Elaria Woon Reloaded

[snowblind]

Ok, now you made me curious.What is this based of and (sorry, no offense) do you have the slightest idea what you talk about?

what? According to the GMs, hercules uses renewal settings for alot of things, and now they're always busy reverting them.

[Prism~]

Any competent developer would know not use use a Hercules emulator for Pre-RE. I don't know hardly anything when it comes to developing, and even I know that. This server is a complete train wreck I don't see how people are actually playing it aside from: Server Name/Admin Reputation > The Actual Quality of the Server. Wake up people.

[Ridley]

what? According to the GMs, hercules uses renewal settings for alot of things, and now they're always busy reverting them.

I can assure that isn't true. All the currenty emulators are forks from eathena and build their renewal content on this base. I don't think there is a huge differennce in using rAthena or Hercules for pre-renewal. Some bugs were fixed, some new appeared. Haru (the project leader of hercules) has an own pre-renewal server. If you follow their work you can see he rejects anything that would affect pre-renewal. Not to mention a lot players are used to were never official (example old mob behavior, old path finding, endless tower, those are all things which were bugged since very beginning. Once they were fixed (well, ET still is bugged) players qqed cause they didn't know the so called bug is the actual fix. But I think this is a bit off-topic.

Yes, maybe the names attracted the people to the server. Yes, maybe they do not listen to all the suggestions if they do not fit their plan/opinion. On the other hand I don't think this isn't that bad. A server needs it's unique plan and setting, from how I read it they don't want to attract the old veterans anyways. The first impression is userfriendly, you can see they work on their baby. The documentation is well made and you can follow their steps. So I don't think anything is wrong here.

[Suspension]

As an Hercules contributor, I say s***. The majority of changes those GM are reverting are not because Renewal changed them, but because they got fixed from eAthena and thus, skills work different.

Example:
Claymore trap reverted back to pre-re, it will now do tons of damage based on #of mobs on it <- Updated by Gravity before Renewal.
Recasting songs reset the 20 seconds timer <- Not a bug, this is how it works on Aegis. There's a configuration setting to have the old behavior back, nothing to fix.
Magic Amplify is no longer a set cast time but rather can be reduced with stats and status effects like in classic  <- It always was a fixed cast.

Now, they could change another setting for Snap Dodge and call it a bugfix, let champions dodge damage like in eAthena, because pre-re.

[Playtester]

Not everything is bugged on Herc, but a lot more things are bugged on Herc than on rAthena.

If you follow the discussion it goes like this:

things like devo, amplify magic, pnuema, sanc, not working properly

True, and most of it is because hercules was a terrible choice for them as a pre-re server.

Ok, now you made me curious.What is this based of and (sorry, no offense) do you have the slightest idea what you talk about?

So let's look at these examples:

Devotion - Is pretty much bugged on all emulators the moment. The devo code in both rAthena and Herc is a complete mess. Lighta once wanted to rework it but he disappeared (got busy) before he could finish it.

Amplify Magic - The activation of damage increase and when the damage increase stops was properly implemented on rAthena a year ago. Not merged to Herc as far as I know. rAthena also had a fix how the cast time reduction works for several skills including this one, which is not on Herc (see: https://github.com/rathena/rathena/commit/4c2d5153c3b50b98fa459296ca65a6a0d5444fa9).

Pneuma - The range checks for all the skills as well as special behavior for monsters casted skills vs. pneuma was implemented properly on rAthena a year ago, not merged to Herc.

Sanctuary - The duration and how often it can heal and damage was fixed on rAthena a year ago, not merged to Herc.

So I'd say in 3 of 4 of the mentioned examples snowblind does have a point.


Traps and dances are rather things people don't WANT official in the first place, so it doesn't really matter. But in terms of behavior Herc is closer to official regarding songs, but it only has the "unlimited song" exploit partially fixed which is fully fixed on rAthena. A few things on trap behavior might be closer to official on rAthena than on Herc (like which skills can hit traps and stuff like that).

[Suspension]

The main argument against merging rA changes is the lack of documentation or official sources justifying those changes. For example, the new monster behavior merged from rA is completelly bugged and has to be removed.

