RMS Home | Guide Writing | Test Server | New Servers | Latest Reviews

Author Topic: Would there be a demand for Custom server like this  (Read 6294 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lioran

Would there be a demand for Custom server like this
« on: Jun 01, 2018, 06:28 PM »
I always thought it would be nice to rework Pre-renewal in a way that doesn't change the core mechanic of the game and revamp most of the areas.
For this it would requires an extensive knowledge of every class and game mechanic which I have built over the years.
I'm sure these kinda of server exist but i highly doubt that much thought goes into them(personnaly not seen any). Considering the amount of people I meet that have comparable amount of knowledge. Server owners just seem to throw random stuff together and not really think about the overall picture.

I'd like to see a server based around Theory crafting kinda like the path RO was going a few updates before renewal was a thing.
I'd personnaly revamp most of the areas to make them more enjoyable, Make the first class part more enjoyable with actual Boss for low lvl that give decent exp.
an exp system like renewal has. Revamp stuff like Blacksmith forging. Rework most of the boss get rid of easy boss like phree make boss not super hard but so they require
some coordination. Maybe even go as far as to have a progression system for updates.
Maybe change the behavior of some skills such as provoke to actually have some Agro effect on boss so pure melee DPS can actually participate in MVP since this
game basically forbide the use of melee class in parties unless its the tank and dps at the same time which I personally think is a flaw.

Also when you think about it tons of map are never really used by anyone other than to get to a certain destination.
Like take Clock tower for exemple. When is the last time you saw someone active on floor 1.
When is the last time you hunted clock tower manager. What if he was just a boss kind like Tendrillion is.


Or just all those MVP that people think, why would anyone hunt this boss it doesn't drop anything usefull for anyone.
And give a purpose to most drop from MVP. I see people often think some piece of equipment is useless but sometimes you can do amazing things
with those gears and it'd be nice to have some more of that(hence the theory crafting).

Game is already a big game and could feel much bigger by reworking tons of Areas and monsters without even adding any new areas.
There is just so much that can be done with what already exist to make it even more fun to play.

What do you guys think? Any server out there trying to accomplish that? I'd be willing to participate in that.

Advertisement

Offline Bue

Re: Would there be a demand for Custom server like this
« Reply #1 on: Jun 01, 2018, 11:33 PM »
You sound like Blinzer.  /heh

I think this idea is share by a lot of people, but no one has ever been able to do it. I have seen people consumed by the scope of their work (and ego), stuck at a roadblock in their skill set, overwhelmed by the technology stack, and so on ...

Are you working on a prototype?

Offline Lioran

Re: Would there be a demand for Custom server like this
« Reply #2 on: Jun 02, 2018, 01:25 AM »
You sound like Blinzer.  /heh

I think this idea is share by a lot of people, but no one has ever been able to do it. I have seen people consumed by the scope of their work (and ego), stuck at a roadblock in their skill set, overwhelmed by the technology stack, and so on ...

Are you working on a prototype?
I don't know who blinzer is.
I don't have any prototype but I have looked into it. Biggest worry I got is if I was to start working on this and end up having a dead server in the end. I have no idea how to advertise anything.
There is probably a way to work on this incrementally so you can have content being released overtime and judge interest at the same time.
I've worked on my own game before but i had to deal with making some art, designing rooms, programming, balancing and all the other stuff all alone. It was just impossible to do everything alone. Along with trying to get people interested in this random project without being an obnoxious guy that advertise his stuff randomly on forums and stuff. It just wasn't working.
So working on something like this would basically only be programming.
« Last Edit: Jun 02, 2018, 01:48 AM by Lioran »

Offline Bue

Re: Would there be a demand for Custom server like this
« Reply #3 on: Jun 02, 2018, 02:15 AM »
I have been working on a project for 8 years without ever releasing a stable build. There is always a risk of failure on a project. However, I do know that there is always a demand for servers with regular content updates and a dedicated team. I think as long as you can provide that, people will play on your server and donate.

I think your idea is doable as long as you don't go too far down the rabbit hole. With the right skill set, the only thing you have to risk is time (and money). If you can't do that, then I wouldn't recommend moving forward.


Offline Blinzer

Re: Would there be a demand for Custom server like this
« Reply #4 on: Jun 05, 2018, 02:02 PM »
yep. just sit back and relax bud, you don't have to lift an inch, big daddy blinzer has you covered. release date is the same day that kingdom hearts 3 comes out

BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!

