LimitRO MR

[Usagimimi]

Hi ^^ I'm going to review LimitRO Mid-Rate Server; their website can be found here. I've played on LimitRO for two weeks now; I've done 100+ posts on the forum within this time and I've been in-game more than 82h (no AFK). I'll let note now that I've seen some things that I agree but in general, the server needs a major "think over". I'll divide this up into parts and then mention "Pros" and "Cons". Do bare with me.

Stability

LimitRO has a bit of a server issue when regarding lag. Sometimes the server will "jam" and you won't be able to click anything. Your character will get stuck and if you're mobbing, you can expect to be dead when it "unjams". The major lag occurs when you're mobbing 8+ monsters on an unpopulated map. In towns, Prontera is ridiculously laggy and, although we've suggested ways to reduce this lag, the Administrator has opposed all suggestions.

On another note, a lot of people have had "freak disconnections", in which, for no apparent reason, one will be disconnected while everyone else stays online. I was playing with a friend of mine and I was disconnected. When I messaged him on MSN, he told me he was still in-game. The next day, the same thing occured to said friend, even though we both have 7mbps+ wired Internet connections. When we asked about these "freak disconnections" on the forum, we had no reply.

I've never seen LimitRO have a downtime; do note that I've only been here two weeks, though.

The website is having issues, too. It's extremely slow sometimes; it even Times Out a lot. They really need to change their host.

The Community

The community seems great other than the random people who will PM you calling you a loser for no reason. I made some friends; no one seems really racist towards others unless you're Spanish / Pinoy. If you speak Spanish, prepare for the traditional "Speak English" line that will pop out of some ignorant person's mouth.

There are also a lot of KSers and contrary to the Administrator's belief, there are bots crawling everywhere; there aren't any in-game GMs to ban them, though.

The Economy

The economy is 90% terrible. Orlean's Glove [1] is 70mil+ (it can reach 120mil for one at an auction); Oridecon and Elunium are 50k each; Ulle's Cap is 35-50mil; Burning Bow, EDP, and Nightmare Card are all overpriced among other cards (Turtle General at 1bil when it's a .25% drop and useless now due to the description change; it's worth perhaps 200mil now). The funny thing is, the guy next to the Overpriced guy is selling Burning Bow for 100k, EDP for 150k, and Orlean's Glove [1] for 40mil! It's hilarious. The community is seriously dense on the value of things; take for instance, a +7 Boned Infiltrator at 80mil. This is an extremely good price! It drops at .25%, it has a 20% chance of becoming slotted, and it was refined to +7! But apparently 80mil is "overpriced".

People will seriously try to rip you off as well. I was selling Oridecon [Pure] for 18k - severenly underpriced for LimitRO standards but an acceptable price in my eyes - and someone tried to get me to sell it to them at 14k, saying: "Give me a discount". I was giving him a 32k discount already and he demands even more! He even persisted, trying to get me to sell it for 14k, but I declined, simply saying that I can easily get 18k for my Oridecon.

The Game Masters

There are no Game Masters in-game (unfortunate since the population is 400+) but they are on the forums a lot. Wicca and Falcon appear to be reasonable; when they know that a player is right and the Administrator is wrong, they will say it. An example of this is in the topic suggesting that there be in-game GMs. Wicca agrees with a player, unlike Lai, that there are bots in-game, and that Lai being so sure of himself isn't good.

Lai is not a GM who offers convenience to his players. He's a dictator; he's self-absorbed. If he doesn't want something done, he won't do it. He has even gone as far as to make the Help & Support Section a No-Reply Section. Why? Because he doesn't want anyone to oppose his decisions. He closes topics abruptly and forces people to create new topics for the same problem / an unfinished issue. Here are two more examples of the same issue: Example 1; Example 2. We can't even respond that we're still having trouble; we have to make a new topic and wait for Lai and solely Lai to reply. If someone knows the answer, we're screwed until Lai comes around and says the exact same thing.

Lai is also harsh with questions. He's unfriendly and won't do anything that he doesn't like, even if the vote was 1000 to 1. He insists on his opinions and doesn't offer arguments; he indirectly tells us that our suggestions / opinions are nothing, and his is the "Ultimate" one because he's the admin. He also insists that some things are like they are because LimitRO is supposed to be a "kRO inspiration". He says Dual-Clienting isn't in kRO so it's not allowed; however, I don't remember kRO having hats that give +5 to all stats, including DEF and MDEF. His arguments never hold any ground and he's completely ignoring the wishes of his players.

