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Offline MetallicMonkey

Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« on: Jun 10, 2017, 10:47 PM »
It has been over half a decade since I have played RO. I played from 2005-2011. These days, I have been feeling a little nostalgic and I'm interested in creating a high rate private server purely for PvP. I want to get a gauge on how many people would like to play the kind of server I have in mind.

Coding won't be a problem, but time is. As a result, I may potentially be interested in looking for a partnership with someone.

Specifications:
Max base/job level: Either 99/70, 255/120, or 500/120.
Exp rates:  High (this will vary based on feedback and what I think is reasonable given the maximum levels)
Drop rates: 10000x
Monsters: The monsters strength can increase based on the maximum levels. I think it only makes sense to make it hard to kill MVPs if the drop rate is 10000x or provide another award if they aren't so hard to kill. I may include all the cards in an item "mall" and create a completely separate reward system.
Equipment: 4 slotted equipment aside from shield, which has 2.
Events: Whatever players like these days.

With the current specifications above (which aren't too different from the server specs in super high rate servers you've seen in the past), you can see that this is geared towards players with little time on their hands, but would like to experience PvP as soon as possible. This server will favor those with skill and less so those who just know how to grind. Nonetheless, I would probably make a reward system that rewards the latter group of players.

What do you guys think? Will this type of server survive these days?

TL;DR: I've noticed that a lot of PvP based super high rate servers have already died out. I am considering reviving it.

Edit: Grammar mistakes and levels.
« Last Edit: Jun 12, 2017, 04:45 AM by MetallicMonkey »

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Offline Yuzo

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #1 on: Jun 11, 2017, 11:51 PM »
i think you need to look beyond just configuring your server. pvp has to be a part of the package, like the filling to your sandwich. same goes for other ro content such as woe and bg.

Offline jacobo_bobo

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #2 on: Jun 12, 2017, 01:18 AM »
A pure pvp server caught my attention..then you lost me when you said all equipment would have  4 slots and shields 2 slots..

Personally I don't see this server being "successful" or lasting more than a couple of months.
Current Server: http://playdreamerro.com
IGN: Jacobo Bobo

Offline Kris

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #3 on: Jun 12, 2017, 02:41 AM »
need an instant pvp server without game of thrones level gear
2k17 Return

Offline snakeside

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #4 on: Jun 12, 2017, 03:01 AM »
99/70 pre-renewal, all MVP cards readily available, and no modifications on equipment slots (no multi-slotted armors please), no ygg berries and seeds just mastelas

Offline MetallicMonkey

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #5 on: Jun 12, 2017, 04:29 AM »
@Yuzo: That's true. Given time, I will eventually work on the other aspects of the game itself. For the examples you gave, I think that's more or less the same isn't it? WoE in itself is PvP, PvM (emperium and guardians), and teamwork. I don't see these aspects changing much from the specifications I mentioned above. Correct me if I'm wrong, I was never a big fan of WoE. As for BG, if I get enough players, I can always increase the rewards and add a minimum number of players constraint if it isn't already there.

I actually have quite a few ideas for unique events that I don't think are currently implemented. I'll probably implement those (some that were quite successful in very old servers that are now dead).

A poker system of a sort is probably what I might implement as I am a math graduate... measure theoretic probability anyone?

@jacobo_bobo, @snakeside: Why not? Preferences aside, the one thing about the original RO that I believe some players (not sure how big the population) don't like is the amount of effort required to become decent player. If you tell veterans to play a server that requires a lot of grinding when he already knows the ins and outs of RO, game play may become a little mundane for them. On top of this, if people only have 1 slotted items, there aren't a lot of combinations one could have for equipment. As a result, there isn't a lot of different strategies one could have (arguable since a player would have multiple equipment). Separation between strong and weak players is minimal in this setting.

The more slots, the more variation among builds, and more PvP strategies. Here, the strong and weak players will probably have a large separation and something like 1 vs 5 is probably possible.

I could always include both kind of slots (1 and 4s) in the game and test this theory (assuming I get enough feedback from the players).

@Kris: /heh what? What do you mean by game of thrones gear? OP donation gears? If that's what you mean, I will preserve fairness (mainly in terms of PvP).

