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Offline Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho

Re: Why everyone wants MVP cards disabled?
« Reply #15 on: Nov 06, 2016, 04:08 AM »
Im against the ban of MVP cards (aside from the overpowered ones), but i can also understand people who want to see them banned.
Well, the reason why many people want to ban MVP cards is pretty much simple. RO as a game is totally balanced compared to other MMORPGS. Of course here and there, there are some overpowered stuff, but as a whole, the classes and the cards are balanced. IMO. I mean, is there a class that isnt played? Or asking differently: Is there a class who is played mostly in all servers? No, people play all kinds of classes, also when they go for PVP/MVP/WOE/BG. It shows us that there is a kind of balance in the game. End also many cards who seem to be useless in the first place can have their use.

(SOME) MVP cards do destroy that balance. Of course that doesnt count for all MVP cards. Some are balanced, some are not. GTB, fallen bishop, thanatos, Beelzebub, bio cards like Lord Knight Card, MasterSmith Card, Valkyrie Randgris card, Ifrit card - all of these cards are overpowered and unbalanced? Why, because no matter how good of a player you are. Once you face a player that has a card of this, its pretty much game over for you. Also, these cards dont have any serious side effects.
Lets take tao gunka card as an example.
I say, that Tao gunka is balanced. Now you're asking why? Because tao gunka gives you +100% (double HP) But in the same time you get also more damage by physics and magics (50- of each). There is a little equation there. And, in addition and thats even more horrible. Once you wear Tao gunka you can be frozen. Thats the real minus you get. It is easy to paralyse people wearing the TAO GUNKA card. of course there is a little trick by wearing meteor plate but not everyone can use it.
But given the chance of being frozen you can be taken out in a more easy way imo. A sonic blow assasin could freeze you with one of his daggers and use sonic blow with thunder element against you. The damage you would get would be higher. And wizzards could use Storm gust, you would freeze and get higher dmg because of the -50 mdef. The next jt of the wizzard could kill you. So, theres a minus there. You get higher damage, you can be frozen/unable to move and with tricks you can be taken out easier than before. because if you wear toa, you cant get freeze protection.
And also TAO GUNKA card doesnt suit for everyone. For example, if I was a professor, Wizzard, Assasin, Champion I would NEVER use Tao gunka. Because freeze will make me unable to move you could be taken out very easy. And also people who are aware of you wearing tao gunka could just freeze you all the time and make you stop and leave you in that position.
But for Paladins who use sacrifice, for Whitesmiths and maybe even for Alchemists I would maybe use Taogunka in some situation but not perma.
So the problem here is, that these MVP cards that are mentioned above are totally overpowered because they dont give you any negative side effects. Also some of these cards can be put into headgear (Sunglasses) acessories, weapon or footgear and all of theses places arent essential for survival. But shield, garment and armor are the main protection sections where certain cards like Thara, Marc/ and Raydric MUST BE always be the same. So putting overpowered cards into sections that arent essential it double unfair.
Lets face it: You cant survive in WOE without Shield/Thara, Marc or Evil Druid/Armor and Raydric/Garment.
These are the MOST important parts. Everyone knows that almost every player has the same cards for these sectins(Shield/Garment/Armor) I mentioned. So you could make unfair MVP cards less unfair if they would be for these regions. For example I would not find beelzebub card unfair if someone had to put it into armor or garment.

The main problem are not the butthurt players. The problem is, that some of the MVP cards are not balanced from the very beginning. It begins in the system itself. No one says that Tao gunka, Stormy knight should be banned. Okay, some do, but most dont.

Pservers that actually care about balance and server quality should NEVER ban all MVP cards. They should only ban or at least NERF the unfair and overpowered ones. The one that I consider overpowered are mentioned above altough I didint list all. I dont know many of the new MVP cards, Im mostly talking about the classic MVP cards.

Yeah, thats pretty much it.
Ragnarok Online Player since the very Beta. I'm still in love with the game.