Lai doesn't even follow his own rules! He posts this and therefore breaks this rule. What good is an admin who can't even follow his own rules (but has no problem punishing others for doing the same thing)? Administrators aren't exempted from following the rules; sorry, but that's not how it works.

Therefore, the main GM = fail.

*Pros & Cons Section*

All right, now that you've heard all of the above, I will display the Pros & Cons of LimitRO based on my opinion. Here we go.

Pros

- Automated Events
- 3rd Job Class
- Interesting War of Emperium
- Decent Player vs Player
- International Community
- Item "Mall" (In Prontera)
- You "Feel" That There Actually Is 400+ Online
- Generally Friendly Community

Cons

- Terrible Administrator
- Terrible Economy
- Community Is Full Of Griefers / Kill Stealers
- GMs Are Never Online To Enforce Rules
- Help & Support Section Is "No Reply"
- No Events (Aside Automated Events)
- "Mall" NPCs Are All Named "Shop"; You Can't Really Tell Who Sells What
- History Of Wipes (Admin Owned An HR Before That Wiped 3 Times)
- @Autotrade is a 15$CAD Per Month Command
- Warpra Is 2500Z Each Time
- Administrator Makes Changes Without Consulting The Community
- Dual-Clienting Is Disabled
- Hideous Lag When Mobbing / In Prontera (Server "Jams" Frequently)
- Shops Litter The Streets; A Market Place Idea (Although Wanted By The Community) Was Thrown Away By Admin
- Minimal Hairstyles & Palettes For Non-Donators
- Lack Of Donating Options (No Western Union; This Idea Was Also Thrown Away By Admin)
- Expensive Donations In General
- Administrator Treats Himself Like A God
- No Player Respect From Administrator
- Endless Unfixed Bugs
- Administrator Lacks Consideration Towards Players
- NPCs In Prontera, Aldebaran, Geffen, etc. Are Badly Organized
- Refiners Do Not Have "Refine To This Level" Option
- Terrible Host; The Main Site & Forums Take 5min+ To Open Sometimes

This server lives up to its name - LimitRO - and it's apparent why.

Lai also mentioned he had problems with RMS and didn't want to put LimitRO on their site. Not only is he pretty much banned from it but he's had some God awful reviews before my own as well.

*Sources*

LimitRO Forums; you need to be registered to see:

Zero Spam Rule
Suggestion Forum
Renaming "Shop" NPCs [Closed Now]
Renaming "Shop" NPCs ["Conveniently Moved To "No Reply" Section]
Renaming "Shop" NPCs 3rd Topic
No @Autotrade Or Western Union
"No Skills In Prontera" Suggestion; Never Answered
Market Place Thread
Another Person Requesting A Market Place
Lack Of Online GMs & Tons Of Bots; Wicca Agrees With Players
90mil For One Orlean's Glove [1]
Overpriced +7 Boned Infiltrator [1] (That Actually Isn't Overpriced)
Question Forum
Speed Calculation Bug #1; Ridiculous "No Reply" S&H Section
Speed Calculation Bug #2; Ridiculous "No Reply" S&H Section
Speed Calculation Bug #3; Ridiculous "No Reply" S&H Section

Sources From RMS:

LimitRO RMS Page; Lai Changes Rates As Often As He Changes Socks?
LimitRO Player Review
Screenshot Of Lai's HR
LimitRO Player Review2

That's all. First Impression Rating? 9/10; The Real Rating: 2/10

[Edit]

I have new information to support my review:

Convex Mirror is now available at 10pts; you obtain 12pts a day, thus 8 Convex Mirrors a week per person with some points left over. MVP Cards already drop ridiculously high (.25%)! We don't need 600+ people to have 8 Convex Mirrors a week!

More images of messed up economy: Zerom Card @ 15mil; Real Price is 6-8mil; ClockTower Manager Card @ 30mil; ClockTower Manager & Turtle General Cards @ 60mil and 1bil respectively; Ulle's Cap @ 15mil.

