Hall of Shame GMs and Their Applications

[yC]

The problem is it's the recruitment section, we don't want proof of anything.  Save them for the HoS.

http://www.ratemyserver.net/forum/paid-services//recruitment-sub-forum-rule/0/

[Tom~]

She provided proofs of Ac1D being Moonlight1k. Not about the corruption itself.

[GorthexTiger]

Fact of the matter is: Aside from the drama it creates, the GM HoS is a tool. A useful tool used by the community as players, and server owners, or potential staff, that can use it to find out what past atrocities occurred on a previous server or incident, who was behind what, and what exactly went down.

To allow people to post resumes back into the Hall of Shame because "well the admin will ultimately hire them or not" is just a cop-out. This ultimately puts the consequences and blame on the admin who does the hiring and potentially leaves them in the dark about their new employee. As a community, people expect non-corruption servers, but, to not give a heads-up when people could / possibly be / are corrupt ("oh, btw, this guy f*** up cereasily on XYZRO"), is hindering to community and totally undermines the entire purpose of the Hall of Shame.

It's sort of like how people deal with Sex Offenders. If you're convicted as a Sex Offender, you have to register and keep up-to-date with EVERYTHING on record: basically from where you live to the amount of oz. your s*** weighs.

It also comes up when you get a job.

So, if RMS wants to be synonymous with basically allowing people to hire Sex Offenders without telling them that they are: that's on you.

Inb4: Well they can become a new person!

No s***. Anyone with an IQ over 50 can easily "die" online and become a new person. It's not hard and it's VERY easy to do.

There really IS no way around this: except without staff assistance. It's already been proved that the RMS staff will NOT post the IPs of people suspected of being someone in the HoS, so, the best thing the community can do, is be vigilant and keep on the look out. Even with vigilance, it is still possible to be fooled, as anyone can use a proxy and post here to hide their identity.

Without staff help in tracking HoS members on the forums (it's not like I'm asking you to follow them IRL 24/7) it then becomes focused on the members to do the brunt of the work.

The only alternative to this is to FORCE or MOD-NAZI people to follow those Reporting Guidelines that yC seems so fond of. If someone can prove that they are indeed a HoS member then fine, post the proof and THAT'S IT. If s*** starts to break out (people go off topic, spam, lolz posts, trolls) then the staff needs to grow a pair and pimp slap some b****. Delete posts, mute / warn people. I've seen you all do it, don't be afraid to.

The fact is: the HoS is a tool that is run and maintained by the community in order to warn other servers, players, and potential staff of horrible / bad players and remind them of their past actions. It's used as a warning, a detriment. Green & Relics are right: it's ultimately up to the server admin if they hire them or not, but don't let that be an excuse to still not give them that extra warning. I think, if we were all in that person's shoes, we'd like to know what we're getting ourselves into.

If you disagree with this then fine: delete the HoS because otherwise, you're contradicting yourself by making a HoS thread that has no purpose if people can just repost their resume and be all hunky dory.

[Yukino]

At yC: We can't post a Hall of Shame thread about a recruitment thread made by a GM Hall of Shame, can we? If so, let chaos be loose. Expect more player bashing, and don't expect us to be nice. We're helping others -utilitarianism-. You shouldn't lock those threads then when we make them unless we go off-topic or insult them to the lowest degree possible. If you accept that, then at least people will be notified of such applications. Also, since you said we... should? I shall post about the application that we all know about unless you already dealt with it. It's been proven already, and you know it. Then again, for the Hall of Shame, "nothing can be done about it" is a bad slogan. As you could have noticed, some links for the rules aren't working for the Hall of Shame guideline and some others. I keep clicking on them to see what we have to follow by, but it's kind of hard to keep the rules when you can't go to them... Hall of Shame is for servers and not for recruitment threads unless you change that. Otherwise, where shall we comment on such faulty applications?

Also, might I add, "your reply must not question the age, gender, nationality, family history and anything that has nothing to do with the person's ability as a worker or owner on a RO server" for the guideline is faulty. Some of those parameters are found in their applications; hence, people can question about them. Like that "certain" application with the age and gender. Wouldn't want to have a girl talk with a guy whom you thought was a girl, would you? LOL. You also typed "Your reply must be related to the job or the applicant" which, in a sense, we all did. Can't blame us for that. Two rules are contradicting each other. Like this one: "Your reply must not comment on the applicant or the applicant's resume."~ I understand it's hard to make such defined rules, but it's times like these that I would like to question about them.

At Astraliche: I didn't disagree with Luna's action o-o. I know my suggestion has flaws XD I know it's hard to accomplish, but mods providing links would be easier and such. Though, for the ones we DO KNOW are Hall of Shame GMs, we shouldn't let them post or provide links to their past acts. Also, there are just blantant connections here and there. A person cannot change so easily, especially when it comes to one's own words and style. (I can though <3)

I don't want to sound mean (I probably am), but my point stands valid. Many other people agree (check the poll), and it's just something to think about. Perhaps you can change the rules about the recruitment threads and allow players to post such links or something else. It's not a matter to be ignored and casted away. Don't promote applications of such GMs. Let them PM people themselves because the public *most of us* don't want to be deceived anymore.

