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Offline Navarion

Re: FeelRO
« Reply #30 on: Apr 10, 2009, 05:13 PM »
Constantly saying excuses like "oh you probably never put a warning on it, you just did it 2 days ago coz we used your art. you prolly did that etc etc" Seriously the GM team needs to grow up.
You know, that you lost all the respect of the community? I mean, even this is just made up by you. It was not a GM who said something like this, it was a member. I guess, it's not so hard to seperate those two groups. You should definitely calm down.


Any server with any decent GM / Admins would respond properly to an email instead of saying "oh i dont see your watermark all over this image" and linking me back to my own website. 
I don't know if they would. Why did you make this public? I would have understood it, if you had been waiting for a response on a PRIVATE email for like one week. But, and the politeness of your post in feelro forums doesn't count, making such things public and insulting gm's is not the right way.

I know, that we have our super-dumb forum trolls, but why did you react on their insults? Everybody, who played some time on feelro, knows that it's best to ignore them. You just kept arguing over and over.

Tbh, I wanted to support you in the beginning, really. I also though it was reasonable, that you didn't want your artwork published on feelro's site, since you got insulted that much on the forums. But this throwing with mud, making bad advertisment and spreading it all over the places, without people really knowing the background, I just feel disgusted.
You want your art to be appreciated and not treated like dirt. How can art be great if the artist himself (or herself) went down to such a low level? For me art always represented the thoughts of the artist. I don't know about you. I mean, if you wouldn't be that immature, you would have waited what Alara is saying, or maybe asked for direct conversations ingame or on msn and not making threads on differents sites to hurt feelro. There are people who spend their money to help the server! With making the server bad (aww.. my English sucks) you hurt every player on it, who is having fun. Just check your first post here. It's kinda provocating -.-

No, the head GM as well as another GM never replied to me anymore and simply in simple words said they have no reason to remove my art and give me credit, so tell me why i cant get mad at that, and now they're trying to make it seem like they were resolving the issue. please. GM might kept defending his designer and simply they did not want it removed.

WTF?? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Might (head gm) offered you to GIVE YOU CREDIT and you simply rejected (which I understand, mentioned above). BUT WHY ON EARTH DO YOU LIE NOW AND SAY HE NEVER OFFERED YOU CREDITS?? THIS MAKES ME REALLY UPSET

Trying to dragg some members to another server with blingbling stuff and 1000x custom headgears? Most people are playing feelro because there are NO cute wings, NO cute blabla gear and NO weird looking custom stuff.

In addition, feelro is changing a lot, since we got some new gms. One, GM Celestia, just re-opened a helper guild, with suitible players, who have some ro-experience. Some other stuff, mostly from GM Aerandil, i being implemented by Alara.

Giving a bad review and not mentioning, that the server is experiencing a change, is so damn low, that i can't even describe it with words. Like many others, who first supported you, I lost all of my respect.

So anybody who is interested in joining FeelRO and is concerned about this affair (which includes b**** about 3 pictures and a mudfight in the end, caused by stupid forum trolls and the artist) should read the WHOLE thread (http://forum.feelro.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=13667) editing the stealing words doesn't help. Expecially in such a discussion, editing doesn't help your legitimacy.

If you're wondering, why my emotions changed sometimes, I inserted parts and changed this post quite a few times.

But anyways, try not to sink far too low girl.. You're nearly on the ground anyways. I simply can't understand your intentions.. really

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Offline Might_FeelRO

Re: FeelRO
« Reply #31 on: Apr 10, 2009, 06:31 PM »
Hello, my name is Might and i am the founder of FeelRO. I assumed it would be fair if the story was told also from my point of view.

One day a thread called "Stolen Artwork on FeelRO" appeared in our forums. The author stated we used her art in our login screen layout and on the site and demanded those pictures to be taken off, since we had no permission to use them. I asked our designer (Alara) about the origin of those pictures. She said they came from some fan art site and since there were no signatures or watermarks on them - she used them as a part of the layout. (I must say the site as well as the login screen were created 1.5 years ago, so its no wonder she couldnt remember exactly where did those pictures come from.) So it appeared we had a problem. Willing to solve this nicely, in a way it would be good for everybody - i suggested that we create a Credits page on the site and put Chex's name in it. She refused. I decided to talk to Alara once again to work out some other solution, possibly - to remove those pictures. It took me about 3 or 4 hours - can't remember exactly - to reach Alara: she wasnt at home. When i came back to the topic to continue the discussion, i have found there a lot of things that stopped me from meeting Chex's wishes. Here i will give you some quotes from different resources.

