Lock All Future "omg rms dey stolez mai xcluzivz!!1!" threads

[yC]

Doesn't mean the person taking them is in the right.  Thus discussion is inevitable, why deny them?  By locking/deleting those topic in the future, is that mean we as a forum are acknowledging the behavior?  

It's as simple as you are free to steal and the artist are free to report about them.  Why you allow one and not the other?  I don't mind providing them a place and let them talk.  It's not so different from a player come with proof telling xxx server is corrupt.  There is no need to lock all topic of one kind because they tend to get caught into flame. The solution could be stop flaming (in) them and be a good listener?  That also creates a friendly environment.  Nobody tell you to start flaming like no tomorrow.

The thing I don't want to see is:  Today we have to lock all "stolen art" topic because they always cause flaming etc.  Tomorrow we might have to lock all "report gm corruption" topic because they are easily caught into flame as well.  Then later we have to lock all "insert topic here" for the same reason.  The list can go on and on until nothing is left for discussion because you put out one fire another one pops up.  

"all threads that are about someone using files without permission be locked and/or deleted from this point forth" isn't a solution.  It's a jump to conclusion.

Yes, they need to add some kind of protection but before that .. what can they do.

[jTynne]

Doesn't mean the person taking them is in the right.  Thus discussion is inevitable, why deny them?  By locking/deleting those topic in the future, is that mean we as a forum are acknowledging the behavior?  

It's as simple as you are free to steal and the artist are free to report about them.  Why you allow one and not the other?  I don't mind providing them a place and let them talk.  It's not so different from a player come with proof telling xxx server is corrupt.  There is no need to lock all topic of one kind because they tend to get caught into flame. The solution could be stop flaming (in) them and be a good listener?  That also creates a friendly environment.  Nobody tell you to start flaming like no tomorrow.

The thing I don't want to see is:  Today we have to lock all "stolen art" topic because they always cause flaming etc.  Tomorrow we might have to lock all "report gm corruption" topic because they are easily caught into flame as well.  Then later we have to lock all "insert topic here" for the same reason.  The list can go on and on until nothing is left for discussion because you put out one fire another one pops up.  

"all threads that are about someone using files without permission be locked and/or deleted from this point forth" isn't a solution.  It's a jump to conclusion.

Yes, they need to add some kind of protection but before that .. what can they do.

Sorry, this reminded me of the argument a lot of hicks from the south use in regard to gay marriage, "What's next, people are going to start marrying their lawn mower?!".

I see where your concern is, yC, and I see where Zone's is as well, however, the point I am gathering from his suggestion is; This isn't RO-Enhance.

[Descent]

Yes, they need to add some kind of protection but before that .. what can they do.

They can add the protection that would keep their exclusive items safe.

And while we're at it, don't we always tell users that we are not the RO Police...?

[Zone]

yC, don't you understand?
When it gets out on the internet, and you put it there, you GIVE it out.
There is no such thing as stealing something that is FREE.
Claiming authorship is something else, but if you suggest I come and b**** about every person who uses something they didn't ask for, then you are more of an idiot than I thought before.

Every thing in RO private servers are being used without permission from Gravity.
Also, it isn't exclusive since Gravity owns all fan art, the author then has no ownership.
Those who then use it are using the files without permission from gravity.
But wait! Isn't that what all private servers are doing anyways?

People who complain about this s*** are children, and they shouldn't be on the internet. They should be back in kindergarten where they belong.

Yes, they need to add some kind of protection but before that .. what can they do.

They can add the protection that would keep their exclusive items safe.

And while we're at it, don't we always tell users that we are not the RO Police...?

already said, obviously people are too retarded to accept that suggestion and cry over it regardless.
This is what makes RMS a crappy site. People who complain about problems THEY CREATE!

That's like leaving your wallet on a table, walking away, and when you come back you are missing the $40 you were going to pay for your brunch with.
It's your fault for putting it out in the open.

[LiteX]

Well for once, I agree with Zone.  I've been saying the exact same thing for the last 3 years everytime I hear complaints of people talking about how their "exclusives" end up on another server.  The only way around this would be some kinda of protection, which they didnt implement, so they should've expected this from the start.

Protection can be easly hacked,

"yC, don't you understand?
When it gets out on the internet, and you put it there, you GIVE it out.
There is no such thing as stealing something that is FREE.Claiming authorship is something else, but if you suggest I come and b**** about every person who uses something they didn't ask for, then you are more of an idiot than I thought before."

Not exactly, if some online game company puts a game and somebody rips their sprites and starts making money off it, then it's stealing.


"Every thing in RO private servers are being used without permission from Gravity.
Also, it isn't exclusive since Gravity owns all fan art, the author then has no ownership.
Those who then use it are using the files without permission from gravity.
But wait! Isn't that what all private servers are doing anyways?"