Addition: I agree with GorthexTiger (out of the blue: you make awesome arguments at times). We need to know about such things. Don't keep us out of the dark. What Luna did helped many people (I feel it did at least). If the other people didn't post, you people would have deleted that thread just because of her one post with the links anyways. As I said, change the recruitment section a bit to make the situation better.

[Metafalica]

Entries to the GM HOS need to be more than just a name.

[Revenant]

Perhaps a link to the topic which gave the evidence that landed them in it, and a list of all their frequented names?

[Metafalica]

There already is a link to the topic, if you bothered to read before you posted. Which you didn't.
Their frequented names, email and such would be nice.

[yC]

She provided proofs of Ac1D being Moonlight1k. Not about the corruption itself.

I just said

The problem is it's the recruitment section, we don't want proof of anything.

-.-.  The recruitment section is not for flame, not for proof, not for drama. If you see a HoS GM post there why not just report and get it deleted.  You can post your proof in a report post so not to break the recruitment topic guidelines or be charged of driving topic off-topic.

http://www.ratemyserver.net/forum/paid-services//recruitment-sub-forum-rule/0/

- your reply must not be an attack or insult to the original poster.
- your reply must not comment on the recruiter or the recruiter's server.
- your reply must not comment on the applicant or the applicant's resume.
- your reply must not question the age, gender, nationality, family history and anything that has nothing to do with the person's ability as a worker or owner on a RO server.

We don't take those guidelines too strict when the post is at least not damaging to the applicant/recruiter.  There rule is there to protect the poster's right in the section.  In the real world, asking "age, gender, nationality, family history and anything that has nothing to do with the person's ability [on the job]" is a type of discrimination.  These shall are only be discussed when the applicant is comfortable with the topic.  It's not faulty at all, it says "your reply must not question".  If the information is already posted, I don't see how you would question it.  

I somehow can't find the topic in the junk yard anymore ... except the reported posts and quotes.

"Your reply must be related to the job or the applicant" so .. this is related?  What that has to do with the person's ability on the position?

can you say: dickcicle?

Or starting a third party matter on someone's application topic.  

well like i said, he didnt seem so bad so far, and if somebody were to hire him, thats what precautions are for. Reduced powers/priviledges/position, keeping him under close watch and logged, etc etc.

you basically take a risk hiring anybody, its easy to change your information online if you have a bad rep, anybody on that shame list could easily have changed everything about themselves, and passed as a new person and possibly even hired as a new gm on another server. On the net, there is no "Safe" action.

at least he's being upfront about his past. thats rare to find in itself.

You are either naive, an optimist, or a pacifist.

I hate all three.

The strict rules on reply are there to govern posts like that.  Nobody wants to post an application and get judged by unknown people left and right that might or might not have a position open, then have the topic dragged miles away about nothing in particular.  If you are the applicant what would you think of this community.

The section is made for people to hire or get hired.  It's not a playground.  If you are not interested in both sides you shouldn't be posting there.  

[to answer the original suggestion]: I didn't disagree with not allowing HoS GM/Server in the recruitment section.  It just need to be reported in a way that is not breaking the recruitment guidelines. You can help by making a report to anything you see that is not right.  Just PM any staff or use the report function.  A reply to the topic is not a report, it may or may not get staff attention before it gets buried by other posts.  When I said to repost the application obviously I am not aware of that the person is a gm in the HoS.  The topic need to be junked when I saw it was because the purpose of the topic was not there anymore.  Be it a Hos GM app or others, in that case I wrongly treated him as "others".

Those rules will not change, the recruitment section will never open for drama.  Find somewhere else.

Yukino:  Link fixed.  That's the global forum guideline link that apply to the whole forum, you should have read it before posting but obviously it gets ignored I know.

[Tom~]

That topic got out of control because no one locked/deleted it on time. As I already said, this happened after Luna provided the info about Ac1D being a GM who is on the Hall of Shame. Since no one did anything about it... you can see what happened. =/

I didn't disagree with not allowing HoS GM/Server in the recruitment section.  It just need to be reported in a way that is not breaking the recruitment guidelines. You can help by making a report to anything you see that is not right.  Just PM any staff or use the report function.  A reply to the topic is not a report, it may or may not get staff attention before it gets buried by other posts.

Those rules will not change, the recruitment section will never open for drama.  Find somewhere else.

Fair enough. Should be added to the guidelines, though.

[Temjin]

What I don't understand is this need for "protection". If anything needs to be protected, it should be the Admins looking for potential hires, not the piece of trash who is intent on ruining yet another server.

