the norms and have no way to put a stop to that.  If there is a robot that will take care of them good, there isn't one so far.  I am not exactly sure any potential candidate is willing to take that kind of robot job.  You'll feel you are not getting anywhere after a while.

How would you feel if you are banned for spamming that kind of thing over and over is one matter.  How would the staff feel if we delete the same thing over and over is another matter.  Any answer?  No perfect solution?  I can't think of any other than the forum need to close.

I am not saying I am not going to hire new staff.  I will and I am always looking at potential candidates.  Don't know why Michy have to twist my words in a way that make it sound like I am not hiring anybody forever.  That is completely false.  I just rather keep the process private, ask my existing staff opinion etc.  They are here more than I am here, they should know who is suitable for a staff position better than me.  I wouldn't be the only voice on picking a new staff.  We have to pick someone that we all feel fine to work together.


Posted on: Jul 10, 2010, 09:24 pmLemon I think you mean Descent?  It wasn't a Decent message ...

I have told him many times already.  If the person didn't report to the police, the police might not see it.  In this forum's case, the report board has many solved cases everyday.  Those that didn't get reported might not be dealt with.  Simple as that.

[Brookdale]

Hmm, I've been reading this thread because, well frankly, it's like when you're in the passenger seat and you see a terrible car accident and you turn almost completely around so you can see if anyone's gotten hurt, then you tell the driver how ridiculously messed up the car looks. (I know I'm not the only person here that does this >.> )
Anyhow, like Descent says, yC doesn't plan on changing, and it's not really the place of the community to demand she does so.
I think if everyone's this unhappy they should get on board with the server rating 2.0 project I've been hearing about.

However, I must say this yC: I never really knew who you were until you called my last admin an attention whore. Not to say she wasn't. But I do think this whole "unfriendly" community thing has spawned up because of people like that. If you want to get rid of dramas, get rid of the drama whores. Trolls live off the stuff. You're trying fan the smoke away with a dishrag when you should skip that part and blast the crap out of the fire.

It also seems to me like a lot of stuff happens because of cultural difference anyhow. I dunno about you, but I'm from Chicago and everyone there is pretty easygoing when it comes to sarcasm and whatnot. I think depending on where people are from, their personalities and senses of humor are different. Besides, this is the internet. Just because the words people are saying come out sounding mean or hurtful doesn't mean they are. I think everyone needs to chillax, stop being on the offensive and defensive and remember that this forum isn't about the admin, it's about the servers.... that being said, it's hard for servers to be talked about when their admins are getting banned but - c'est la vie, no?

So, I guess that's my two cents.

tl;dr version : Ban Attention Whores First
If I get banned, tell my mom I love her! T_T

[kyonashi]

ive also been reading this and from what Ive seen Ive been talking to michy and gorthex the whole time i didn't let that get in the way of my judgment upon this situation and from this topic alone all the non sense you've been spewing seems to make me believe that you would like to run RMS in a dictator ship kind of way, Your thoughts are that these people's suggestions is a re-vault but actually a way to fix the errors that Ive come across while reading your post. I had not chosen sides before i got to the end and the end was you deleting a forum member over the fact that he was pointing out facts about you banning or deleting people for the main purpose of they do things you just dont like and with no reason till like 10 minutes after banning/deleting some one you have information, well if this is how RMS runs their forums im actually pretty glade RMS 2.0 is coming thank you for this eye opener and now that ive given you a professional review on how you handled your issue's i think you owe the people you've given unfair judgment to an apology

PS. if this is how it's going to be on a daily basis, I'd rather go play limitro

~Kyo  

[Fantaxy]

Yc seriously.

I and all of the people here ,especially Descent, Have spoken they're minds.
WHY are they banned and the REAL trolls and flame-bait aren't?
YOU keep banning the regs and the "supposedly trolls" but you aren't banning the real thing.
You ban those who have 100++ posts THAT contributed and you don't ban the trolls with 50+ posts?
And what lemon said is true sarcasm=/=troll.

Why are most members of us becoming lazy-bums and not helping and going "I r Dunno" and sarcasm stuffs?
Why should we care Why should we respect If you yourself doesn't even care about the forums anymore.

You have been ignoring most posts simply because you didn't agree with they're idea.
You have not even gave us the reason you banned the forum regs.


And for the love of ****.
Look at your supposedly kawaii-desu new members have trolled countless times.
And while defending ourselves we get a -karma?
So much for a community.

[Green]

May I suggest you this way --> http://www.simplemachines.org/  create your own forum and hire your own people.

We already have. Admined by myself, Gorthex and my boyfriend.
It is still in development (I need to work on the forum theme, for instance. I have epic ideas for it), and it is temporarily hosted via Gorthex's ChosenRO domain, but this will change when it gets fully off the ground.
Also, ignore the name. Ragnalolk will be changed. I just amuse myself too much, and find myself far too witty.

Not only will it feature the forums you see, but it'll also contain a full review site and library, lovingly made by my boyfriend.
It's intended to become a full resource and review site, much more than RMS.

SO. It is currently a work in progress, but people are welcome to come and chat/suggest things (Please suggest things. I have lots of epic ideas, but would like others ideas, regarding any part of it, even in the future. =) ).

So, bare with us for a while, but you are all welcome, no matter of your yC-troll-metre.

[advertisement]


TLDR;
We accepted yC's multiple challanges. (Go make your own, I'm glad you're not admin Green, I'm glad you're not eA admin Gorthex, here's a site go make your own).
Forum is forun here: [advertisement]
Temp domain and site name.
Work in progress (ignore the theme)
Will become a full review and database site in time.
Leave us suggestions.

[yC]

Green this is not a forum where you can advertise another database site or voting site or what not either in the forum or in pm / shout box.  You should have know the rules since you linked to the global rules multiple times.  I hope you know otherwise I will have to warn you.

[kyonashi]

Lol baka -.- seems like its about time for the start up of a new RMS to begin