Ymir-RO

[loki1]

I am the other gm who was present, GM-Loki. I will respond in detail to your review, to assist future players in making their decision. I will present this as dialogue responding to lain.

I'll start by noting the booming economy within the server, with an increasing number of merchants appearing on the streets of Prontera. Many players have farmed items. Our average player count happens to be higher than twenty, for everyone's information.

Speaking in a language other than English is not "spamming", as you put it. English is not the world's sole language, although it is growing in popularity as a global language. If you would like to be able to see the characters, the East Asian font files are a free download from Microsoft's website, and are also on most Windows discs (look in Regional and Language options, in the control panel). If you see players speak English, it doesn't mean they know the English words to communicate across all subjects. Languages are very broad bodies of information. If players feel comfortable speaking in another language, then so be it. Why get angry at them for not being born in an English-speaking region? Why exclude them because they aren't as comfortable using English than their native language? Anyway, enough on language.

Next you state that Doctor was flooded with guild requests. There are in-game commands, such as @noask, designed to prevent this type of activity without getting abusive.  However, he wasn't wrong in asking them to stop spamming. Asking players to stop this type of activity is a good first step. Next, I note that the players were talking about Doctor in Korean. How you decided it was Korean is beyond me, as you were unable to see the characters; but let's leave that. Something which was removed from your story here was the fact that Doctor was certain the players were insulting him. I recall Doctor using vulgar language several times to describe the players. I must add that I was not around at the time when the players who were speaking a language other than English were referring to Doctor.  However, at any rate, telling these players to "kindly f*** off" is never appropriate, no matter how many guild requests they have sent you, especially when the @noask command is available for your use. For this, GM-Ymir muted Doctor for five minutes to allow him to cool down, and realise that he was getting aggravated over nothing serious, and that his responses were disproportionately strong. The five minutes should have allowed him to go and get a glass of water, to sit and think about what he had done, and basically for him to think about the events leading up to him making several insulting comments of several players. The events after this five minute period showed that he hadn't calmed down. However, I'll continue with Lain's abridged story. Lain says that "he should have been warned first and that using any sort of GM capabilities at this point on him was overkill especially given what was said". What was said could refer either to what Doctor said, or what the other players he insulted said. Although Lain is a little ambiguous here, I'll respond to each. If Lain refers here to what the players speaking a language other than English said about Doctor, we must consider that what was said is unknown to us all. Becoming infuriated over something that you can't read (because the fonts are not installed) that merely has your name in it demonstrates a very unstable personality. On the other hand, if here Lain is referring to what Doctor said, as in, telling the players to "kindly f*** off" was not a serious matter, this is just rude and could be considered excessive. Now, the next event in Lain's abridged story is an argument between Doctor and GM-Ymir. Although I don't have logs to clarify what Ymir did and did not say, I do know that Lain has put some words into my mouth, as I remember the little that I said clearly. Lain claims that "the Admins" said "No I'm Australian, I've said this", however I do not recall making such a statement, nor do the other admins I asked who were available at the time of writing. It is misinformation to state that the administrative team was all in prontera, attempting to prove that Doctor was not Australian. I for one was not, and as a member of the administrative team, this invalidates your statement. I did not use the word "biggot" once, although it isn't a word appearing in my lexicon. And now our hero, Lain, steps in, although apparantly has stepped in with a misdefinition of bigot (assuming that bigot was the word he intended to reference). Now it is said that I did nothing, and merely said that America was spoiled in comparison to Africa. Well, it is. I assume you have never donated to NPOs providing much needed support to these trouble-stricken lands. Now you abridge a little further ahead and state that you started swearing at "the GM" to get a response. Excessive swearing is prohibited by our rules.  However, before receiving warning mutes, you both asked to be banned. Obviously, we don't like banning players who are clearly agitated and would not be acting in such an aggressive manner normally, however these two were adamant on receiving a ban each. After some discussion, we decided the ban would suit these players who have shown racism by assuming an entire language to only be able to insult players (or so can be logically derived by examining Doctor's train of thought, when he thought he was being insulted just because his name came up in a non English conversation). While it is a shame that players had to be banned, they have been banned.

