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RateMyServer.Net => Server Discussion => Topic started by: Alexina on Apr 28, 2009, 02:20 pm

Title: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Alexina on Apr 28, 2009, 02:20 pm
I have to say this since no one else is.  I've played a few servers, and to be honest have had a nice three of four years break from RO in general give or take.   The servers I've played on I never had an issue with really.  I just want to know if you have an issue with a server why don't you just move on?  Those who have stayed there for a month or more first, why did you? Why didn't you notice the issues sooner?  What made a server you've been playing on for a decent time suddenly bad? 

I'm just curious to be honest.  What makes a good server suddenly bad?

P.S.  I also want to note I'm new to these forums so I hope I posted this in the right section.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Descent on Apr 28, 2009, 02:22 pm
Perfect place for it, Alexina.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Zelos on Apr 28, 2009, 02:30 pm
When corrupt GMs/Admins come in, a bad exploit that ruins the game for others. Server gets auctioned to some immature person who doesn't know what he's doing. Things like that.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Alexina on Apr 28, 2009, 02:37 pm
I guess a new owner would cause that, or if an owner was slacking and not watching those he made into GM's.  It just seems odd that someone would make a server go through all that work and hand it over.  Like I said I don't get it for the most part, I've been fine in most the servers I played in.  Most places you go to there is going to be good and bad sides, you have to measure that almost right away before wasting valuable time I guess.  Large numbers in servers or being on at different times as the GMs could mask this well I suggest.  Wow, never thought one would have to do so much research before joining a server.  RO sure has changed since I last left it, guess I just got lucky in my own ways.   
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Zelos on Apr 28, 2009, 02:56 pm
Zairik did when he owned ScytheRO. He auctioned it, and made some money, then made a brand new server, PoisonRO.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Elenaya on Apr 28, 2009, 02:57 pm
Well it's not really a matter of people not noticing the issues at hand in the beginning, but for the most part, people don't leave, because their friends are staying.  Either that or they enjoy what they've gathered on the server and don't want to leave that behind.

Also as well as some give into the corruption of the server and become corrupted them self while having fun playing the game.

But yeah, in general and overall, it's the Admin's lack of care that brings the server down to hell.  He started hiring half-assed GMs, he barely puts effort into his server anymore, and his overall attitude will begin to go down hill.

Pretty much that's all.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Zelos on Apr 28, 2009, 03:06 pm
Topic Bumped.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: LemonCrosswalk on Apr 28, 2009, 03:23 pm
Even beyond corruption, people also prefer new servers. It's more fun when you can actively compete with people to get on top. If you join a already set up server, the events tend to lean towards the high leveled. Even when you get up to the high levels, everyone is already geared up and can still beat you. The GMs have to make sure they still welcome new players as well as keep the older ones they have.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Hutchy on Apr 28, 2009, 05:12 pm
Here's my answer, plain and simple: The people who play on it.

I could care less what's going on staff-side anymore. It's the community that is closest to me, and if the idiots outweigh the nice - or even tolerable - players, I'm out.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Soma on Apr 28, 2009, 08:19 pm
Here's my answer, plain and simple: The people who play on it.

Quoted for truth.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Elenaya on Apr 28, 2009, 10:12 pm
But then again isn't it the staff's responsibility to take care of incompetent players and make sure the community is going at least decently well?

Sure, there can be morons at the beginning, but if their behaviour is outrageous, I'm sure that can be taken care of.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: LiteX on Apr 29, 2009, 03:37 am
But then again isn't it the staff's responsibility to take care of incompetent players and make sure the community is going at least decently well?

Sure, there can be morons at the beginning, but if their behaviour is outrageous, I'm sure that can be taken care of.

Agreed, if there are players insulting everyone in the server for no reason while the admins and gms are slacking, the it's also part of the GMs' fault, and most cases,a server goes bad when a corrupt GM appears
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Alexina on Apr 29, 2009, 03:43 am
Alright, but can you really expect the staff to watch the whole server?  Maybe smaller servers, but people can't be everywhere at once, and even staff have lives outside of the game.  Is there away to save this?  I also want to sit back because I'm seeing a lot of it being blamed on staff, but that's kind of like hearing it's a parent's fault a kid turns out a certain way.  That's both a give or take statement, sometimes it is, other times, well no matter how hard they try there seems to be no stopping it.