First of all, I saw a lot of lies written by Chex in our forum. For example:

Quote
Alara actually edited the image, removed my signature and copyrighted it as hers


This picture was taken from:
http://princesschex.deviantart.com/art/063007-Animated-Stalker-58760447
Wherem as you can clearly see there is no signature. And you won't find any Alara's copyrights on these pictures as well as anywhere on our website.

Secondly i found this journal entry, where our designer was obviously insulted. All these sentences were written before the discussion was ended. It was still in progress, but it didnt stop Chex from complaining at all possible resources she could find, calling us thieves, giving out our e-mails for other people to spam us, etc.

Quote
This "designer" called GM Alara was editing my works
Lies.
Quote
I've just been informed they also use custom sprites that are not made by their designer however on the site it is stated she is the custom spriter and they defended saying she only does custom sprites and map. Now this. So sad. Seems to me like they really do promote art theft there.
Lies.
Quote
they say "IT TAKES SO MUCH TIME AND WORK TO CHANGE THOSE IMAGES"
Lies. Nobody among server administration never said such a thing.

And so on and son. Finally, i got messages from several players. It appeared that while i was holding talks with Alara trying to find a suitable solution to make both us and the author happy - Chex didnt waste her time, sending personal messages to our members, advertising her own server.

Quote
I noticed the GMs blocked the name of the server I'm from. Maybe to hide the fact that my art could be from there. i dunno. I noticed this server is very out to date, dunno if you have 3-1 classes and the GMs are never really on. Too many immature people on this server too. If you're interested in joining a server where GMs are on everyday and we have everything more advanced and where people give value to all RO artists with so many ongoing art contests i suggest you check out my server.I really laughed how very outdated this server is, I just wanted to offer you a server where you can rely on GMs, and this servers been on for 2 years or so?I'm pretty sure any player would like it. I used to play iRO and this was the first private server i'd ever consider

http://*******RO.com/

p.s. this is a server you wouldn't regret donating to. everything is under control and GMs really do well compared to here. i wont get any profit from this, just offering you a more respectable place to play.

i just feel bad for people playing here. so many rude people and GMs are never on.

After i saw that, she was immidiately ip-banned according to

FeelRO Forum Rules
(10. Do NOT make advertisement for other private servers, even in PM's! )
and
FeelRO Server Rules
(Do not advertise other servers
Punishment for advertising is a permanent ban and an IP ban.)

And seeing this kind of attitude, taking into consideration that the author
  • Insulted the GM
  • Told lies about the GM
  • Juggled with facts
  • Flamed us on different resources even before the discussion was over
  • Spammed our members with other server's advertisement

...we decided not to meet the wishes of Chex.

Thank you for your attention.

Descent

  • Guest
Re: FeelRO
« Reply #32 on: Apr 10, 2009, 07:18 PM »

And so on and son. Finally, i got messages from several players. It appeared that while i was holding talks with Alara trying to find a suitable solution to make both us and the author happy - Chex didnt waste her time, sending personal messages to our members, advertising her own server.

Quote
I noticed the GMs blocked the name of the server I'm from. Maybe to hide the fact that my art could be from there. i dunno. I noticed this server is very out to date, dunno if you have 3-1 classes and the GMs are never really on. Too many immature people on this server too. If you're interested in joining a server where GMs are on everyday and we have everything more advanced and where people give value to all RO artists with so many ongoing art contests i suggest you check out my server.I really laughed how very outdated this server is, I just wanted to offer you a server where you can rely on GMs, and this servers been on for 2 years or so?I'm pretty sure any player would like it. I used to play iRO and this was the first private server i'd ever consider

http://*******RO.com/

p.s. this is a server you wouldn't regret donating to. everything is under control and GMs really do well compared to here. i wont get any profit from this, just offering you a more respectable place to play.

i just feel bad for people playing here. so many rude people and GMs are never on.