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Offline ggwp

Re: Why everyone wants MVP cards disabled?
« Reply #16 on: Nov 07, 2016, 08:07 PM »
Ifrit card are unbalanced + OP ? Its ridiculously useless. Earthquake auto proc damage are too small to be noticeable and that damage get split by number of available target in range. If you die to EQ proc in WoE , youre VERY VERY UNLUCKY.
Best joke of the year.

Whitesmith are still of the most feared and most stongest Killers on PVP and WOE.

Offline Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho

Re: Why everyone wants MVP cards disabled?
« Reply #17 on: Nov 07, 2016, 10:07 PM »
Ifrit card are unbalanced + OP ? Its ridiculously useless. Earthquake auto proc damage are too small to be noticeable and that damage get split by number of available target in range. If you die to EQ proc in WoE , youre VERY VERY UNLUCKY.
Well, depends on the Server experience I guess. Maybe, I just dont remember it exactly. But wouldnt it look stupid if everyone used Earthquake/Ifrit on Woe?
Also it could be abused easily. You could just use one char, give him that on go rampage on endless tower.
Or just letting your paladin in a group of monsters while you stay afk. You could farm things without being on. Thats what you need to think of.
Well, I saw some serious s*** going on at some videos. Mabye it was because it was one of these stupid custome servers with overpowered wings etc.

Also, noticed your signature. You are looking for trouble I guess. Or are you butthurt because you got owned by whitesmiths? :)))) Or did I say something bad in your direction?
« Last Edit: Nov 07, 2016, 10:23 PM by Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho »
Ragnarok Online Player since the very Beta. I'm still in love with the game.

Offline misterj

Re: Why everyone wants MVP cards disabled?
« Reply #18 on: Nov 07, 2016, 11:40 PM »
lemme smoke all the drugs you on bro..

anyways its mainly gtb that ruins mvp and woe balance. when you get gtb it means youre immune to the most ridiculously op skills, especially dispel.

Offline Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho

Re: Why everyone wants MVP cards disabled?
« Reply #19 on: Nov 08, 2016, 12:32 AM »
Do whatever your brain likes or endures.
No, its not only GTB. What about Thanatos cards and many more that I listed...
Okay, some of them I mentioned arent that overpowered, but in almost every Server I joined they were banned. Doesnt that mean something?

Note that:
The funny thing is. The MVP cards of the earlier MVPS are mostly balanced while the MVPS that came later have all effects that are either stupid or unbalanced.
« Last Edit: Nov 08, 2016, 01:04 AM by Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho »
Ragnarok Online Player since the very Beta. I'm still in love with the game.

Offline Dagsie

Re: Why everyone wants MVP cards disabled?
« Reply #20 on: Nov 08, 2016, 05:19 AM »
Hi, so I just made an account just to comment on this. Well, if we're talking about trans 2-2 private servers, I'd have to say that the only MVP card that's overpowered would be the GTB Card. As an old GM of a Philippine Private Server I was able to observe how certain MVP cards work and interact with each other and I'd have to say that some of your arguments regarding these certain MVP cards are false.

Note: But let me point out that I too am in favor of not banning MVP cards in certain servers since they are in fact, a part of the game. Below are the MVP cards you claim to be OP which in my PoV, are not.

Fallen bishop - Indeed is strong as hell, but only synergizes well with mage type classes. Mages are relatively easy to kill and are supposed to be dealing out large amounts of damage, not to mention that their damage can be mitigated easily using mdef as long as they do not have a high wizard card. I will deal with bio cards later
Thanatos, - Same effect as ice pick, only works on people with high hard def (initial def value from equipments), a def value below 40 would already mitigate the bonus damage this card has. This item only actually works if you have overups, and if you can afford overups, then you can most probably afford buying switches.
Beelzebub - Not really OP, gives you 30% casting reduction so you wouldn't have the need to add dex, but it doesn't make you unkillable or immortal, nor does it give you large amounts of damage. Beelzebub + 3 +10 headgear of caster + orlean's shield + orlean's gloves = no cast, just a substitute for 150dex. Mostly used on Champion Guild Masters for tankiness.
Bio cards - Among all the bio cards, the high wiz card would probably be the most OP but it is relatively hard to hunt, not to mention that you'd probably using it only on your mages and as I have said earlier, mages are squishy and easy to kill. Still balanced.
Lord Knight Card - Not really OP. Denies you from using skills when Frenzy is used, HP is reduced by 50% when wearing it. Also removes def and mdef. You're just going to probably use this for slapping people with brute strength or when breaking emperiums. Won't be working on people who can just 1 hit you with asura or freeze you.
Mastersmith card - Breaks your weapon and your armor at a relatively high rate, but needs consistent damage output to do so. Using brynhildr armor would prevent this, using valkyrie armor would prevent this, not to mention that Full Chemical Protection isn't really that difficult to come along with during WoEs.
Valkyrie Randgris card - Autocasts dispell at an extremely low rate, would probably need to hit the enemy a lot before it comes into effect, not really OP since it simply dispells the enemy. Yes, it also adds bonus damage, but so does turtle general card, hydra card, and other types of cards, wherein this is just nonspecific.
Ifrit card - I don't get what's so OP about the earthquake damage, it's really not that high. I can clear a single floor of ET faster with a bapho card sinx or by just having a high wiz teammate.