Basically trying to turn the thread into a, what not to do on servers you run, or how to keep your server players happy thing.  How does one keep a good server good and running?

Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: LiteX on Apr 29, 2009, 03:53 am
Alright, but can you really expect the staff to watch the whole server?  Maybe smaller servers, but people can't be everywhere at once, and even staff have lives outside of the game.  Is there away to save this?  I also want to sit back because I'm seeing a lot of it being blamed on staff, but that's kind of like hearing it's a parent's fault a kid turns out a certain way.  That's both a give or take statement, sometimes it is, other times, well no matter how hard they try there seems to be no stopping it.

Basically trying to turn the thread into a, what not to do on servers you run, or how to keep your server players happy thing.  How does one keep a good server good and running?



What I meant above is the majority of the players doing it while the GM reads the reports and doesn't give a damn about it because he is either lazy, or the annoying playerd are his "friends"
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Hutchy on Apr 29, 2009, 10:39 am
I don't see why GMs should be held responsible for tiffs between players. But anyway...

Elaboration is good.

Quote
if you have an issue with a server why don't you just move on? Those who have stayed there for a month or more first, why did you? Why didn't you notice the issues sooner?

Here are two examples from opposite ends of the spectrum:

I played iRO and had no qualms about leaving because I hadn't attached myself to anyone there yet, as I had only been there for a month or two. I was young, and my inability to pay the monthly fee was ultimately what drove me away. In this case, leaving was extraordinarily easy, and I had no second thoughts about doing so.

Conversely, I played SeRO for a good nine months and made a lot of friends who are still very dear to me. It was far harder to leave because I was emotionally invested in part of the community, so despite the particularly nasty forum PMs that prompted my departure, I still check back because I miss certain people (even if I don't actively play).

Could GMs have done anything to prolong my stay on any of these servers? No, aside from banning people I didn't like, but that's a *ridiculous* thing to ask. We all have to share the sandbox, and can't really expect everyone we don't get along with to be booted from said sandbox; from here we can either wait it out or leave. So there are your reasons for why it's harder for some people to gtfo.

Quote
How does one keep a good server good and running?

In cases where the community is the issue, I don't think there is much that GMs can do. Sure, they can ban/jail/mute problematic players, people who abuse bugs, people who insult the staff... but that still doesn't ensure that everyone playing a server is going to have the time of their life. Thinking a server is "good" is an opinion, not a fact, and I think it's kind of silly to expect your typical 16-year-old staffer to devote the time/energy required to even ATTEMPT to please everyone. Pleasing everyone is impossible. What makes a server "good" is different to every person, so there's no clear-cut list of Dos and Don'ts. Hell, all nine or ten servers I've played have been good ones; it's things that are out of the GMs' hands that caused me to go on my way.

Tl;dr - When you care for the people you play with, it's hard to leave. However, GMs can't be held responsible for every damn person who rubs you the wrong way.


Interesting topic. I'll keep my eye on this one.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: horo on Apr 29, 2009, 12:30 pm
I think a servers setup largely predetermines the kind of community you will get. Unbalanced donates, high rates/max level etc. attract a lot more bad apples than a setup like, say, HeRo has.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: asdfqwerty123 on Apr 29, 2009, 12:44 pm
Drama.
Lack of respect for others.
Abuse/Corruption.

Player "tiffs" and drama can quickly become staff drama if the staff is abusive and corrupt.
General lack of respect for others is what causes a lot of drama situations. The community is important, but staff are suppose to set a standard in public relations. You can't change people, but you can set examples. We had a rule about not bad mouthing staff or flaming others (the anti-drama rules), but that if staff were abusing their power to get proof and report it. Problems don't necessarily originate with staff or need to be directly addressed by staff, for the most part it's best if they stay out of drama. Staff get blamed when they set a bad example or don't enforce rules related to community interaction (flaming and such). Not really drama directly unless they get involved in it themselves, which only makes things ten times worse. Staff help mold the community and let people know what is appropriate or not, but they can't change people.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: ragnadiktus on Apr 30, 2009, 12:36 am
~Donators rule the server
~Lots of Bots
~Roaping and the like...
~PPLs dont care about new PPLs...
~GMs rarely OL