Some other things that I didn't take screenies of is +8 Orlean's Server [1] @ 100mil; Garm Baby Card @ 100mil; ClockTower Manager Card at 100mil; and +9 Tidal's Shoes [1] @ 280mil. The card prices change like one changes his socks. Seriously.

I swear to God that Lai is it in for the cash; he puts Convex Mirror on voting very low in order to obtain a blast of votes and gain more donators for his "kRO" +5 To Every Stat hats.

And I didn't blotch out my name in those screenies; I don't play anymore :\ So I frankly don't care.

Thanks for reading ^^

[GorthexTiger]

Great review, very well documented and you've prooved your point extremely well...

Honestly, with all the documented stuff here on Lai, isn't it about time he get grouped up on that GM Hall of Shame List yet?

On a sidenote:

Can't Gravity sue his donkey because, if you look @ the donation page, they created the Rogue scarf, and he's charging 10 (insert currency here) in order to obtain it, isn't that like, a violation of their stuff or he's making money of their own created stuff?

Just a thought.

[Usagimimi]

But don't they all make money off of Gravity in general xD

Editted with more content :p

[Nish]

Lai again heh... No need to comment.

Nice review btw.. was a good read and yeah I won't be playing there anytime soon.

The economy is horrible from the looks of it and what? you need to donate to get @autotrade lol.

This guy is clearly out to make alot of money from this and it seems like it's working.. such a shame.

[Annihilate]

Con - Pro > 0


D:


*runs away*

[Usagimimi]

Thanks ^^ It took me 1.25h to get all the screenies and stuff together.

Hopefully a lot of people read this and stay away.

[PETER09]

This guy is clearly out to make alot of money from this and it seems like it's working.. such a shame.

Most, if not all people intend on making money when creating an RO server. The people who say they make an RO server just for fun and friends, they are either loaded and lonely or just really lonely.

Eventually the non-loaded server owners will want money because hosting for long periods of time doesn't come cheap.

As for the review: tl;dr. Looking at the first few responses it seems thorough. I don't need another RO server to play though 

[mickiedeez]

Hi ^^ I'm going to review LimitRO Mid-Rate Server; their website can be found here. I've played on LimitRO for two weeks now; I've done 100+ posts on the forum within this time and I've been in-game more than 82h (no AFK). I'll let note now that I've seen some things that I agree but in general, the server needs a major "think over". I'll divide this up into parts and then mention "Pros" and "Cons". Do bare with me.

Stability

LimitRO has a bit of a server issue when regarding lag. Sometimes the server will "jam" and you won't be able to click anything. Your character will get stuck and if you're mobbing, you can expect to be dead when it "unjams". The major lag occurs when you're mobbing 8+ monsters on an unpopulated map. In towns, Prontera is ridiculously laggy and, although we've suggested ways to reduce this lag, the Administrator has opposed all suggestions.

On another note, a lot of people have had "freak disconnections", in which, for no apparent reason, one will be disconnected while everyone else stays online. I was playing with a friend of mine and I was disconnected. When I messaged him on MSN, he told me he was still in-game. The next day, the same thing occured to said friend, even though we both have 7mbps+ wired Internet connections. When we asked about these "freak disconnections" on the forum, we had no reply.

I've never seen LimitRO have a downtime; do note that I've only been here two weeks, though.

The website is having issues, too. It's extremely slow sometimes; it even Times Out a lot. They really need to change their host.

The Community

The community seems great other than the random people who will PM you calling you a loser for no reason. I made some friends; no one seems really racist towards others unless you're Spanish / Pinoy. If you speak Spanish, prepare for the traditional "Speak English" line that will pop out of some ignorant person's mouth.

There are also a lot of KSers and contrary to the Administrator's belief, there are bots crawling everywhere; there aren't any in-game GMs to ban them, though.

The Economy

The economy is 90% terrible. Orlean's Glove [1] is 70mil+ (it can reach 120mil for one at an auction); Oridecon and Elunium are 50k each; Ulle's Cap is 35-50mil; Burning Bow, EDP, and Nightmare Card are all overpriced among other cards (Turtle General at 1bil when it's a .25% drop and useless now due to the description change; it's worth perhaps 200mil now). The funny thing is, the guy next to the Overpriced guy is selling Burning Bow for 100k, EDP for 150k, and Orlean's Glove [1] for 40mil! It's hilarious. The community is seriously dense on the value of things; take for instance, a +7 Boned Infiltrator at 80mil. This is an extremely good price! It drops at .25%, it has a 20% chance of becoming slotted, and it was refined to +7! But apparently 80mil is "overpriced".