Note: Of course the MVP cards would have to be normalized according to the maximum base levels for fairness. Eg. A server with Phreeoni Cards with +100 Hit for a server with 99/70 base/job levels doesn't make much sense. It renders all flee cards and equips useless.
« Last Edit: Jun 12, 2017, 04:59 AM by MetallicMonkey »

Offline snakeside

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #6 on: Jun 12, 2017, 06:43 AM »
the reason to stick with 1-slotted armors is to promote gear switching and not have stupid card combinations in your armor

Offline MetallicMonkey

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #7 on: Jun 12, 2017, 07:30 AM »
I see... but even in super high rates with 4,2 slots, i would switch between 6 armors at least. It's true that people can just insert all the cards they need in one item, but for example, you will still switch between 2x thara frog cards vs thara frog card + golden thief bug card shields.

Edit: The trade off is usually stacking effects, this also encourages item switching.

Edit2: I don't see why someone would have a 'stupid' card combination in their equipment unless they're not familiar with the super high rate meta game.
« Last Edit: Jun 12, 2017, 07:58 AM by MetallicMonkey »

Offline Kaleidoscope

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #8 on: Jun 14, 2017, 03:07 PM »
I see... but even in super high rates with 4,2 slots, i would switch between 6 armors at least. It's true that people can just insert all the cards they need in one item, but for example, you will still switch between 2x thara frog cards vs thara frog card + golden thief bug card shields.

Edit: The trade off is usually stacking effects, this also encourages item switching.

Edit2: I don't see why someone would have a 'stupid' card combination in their equipment unless they're not familiar with the super high rate meta game.

Having 4 slotted equipment calls for much heavier switching.

People who are used to low rates misunderstand the stacking of /items, and that high rate cards+stats will be modified for balance.

For example: Someone from low rates might assume that 4 slots means that 1 Marc + ED + 2 tao gunka would be the best bet. But can someone from low rate server tell me the problems that can arise from this? How and why would you switch this? would you start with this armor?

SHR, ( higher level 500 - 999) servers are much more complex than just resisting neutral / frost and healing with some yggs.

Offline noheal

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #9 on: Jun 14, 2017, 06:44 PM »
there is a heavy market for this type of server....Now the people that are lured to this time of server arent the best you need a heavy gm team, a heavier testing team, and someone smart to not get raped by  bias suggestions

comes to mind the most popular one Xilero pvp (you could pvp in town,at mvps zones, at special events pvp were you bet gear so s*** drops to if you die. and xilero main  not as hardcore but still great pvp and same super H level and 4 sloted gears, creazy donor sets, creazier woe sets etc etc etc both great servers......the balance and testing you need to do is a quite heavy but all the ground work is done.

Now you have the money to fight all the ddos, haters that will try to screw your server and actually hire a staff? if you do go for it I will play on it

Offline Lushi

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #10 on: Jun 14, 2017, 08:10 PM »
I'd be down to play a purely PvP server and could have friends potentially want to join as well but the 4 slotted equipment is lame keep it balanced with everything single slotted and add a MvP room with all MvPs to make the jump to PvP easy. I think it would survive as a lot of people don't want to grind to just PvP.
« Last Edit: Jun 16, 2017, 05:11 PM by Lushi »

Offline YeXiu

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #11 on: Jun 15, 2017, 09:11 AM »
It will only last for a few months. Few weeks if you don't have any experience in handling server. Finding a market for PVP interested players is easy but keeping them playing for a long time in a high rate is difficult. You can only satisfy their hunger for a while. You will also need experienced staffs to keep the game balance.

A high rate with a low rate quality mechanics has a better chance to last and that is the only thing that kept some high rate server alive until today. You need to give player something to do other than PVP. But nothing last forever too.

Offline MetallicMonkey

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #12 on: Jun 15, 2017, 07:41 PM »
A lot of replies in this thread have been about my ability to keep the players and maintain the server. I will of course, try my best to do all the things necessary to make the server successful. As an attempt to settle these redundant remarks:

I am a strong problem solver (not just self-proclaimed, I have a status to prove it but I don't want to say too much) who has worked for several top software companies in the US. That means, I'm relatively fast at learning, understanding problems, and solving them. I recognize the problem of normalization in equipment effects, skills, etc, and will balance the server accordingly. Lastly, I am pretty confident in the work I do.

The main question was, how many people are willing to play it. I was hoping for a more optimistic reply so that I could go ahead and implement the server with more confidence, knowing that there are still players looking for these types of servers. I did get a bit of that, but it looks like most people just like to tell me how hard it is to make a SHR server without providing solid explanations to their reasoning.