Not exactly, considering that eA is different from AEGIS and the sprite usage can possibly qualify as "fan game", Gravity can proberly shut most Pservers down due to their sprite usage

[Descent]

Protection can be easly hacked,

Please explain how, since you seem to think it's so easy.

[jTynne]

Just thought I'd take a moment to address this.

Protection can be easly hacked,

Not exactly, if some online game company puts a game and somebody rips their sprites and starts making money off it, then it's stealing.

Not exactly, considering that eA is different from AEGIS and the sprite usage can possibly qualify as "fan game", Gravity can proberly shut most Pservers down due to their sprite usage

First of all, if you encrypt your GRF archive's contents and edit your client to be able to read the encrypted content, that's nearly impossible to "crack" unless you're given the hash/encryption key. If you can do this, post an example. Go steal the palettes from FeelRO, which are encrypted, and decrypt them for us since it's "so easy".

Second, if someone takes sprites from an online game and claims them as their own, that is called copyright infringement, unless of course the game company manufacturing the content didn't bother copyrighting their content, which in that case, GG for being idiots @ the game company.

Finally, Gravity's previous lawsuits/claims against eAthena-based (and some AEGIS-based) servers hasn't been for sprite usage; It's been for clientEXE modification, which is a direct violation of their terms of service agreement. ie, "Xray" or any "diffed" client is in violation of their ToS. I've yet to hear/read anything about Gravity going after anyone for using their sprites. In actuality, Gravity has on numerous instances taken maps from private servers (ie Usako's maps), sprites for "concept inspiration" amongst other things (Cash Shop derived from private server's "Donation" systems).

To counter the clientEXE issue, there's a project currently which is writing a game client from the ground up.


Back on topic, though. Anyone who gets their content "stolen" who didn't take any form of security procedures are to blame. RMS can't do anything about it, so why should the forum be spammed with, "Zomgz _____ done stoled mi contents plaz hulp!"?

[PoisonWolf]

yC,

Make a new forum section under server discussion. Call it "Q.Q more, we don't care.".

End of discussion. Move all future threads like this there.

Cheers.

[A92FL0163]

Or call it the Drama Reactor.

or mebbe sop opera is made 4 dat

[yC]

yC,

Make a new forum section under server discussion. Call it "Q.Q more, we don't care.".

End of discussion. Move all future threads like this there.

Cheers.

Thanks PoisonWolf for asking the question.  The hall of shame is exactly what you are looking for.  Look at the description:

Hall Of Shame

This section is for reporting doubtful practice done by players or servers that is not in direct violation to our terms. Which means we can do nothing about it but you are free to let people know about the story.

We cannot do anything doesn't mean they can't talk about it.  That's what the section is made for.  No point having it there and tell people "no you can't post because we can't do anything".  Why they can't post because we can't do anything about it?  If that is the new philosophy of a forum, I don't think there is much left in a forum except these suggestion/support/report sections where we can actually do something.  

What about all those other gm corrupt etc?  we won't help them but we still let them post.  When we tell them we are not the RO Police, we try to move their topic to the hall of shame as much as possible depend on the story/proof given.  I don't intend to change that at all.  

I talked to Descent about the "protection".  Now, I would like to ask is there a step by step guide on making an encrypted grf? not to mention the follow-up guide on hexing the client and any special procedure on the patcher to make them all work smoothly together like the unencrypted grf.  If it's so easy why haven't many server/artist do it?  Where are some guides?  If the method is well known and is working so good to protect a grf, they would have used without problem.

I tried googling it and find nothing useful.  One of the result is "GetAFreelancer.com - encrypt grf projects" but no other info I can find on it, is that mean you have to pay a few hundreds $ to have it done?  

If LiteX make it sound like hacking an encrypted grf too easy.  I think we assumed "making an encrypted grf and edit your client to be able to read the encrypted content + patching the encrypted grf" is too easy.  

While searching at the eA forum I landed on this thread  (roughly one year ago):
http://www.eathena.ws/board/index.php?showtopic=197451

Seems it's easier to say than done.  Usako even said they have to protect this protection method because if it goes out the protection is no longer a protection.  Now how can we expect average people to get their hands on such protection method?  

I think, without any direction given, telling the spriter "you could have protected your work" is very irresponsible.  It's like I ride a bike and I complain it's too slow, the guy next to me tell me to get a BMW -_-.

[PoisonWolf]

yC,

Make a new forum section under server discussion. Call it "Q.Q more, we don't care.".

End of discussion. Move all future threads like this there.

Cheers.

Thanks PoisonWolf for asking the question.  The hall of shame is exactly what you are looking for.  Look at the description:

Hall Of Shame

This section is for reporting doubtful practice done by players or servers that is not in direct violation to our terms. Which means we can do nothing about it but you are free to let people know about the story.