(click to show/hide)

is that a fully functioning website? why yes, it is!!!

standard private servers have their days counted
« Last Edit: Jun 05, 2018, 02:19 PM by Blinzer »

Offline Lioran

Re: Would there be a demand for Custom server like this
« Reply #5 on: Jun 05, 2018, 09:05 PM »
Is there a place where i can look at the changes you've made to the game?
« Last Edit: Jun 05, 2018, 10:49 PM by Lioran »

Offline Lioran

Re: Would there be a demand for Custom server like this
« Reply #6 on: Jun 05, 2018, 10:42 PM »
NVM Found it on your discord and I have some criticism.
Personally I look at the changes and all i can think of is "This is just not RO anymore, it just looks like it". I fail to see how is this different than what renewal did. The original RO is good enough it just need a few adjustment, not a full scale redo.
Changing every mechanic of the game just remove the entire game and you end up with a different game that has the same aesthetic. Not sure I can get behind that. At the end of the day it's just making people relearn the game for the 3rd time. Even worse this is a private server so anything you learn only applies here so if the server close down, that's it.

Also some pretty Draconian mechanic you put in there.
Quote
Equipment will now automatically bind itself to your account when you equip it for the first time.
Correct me if i'm wrong but this applies to every equipment?(wasn't specified)
This is getting into Single player territory stuff at that point. You are basically destroying the item when you decide to use it. You are simply hunting for a ticket to get that effect unlocked on your account.
This is why progression exist. The only reason inflation exist is because private server are static. When they start, There is no more update from that point on and the system can only inflate even with a system like your server offers.

People need to stop trying to find solution to inflation. Every solution i've ever seen to try to fix it just make the game less enjoyable. If your server having unbend-able economy is more important than having a fun experience. You are doing it wrong. You want The best solution for your Economy? Seasonal restart with legacy server like Diablo 2 does. That's the only true solution. eRO did it and it worked (without the legacy server) until they got caught meddling with WOE.

I've only read a few things and to me it sounds like someone that didn't fully understand the RO mechanic trying to make his own so he knows that one fully instead of the original one but I could be wrong. Problem of RO is not the mechanic, its the way they were used by the original devs which to me also looked like they didn't fully understand it probably because the people hired were constantly shifting which happens often with these kind of long therm games.
« Last Edit: Jun 05, 2018, 10:48 PM by Lioran »

Offline Bue

Re: Would there be a demand for Custom server like this
« Reply #7 on: Jun 06, 2018, 01:18 AM »
The best solution for your Economy? Seasonal restart with legacy server like Diablo 2 does. That's the only true solution.

Fyi, you can easily kill a server by wiping it regularly.

Offline yennar

Re: Would there be a demand for Custom server like this
« Reply #8 on: Jun 06, 2018, 04:06 AM »
wrote too long, RMS logged me out, killed my post, so now i'm pissed

short summary then:

Even if mechanics are ok, RO is unbalanced. Pservers promote this with autoloot/alootid, warp, autoheal/sp/buff etc.
Endcontent is missing. On most pservers low/mid rate WoE just suxx. So other things are needed, but no one cares.
Give me a living world like in Guild Wars 2, or a 3-way-fraction System like in Aion for RO. Develop a DOTA System for RO. Heck, develop a good Survival Wave Event for RO. Anything new and innovative, not just the usual trash.

Economy suxx because players kill it with their mentality.
Zeny are only worth enchantments and some pots - get real value behind zeny and problems are fixed (or starting) or just kill zeny completely.


Tried Blinzers server 2 years ago, played dancer, lvling was frustrating.

FU automatic logout

Offline Blinzer

Re: Would there be a demand for Custom server like this
« Reply #9 on: Jun 06, 2018, 12:35 PM »
Quote
Tried Blinzers server 2 years ago, played dancer, lvling was frustrating.

2 years, LOL. could you use skills while dancing? if you couldn't, that means i didn't even begin working on bard/dancer at all and it was probably written in bold that the class sucked

i can't just thanos it and magically snap my fingers and make everything perfect, it takes time and a lot of thought to make the right changes to classes. dancer was one of the harder ones to figure out an identity for and it wasn't really until i decided to make skills usable and song buffs not persist for that long after you leave the AoE that i was able to open them up as a unique role in the game, and not just "song buff bot juggling every 15 seconds". support role nontheless, so thinking you would be god solo levelling would have been a mistake even now.


NVM Found it on your discord and I have some criticism.
Personally I look at the changes and all i can think of is "This is just not RO anymore, it just looks like it". I fail to see how is this different than what renewal did. The original RO is good enough it just need a few adjustment, not a full scale redo.
Changing every mechanic of the game just remove the entire game and you end up with a different game that has the same aesthetic. Not sure I can get behind that. At the end of the day it's just making people relearn the game for the 3rd time. Even worse this is a private server so anything you learn only applies here so if the server close down, that's it.