Offline Kris

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #13 on: Jun 15, 2017, 08:16 PM »
I mean no [4] gear when I said GoT gears. Need someone to make a MR server with HR features. Quite often server owners make Mid Rates with LR features. This is destined to fail. Somebody needs to act quick and take my free advice. Make a MR server with HR features asap to capitalize on the aimless MR community right now who don't have a good server to play
Thank me later
2k17 Return

Offline noheal

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #14 on: Jun 15, 2017, 08:32 PM »
I mean no [4] gear when I said GoT gears. Need someone to make a MR server with HR features. Quite often server owners make Mid Rates with LR features. This is destined to fail. Somebody needs to act quick and take my free advice. Make a MR server with HR features asap to capitalize on the aimless MR community right now who don't have a good server to play
Thank me later

You mean something like EssenceRO or Xilero? type of servers?

Offline MetallicMonkey

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #15 on: Jun 15, 2017, 08:37 PM »
Thanks for the suggestion, I will consider it. Since the 2 and 4 slots are mainly for PvP, I can probably just separate this system for specific PvP maps.

Offline Lushi

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #16 on: Jun 16, 2017, 01:09 AM »
What do you mean by separating it for PvP maps? I don't think segregating a server that you're trying to grow wouldn't be a great idea just so that you could just keep the 2 and 4 slot equips. I think personally in my opinion that people would like to just see the standard single slot system in place with just competitive PvP/WoE which would attract a lot of players. Like Kris has said there's a lot of players that enjoy the MR w/HR features or simply just having a HR server where people can instantly get in the action that's your key right there to a start of a successful server. 
« Last Edit: Jun 16, 2017, 05:02 PM by Lushi »

Offline Kaleidoscope

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #17 on: Jun 16, 2017, 02:45 AM »
What do you mean by separating it for PvP maps? I don't think you just segregating a server that you're trying to grow wouldn't make sense so that you could just keep the 2 and 4 slot equips. I think personally in my opinion that people would like to just see the standard single slot system in place with just competitive PvP/WoE which would attract a lot of players. Like Kris has said there's a lot of players that enjoy the MR w/HR features or simply just having a HR server where people can instantly get in the action that's your key right there.

Those types of servers are all over the place. This style of pvp and game play is not for everyone and is definetly more work to balance, but it has been done. I've seen a lot of hate towards it with out reasoning. "I think 1 slot is better"...why do you think it better. Please don't tell me "EVERYONE like that way", because that is not entirely true. Give me supporting evidence on why this system has not worked in the past and proactively think of ways to improve upon these errors. The whole idea is to create something fresh and new with some reminiscing of 2009-2012 style SHR server.

Offline MetallicMonkey

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #18 on: Jun 16, 2017, 02:59 AM »
Quote
What do you mean by separating it for PvP maps? I don't think you just segregating a server that you're trying to grow wouldn't make sense so that you could just keep the 2 and 4 slot equips. I think personally in my opinion that people would like to just see the standard single slot system in place with just competitive PvP/WoE which would attract a lot of players. Like Kris has said there's a lot of players that enjoy the MR w/HR features or simply just having a HR server where people can instantly get in the action that's your key right there.

Yeah, I think I know what you mean by MR w/ HR features. If it's similar to NamelessRO, I've played that for a couple of years myself.

I mean a separate system for PvP with 4 slots and regular 1 slots in the same server. I don't plan on sharing all my original ideas, I'll leave it at that.

Quote
Those types of servers are all over the place. This style of pvp and game play is not for everyone and is definetly more work to balance, but it has been done. I've seen a lot of hate towards it with out reasoning. "I think 1 slot is better"...why do you think it better. Please don't tell me "EVERYONE like that way", because that is not entirely true. Give me supporting evidence on why this system has not worked in the past and proactively think of ways to improve upon these errors. The whole idea is to create something fresh and new with some reminiscing of 2009-2012 style SHR server.

Yes, that's what I had in mind.

Offline Lushi

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #19 on: Jun 16, 2017, 05:10 PM »
Yes, NamelessRO is a great example as I've also played there myself for years. NON-NL and NL-PVP worked but you would see way more people participate in NON-NL which as you know was strictly single slot items. Seeing 4 users already  post in this thread requesting for no multiple slot items should be a hint also but its all personal choice. I've always seen multiple item servers die out quick or just get stale.

Offline Kaleidoscope

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #20 on: Jun 16, 2017, 07:30 PM »
4 users is not a statistic you can Count on. Plus it is personal preference, people will join your server if word of mouth gets out that it's enjoyable/ stable/ friendly/ balanced. I think with how stale RO has become in general ( especially for older generation players) that change and new innovations are exciting! On a developers side: it's just as exciting creating a unique atmosphere for players. Nameless RO was an amazing server, I think I remember just about everything from it. Does anyone know who the founder or developer was?