~But this is the type of server I would like to play in so...NVM...XD
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Cielte on May 01, 2009, 02:23 am
~Donators rule the server
~Lots of Bots
~Roaping and the like...
~PPLs dont care about new PPLs...
~GMs rarely OL

~But this is the type of server I would like to play in so...NVM...XD

On topic: ^
Off topic: v

Ehhhh? Sorry, 'roaping' isn't in my vocalb.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Loki on May 01, 2009, 07:53 am
What makes a good server turn bad:

Me. That is to say, the players and the GMs. I find that most people have elaborate on this matter so just pointing out my main opinions.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: mikka on May 09, 2009, 02:17 am
Thirst for more players and power.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Raistlin on May 09, 2009, 02:58 pm
All good servers go bad eventually. It's part of life. It's hard to narrow things down to one particular factor.

Someone already made the point of players being an issue, and I personally think all factors aside, the players are probably the biggest factor. 

Joseph Stalin himself was once asked how would he solve problems. His response?

"Simple. Take out zee people. No people, no problems."

Let's imagine for a moment that the server we're talking about was perfect in every single way. As soon as you enter it, chances are, it won't be perfect anymore. All of us would like to think of ourselves as upright paragons of justice ready to make server A, B, or C a better place with our enlightened presence.

To be honest, most of the time, we just join some established clique, and escalate the tensions that are already existing within it. Those tensions are unavoidable, and are indeed a part of the game.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: John Locke on May 09, 2009, 03:39 pm
Some rates are implicit turning a server bad on mid-long term. Like mid rates full of MVP or Gostring cards. ( raeji, feel etc)

Admin playing and changing WoE times also screws a server. (legacy, etc)
WoE times are sacred, must be decided before server opens and with a clear idea of what part of the world is the server aimed for. Aditional WoE times can be added, but the main must not change.

Admin actitude reflects on server, so if the admin isnt a nice and correct person, the server will follow his example. Not to mention GM friends will act like the forum is their kingdom since they fear no punishment, spam , borderline flaming actitude, etc

Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Frost on May 09, 2009, 10:33 pm
When corrupt GMs/Admins come in, a bad exploit that ruins the game for others. Server gets auctioned to some immature person who doesn't know what he's doing. Things like that.
I think a servers setup largely predetermines the kind of community you will get. Unbalanced donates, high rates/max level etc. attract a lot more bad apples than a setup like, say, HeRo has.
Drama.
Lack of respect for others.
Abuse/Corruption.
~Donators rule the server
~Lots of Bots
~Roaping and the like... (wtf is roaping?)
~PPLs dont care about new PPLs...
~GMs rarely OL

~But this is the type of server I would like to play in so...NVM...XD >.>
Thirst for more players and power.
All good servers go bad eventually. It's part of life. It's hard to narrow things down to one particular factor.

Someone already made the point of players being an issue, and I personally think all factors aside, the players are probably the biggest factor. 

Joseph Stalin himself was once asked how would he solve problems. His response?

"Simple. Take out zee people. No people, no problems."

Let's imagine for a moment that the server we're talking about was perfect in every single way. As soon as you enter it, chances are, it won't be perfect anymore. All of us would like to think of ourselves as upright paragons of justice ready to make server A, B, or C a better place with our enlightened presence.

To be honest, most of the time, we just join some established clique, and escalate the tensions that are already existing within it. Those tensions are unavoidable, and are indeed a part of the game.
(You sound like someone I could debate with for 5 hours lol)


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Couldn't have said it better myself. There are too many things to count that can lead to a corrupted server. So might as well assume the server is already corrupted and try not to let the corruption grow.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Orange on May 10, 2009, 11:54 am
When the admin(or GM's) starts whoring for more players - Like giving items in private for reviews, Going with majority rules to please most people, Even if its something that's going to ruin the server for just under half the server, Turning a blind eye to bots simply because they make the server pop seem higher, and so on