Also some pretty Draconian mechanic you put in there.Correct me if i'm wrong but this applies to every equipment?(wasn't specified)
This is getting into Single player territory stuff at that point. You are basically destroying the item when you decide to use it. You are simply hunting for a ticket to get that effect unlocked on your account.
This is why progression exist. The only reason inflation exist is because private server are static. When they start, There is no more update from that point on and the system can only inflate even with a system like your server offers.

People need to stop trying to find solution to inflation. Every solution i've ever seen to try to fix it just make the game less enjoyable. If your server having unbend-able economy is more important than having a fun experience. You are doing it wrong. You want The best solution for your Economy? Seasonal restart with legacy server like Diablo 2 does. That's the only true solution. eRO did it and it worked (without the legacy server) until they got caught meddling with WOE.

I've only read a few things and to me it sounds like someone that didn't fully understand the RO mechanic trying to make his own so he knows that one fully instead of the original one but I could be wrong. Problem of RO is not the mechanic, its the way they were used by the original devs which to me also looked like they didn't fully understand it probably because the people hired were constantly shifting which happens often with these kind of long therm games.

so you read a couple of the 2018 changes to a server that has been undergoing constant changes since 2014 and expect to understand why anything is being changed on the server at this point, without stepping foot in game a single time?  /no1

rElIaBlE sOuRcE oF cRiTiCiSm

you're talking air because you don't know how it works until you step into the game and play, i don't care how good you think you are at imagining what would happen ingame.
« Last Edit: Jun 06, 2018, 01:53 PM by Blinzer »

Offline yennar

Re: Would there be a demand for Custom server like this
« Reply #10 on: Jun 06, 2018, 01:12 PM »
Back then there were many development changes. I remember that Double Strafe did no damage, so i tried leveling with whips, which did also no dmg.
But the frustrating thing wasn't that, it was the leveling with very low rates with no one online in my range on an alpha test server.

so chill man, i didn't mean it as offense.

PS: i waited 2 years for your launch, so ofc i will take a look at it when you start

Offline Blinzer

Re: Would there be a demand for Custom server like this
« Reply #11 on: Jun 06, 2018, 01:18 PM »
Back then there were many development changes. I remember that Double Strafe did no damage, so i tried leveling with whips, which did also no dmg.
But the frustrating thing wasn't that, it was the leveling with very low rates with no one online in my range on an alpha test server.

so chill man, i didn't mean it as offense.

PS: i waited 2 years for your launch, so ofc i will take a look at it when you start

sorry if it comes off that way, i just like the aggressive style of talking. i ain't offended, and don't take it like i'm hating or anything. anyways, i just don't think 2 years ago dancer is exactly the right show for me. yeah, back then DS was super nerfed because i'm a sniper main and nerf hammered it because i knew it was overpowered in pvm but ended up overshooting. whips weren't changed at the time for sure since i did that in early 2017, so they for sure would not have helped. dancer was just straight up garbo back then

alpha was rough, i can admit that. the monsters were super difficult and it was party only to get good exp. a lot of classes were still unfinished, there was rampant underpowered or overpowered stuff(autocast books were ridiculous), it's mostly because in alpha my main focus wasn't so much class fine tuning but rework of the world and weapons, which was a concept that was completely new to me since there was simply no such thing prior. it was a mix of me tackling lots of different areas in bulk but not fine tuning yet. i did try to make some immediate changes to big spotlight skills(as anyone from the original game would first tend to gravitate towards) to balance what i thought would have balanced them out the original game, but it was only later that i was good enough at it to start thinking about how to give unique tools to each class and went in depth. i don't blame you for having a hard time in the middle of all of that

thanks for waiting and believing in me, i for sure won't disappoint


@Lioran

i also want to point out one last thing to Lioran. the reason i made equipment account bound is not because of economy at all, in fact i am certain that even without account bound gear you will starve in my economy 100% and there will never be zeny problems on my server even if it runs for 20 years, and i have my refinement system to thank for that primarily. instead, the real reason i made that change is because there is a very, VERY deep progression on my server as far as equipment goes, and if people just keep selling back their used gear to people at any price every time they upgrade their gear, there will be no reason for anyone to actually follow the progression since they can just skip it all by buying the gear they need to go to later areas. economy has literally nothing to do with it.

on top of that, you can easily just grind more gear of the same kind using the gear you already have, NOT equip it and then sell it to players for any price you want, so you don't really have a point of any kind here. blacksmiths use the refinement skill to refine weapons AND armor /gg without equipping them, so you wouldn't have a point about "not being able to sell refined gear" either.  /hmm my move is not to force people to not do it, but to make it so people would have to go out of their way to do it.
« Last Edit: Jun 06, 2018, 02:21 PM by Blinzer »

Offline Kaleidoscope

Re: Would there be a demand for Custom server like this
« Reply #12 on: Jun 06, 2018, 07:27 PM »
I am currently working on these exact concepts. I already have a Weapon and armor crafting schematic i just need a few people who have time to type it up.