Offline Neffletics

Re: Why everyone wants MVP cards disabled?
« Reply #21 on: Nov 08, 2016, 09:27 AM »
Hey guys, thank you again. I am learning more about other players' perspective.

Offline Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho

Re: Why everyone wants MVP cards disabled?
« Reply #22 on: Nov 08, 2016, 12:33 PM »
Hi, so I just made an account just to comment on this. Well, if we're talking about trans 2-2 private servers, I'd have to say that the only MVP card that's overpowered would be the GTB Card. As an old GM of a Philippine Private Server I was able to observe how certain MVP cards work and interact with each other and I'd have to say that some of your arguments regarding these certain MVP cards are false.

Note: But let me point out that I too am in favor of not banning MVP cards in certain servers since they are in fact, a part of the game. Below are the MVP cards you claim to be OP which in my PoV, are not.

Fallen bishop - Indeed is strong as hell, but only synergizes well with mage type classes. Mages are relatively easy to kill and are supposed to be dealing out large amounts of damage, not to mention that their damage can be mitigated easily using mdef as long as they do not have a high wizard card. I will deal with bio cards later
Thanatos, - Same effect as ice pick, only works on people with high hard def (initial def value from equipments), a def value below 40 would already mitigate the bonus damage this card has. This item only actually works if you have overups, and if you can afford overups, then you can most probably afford buying switches.
Beelzebub - Not really OP, gives you 30% casting reduction so you wouldn't have the need to add dex, but it doesn't make you unkillable or immortal, nor does it give you large amounts of damage. Beelzebub + 3 +10 headgear of caster + orlean's shield + orlean's gloves = no cast, just a substitute for 150dex. Mostly used on Champion Guild Masters for tankiness.
Bio cards - Among all the bio cards, the high wiz card would probably be the most OP but it is relatively hard to hunt, not to mention that you'd probably using it only on your mages and as I have said earlier, mages are squishy and easy to kill. Still balanced.
Lord Knight Card - Not really OP. Denies you from using skills when Frenzy is used, HP is reduced by 50% when wearing it. Also removes def and mdef. You're just going to probably use this for slapping people with brute strength or when breaking emperiums. Won't be working on people who can just 1 hit you with asura or freeze you.
Mastersmith card - Breaks your weapon and your armor at a relatively high rate, but needs consistent damage output to do so. Using brynhildr armor would prevent this, using valkyrie armor would prevent this, not to mention that Full Chemical Protection isn't really that difficult to come along with during WoEs.
Valkyrie Randgris card - Autocasts dispell at an extremely low rate, would probably need to hit the enemy a lot before it comes into effect, not really OP since it simply dispells the enemy. Yes, it also adds bonus damage, but so does turtle general card, hydra card, and other types of cards, wherein this is just nonspecific.
Ifrit card - I don't get what's so OP about the earthquake damage, it's really not that high. I can clear a single floor of ET faster with a bapho card sinx or by just having a high wiz teammate.
Its not only GTB. Fallen Bishop is also OP as ***. 50% more damage inflicted on Demihuman on footgear... Thats just too much. And Thanatos? Ice Pick style effect for everyone...
« Last Edit: Nov 08, 2016, 01:58 PM by Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho »
Ragnarok Online Player since the very Beta. I'm still in love with the game.