Now, you make comments on "site security" without making a single comment on site security. Really, you are making comments on a subject more similar to "data security". I would like to reassure any prospective players that their data is secure, and their data is encrypted (and in some cases, hashed) such that if a hacker did manage to enter the database, the details would be unusable.

We welcome Americans, indeed players from all nations to experience the fun environment we offer at Ymir-RO. Don't let this dispositionate player fool you. As he clearly held no value to his character, it is possible he planned his character as a faux from the start to kill a new server, although I see no reason to do so. Anyway, no matter what his reasons are, you should come give us a try. Also, no GM said anything anti-American at all.


In the end of his post, he makes a note that this server is advertised to be "only Australians" (forgive his grammar). This is misinformation. We welcome players from all over to play Ymir-RO. Welcome ^_^

This has been written hastily, so think of it as a draft; however I hope I have been able to shed a little bit of light on the reality of his claims. I invite you to see for yourself what we're like, and review us with your thoughts. http://www.ymir-ro.net/.



PS: For reference, in case of editing of the original post, the version of Lain's post I worked from follows:

Ymir-RO started out as a promising server, and at first it seemed like it was going to be my new favorite server. But there were some flaws.

Play time: 1 Day
Reason for limited play time: Requested Ban

Community: The server is very small which means you pretty much are bound to have interaction with every player. And of the players I met most of them were very nice. They were helpful and kind. Some were obnoxious and spammed in other languages but you could get over it.

Economy: Basically non-existant since the average amount of players online is < 20.

The GMs: We're helpful at first but showed a lack of immaturity not acceptable in Server Admins.

The Story: This is what you've been waiting for. I was on for one day with a very good friend of mine (Doctor), he's actually the one who told me to join. And after joining I was really beginning to like the server. Till some of the players started to spam in another language. This is basically annoying because for some people it doesn't even show up as characters, just weird boxes. And we knew they both spoke above decent english so, Doctor told them to stop spamming. They continued to and started talking about him in Korean. So me and him go into an argument about it. After that was over the GM's arrived in town. Me and Doctor we're talking to them when someone spammed Doctor with guild requests. Doctor told to kindly f*** off. The admins muted him saying he was using abusive language. I told them that he should have been warned first and that using any sort of GM capabilities at this point on him was overkill especially given what was said. After Doctor was unmuted he started arguing with the Admin and I sat and watched. This is when the admin said "Are you american, you act american. Very spoiled." Now I'm fairly certain this wasn't what was exactly said but I know he called americans spoiled, and after I confronted him he said "Everyone knows americans are spoiled." Those were his exact words that time. Doctor being australian, same as the Admins said "No I'm Australian, I've said this" the admins started on some sort of childish game to prove he wasn't australian, all this after chastising him for being what they called a biggot. So I stepped in and asked how he could possibly call someone a biggot after stereotyping a whole f*** country. This entire time the other GM sat there doing nothing to stop or break up the fight, he was saying america was spoiled in comparison to Africa and places like that. After the fight was over I got into an argument with the GM since he wouldn't even acknowledge that he'd stereotyped my entire country, so I started swearing at him to invoke a response. He kept dodging it so me and Doc we're like, Fine f*** off and Ban us. And after threatening to ban us he decided that he suddenly valued every member, so we kept provoking him to respond.

Site security: The sysadmin of the site is not heavily computer competent. I can't testify to rather or not his server and your information are secure. For that matter I can't be sure that if you do something childish he won't go off and raid your s*** with the information you willingly hand him when you sign up.

If the owner of Ymir reads this I ask you exactly when we used "gook" or the like. I remember getting pissy at you for being the discriminatory one.

To all americans: I figure avoid this server since he doesn't seem to like us. Everyone else is welcome though.