Usually when a GM/admin starts doing everything he can to make players stay, The rest get unhappy and leave(Then the ones he spent so much time getting to stay leave) I've left a few servers because the admin has let people who should be banned just keep on playing because it will hurt the pop
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Ayu on May 10, 2009, 05:27 pm
A server turns bad when it's over your tolerance level on things you personally don't like about a server. There's no clear-cut quantitative guides to when a server is "bad." Most of the time, server is turning bad but to other players in the same server, things are getting better. A good example is a growing population. Some likes the large community to meet more people, and more people will hunt for gears/competition and so shops have more options, but this is bad news for people who like small, tight communities where they want to know everyone else on the server. If you can still tolerate a certain change, server is still good. If you can't, then the server is now "bad."
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Jeon on Jun 03, 2009, 10:56 am
Admins do get money hungry.

I'm a highrate player, personally I want to jump in the game towards PvP instead of spending most of my time leveling and hunting for things that don't want to drop. Some may say that I just want things easily, I agree that I do, but who wouldn't? A player should spend most of his/her time in game learning how to play better not figuring out what items they need to overcome another player.

Sometimes this can be the reason why servers go bad. The staff make it seem too item dependent; meaning having the right items serves a great portion of a battle than having the right skill. Too many servers make it "The longer you player, the better you are" instead of "The harder you play the better you will become". Obviously, the longer a player plays, the more time he/she has to obtain items on a low drop rate. Yet, that's just Lowrate, in which I see is a big waste of time for players.

With high rate anyone can get the item they need, fight me on the same level in a fraction of the time. They don't have to spend countless hours for a item to PvP with someone they cannot beat.

Like I said before, some server go bad because Admins get money hungry, they know players want to be stronger than everyone else. The fastest and easiest way for an Admin to provide this to a player is by giving him/her strong items noone have for a price. This is rinse and repeated a few more times until an admin finally decides he needs to make a new item, so that player can be stronger than everyone else again.

Some Admins stray from that idea and instead make servers more balanced, donation items and custom quest items have the same stats and ofcourse donation items are faster to obtain, but serve no real difference to custom quest items. However an Admin maybe too focused on this idea and make the quest nearly impossible or repetitive to complete. In which a player will soon see no motivation to complete the quest because it just simply takes to long and takes time away from the game.

Another reason could be; Server Rotation. The Staff team is so focused on putting quests and mobs in the way that they forget about rotation. Rotation is the idea of letting players take a break from countless hours of leveling and hunting and play some competitive gaming. Such as PvP or Mini games in which you win items on the side. A cat cant chase a mouse without the mouse, and players wont play without a prize. Staff find it very dangerous to give items to mini-games or PvP matches because it could be exploited. However, this can be avoided in many ways, such as Custom Consumables or Prize BoX where the player opens the box and has a chance on getting an uber item or a custom consumable. Noticing this, Staffs make the assumption that it is dangerous and refuse such a thing. And so on people will get bored in server doing nothing, sure they can finish quests and go hunting but that too is boring and repetitive. So if anything server rotation is a must, you need to keep the players mind stimulated with choices; Capture the Flag, 3v3, 5 Man free for All, and so on.

Having bad players is something every staff should ignore, if anything a player is a player. And you could release some aggression in PvP to release it. Having enemies/bad players give players the will to play and challenge them. Sure the Staff cant please everyone, but they certainly make them understand the issue. Even bad players advertise the server. If anything a bad player should be considered a player before everything. In my perspective a bad player is just someone who doesn't agree, much like saying someone that has their own opinions or the lack of intellect to understand something at a specific level.

Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: horo on Jun 03, 2009, 12:14 pm
Yet the highest level of skill in PvP/WoE you will always find on the really low rate servers. Player skill is quite more important than people make it out to be, and so is being knowledgeable about equipment, rather than just having great gear to begin with but no idea how to utilize it, which describes 95+% of the HR server playerbase.

I think your inability to adopt a server owners point of view causes you to come to a few wrong conclusions, which is a good example why server owners should be wary to listen to their players too much. If the players know better than the server owner, the server is likely no good anyway.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: fluidin on Jun 03, 2009, 12:25 pm
The longer you spend in the game,the better you'll become.