After i saw that, she was immidiately ip-banned according to

FeelRO Forum Rules
(10. Do NOT make advertisement for other private servers, even in PM's! )
and
FeelRO Server Rules
(Do not advertise other servers
Punishment for advertising is a permanent ban and an IP ban.)

And seeing this kind of attitude, taking into consideration that the author
  • Insulted the GM
  • Told lies about the GM
  • Juggled with facts
  • Flamed us on different resources even before the discussion was over
  • Spammed our members with other server's advertisement

...we decided not to meet the wishes of Chex.

Thank you for your attention.

A screenshot of that PM would be AWESOME. No sarcasm intended.

Chex, if it's true that you attempted to advertise EssenceRO over some artwork, I just lost every ounce of respect for you. And believe me when I say that you had quite a bit in my eyes until this.

Offline SilverStream~

Re: FeelRO
« Reply #33 on: Apr 10, 2009, 07:34 PM »
Wether she did all that or not;


She still holds the rights to that image/images which are in use by FeelRO.


This we can check by looking at the date which the image was posted on Chexie's DeviantArt account.
This is taken directly from here:

Details
Submitted: June 30, 2007



FeelRO is(according to their site):

 1 year 3 months and 1 day.



I find no other recordings of this image that are earlier then what Chexie has her DA profile.



If she doesn't want her artwork on your site, and you have not asked her, or given her notice(which is basicly the same thing), you will have to take the image/images down.
She holds the copyright, you have not asked for her permission. Gm Might, you are doing something illegal and she calls you out on it you will have to react. And you do not do so by continuing to having those images on your site.
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Offline Might_FeelRO

Re: FeelRO
« Reply #34 on: Apr 10, 2009, 07:38 PM »
A screenshot of that PM would be AWESOME. No sarcasm intended.

Chex, if it's true that you attempted to advertise EssenceRO over some artwork, I just lost every ounce of respect for you. And believe me when I say that you had quite a bit in my eyes until this.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2uqfxfr.jpg

Offline SilverStream~

Re: FeelRO
« Reply #35 on: Apr 10, 2009, 07:44 PM »
Also, this is taken from Copyclaim



"By entering the security code, you declare that you posses the copyrights for the file right now (related to the description above) and accept our privacy statement."





Did Alara posses the rights to the images she was about to copyright, or in the case of Might doing the copyright registration, were you aware that the image(s) were not rightfully yours?


When making such an entry like this in a public website where anyone can register anything, it is important to know that you must have and posses the rights to whatever your are about to register before you enter it.

Which means wether you try to register web designs, wallpapers, loading screens, sprites, or other stuff you need to own them before "copyrighting" them. The copyright registration is only a way of saying "Hi these are my pictures". It is not a way of claiming ownership.
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Descent

  • Guest
Re: FeelRO
« Reply #36 on: Apr 10, 2009, 07:45 PM »
Wether she did all that or not;
She still holds the rights to that image/images which are in use by FeelRO.


This we can check by looking at the date which the image was posted on Chexie's DeviantArt account.
This is taken directly from here:

Details
Submitted: June 30, 2007

FeelRO is(according to their site):

1 year 3 months and 1 day.

I find no other recordings of this image that are earlier then what Chexie has her DA profile.

If she doesn't want her artwork on your site, and you have not asked her, or given her notice(which is basicly the same thing), you will have to take the image/images down.
She holds the copyright, you have not asked for her permission. Gm Might, you are doing something illegal and she calls you out on it you will have to react. And you do not do so by continuing to having those images on your site.

Don't misunderstand me. I never said FeelRO was right. Nor am I siding with PrincessChex. Want to know why?

Because when you put things on the Internet, nine times out of ten, it WILL get stolen. It's a sad reality, but in the end, it is an equal fault. The only way to truly protect your art is to NOT POST IT.

Might, your server's staff is also in the wrong. Regardless of what condition her art was in(watermarked or not, signed or not), what happened shouldn't have. Nor can there be an argument when she CLEARLY HAS HER ART RIGHT THERE. A lot of drama can be avoided if you just take the goddamn things down.