People will seriously try to rip you off as well. I was selling Oridecon [Pure] for 18k - severenly underpriced for LimitRO standards but an acceptable price in my eyes - and someone tried to get me to sell it to them at 14k, saying: "Give me a discount". I was giving him a 32k discount already and he demands even more! He even persisted, trying to get me to sell it for 14k, but I declined, simply saying that I can easily get 18k for my Oridecon.

The Game Masters

There are no Game Masters in-game (unfortunate since the population is 400+) but they are on the forums a lot. Wicca and Falcon appear to be reasonable; when they know that a player is right and the Administrator is wrong, they will say it. An example of this is in the topic suggesting that there be in-game GMs. Wicca agrees with a player, unlike Lai, that there are bots in-game, and that Lai being so sure of himself isn't good.

Lai is not a GM who offers convenience to his players. He's a dictator; he's self-absorbed. If he doesn't want something done, he won't do it. He has even gone as far as to make the Help & Support Section a No-Reply Section. Why? Because he doesn't want anyone to oppose his decisions. He closes topics abruptly and forces people to create new topics for the same problem / an unfinished issue. Here are two more examples of the same issue: Example 1; Example 2. We can't even respond that we're still having trouble; we have to make a new topic and wait for Lai and solely Lai to reply. If someone knows the answer, we're screwed until Lai comes around and says the exact same thing.

Lai is also harsh with questions. He's unfriendly and won't do anything that he doesn't like, even if the vote was 1000 to 1. He insists on his opinions and doesn't offer arguments; he indirectly tells us that our suggestions / opinions are nothing, and his is the "Ultimate" one because he's the admin. He also insists that some things are like they are because LimitRO is supposed to be a "kRO inspiration". He says Dual-Clienting isn't in kRO so it's not allowed; however, I don't remember kRO having hats that give +5 to all stats, including DEF and MDEF. His arguments never hold any ground and he's completely ignoring the wishes of his players.

Lai doesn't even follow his own rules! He posts this and therefore breaks this rule. What good is an admin who can't even follow his own rules (but has no problem punishing others for doing the same thing)? Administrators aren't exempted from following the rules; sorry, but that's not how it works.

Therefore, the main GM = fail.

*Pros & Cons Section*

All right, now that you've heard all of the above, I will display the Pros & Cons of LimitRO based on my opinion. Here we go.

Pros

- Automated Events
- 3rd Job Class
- Interesting War of Emperium
- Decent Player vs Player
- International Community
- Item "Mall" (In Prontera)
- You "Feel" That There Actually Is 400+ Online
- Generally Friendly Community

Cons

- Terrible Administrator
- Terrible Economy
- Community Is Full Of Griefers / Kill Stealers
- GMs Are Never Online To Enforce Rules
- Help & Support Section Is "No Reply"
- No Events (Aside Automated Events)
- "Mall" NPCs Are All Named "Shop"; You Can't Really Tell Who Sells What
- History Of Wipes (Admin Owned An HR Before That Wiped 3 Times)
- @Autotrade is a 15$CAD Per Month Command
- Warpra Is 2500Z Each Time
- Administrator Makes Changes Without Consulting The Community
- Dual-Clienting Is Disabled
- Hideous Lag When Mobbing / In Prontera (Server "Jams" Frequently)
- Shops Litter The Streets; A Market Place Idea (Although Wanted By The Community) Was Thrown Away By Admin
- Minimal Hairstyles & Palettes For Non-Donators
- Lack Of Donating Options (No Western Union; This Idea Was Also Thrown Away By Admin)
- Expensive Donations In General
- Administrator Treats Himself Like A God
- No Player Respect From Administrator
- Endless Unfixed Bugs
- Administrator Lacks Consideration Towards Players
- NPCs In Prontera, Aldebaran, Geffen, etc. Are Badly Organized
- Refiners Do Not Have "Refine To This Level" Option
- Terrible Host; The Main Site & Forums Take 5min+ To Open Sometimes

This server lives up to its name - LimitRO - and it's apparent why.

Lai also mentioned he had problems with RMS and didn't want to put LimitRO on their site. Not only is he pretty much banned from it but he's had some God awful reviews before my own as well.