We cannot do anything doesn't mean they can't talk about it.  That's what the section is made for.  No point having it there and tell people "no you can't post because we can't do anything".  Why they can't post because we can't do anything about it?  If that is the new philosophy of a forum, I don't think there is much left in a forum except these suggestion/support/report sections where we can actually do something.  

What about all those other gm corrupt etc?  we won't help them but we still let them post.  When we tell them we are not the RO Police, we try to move their topic to the hall of shame as much as possible depend on the story/proof given.  I don't intend to change that at all.  

I talked to Descent about the "protection".  Now, I would like to ask is there a step by step guide on making an encrypted grf? not to mention the follow-up guide on hexing the client and any special procedure on the patcher to make them all work smoothly together like the unencrypted grf.  If it's so easy why haven't many server/artist do it?  Where are some guides?  If the method is well known and is working so good to protect a grf, they would have used without problem.

I tried googling it and find nothing useful.  One of the result is "GetAFreelancer.com - encrypt grf projects" but no other info I can find on it, is that mean you have to pay a few hundreds $ to have it done?  

If LiteX make it sound like hacking an encrypted grf too easy.  I think we assumed "making an encrypted grf and edit your client to be able to read the encrypted content + patching the encrypted grf" is too easy.  

While searching at the eA forum I landed on this thread  (roughly one year ago):
http://www.eathena.ws/board/index.php?showtopic=197451

Seems it's easier to say than done.  Usako even said they have to protect this protection method because if it goes out the protection is no longer a protection.  Now how can we expect average people to get their hands on such protection method?  

I think, without any direction given, telling the spriter "you could have protected your work" is very irresponsible.  It's like I ride a bike and I complain it's too slow, the guy next to me tell me to get a BMW -_-.

YC.

As much as Usako and I do not see eye to eye on an array of subjects, I will stand on her side of the line on this one.



Cheers.

[Descent]

This is absolutely ludicrious of you to say, yC.

It's "irresponsible" to tell the spriter to be responsible with their work?

No point having it there and tell people "no you can't post because we can't do anything".

Okay, so we junk eAthena/Support related topics...why? We're instructed to remove them due to the fact that RMS does not support their questions related to eA and eA support topics.

Yet, we allow the drama-fest to occur over "stolen" "work", even though we admit there's nothing we here at RMS can do about it?

I'm sorry...am I the only person who thinks this is completely contradictory?

[LiteX]

Protection can be easly hacked,

Please explain how, since you seem to think it's so easy.

Whoops, forgot to mention I heard that from a second-hand source, so I really am not 100% sure, typeing while sleepy=many mistakes

"sprites for "concept inspiration" amongst other things (Cash Shop derived from private server's "Donation" systems)."

Wait, didn't other MMO's also used legal RMT?


"Hall Of Shame

This section is for reporting doubtful practice done by players or servers that is not in direct violation to our terms. Which means we can do nothing about it but you are free to let people know about the story."

Custom stealings actually fit it this...

"If LiteX make it sound like hacking an encrypted grf too easy.  I think we assumed "making an encrypted grf and edit your client to be able to read the encrypted content + patching the encrypted grf" is too easy."

This situation is pretty much debatable, some people consider that "the ones with the most skill are the only ones who shall live" which pretty much fits on some logic, while others consider that "help the unskilled so everyone wins" is what we should live on,

"It's "irresponsible" to tell the spriter to be responsible with their work?"

Depends on situations, if the spriter did not know about grf protection then saying "better luck next time, you can do nothing about it, you should have used protection" then it's pretty much dickery to some, this goes like the above argument

[jTynne]

This is absolutely ludicrious of you to say, yC.

It's "irresponsible" to tell the spriter to be responsible with their work?

No point having it there and tell people "no you can't post because we can't do anything".

Okay, so we junk eAthena/Support related topics...why? We're instructed to remove them due to the fact that RMS does not support their questions related to eA and eA support topics.

Yet, we allow the drama-fest to occur over "stolen" "work", even though we admit there's nothing we here at RMS can do about it?

I'm sorry...am I the only person who thinks this is completely contradictory?

With all due respect to yC, I also find this contradictory.

Be open to change, yC, and don't let your pride get in the way of this.

[yC]

I mean if you tell them "you can protect your work", at least tell them how.  Otherwise it's an irresponsible statement.  It's funny my words are always twisted in a way I don't mean it to be.  I think Serenity totally misunderstood me.

Now I did try to find out how on the previous post and I can't seems to find a way to learn how to encrypt the grf, hex the client to be able to use it, and make it work with a patcher.  Mind to share the secret so not to be irresponsible?  

Like if there's a working guide out there, that can really solve the problem for the stealing once and for all.  I would love to link it to each and every thread that mentions this kind of problem so they don't repeat the same mistake again.  That will solve the problem, otherwise the description of the Hall of Shame section is what is it for.