Offline MetallicMonkey

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #21 on: Jun 16, 2017, 07:34 PM »
Quote
Yes, NamelessRO is a great example as I've also played there myself for years. NON-NL and NL-PVP worked but you would see way more people participate in NON-NL which as you know was strictly single slot items. Seeing 4 users already  post in this thread requesting for no multiple slot items should be a hint also but its all personal choice. I've always seen multiple item servers die out quick or just get stale.

Yeah, I know what you mean. From my past experience, these type of servers do die out quite easily. I have some original idea myself, which is why I'm probably a little more confident than most.

More than anything, it's also just a preference. Many people who have strictly played with single slots probably do not know how to play with 4 slots and vice versa. That is probably where the strong sense of disapproval is coming from. The number of those who disproves doesn't really mean anything without a solid reason.

Offline Lushi

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #22 on: Jun 16, 2017, 09:35 PM »
The owner of NamelessRO was gurKen and if you were to replicate nlRO PvP or itself in general into the potential server that you're making then that would be awesome. I agree that it is a personal preference on the usage of multi-slotted and single slotted gears but I think you'll see majority side in favor of single slotted. I personally think there would be more players that have experience with single slotted and multi-slotted gear players wouldn't be at a disadvantage playing at single slots. If you're trying to cater to the larger audience which I believe are single slotted users then I think you would get better attraction then trying to aim for the niche number of players that enjoy multi-slotted gear but hey I could be wrong but that’s what I truly believe in.

Offline Kris

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #23 on: Jun 16, 2017, 09:39 PM »
Instead of adding custom godly gear, y'all should keep it as close to MR gear as possible (proxy / dboots [1]) as a luxury and have stuff like double damage, invisibility and haste runes like in this vid
https://youtu.be/iOJw7oQRqbs
2k17 Return

Offline MetallicMonkey

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #24 on: Jun 17, 2017, 03:34 AM »
Quote
I agree that it is a personal preference on the usage of multi-slotted and single slotted gears but I think you'll see majority side in favor of single slotted. I personally think there would be more players that have experience with single slotted and multi-slotted gear players wouldn't be at a disadvantage playing at single slots. If you're trying to cater to the larger audience which I believe are single slotted users then I think you would get better attraction then trying to aim for the niche number of players that enjoy multi-slotted gear but hey I could be wrong but that’s what I truly believe in.

Yes, that's probably true. However, I have a plan that may be able to cater to both systems.

To be honest, I've completely grown out of gaming due to what I've accomplished in life. I, like many of you, have other priorities in life. I wish someone could swing by and take these ideas and implement them for us so that we could play for a short period of time again.  /heh

Edit: It just so happens that I'm capable of doing it myself because I've become a developer since the last decade.

Offline Kris

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #25 on: Jun 17, 2017, 03:07 PM »
so we gon pretend like nobody noticed mans saying he's completely grown out of gaming due to what he's accomplished in life
2k17 Return

Offline MetallicMonkey

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #26 on: Jun 17, 2017, 07:23 PM »
I can probably spin up a RO server pretty quickly (although initially it will not be a great one) and I thought it would be sort of fun to do so. I'm just deciding if it would be worth my time at the moment. In other words, I'm wondering what else I can get out of this project. Unfortunately, I can't and don't even want to write this on my resume.

When I say I've grown out of it, I mean I haven't played games in a very long time and I don't have as much time to spend doing these kind of things. This still doesn't mean that I can't create and manage a server.

Anyways, I'm done here since no one is providing anymore constructive feedback.
« Last Edit: Jun 17, 2017, 07:34 PM by MetallicMonkey »

Offline scrollLock

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #27 on: Jun 29, 2017, 03:49 PM »
Back in 2007, there was a HR server called LaoRO and then it created an SHR server (750/120) with most items bought at mall, MVP rooms (PK enabled) with ALL of the MVP's in it (no modification to hp or stats), 100% drop rate.

There were a lot of custom items with wings, giving +100, +200 and +250 to all stats (and some without + to luk).

Huge gold room where skills were enabled, easy to farm money. 4 slot items (2 slot shields). Had also a quest for obtaining EDP card (accessory)

Basically it was for fun server, no need to grind, no need to hunt (except for EDP card quest). Lot of duels going on and it was really active server.

I believe it reached 500+ players when at peak.

Some screenshots, too bad i dont have the gold room or mvp room screenshots.






Offline Godlikex

Re: Who would like to see a high rate pure PvP server?
« Reply #28 on: Jun 30, 2017, 02:35 PM »
You should try divine-gaming.com  /no1
This server is a good alternative  /ok, only is it a 500/120 with less OP stat effectss but still a good pvp server with all these things your previous server had  /heh