Also I deleted my original comment so I could post a link to this. Heres my review and his original response.

Only got to play for a day before being perma-banned. Most of the people are alright, Syaxe, Panda, and the rest. As for the GMs, my friend got into an argument with one and I sat by until the main Admin, GM-Ymir, make a stereotypical comment about americans. And the other GM instead of sorting it out defended the other GM.

Banned for racism and discrimination, I wouldn't take anything he said serious at all. Lain and his friend caused trouble and made many derogatory comment to races and sexual orientation. Truly an arrogant and ignorant person.

Again to the owner: Now that the whole story is out do you care to change your response. Or is that your final answer. Also for the love of god how can you advertise this server to be only Australians and claim someone else is a biggot. Seriously, you care to explain that one out? It's one thing to advertise looking for players of a certain language, but Australia is english, so I can only assume there would be a limited number of reasons to want only Australians. I really don't like you just for this. You claim we falsely reviewed your server. Do hypocritical s*** then call other people hypocrites, claim other people are immature when you do childish s*** on a server you claim to be able to manage? I would trust a 3 year old with my server before I trusted you. Doc reminds me that you aren't even sure about your own server specs. I asked you what you ran and you couldn't decide if it was quad-core or duo-core. This isn't a sign of a competent system administrator.

[GM-Ymir]

Since both sides have been said, can I request a lock so this thread does not turn into a boxing match. Thanks.

[Myridian]

But what about the cheating ?

[KariyaSaikatsu]

Ok, now I better speak up.

Wow, that's the server that cheats on gamesites200 with their votes right? Their in third place with 25 online daily, now feelro is in 2nd with 1600 online daily? Something fishy going on here, I don't like cheaters :x

Woah you're right they are in the 3rd spot http://www.gamesites200.com/ragnarok/ that is pretty obvious cheating, shame on them. I have 6x their population and we're on spot 121 (sucks to play fair sometimes -_-).

It's sill not right to cheat when other servers work hard to get to the top.

People, do players of your server vote daily? That's what it takes a server to the top, not an extremely high population with just "players" who don't even care about the server's rating. Let me cite an example--aeRO is a group of servers with over a thousand players total, and, look at their total votes--496?! (as of Nov. 6, 2008). That is what makes Ymir-RO different from all other servers I have ever seen.... every player cares about the server, which, in turn, cares about his players.

As for Lain... I haven't seen your conversation but you still haven't convinced me with your post.... well, I have never met you ingame either. I met Doctor, your friend, who seemed to be nice at first, but his excessive use of bad words just isn't good. "Kindly f*** off?" How can you even say "kindly" when there's a "f***" in there? That's abusive language. That suits "spamming" better than "speaking in a person's native language." And for thinking Ymir-RO was only for Australians... well, cut it off, pal; before you even came to Ymir-RO--and even before it reopened players from all over--Sweden, Philippines, Italy, USA, Canada, etc--have been playing in Ymir-RO peacefully, and just thinking that someone like you asked to ban foreigners, haha, you're off the road.

This is very simple, Lain, but just think... Who caused that thing you have experienced in Ymir-RO? Wasn't it you yourself?

I just don't find anything good in you... I can't discern anything right... It's just like you just want havoc in anywhere you go... most of Ymir-RO's players have found it their home--a place where they feel loved. A person like you can never change that.

[PoisonWolf]

Guys,

Let's see. Roughly 1700 votes. Let's assume an average of 25 players. This means 85 votes per person. Now, I don't know how long and what is the turnaround period before that topsite resets the counter. 85 votes per person, let's say, everyone is so adamant about voting, and decides to vote 2 times a day. That's 62 votes per month, (given the benefit of a 31-day month). Yet, there is still 23 votes unaccounted for (per-person).

If average players = 20 , vote per person needed = 85. Unaccounted for = 23 per person.
If average players = 25, vote per person needed = 68. Unaccounted for 8 per person.