Not because you finally get items with low drop rates, but because you manage to acquire knowledge of a large part of game mechanics. Leveling slowly allows you to experience so much more (and learn as a result) than the HR player.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Jeon on Jun 03, 2009, 04:11 pm
Yet the highest level of skill in PvP/WoE you will always find on the really low rate servers. Player skill is quite more important than people make it out to be, and so is being knowledgeable about equipment, rather than just having great gear to begin with but no idea how to utilize it, which describes 95+% of the HR server playerbase.

That can be arguable depending on the server. It's obvious that every server is played differently than other servers. Also every server has different items. Sure there maybe a some background that they share, however not being able to utilize the game to it's full extent because of countless hours of hunting and grinding can cause a player to drop everything and move on to another server.

The longer you spend in the game,the better you'll become.

Not because you finally get items with low drop rates, but because you manage to acquire knowledge of a large part of game mechanics. Leveling slowly allows you to experience so much more (and learn as a result) than the HR player.

I like your opinion however, being repetitive in regards to grinding and poking monster to level is in no way of gaining much experience at all. Sure you know how to kill an AI, to the extent use just point and click because the monster basically does the same thing over and over. I do agree that you learn the games mechanics by leveling, however this can be said on a HR server also. You may not spend the time it takes on a LR, but on a HR you can learn faster.

It's a fact that when you play competitively, you learn more. In PvP, the opponent is not an AI that repeats what it does. Most of player nowadays set up their builds just for PvP. In my knowledge, grinding levels teaches almost nothing at all other than killing AI's and utilizing skills.

On a HR you can all the skills you need in a record week, on a LR you can only do what you can as of now and hope tomorrow you can get the skill point you need to actually use them.

Like I said before; "The harder you play the better you will become" because if a player really wanted to learn something they would learn it with motivation instead of coming across it in due time.

"The longer you player, the better you are", I believe this to be a weak statement because anyone can can poke monsters for hours and not learn a sense of mechanic at all in the server.

I believe the harder you try the better you become. The more motivated you are the better you will become. Some people are forced to level for hours just to catch up; Everyone wants to be max level wouldn't it be great and just get maxed level in a short amount of time to just finally play the game instead of spending hours killing monster while everyone else is having fun?

If you want players to learn the mechanics, don't lower the rates so you can force the players to use the time they have to level to learn the game mechanics. If anything, they have to be motivated and willingly by choice to learn the game mechanics.

That is my opinion, I believe if a player "wants" to play the server they are willing to learn by "choice" and try hard to understand the game mechanics. Instead of playing for hours and hours to come across something they might have no interest in.

Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: horo on Jun 03, 2009, 04:32 pm
Pretty sure HR players cannot even deal with 'enemies that do the same thing over and over', i.e. Biolabs 3 because they've never perfected their playstyle during 'hunting and grinding'. Obviously PvP is best to learn PvP, and WoE is best to learn WoE, but perfecting the basics is still something you learn during PvM. You're right that motivation to learn is a very important factor, but usually HR players just aren't as dedicated to learning to play their class as much as LR ones because they haven't put any effort into it to begin with.

Then again, I don't think much of people that play RO solely for PvP anyway, as those tend to be the worst kind of players in all respects.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Jeon on Jun 03, 2009, 06:04 pm
That's a pretty broad statement, and a degrading one at that.

Just because you don't "Hunt and Grind" like a LR player doesn't mean you lose all general aspects of the game. There are other ways to learn the mechanics of a server, just by focusing and practicing. To say that HR players don't have the experience to deal with enemies that do the same thing over and over is ignorant. Obviously, I can tell you have something against HR servers, and instead of accepting that they're great RO servers you degrade them.

Perfecting a playstyle is not only dependent on "Hunting and Grinding", sure hunting maybe a factor but grinding isnt. Grinding only teaches you the basic in which in all cases can be learned differently, not just by grinding.

No, perfecting the basics can be learned in many different ways, the obvious way is PvE in which most players tend to choose because that's how it is in almost every MMO. Yet, utilizing all skills to use, is learned by PvP. Anyone can spam a skill on a monster for hours because a monster just does the same thing over and over. However, playing in PvP tell your mind to utilize most of your skills because your opponent isn't just gonna stand and take a beating.