Offline Blinzer

Re: Why everyone wants MVP cards disabled?
« Reply #23 on: Nov 08, 2016, 05:06 PM »
Hi, so I just made an account just to comment on this. Well, if we're talking about trans 2-2 private servers, I'd have to say that the only MVP card that's overpowered would be the GTB Card. As an old GM of a Philippine Private Server I was able to observe how certain MVP cards work and interact with each other and I'd have to say that some of your arguments regarding these certain MVP cards are false.

Note: But let me point out that I too am in favor of not banning MVP cards in certain servers since they are in fact, a part of the game. Below are the MVP cards you claim to be OP which in my PoV, are not.

Fallen bishop - Indeed is strong as hell, but only synergizes well with mage type classes. Mages are relatively easy to kill and are supposed to be dealing out large amounts of damage, not to mention that their damage can be mitigated easily using mdef as long as they do not have a high wizard card. I will deal with bio cards later
Thanatos, - Same effect as ice pick, only works on people with high hard def (initial def value from equipments), a def value below 40 would already mitigate the bonus damage this card has. This item only actually works if you have overups, and if you can afford overups, then you can most probably afford buying switches.
Beelzebub - Not really OP, gives you 30% casting reduction so you wouldn't have the need to add dex, but it doesn't make you unkillable or immortal, nor does it give you large amounts of damage. Beelzebub + 3 +10 headgear of caster + orlean's shield + orlean's gloves = no cast, just a substitute for 150dex. Mostly used on Champion Guild Masters for tankiness.
Bio cards - Among all the bio cards, the high wiz card would probably be the most OP but it is relatively hard to hunt, not to mention that you'd probably using it only on your mages and as I have said earlier, mages are squishy and easy to kill. Still balanced.
Lord Knight Card - Not really OP. Denies you from using skills when Frenzy is used, HP is reduced by 50% when wearing it. Also removes def and mdef. You're just going to probably use this for slapping people with brute strength or when breaking emperiums. Won't be working on people who can just 1 hit you with asura or freeze you.
Mastersmith card - Breaks your weapon and your armor at a relatively high rate, but needs consistent damage output to do so. Using brynhildr armor would prevent this, using valkyrie armor would prevent this, not to mention that Full Chemical Protection isn't really that difficult to come along with during WoEs.
Valkyrie Randgris card - Autocasts dispell at an extremely low rate, would probably need to hit the enemy a lot before it comes into effect, not really OP since it simply dispells the enemy. Yes, it also adds bonus damage, but so does turtle general card, hydra card, and other types of cards, wherein this is just nonspecific.
Ifrit card - I don't get what's so OP about the earthquake damage, it's really not that high. I can clear a single floor of ET faster with a bapho card sinx or by just having a high wiz teammate.

This man clearly knows 50 times more than all of you combined. The thing I love about this reply so much is that unlike the rest of you he is good enough to factor in equipment swapping into his argument, something which none of the rest of you did(because you don't know anything about high level PvP). Let me provide what I know to further support his arguments as a tribute to his efforts to wake you up inside.