You make the choice. No matter how much you love your server, the numbers speak more than the "love" you speak of. However, if the turnaround site for that topsite is 2 months, then disregard this. I am assuming a 1-month cycle here.

Cheers.

[GM-Ymir]

Poison Wolf, where exactly did you get 25 players as being our average? And you've yet to bring into consideration the other hosting we do. We get votes by all different types of means. And it's no wonder you've been warned, your continual bickering in threads leads to small issues being drawn out into five paged essays. This is a small issue, two players were banned for breaking the rules. And in fact they asked to be banned. So I don't see why this is being continued, as both sides have shared their side of the story.

[Pandora]

So you get votes from other sites, meaning from people who don't play your server, people who might not even play RO, that's not much better than bot-voting if it's even true.

Tops reset every month, meaning it resetted about 5 days ago, and your server has 1746 votes? I don't know how many players you have since it's not displayed on the website, but I doubt it's nearly enough to generate that kind of voting.

[Loki]

I think everything has been said and done. There's no reason to personally attack their servers on how they get their votes(believe me, I don't like cheaters too). Make a new thread instead.

[Pandora]

True, but I wont bother, I wasn't the one to bring it up anyhow, there are other topic about topsites and how they are rigged, I feel we've been over that already.

[lainAI]

I kind of skimmed but anyway where was I. Oh yeah, this is the first server I've ever been banned on. I'm not sure who you think I am but, I'm not banned on RRO, or eRO the two main servers I play, and I've never played micRO? So you're obviously mistaken. In response to Loki

I appreciate the fact you continually attack my grammar as if it some how invalidates everything I've said. And I ask you how insulting American's and advertising as wanting primarily Australians, doesn't come across as being welcoming to EVERYONE, further more a player shouldn't have to use Noask to block guild spam requests. Maybe he would have accepted a different invitation? Maybe if he had been asked to join instead of just spammed request it would have been accepted. Further more, the players in question that Doctor got pissed off at, spoke fluent english. So now care to explain what possible purpose it is to reference someones name in a sentence they cannot understand, other than to purposely invoke a response? Moving on, there was nothing ambiguous about that sentence. It was obviously about what Doctor had said to the player who had spammed guild requests at him. Also I find it hard to believe you didn't see Doctor say he was Australian many times. If you didn't see him say that repeatedly how can we trust you know the whole story. You admit not being there from the beginning, you say you didn't see stuff that was said multiple times, and you attack my grammar/spelling. Your argument is petty and weak, you don't even have the entire series of events mapped out right. Doctor was muted, I was never muted. And we didn't ask to be banned till way towards the end after it was obvious that we weren't welcome on said server. There was a bunch of tension between us and the server admins so what point was there in staying?

And then you go off to attack my usage of site security without even knowing what you're talking about? Lolwut. That was a pretty lulz sentence you said right there and I'd like to take a moment and compliment you on your absolute ignorance on security and security terminology while still trying to talk about it. GJ!

Firstly, the HTTPd on the same server as the eAthena daemon. Y/N? And since eAthena is mostly secure, the most likely attack would be done on the main site. Through some sort of SQL injection or through a general flaw in the coding. XSS or something like that. And if you have an admin panel on the main site, I'm fairly certain you don't re-authenticate after every login do you? Moving on, hashing IS encrypting. Olololol. Hashing is encrypting a string using an algorithm. In this case eAthena uses RAW MD5, not salted. So if someone DID get into the DB, which is by the way what you meant when you we're saying "data security", MD5's are very very very very very very very very very very easy to crack, it's probably one of the fastest hashes to crack running a bruteforcer on. It's considered outdated and isn't used much anymore. Things that do use it almost always salt nowadays, that way someone can't run a special attack using Rainbow tables, which is where someone uses pre-computated hashes and basically searches for the hash in the list of already computed hashes. Salting is where you use a random string and store it in the DB and then encrypt the string again using the salt to prevent any such attacks. And moving on, most servers dont even bother to hash the password. Look at RebirthRO, your account name and password are stored directly in your session data once you login. eRO is barely one step up, they store your MD5/account name. So yes, you tell me. Where would the most likely attack be carried out? A highly developed secure Server Daemon? Or some homebrew site running outdated server daemons (Apache 2.2.6) http://httpd.apache.org/security/vulnerabilities_22.html