*Sources*

LimitRO Forums; you need to be registered to see:

Zero Spam Rule
Suggestion Forum
Renaming "Shop" NPCs [Closed Now]
Renaming "Shop" NPCs ["Conveniently Moved To "No Reply" Section]
Renaming "Shop" NPCs 3rd Topic
No @Autotrade Or Western Union
"No Skills In Prontera" Suggestion; Never Answered
Market Place Thread
Another Person Requesting A Market Place
Lack Of Online GMs & Tons Of Bots; Wicca Agrees With Players
90mil For One Orlean's Glove [1]
Overpriced +7 Boned Infiltrator [1] (That Actually Isn't Overpriced)
Question Forum
Speed Calculation Bug #1; Ridiculous "No Reply" S&H Section
Speed Calculation Bug #2; Ridiculous "No Reply" S&H Section
Speed Calculation Bug #3; Ridiculous "No Reply" S&H Section

Sources From RMS:

LimitRO RMS Page; Lai Changes Rates As Often As He Changes Socks?
LimitRO Player Review
Screenshot Of Lai's HR

That's all. First Impression Rating? 9/10; The Real Rating: 2/10

[Edit]

I have new information to support my review:

Convex Mirror is now available at 10pts; you obtain 12pts a day, thus 8 Convex Mirrors a week per person with some points left over. MVP Cards already drop ridiculously high (.25%)! We don't need 600+ people to have 8 Convex Mirrors a week!

More images of messed up economy: Zerom Card @ 15mil; Real Price is 6-8mil; ClockTower Manager Card @ 30mil; ClockTower Manager & Turtle General Cards @ 30mil and 1bil respectively; Ulle's Cap @ 15mil.

Some other things that I didn't take screenies of is +8 Orlean's Server [1] @ 100mil; Garm Baby Card @ 100mil; ClockTower Manager Card at 100mil; and +9 Tidal's Shoes [1] @ 280mil. The card prices change like one changes his socks. Seriously.

I swear to God that Lai is it in for the cash; he puts Convex Mirror on voting very low in order to obtain a blast of votes and gain more donators for his "kRO" +5 To Every Stat hats.

And I didn't blotch out my name in those screenies; I don't play anymore :\ So I frankly don't care.

Thanks for reading ^^

TL;DR version:  I am but hurt for being called a loser right after pvp.  I am but hurt for people saying i overprice stuff.  I swear at my God.  GMs are corrupt because the server has donation items.  Im to lazy to farm zeny and buy these 'overpriced' items so i QQ about them.

[Usagimimi]

Actually, I never PVP'd on this server, thanks. That person who PM'd me did it randomly while I was standing in Prontera. I've never sold anything but Oridecon and I underpriced it at 18k instead of the usual 30-50k. No idea what the reference with God is compared to my review. The Admin already had a terrible reputation before I wrote this review; my experience and his attitude confirms it. As for farming zeny, I would farm 13mil+ a day and could afford these items, but the fact remains that the community abuses with the prices.

So yeah, you don't know what the Hell you're talking about. Why not just edit out your post? It just makes you look like an idiot ^^

And just so you know, your precious Akinari made JustRO / ItsRO because Lai was a jackass. I don't know if you play there anymore after the wipes, but I do believe Lai's behaviour is the reason you got your +10 Quadruple Zipper Bear Card Orcish Axe [4], etc. etc.

If you want a small version, than I can give you guys one:

- Admin is terrible
- Economy is terrible
- Community = 90% KSers & Griefers
- Frequent lag & disconnections
- Donations go into admin's pocket
- Donations are unfair
- Lack of rule enforcement
- Stability & Host = Terrible

Basically, a "Slapped Together" server, even with third jobs and whatnaught.

[Gankz]

disregard him, he's just a troll.

I do have to agree, I suggested several things on limit and even talked to Lai over MSN about it, and he shot down every idea saying "this is how I made it, this is how it shall be". He also said that limit isn't "just another server", it strives to be IT'S OWN GAME

Sigh, such a promising server too, but Lai is a **** and everyone knows it.

[mickiedeez]

That person who PM'd me did it randomly while I was standing in Prontera

Proof Plz.

It just makes you look like an idiot

Please do not Flame.