Fallen Bishop: makes precast actually dangerous, but nothing a little bit of smart elemental armor swapping can't handle. i can't emphasize enough how 4 double strafes kills an unprotected hw at double the wizard's range.
Thanatos: this card is pretty sick but mostly "breaks" pvm, not pvp. in pvp you know when someone's hitting you with thanatos(if you know your RO math) and can easily swap out a piece of armor which will equate the damage to incant(i believe it was 42 def? been a long time). when under fire from multiple entities, it's nothing you wouldn't die from regardless so it changes nothing. incant is better because thanatos is impractical and unreliable in pvp except as a swap out card to hit steel body and melee classes played by scrubs who don't know how to gear swap(not to mention getting the card is completely not worth the benefits). as for pvm, all's it does is make it so that instead of taking 2 minutes to do something, it takes 45 seconds. no effective change in the way the fight plays out. green flag.
Beelzebub:  i guess it does add a little bit of extra tankiness if you want the same cast time with less dex, but at that point just learn how to swap it in to cast and then swap it out when you're not casting and use it with any class. technical skillcap extraordinaire to get these small advantages is what i love about this game. you can get 147 natural dex or 150 with higher level food with all the classes that need it, which makes this card negligible except at the highest level of play.
Randgris Card: garbage. weaker TG with a chance to make snipers be able to dispel defender or LKs to dispel idiots who let them get close during berserk. swapped in only as a desperate resort when you're in an isolated 1 v 1 which you will be safe in for more than 10 seconds(hint: never). weapon indestructible is covered by FCP. not worth the title.
High Wizard: swag card if combined with fallen bishop and makes high wizards real priority targets. doesn't make you do too much damage, just wear noxious + horn card or GTB. do i have to tell you how to do everything?
GTB: you all think this is overpowered, but the reality is this is the balancing card you need to get past a strong precast of multiple people who have FB + HW with competent allies backing them up. easily countered because melee classes will demolish you and you're really obvious when you have it on. taking it out is a mistake, but nerfing it just for PvP(and not GvG or PvM) is an option i would accept.
Whitesmith: countered by FCP. Non factor card.
Lord Knight: pretty sick last resort tactic to swap in and go bananas but easy to shut down through dispel, quag, agi down, don't forget me, ankle snare, status effects, you name it. The reward for using it correctly is balanced because it can be countered to have a minimal impact by an equally skilled player.
Ifrit Card: never seen used in way that made me care in my life. can be decent on a steel body monk for mobbing(maybe?) but irrelevant for PvP and vastly outclassed by any properly built AoE damage.

Go into PvP, train for 3 years, and then come back to talk about this. There is no such thing as "knowing a lot about the game but being just ok at it". Either you know and you're good or you don't know and you're bad, and if you don't know don't talk. It's a universal law, so start following it.
« Last Edit: Nov 09, 2016, 03:21 AM by Blinzer »

Offline Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho

Re: Why everyone wants MVP cards disabled?
« Reply #24 on: Nov 08, 2016, 05:23 PM »
This man clearly knows 50 times more than all of you combined. The thing I love about this reply so much is that unlike the rest of you he is good enough to factor in equipment swapping into his argument, something which none of the rest of you did(because you don't know anything about high level PvP). Let me provide what I know to further support his arguments as a tribute to his efforts to wake you up inside.

Fallen Bishop: makes precast actually dangerous, but nothing a little bit of smart elemental armor swapping can't handle. i can't emphasize enough how 4 double strafes kills an unprotected hw at double the wizard's range.
Thanatos: this card is pretty sick but mostly "breaks" pvm, not pvp. in pvp you know when someone's hitting you with thanatos(if you know your RO math) and can easily swap out a piece of armor which will equate the damage to incant(i believe it was 42 def? been a long time). when under fire from multiple entities, it's nothing you wouldn't die from regardless so it changes nothing. incant is better because thanatos is impractical and unreliable in pvp except as a swap out card to hit steel body and melee classes played by scrubs who don't know how to gear swap(not to mention getting the card is completely not worth the benefits). as for pvm, all's it does is make it so that instead of taking 2 minutes to do something, it takes 45 seconds. no effective change in the way the fight plays out. green flag.
Beelzebub: sucks. garbage. trash. you can get 147 natural dex or 150 with higher level food with all the classes that need it, which makes this card negligible. never use. still wouldn't be good if you buffed it to give 50% less cast time, except as a swapper if you're debuffed to all hell(which is a position you're going to die in and get cast broken no matter what, so it changes nothing). i guess it does add a little bit of extra tankiness if you want the same cast time with less dex, but at that point just learn how to swap it in to cast and then swap it out when you're not casting and use it all of the time. technical skillcap extraordinaire to get these small advantages is what i love about this game.
Randgris Card: garbage. weaker TG with a chance to make snipers be able to dispel defender or LKs to dispel idiots who let them get close during berserk. swapped in only as a desperate resort when you're in an isolated 1 v 1 which you will be safe in for more than 10 seconds(hint: never). weapon indestructible is covered by FCP. not worth the title.
High Wizard: swag card if combined with fallen bishop and makes high wizards real priority targets. doesn't make you do too much damage, just wear noxious + horn card or GTB. do i have to tell you how to do everything?
GTB: you all think this is overpowered, but the reality is this is the balancing card you need to get past a strong precast of multiple people who have FB + HW with competent allies backing them up. easily countered because melee classes will demolish you and you're really obvious when you have it on. taking it out is a mistake, but nerfing it just for PvP(and not GvG or PvM) is an option i would accept.
Whitesmith: countered by FCP. Non factor card.
Lord Knight: pretty sick last resort tactic to swap in and go bananas but easy to shut down through dispel, quag, agi down, service, ankle snare, status effects, you name it. The reward for using it correctly is balanced because it can be countered to have a minimal impact by an equally skilled player.
Ifrit Card: never seen used in my life. can be decent on a steel body monk for mobbing(maybe?) but irrelevant for PvP and vastly outclassed by any properly built AoE damage.