I would love to talk more if you are interested. I am covering all server costs and have plenty of other resources at hand.


Sorry for the short reply but I am currently working!

Feel free to message me with your discord info and ill contact you asap!  /lv

Offline Lioran

Re: Would there be a demand for Custom server like this
« Reply #13 on: Jun 06, 2018, 09:21 PM »
so you read a couple of the 2018 changes to a server that has been undergoing constant changes since 2014 and expect to understand why anything is being changed on the server at this point, without stepping foot in game a single time?  /no1

rElIaBlE sOuRcE oF cRiTiCiSm

you're talking air because you don't know how it works until you step into the game and play, i don't care how good you think you are at imagining what would happen ingame.

Well it is true there is no way i can get a complet feel within a few patch note read, but there is always dead give aways. The amount of changes is very reminiscent of renewal, renewal just has a over powered skill problem along with the previous RO problem which is too much over powered gear only for certain characters.
I read a few updates the equipment one was the most striking one as someone that did not think this through, just thought it was a "nice" idea and did it.
Who here ever played a game where items are force fully bound to your account once you use them.
I don't need game context to know that I don't want to play on an MMO that block the trade of ANY used items,
This eliminate helping your friend trying to join with your older gear or even temporary lending so they can accomplish something.
that's another way to amplify the problem RO has been having. Everyone plays alone and never care to build friendship.

You say economy is not the reason you made that change but in your update log you clearly state that it is

Quote
the reason i made equipment account bound is not because of economy at all

Quote
The economy is rock solid, but there is one rogue factor: selling back your weaker used gear to other players. This causes two problems: an over-inflation of strong equipment in the economy
That's kinda contradicting itself doesn't it? The economy is rock solid... but its inflating of items? Its not just about Zeny.
no matter if there is upgrade on it or not, its still just a ticket to unlock the item.
It's even worse for items that are extremely rare, but i have a feeling that is not a thing on your server considering the progression you're mentioning.
If very rare items are a thing then, entirely unjustified... lower gear should become more frequent to make place for the higher one.
That system only delays the inevitable by making it a more crappy experience. Delay is not a solution.

Fyi, you can easily kill a server by wiping it regularly.
I don't know about that, I have yet to see something like that fail.
I mean every server come to an end eventually but
it is definitely going to last longer than any server last these days.
And if people don't like the wipe, that's why the legacy server is there.
When the main server come to an end, take every account and character add
_v1 so on at the end and put them on the legacy server.
that's just one option.
« Last Edit: Jun 06, 2018, 09:28 PM by Lioran »

Offline Blinzer

Re: Would there be a demand for Custom server like this
« Reply #14 on: Jun 12, 2018, 04:18 PM »
Your implication was that "economy" mainly relates to zeny and its inflation, whereas the way I used economy in that context was very obviously related to the flow of items into the economy and the way that affects the availability of gear. You can't take two different uses of the word and overlap them and then claim I'm contradicting myself. On top of it, I clearly state there that the economy is rock solid and it's only to cut out people from recycling(which is what I repeated here), so the contradiction you claim to point out doesn't even make sense. It almost seems like a desperate attempt to criticize something you've only thought about at a very shallow level.

Again, you keep trying to associate old and outdated concepts to my server. You've lived in a private server world where for the past 10 years MVP cards have been made extremely hard to get and are scarce, and that would be a problem if it was bound to equipment forever, I agree! It's unfortunate that everything in my design, including MVP cards, don't fulfill that role at all and are designed for everyone to have access to all of them. You may be scared of MVP cards tearing any balance in your version of the game if everyone had them, but I am not; and anyone who tries to preserve the bad culture of infinitely extending the lategame through a gimmicky bingo party is a fool.

"Delaying something"? "Making the game more solo based"? Don't make me laugh. I'll give you 1000 dollars if you can ever get 50 million zeny on my server completely by yourself and without ever interacting with anyone. Put your hands where your mouth is.
« Last Edit: Jun 12, 2018, 05:04 PM by Blinzer »