Finally, PrincessChex herself. I have officially lost any ounce of respect I had for you and your work. What you did was sneaky and underhanded, and shows all the maturity of a five year old who doesn't get their way, and then attempted to direct their players to your server of choice, instead of being the bigger person and just focusing on resolving the issue, you have now lowered yourself to a status that equals that of the idiotic spammers you see in the "Hall of Shame". Good show.

Offline SilverStream~

Re: FeelRO
« Reply #37 on: Apr 10, 2009, 07:54 PM »
Decent stop being a d***. Seriously.



On a lighter note; I didn't aim my post at your post, you posted before me and I didn't change what I posted. Didn't bother.


If this goes to the hall of shame it will be feelro and the gm team there that is in the spotlight. Chex did what she could as a "counter-offensive" because she was ignored, treated wrong and had something stolen from her.
To me it looks as though she must have been furious, and reacted thusly.
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Offline Might_FeelRO

Re: FeelRO
« Reply #38 on: Apr 10, 2009, 08:02 PM »
Also, this is taken from Copyclaim
"By entering the security code, you declare that you posses the copyrights for the file right now (related to the description above) and accept our privacy statement."
Did Alara posses the rights to the images she was about to copyright, or in the case of Might doing the copyright registration, were you aware that the image(s) were not rightfully yours?
Copyclaim allows you to register anything partially. At copyclaim we registered only the items we made ourselves: custom donation gears, custom maps, custom images, etc. Everything that was actually made/painted by us personally. We didnt register every_picture_you_see_here or something like that. Nor we never said we didnt use fan art.

Might, your server's staff is also in the wrong. Regardless of what condition her art was in(watermarked or not, signed or not), what happened shouldn't have. Nor can there be an argument when she CLEARLY HAS HER ART RIGHT THERE. A lot of drama can be avoided if you just take the goddamn things down.
Alara had a fan art collection, probably like every artist does. She wouldnt go through stealing someone's pictures, if she'd knew they're copyrighted. Those pictures arent really that good. But those pictures were present in her collection, werent watermarked, werent signed, so she decided to use this fan art as a part of the layout. Then, after 1.5 years a person appears, who brakes every rule possible, insult us, lie and spread rumors about us, etc. And we need to be nice and meet her demands?

Descent

  • Guest
Re: FeelRO
« Reply #39 on: Apr 10, 2009, 08:06 PM »
Decent stop being a d***. Seriously.

I'm sorry, you are...? Oh, and it's Descent. There's an S. Please don't forget it.

Quote
On a lighter note; I didn't aim my post at your post, you posted before me and I didn't change what I posted. Didn't bother.

It seemed as such, which is why I said to not misunderstand me. I'm not taking sides on this issue.

Quote
If this goes to the hall of shame it will be feelro and the gm team there that is in the spotlight. Chex did what she could as a "counter-offensive" because she was ignored, treated wrong and had something stolen from her.
To me it looks as though she must have been furious, and reacted thusly.

WHOA. Hit the brakes. So, by your logic, it's perfectly fine to advertise another server when you're mad.

That's pretty sh*tty. In fact, it's worse than that, but for the sake of "being nice", I won't elaborate.

I don't care how she was treated. She's not a 10 year old, she's actually close to my age. You'd expect her to react in a bit more mature of a manner, but nahhhhhhh.

Don't attempt to pull a pity party for her, by pulling that stunt on Feel's forums, she's now just as wrong as they are.

EDIT ---

Might, are you serious? This all could have been avoided, regardless of the pathetic hissy-fit she pulled as a result.
« Last Edit: Apr 10, 2009, 08:08 PM by Descent »

Offline SilverStream~

Re: FeelRO
« Reply #40 on: Apr 10, 2009, 08:30 PM »
Might, every picture that is created, is automaticly and by the instant it is finished copyrighted the creator. It even says so in official copyright laws.

From both sides this could have been done in a better way. You when recieving the email from Chex could have asked for proof or whatever, and read the date it was created/uploaded on. That right there would have proved it.


Descent, I did not say that it was okay for her to advertise for her server like that. It does not say that in my post. I said that because of the way she was treated, she acted. Never said it was "perfectly fine". Read better next time please.
For who I am, I am a previous member here, and have been reading rms longer then you. You don't know who you're talking to, and you don't need to find out either. For me you are a new place to put my foot on.