Akinari made JustRO / ItsRO because Lai was a jackass

JustRO(previously GoldRO) was created before Limit.

but I do believe Lai's behaviour is the reason you got your +10 Quadruple Zipper Bear Card Orcish Axe [4], etc. etc.

If you are implying I was given this item, then you are sorely mistaken. I farmed the cards and bought +7 Orcish axes and refined them until I had a +10. I do recall an event by a retarded GM hired from these forums in which my Axe was lost due to both her ignorance and my own, though.

So yeah, you don't know what the Hell you're talking about.

Uhm.  yes I do.  I am referring to your review.(<-derderderrr?)

- Donations go into admin's pocket

Proof Plz.

No idea what the reference with God is compared to my review.

Re-read your post.

[Akinari]

Please don't drag me into this.  We've all made our own mistakes and right now I'm trying to get back up on my feet right now.  This topic has nothing to do with me.  I didn't create any server because of Lai, I went and joined the GoldenRO staff because of him.  After that admin left because I was a jackass to him (I'll admit it), I turned it into JustRO then after my emo period which I'm trying to recover from, the server got renamed to Its-RO.

Again, please don't bring me up in arguments/debates that have nothing to do with me.  That was going on 2 years ago now and people can change in 2 years, but knowing Lai he probably never will.

[Usagimimi]

Post

So technically, if Lai was a good guy, JustRO wouldn't have ever been made.

But I won't bring ya up again, Akinari :p Sorry.

I'm'a just skip Mickie's posts now and perhaps everyone else will do the same lol! Who wants to waste their time anyway?

[Dove]

So basically, he hasn't changed at all since his HR, despite (once again) all of his promises and apologies.

Nice review. I'm amazed people even bother with the server still.

And haha, I see one of Ryan's old screenies up there. He'll be pleased.

[Natigaro]

Hahaha!  That soul linker is ME!!  xD!!  This review is amazing, well thought out, thorough, and pretty much the exact conclusion I came to over a year ago.  I haven't played since the second wipe (yes, I tried to tolerate the first wipe) when the server first switched to a lower/mid rate server, so I can't speak from experience.  However, judging by what you've said in this review and from what I've experienced myself, I believe you entirely that this is exactly how things are. It both pleases and irks me to see that things have not changed (pleases because it means I was correct, irks because sometimes I really wish I wasn't right). I feel terribly bad for the unfortunate souls who have been sucked so deeply into addiction that they cannot see that perhaps things would be better if they left that server forever.  It took me a good two years before I could leave, but man am I glad I did.   More power to you!  Keep fighting the good fight!

-Ryan

[Annihilate]

I just noticed. Something as basic as @autotrade is a donation reward? I am sorry, but that iS EFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFIn CRAZY/

[Usagimimi]

I just noticed. Something as basic as @autotrade is a donation reward? I am sorry, but that iS EFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFIn CRAZY/

+1

Lai says it's to make people "play" more so his server doesn't look 100% autotrades. He still has 30+ vending at all times, a bunch of AFKers, a bunch of bots... I just think he's after the cash, hence the donation system (+5 to all stats and all Defenses? Wtf!)

[mickiedeez]

wut
Posted on: Oct 30, 2009, 10:33 am

I'm'a just be ignorant nao LUK IM IGNERINT

Fixed.  Quoted.

[Usagimimi]

wut
Posted on: Oct 30, 2009, 10:33 am

I'm'a just be ignorant nao LUK IM IGNERINT

Fixed.  Quoted.

Rofl :< That's right; be jealous of my linguistic skills nub.

[Final]

lol I guess people are right about this server then,  In almost every server I go to I hear how bad they are hahahaha.

[XxobZenxX]

I'm not sure if anyone who plays limit RO knows this but someone bugged the game and the website with meatspin.  I swear I'm not making this up

[Usagimimi]

Yeah, I verified that; it made my day. He deserves it.

[Final]

Omg no one deserves to have to see that.  I feel bad for you all. lol

[Usagimimi]

Omg no one deserves to have to see that.  I feel bad for you all. lol

lol already saw it enough because my dad likes to play jokes on me >_< among other Shock Sites. Nothing new.

[Final]

O...M...G...I feel bad for you hahaha.  Then again..This really makes me laugh hm...so many mixed feelings...I just can't help but laugh at this haha.