+ Server: Apache/2.2.6 (Unix) PHP/5.2.5
- Allowed HTTP Methods: GET, HEAD, POST, OPTIONS, TRACE
+ OSVDB-877: HTTP method ('Allow' Header): 'TRACE' is typically only used for debugging and should be disabled. This message does not mean it is vulnerable to XST.
+ Apache/2.2.6 appears to be outdated (current is at least Apache/2.2.9). Apache 1.3.39 and 2.0.61 are also current.
+ PHP/5.2.5 appears to be outdated (current is at least 5.2.6RC4)
+ OSVDB-3233: GET /phpinfo.php : Contains PHP configuration information
+ OSVDB-877: TRACE / : TRACE option appears to allow XSS or credential theft. See http://www.cgisecurity.com/whitehat-mirror/WhitePaper_screen.pdf for details
+ OSVDB-3092: GET /forum/ : This might be interesting...
+ OSVDB-3092: GET /stats.html : This might be interesting...
+ OSVDB-3092: GET /test/ : This might be interesting...
+ OSVDB-3268: GET /images/ : Directory indexing is enabled: /images
+ 3577 items checked: 10 item(s) reported on remote host
+ End Time:        2008-11-08 0:11:00 (90 seconds)


And lastly now that we're done with that. Tell me how do you expect me to donate to any one? You don't know anything about my current living situation. That kind of thing is just ignorant. And at the time these events occurred. Doctor was on a very limited bandwidth connection. As you know Australian internet providers only provide you a limited amount of bandwidth a month. And he had a network connection akin to dial-up. So getting any sort of language packs would have been a joke.

[Doctor]

And now that ive read through this thread;
Loki, I was muted for 1 minute, then 2 minutes. Not 5. This proves you have no idea what your talking about, thus the rest of your post is void.
You and Ymir, for over an hour, denied be being australian, due to the fact id never heard of some word that apparently, all australians use. Even after id given you my address, the local shops in this area, and the fact that prior to the discussion, Id been talking about the dvds Id just put on layby at Big W. Which is in australia. Keeping into account, you STILL denied it, even though you *should* have logs, of me logging into the forums, with an IP address from TAFE, and from home. Both of which are australian IP's, one of which is an education/government IP, which I obviously wouldnt of "proxied" to login to your forum with.
Also, Just because someone is "vulgar", It in no way means racism. I swear at lain, and everyone on my msn list all the time. Do they care? No. This is a usual conversation with lain;

Me: wut
Me: nigr
Me: im board
Lain: iknorite
Me: Also, Suddenly, Faggots everywhere.
Me: olololololll

Yes, Thats it. Me saying "nigr", does make me racist. Nor does calling anyone a "faggot" vulgar. Its my personality, after 4 days of player, and you still hadnt seen that, then you deserve to go shoot yourself.

Onto those retards speaking in korean, They told me it was korean. You werent there, so you wouldnt know.
It started with that assassinfag, Dont know his name, was 4 characters long though. After EVERY duel/thing/anything, He would constantly at the other person, acting as if he was "LOLOLIMSOMUCHBETTATHANU,RETARDD!!11". And after I told him to stop doing that, many, many times, and telling him to, "JESUS CHRIST, THATS PISSING ME OFF. STFU WITH THE ", Him and his friend started talking about me in korean. And me saying he is insulting me is not "a problem with your personality".