Although I am not saying that is the reason those commits are not merged.

In the opposite direction there are some changes that weren't merged into rA, for example, targeted skills vs hiding interaction.

[Playtester]

omg mod please close this topic playtester derailing it again with his anti-hercules bs

I didn't start the discussion? Why point me out when snowblind started the discussion and Suspension continued it? I only jump in when someone gives wrong information, I never derail a thread myself. Also, there's nothing wrong discussing it.

The main argument against merging rA changes is the lack of documentation or official sources justifying those changes.

All my commits are fully documented on github and include my tests on official servers. Nobody commits something without being sure it's official.

For example, the new monster behavior merged from rA is completelly bugged and has to be removed.

What issue do you have with it?

[BestPlayerEver]

Lol, this kid is qqing over flaming in game?

Yes, it was out of line for an admin to say those things, but then again, that shows how chill the server admins are. They aren't robots. Nihad always had a vulgar humor. Get over it bro.

The only thing I can say about this server is that the 3pp ban is absolutely retarded.

[Suspension]

All my commits are fully documented on github and include my tests on official servers. Nobody commits something without being sure it's official.

I don't mean your documentation, but Gravity's sources. Nothing backs up the behavior it shows on rA.

For example, arrow repel pushing away the target under pneuma, renewal damage and aspd were bugged until Hercules fixed it, some skill bonuses were wrong until recently, etc.

Monsters drop target too soon compared to official, but that's clearly the mistake of observational emulation, for you it's working correctly.

Users do not want some official changes because those are the most drastic and distintive, just like Meteor storm over land protector, which comes from rA. At least, drastic changes in Hercules come with a setting to use the old behavior.

Each one has better emulation in some areas and worse in some others compared to other emulator, so it's difficult to say which one is better. Furthermore, it's disrespectful to continually bash other people's work, specially when yours is not perfect either.

[Playtester]

I don't mean your documentation, but Gravity's sources. Nothing backs up the behavior it shows on rA.

The source is me testing on official servers / Aegis. And I do document all tests on github.

For example, arrow repel pushing away the target under pneuma, renewal damage and aspd were bugged until Hercules fixed it, some skill bonuses were wrong until recently, etc.

I think pneuma and renewal damage are working properly on rAthena too. All my test cases showed same results as on officials.

It's true that renewal ASPD is completely bugged on rAthena, but this thread is about a pre-renewal server.

Monsters drop target too soon compared to official, but that's clearly the mistake of observational emulation, for you it's working correctly.

What exactly do you mean? You mean using the NPC_EMOTION skill too soon? And how do you define "too soon"? On my tests on iRO classic I've had monster drop target already after only walking 2-3 cells, so there's definitely no min limit.

Users do not want some official changes because those are the most drastic and distintive, just like Meteor storm over land protector, which comes from rA. At least, drastic changes in Hercules come with a setting to use the old behavior.

I try to put configurations but something the code structure is so different that's it's hard to do and rAthena's goal is only to support official kRO, everything else is just a bonus. Yes it's nice to have more configurable, but last time I checked Herc didn't have this implemented correctly at all.

Each one has better emulation in some areas and worse in some others compared to other emulator, so it's difficult to say which one is better. Furthermore, it's disrespectful to continually bash other people's work, specially when yours is not perfect either.

Well good thing I don't bash other people's work. I never absolutely said that rAthena is better, I often even said that Herc is better for the not so well-versed admin because of easier configurations. But I'll still say that rAthena is the best choice for pre-renewal if you want an accurate implementation, simply because it has more skill and monster behavior fixes that all affect pre-re.

The real problem however is that different emulators even exist. If people could have just put their differences aside and work together on one emulator, it would be much better than any of the ones existing now.

[Suspension]

[...]I never absolutely said that rAthena is better [...] But I'll still say that rAthena is the best choice for pre-renewal [...]

Well, nothing more to say.

[Playtester]

Yeah, that's nothing other than what you said:

Each one has better emulation in some areas and worse in some others compared to other emulator