Yes, it's not a playground, but last I checked, it's not a day care either. You're just as guilty of aiding and abetting it as the GMs who do this to themselves are of habitually creating problems on whatever server is within their grasp.

[GorthexTiger]

I didn't disagree with not allowing HoS GM/Server in the recruitment section.  It just need to be reported in a way that is not breaking the recruitment guidelines. You can help by making a report to anything you see that is not right.  Just PM any staff or use the report function.  A reply to the topic is not a report, it may or may not get staff attention before it gets buried by other posts.

Like Tom said, this needs to be added to the guidelines. Or, not exactly this wording but at least a proper way (to explain) what people can do to report it, to whom, and how.

[Yukino]

At yC: I read the global rules lol. That's the third thread I read since my coming to the forum. Hence, I checked all the other guidelines and noticed the links were still down for some "I have no clue" reason.

I agree with Tom~'s suggestion. Add it to your list of rules to make some things better. I read things in detail--hence I find so many loopholes at times.

Quote: "In the real world, asking "age, gender, nationality, family history and anything that has nothing to do with the person's ability [on the job]" is a type of discrimination.  These shall are only be discussed when the applicant is comfortable with the topic.  It's not faulty at all, it says "your reply must not question".  If the information is already posted, I don't see how you would question it."

We questioned it before since the information was fake based on previous links of RMS forums. It does have something to do with their ability on the job. Th ability to lie to potential hiring Admins. Some Admins do take age seriously. What happens if I need them to pay for a hoster or do something else that requires them to have a certain age? Then again, I can PM them, but isn't it better to ask for those who were wondering as well in case the person doesn't reply to the PM.

Quote: " "Your reply must be related to the job or the applicant" so .. this is related?  What that has to do with the person's ability on the position?"

I don't quite get... your reply to this o-o. Our replies did have to do with the applicants though. Hence, the contradiction.

Quote: "Or starting a third party matter on someone's application topic."

Um... It wasn't really a third party matter when it has GREATLY to do with the applicant and his/her abilities. Their abilities to ruin a server so easily.

Quote: "
The strict rules on reply are there to govern posts like that.  Nobody wants to post an application and get judged by unknown people left and right that might or might not have a position open, then have the topic dragged miles away about nothing in particular.  If you are the applicant what would you think of this community."

Hm, I don't think unknown people would really post, and we did reach a conclusion about the applicant. If I was the applicant, I would consider what I did in the past and rethink about posting. I wouldn't lie away to start a "new life". Even the person lied in their responses to our responses -if a mod ever read the posts- but that's okay. Everyone's busy. Thus again, it shows how much the applicant is so "suitable" for the job /sarcasm.

Quote: "The section is made for people to hire or get hired.  It's not a playground.  If you are not interested in both sides you shouldn't be posting there."

Lol, what? Our responses probably did help other people (though maybe not so many people should have posted). We... were interested in one side o-o The side where we don't approve of such an application in existence. Sure, some posts were flaming, but other posts were proofs, links, and other important things about the person's past acts and abilities as a "GM".

But yeah, I think it's good to just add "I didn't disagree with not allowing HoS GM/Server in the recruitment section.  It just need to be reported in a way that is not breaking the recruitment guidelines. You can help by making a report to anything you see that is not right.  Just PM any staff or use the report function.  A reply to the topic is not a report, it may or may not get staff attention before it gets buried by other posts" somewhat of these words as a new rule on the guidelines. I do read them all--there are just things we need to get across RMS. Some of us treat these things seriously as you can tell; it's not a playground for us, it's business as I said before. We want to know what we should do to report such applications. I would have pressed "report", but I wouldn't know if the mods would reject it seeing how they thought it was a "normal" application made by some normal player that wants to be a normal GM. I don't kid with such things, so don't assume I didn't read the rules and same with some other people. You'll probably going to get a lot of PMs because of the report button though o-o, but if you say so, we'll be fine with that then. However, the mods must act fast then before the GMs Hall of Shame get hired. It took a while for the mods to even react to "that" application thread.

[Tom~]

However, the mods must act fast then before the GMs Hall of Shame get hired. It took a while for the mods to even react to "that" application thread.

Yes! A faster reaction would've "saved the day"; but since the topic wasn't seen by the mods, we (yes, I include myself) kept posting against Ac1D.

[Yukino]

-nods- We understand all mods are busy with other things, but that thread has lasted for days like that, so... xD.

Lol, I agree with the quote in your signature, Tom~ XD.

Then again, posts like these do keep RMS active (sadly and happily).

[Tom~]

@Offtopic: AWWW I'm a troll? 

But yeah, faster moderation is needed! Mods just need to pay a little bit more attention ;o

@yC, I do like the idea of a... "collection" section; if the topic deserves it, it can later get moved to the HoS. +1