I am not trying to "pull a pity party". I am stating what is right and what is wrong, no matter who the two parties are. It could be two completely different people and I would still post what I have posted. If you are going to post "I just lost all respect for you" etc and blablabla, then please don't. I have no interest in that.

If she decides to do things to the feelro site that is wrong according to their rules that is fine by me. But that is not illegal. The artwork stealing is however.









Final line, I say it's best that Might takes down the images until further talk. That is how it is normaly done. No loopholes and sidetracking. Take them down until you talk to Chex in an orderly fashion. Since this is online you can do you via msn, aim basicly any instant messaging client as it is like talking to a person face to face. Emails give both sides alot of time to figure out how to turn the opposing person's words around and try and talk your way out of it.
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Descent

  • Guest
Re: FeelRO
« Reply #41 on: Apr 10, 2009, 08:34 PM »
Descent, I did not say that it was okay for her to advertise for her server like that. It does not say that in my post. I said that because of the way she was treated, she acted. Never said it was "perfectly fine". Read better next time please.
For who I am, I am a previous member here, and have been reading rms longer then you. You don't know who you're talking to, and you don't need to find out either. For me you are a new place to put my foot on.

Rofl. Oh please, by all means, play with me. Just to warn you, I wouldn't step on me if I were you, I've been told I have sharp edges.

You seemed to imply that it was perfectly fine because she was the victim. Therefore, I called you on it. If you're going to tell me to read better next time, the same can go for you in proof-reading your posts instead of turning around and twisting it to better suit your argument.

I don't know who I'm talking to? Same could go for you, my dear.

(click to show/hide)

I honestly don't care what YOU have any interest in. To me, you're just a faceless nobody like 90% of RMS.

Offline Symbiote

Re: FeelRO
« Reply #42 on: Apr 10, 2009, 08:37 PM »
As I said:

Now, don't get me wrong. I don't like Chexie

And, her little attempt to advertise Essence only boosts that aspect. However, I still believe that her artwork should be removed. As well as her be permanently banned from FeelRO, seeing how she handled things. (Seems to have already occured, which is nice, however, the art does need to be removed if it hasn't already. Her idiocy doesn't change the fact that the server lacks the permission.)

I'd suggest Alara provide the website she claims to have found the edited works that she "stumbled upon" while "already edited." You have to realize that it's one person's word against another's accusations. Those aren't very good odds for either side, considering the lack of power Chexie has to find out otherwise, and the position that Alara is in. Potentially ruining your reputation, or lying? Hard choice!

Edit:

Also, if you stated that the art was taken from here by Alara, wouldn't that mean that she had to have edited it? Which would mean this:


This picture was taken from:
http://princesschex.deviantart.com/art/063007-Animated-Stalker-58760447
Wherem as you can clearly see there is no signature. And you won't find any Alara's copyrights on these pictures as well as anywhere on our website.

Quote
This "designer" called GM Alara was editing my works
Lies.

is off, a bit? There's also a Copyright claim and a request not to use without permission in the image description. Not sure if Chexie just recently added that, as in after this thread was created, but it's there. Plain as day.
« Last Edit: Apr 10, 2009, 08:41 PM by Symbiote »

[Šŷmβĭö†ė] - "There is nothing in this world to believe in."

Descent

  • Guest
Re: FeelRO
« Reply #43 on: Apr 10, 2009, 08:39 PM »
I'd also like to repeat one more time...

I AM NOT TAKING SIDES ON THIS.

Personally, if somebody were to ask me to remove artwork that I didn't know was from their site, I'd just do it and avoid the drama. Even though I think this "Instant Copyright" is sh*te and is pretty much being pulled out of somebody's backside.

Might, you might as well, as owner of the server, just do the right thing before this gets dragged on any further.

Offline SilverStream~

Re: FeelRO
« Reply #44 on: Apr 10, 2009, 08:47 PM »
No if you make something(art), from your own head, your own creativity and your own hands; it is yours from the moment it is finished. Meaning you have copyright on whatever it is you made.

This does not apply if you have copied someone's work.




Example;

If you are at a convention and the crew leader asks you to make a vignette for your crew's stand. You would make the vignette and finish it as fast as you can. The moment you finish it, you hold copyright to that vignette.
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