All in all, we were basing the "Australians only" thing, on the fact that the server is advertised as AUSTRALIAN.
Sure, the people dont have to be australian, or speak english. But the fact is, in AUSTRALIA they speak english.
If you dont want to speak, or cannot speak english, 1) Why join the server? and 2) If you must speak in another language that the majority of people dont understand, dont do it in public. Use PM's, Party chat, Guild chat, Do it on a map where there arent other people. As I said, it is rude to talk in another language, in public, around others who dont understand. Its also rude to talk about other people, in another language, infront of that person.

Now, did you admins do anything about this? Even after I told them to stop "spamming" in another language? And yes, it is spamming, because no one cant understand it, thus, spam. So gtfo.

Now, Ymir.
You claimed all other GM's at servers had a "god complex". Sure they do, And so do you. You wont admit it though.
You also claim everything of yours is "homemade" and "secure", Yet your running an outdated forum, which you didnt code in the first place. I was also under the impression that, before the "fight" broke out, that you were thinking of giving Lain a future GM position, JUST for the fact that, He mentioned he was an admin on his own server. And because lain is epic and knows everything, gogogo.
Which makes me question your "security", If you just making any people who have just joined, GM's, because they claim to be an admin on another server.
All in all, Your an idiot, and your server will fail. If anything, to our hand.

@Kariya,
Ive nothing against you, And I dont see why you should see me as a "bad player". I didnt do anything to you, I still see you as a "friend" on that server, as with Jesus, and Hwoarang. But. You werent there when any of this happened, So I dont see why you would be going against me for whatever reason, I never did anything bad to you, and you "hear" of me being bad, so you immediately go against me. GREATWORK. You even took Sharingans side against the GM before, and hes an idiot. Ololololol.
No, Im not saying you should oppose the GM. Im wondering why you would come in here, and post saying im "vulgar". Im not vulgar, if anything, I avoid using real "swearing". I dont use "fark", and the such. I use, Fag, Faggotseverywhere, Retard, ololololfag, nub, bawwwwwwwww, all round, memes. And no, they arent vulgar. The only times I swear for "real", is when someone is realing pissing me off. Like getting a guild invition, from the same person, everytime they spawn into town, when they cant even speak english, and are hoping for anyone to join.

Im not saying anything about them not speaking english, My point is, why have a guild if no one knows anything about eachother, and cant even understand. Especially the guild leaders that dont talk atall, and dont respond to anything. If your going to be a guild leader, atleast know english, if your inviting english speakers.

So to those saying im being "racist", Im not racist. Whos to say what is racist?
And no, I dont know where you got the whole, "Calling members, gooks, chinks, and niggers". I said nigr, I wasnt insulting anyone.

Lrn2read.

EDIT::
Also, Ymirs "god complex". Notice how, just after he posts, he requests the thread to be locked? Yeah. Its all about him. HE gets the last word, because he is god.
::EDIT

EDIT::2
Also; Sure its for everyone But, Ymir says;
www.ymir-ro.net Made by Australians primarily for Australians. We're still growing and would love to see you and your mates around here.

Regards
Ymir

2::EDIT

tl;dr
Lolfag.

[KariyaSaikatsu]

@Doctor

I don't find you a BAD player... all I find annoying with you is your language--you keep on using racist and abusive words.

I met Doctor, your friend, who seemed to be nice at first, but his excessive use of bad words just isn't good.

That's the only sentence that includes you in my previous post. Does that say "Kariya says doc is a bad person"? Nah. I posted here for the server's sake, not to start quarrels with you.

[Doctor]

My whole last post explained that I dont use racist/abusive words. ANYWAY, I think this threads gonna get moved soon. ololol

[Loki]

I hope nobody mistakes me for GM Loki(loki1 in RMS) of Ymir-RO.

[KariyaSaikatsu]

My whole last post explained that I dont use racist/abusive words. ANYWAY, I think this threads gonna get moved soon. ololol

Come on, cut it out... when you were in Ymir-RO--even when I was tanking you--you kept using abusive words, i.e. "f*** that connection, you always get dc," "bulls***," "f*** off..." etc.

Aren't those words abusive?