Go into PvP, train for 3 years, and then come back to talk about this. There is no such thing as "knowing a lot about the game but being just ok at it". Either you know and you're good or you don't know and you're bad, and if you don't know don't talk. It's a universal law, so start following it.
Some of the cards that I listed are in a false category. I should have distinguished between overpowered MVP cards and unbalanced MVP cards. Looks like I started confusing people.
Btw. you only talked about GTB in WOE, but on PVP you would make classes completly useless. Thats what its about. WOE makes things different.
« Last Edit: Nov 08, 2016, 05:31 PM by Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho »
Ragnarok Online Player since the very Beta. I'm still in love with the game.

Offline Blinzer

Re: Why everyone wants MVP cards disabled?
« Reply #25 on: Nov 08, 2016, 05:57 PM »
Some of the cards that I listed are in a false category. I should have distinguished between overpowered MVP cards and unbalanced MVP cards. Looks like I started confusing people.
Btw. you only talked about GTB in WOE, but on PVP you would make classes completly useless. Thats what its about. WOE makes things different.

You can't classify any of these cards as overpowered or unbalanced. They mix together to form the perfect balance and reward for skilled players. What makes it unbalanced is if you have them and someone else doesn't.

I said nerfing GTB is acceptable in PvP, did I not? But it's not like HW ever stood a chance in PvP to begin with, so it changes nothing.

Maybe if it's a party vs party situation it miiiigght change something, since dispel is pretty crucial.
« Last Edit: Nov 08, 2016, 06:03 PM by Blinzer »

Offline Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho

Re: Why everyone wants MVP cards disabled?
« Reply #26 on: Nov 08, 2016, 06:18 PM »
You can't classify any of these cards as overpowered or unbalanced. They mix together to form the perfect balance and reward for skilled players. What makes it unbalanced is if you have them and someone else doesn't.

I said nerfing GTB is acceptable in PvP, did I not? But it's not like HW ever stood a chance in PvP to begin with, so it changes nothing.

Maybe if it's a party vs party situation it miiiigght change something, since dispel is pretty crucial.
Well, its your opinion I respect that. And I did get your message. But that line "What makes it unbalanced is if you have them and someone else doesn't."
I think thats just not true. You can counter other cards like, lets say Ghostring or Tao gunka even if you dont have them yourself. But you cant counter GTB. Even if you have one on your own. Thats the problem.
I specially mean PVP here.
BTW: I also favour balancing some MVPS over completly banning them. I just would ban only a few. Banning all MVP cards is stupid...
« Last Edit: Nov 08, 2016, 07:42 PM by Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho »
Ragnarok Online Player since the very Beta. I'm still in love with the game.

Offline Blinzer

Re: Why everyone wants MVP cards disabled?
« Reply #27 on: Nov 08, 2016, 08:09 PM »
Well, its your opinion I respect that. And I did get your message. But that line "What makes it unbalanced is if you have them and someone else doesn't."
I think thats just not true. You can counter other cards like, lets say Ghostring or Tao gunka even if you dont have them yourself. But you cant counter GTB. Even if you have one on your own. Thats the problem.
I specially mean PVP here.
BTW: I also favour balancing some MVPS over completly banning them. I just would ban only a few. Banning all MVP cards is stupid...

There is no such thing as "opinion" in the real world. There are facts and lies. If you're not going to provide mathematical proof to why I'm wrong, your only other option is to challenge me to battle to determine whose knowledge makes them stronger in the game. If you're not willing to do that, you have no place disputing what I have to say with a hollow "ur wrong cuz opinion".

I clearly explained to you the counter to GTB twice and gave you a very important reason to why it needs to exist. I'm not going to say it again. Stop wasting my time.

Offline Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho

Re: Why everyone wants MVP cards disabled?
« Reply #28 on: Nov 08, 2016, 08:12 PM »
There is no such thing as "opinion" in the real world. There are facts and lies. If you're not going to provide mathematical proof to why I'm wrong, your only other option is to challenge me to battle to determine whose knowledge makes them stronger in the game. If you're not willing to do that, you have no place disputing what I have to say with a hollow "ur wrong cuz opinion".

I clearly explained to you the counter to GTB twice and gave you a very important reason to why it needs to exist. I'm not going to say it again. Stop wasting my time.
Oh, someone who takes this debate way too serious.
I know that you can counter it, I've read your text again AND again. I was simply talking about PVP and not about WOE. Read my text again and then comment. I was also speaking about your line "What makes it unbalanced is if you have them and someone else doesn't."
I assume that you mean that in a generic way. Not only for GTB, right? That was the line I was talking about.
And I proofed that it is not true. What makes certain cards unbalanced imo is that you can't counter them.
Its that line what caught my attention.
Btw. I dont force you to comment here.
« Last Edit: Nov 08, 2016, 08:33 PM by Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho »
Ragnarok Online Player since the very Beta. I'm still in love with the game.

Offline Blinzer

Re: Why everyone wants MVP cards disabled?
« Reply #29 on: Nov 08, 2016, 10:08 PM »
Oh, someone who takes this debate way too serious.
I know that you can counter it, I've read your text again AND again. I was simply talking about PVP and not about WOE. Read my text again and then comment. I was also speaking about your line "What makes it unbalanced is if you have them and someone else doesn't."
I assume that you mean that in a generic way. Not only for GTB, right? That was the line I was talking about.
And I proofed that it is not true. What makes certain cards unbalanced imo is that you can't counter them.
Its that line what caught my attention.
Btw. I dont force you to comment here.

Like I said, a nerf to GTB in PvP exclusively would be good to compensate for smaller scale battles like 1v1s and 2v2s, but if it starts becoming 8v8 it's already more balanced to have it working normally. And yes, you are at a significant disadvantage if you don't have GR or Tao Gunka and the other person does in specific matchups. However, the important thing to note is the ratio of disadvantage for those cards is approximately 50%, whereas for most MVP cards the disadvantage is much greater. In Ragnarok, a 50% disadvantage is nothing because skill difference allows you to compensate for at least 300% disadvantage(1v2). Why 300%?

It's generally accepted by the legends that when fighting solo and with equal arms(same level of buffs and equipment), your disadvantage is an exponential one because you can only do so much with a single character before they gain superior positioning on you to close you out. 1v2 is 4 times harder than 1v1(300% disadvantage), and 1v3 is 9 times harder than 1v1(800% disadvantage). Most legends can infinitely stall 1v2s against other legends and never die(which technically makes the solo player look like he's better, but it's actually just mathematically impossible to take down someone playing optimally with 2 people). This means that you can compensate for at least a 300% disadvantage. Of course, if you don't practice PvP religiously to the point of perfection you would have no clue that this type of theorycrafting even existed because everyone who did it quit 7 years ago.

There is an underlying lack of honor here which is being ignored and seems to have become the standard, something that in my day would get you KoSed forever by everyone. Any player who is worth something avoids using GTB against magic classes in PvP and Strong Shield against snipers because they know it makes the matchups not skill based. It's not the game's fault if your server's community doesn't beat the s*** out of people like that until they stop coming back.
« Last Edit: Nov 08, 2016, 10:43 PM by Blinzer »