What's the difference between LR and HR? Obviously one just levels faster in a short amount of time. "Time" is the only difference, poking monsters and damages are all the same, HR just get more EXP. However, in your case "Time Played" is the key. In my statements I described "Motivation played" to be the key. I know you agree motivation is a factor, but you also imply "Time played" is a greater role. Players being force to sit and grind for hours is no skill at all. When the person does have motivation to learn on a LR, they cant access it in the time frame they want to because it would take too long to obtain the skill points needed to access it. Noone is going to wake up the next day being cheerful knowing that they have to sit and grind for the next few hours for EXP so they can access their skills.

If anything on a Highrate, if I really wanted to sit down and know my skills. I would simply level in an hour or two. Access my skills and then ask a friend to test on to see how the skill would work. Or I could just fight off an MVP with the skills I want to learn.

On a LR, let's say I want to try out this great skill, but I'm 4 skills under before learning it and I don't have enough skill points to access all of them. Obviously on a LR it would take days before I can access them, probably by then I would lose interest and forget about it.

I'm a good example of a HR player, and trust me I can walk through Biolabs 3 fine.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: horo on Jun 03, 2009, 06:18 pm
You're really easy to lure into writing huge posts, I like you :3

Since you mostly repeated your previous arguments, I have little to comment on.

Leveling is somewhat fast (getting gear isn't, but that doesn't make new skills available generally) even at lower rates if you know how to go about it, and only involves excessive amounts of grinding if you want it to.

As for testing builds and skills, that's what stat calcs and test servers are designed for, and even HR don't lend themselves too well to the extensive amount of testing one needs to learn the in and outs of a class.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: SilverStream~ on Jun 03, 2009, 06:41 pm
Thing is, on a low rate you have more devotion and time for your character.  You will always have a stronger connection to something you have been having/doing for a long time.  Also you everything you learn sticks more when playing on a low rate, that's because you spend so much more time on it.

On a high rate you often make a character, but it's very different from the low rates.  You can go out and kill things almost without gear, it takes little time to level and build your character, you won't get the same connection and "home feeling" as you would on a low rate.

A good example of this is not ro, but wow servers.  On the official WoW servers you have to create a person and work with things/people around you for a long time, especially when leveling to lvl 80.  On some private servers you can level to lvl 80 in a week, and you don't get the same community around you, and you're left with a more empty gameplay, since your community and the people around you is half the game.


Leveling on a low rate will teach you the game better, and you will get a better community then on a high rate.

So.. off topic much?  No but really, low rates are better to play if you like playing mmo's, and talking to people, roleplaying and those sorts of things.  On a highrate it's like using cheats for a diablo game.  You get my point.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: fluidin on Jun 03, 2009, 10:08 pm
This is like how you should experience the game as it is supposed to before you attempt to use "cheats".

I have visited highrates before, and ironically the best players (that I have met) amongst them have all had some sort of lowrate experience. And they truly dominate PvP there.

Sure, some people have the motivation to learn while not wanting to pace through the game properly, but those who succeed are RARE. I have one friend (RL) who botted through 20-99 to his PvP champion, and he was sub-champ for his MSRC team, which made it into RWC. He spent hours killing people in PvP everyday though. But he was also at one point top 50 in the world ranking for Gunbound, Top 10 CS nationals, 2k for 2v2 and 3v3.

And these people are RARE. Anw, if you go straight to highrates, doesn't it mean that your motivation to learn the game is already inferior as compared to people determined to slog through lowrates? TBH, both "time played" and "motivation to play" are about as important as each other. Practice = "time played" too if you haven't noticed. And you will find both of them in LRs moreso than HRs.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: LiteX on Jun 04, 2009, 03:35 am
Yet the highest level of skill in PvP/WoE you will always find on the really low rate servers. Player skill is quite more important than people make it out to be, and so is being knowledgeable about equipment, rather than just having great gear to begin with but no idea how to utilize it, which describes 95+% of the HR server playerbase.

That can be arguable depending on the server. It's obvious that every server is played differently than other servers. Also every server has different items. Sure there maybe a some background that they share, however not being able to utilize the game to it's full extent because of countless hours of hunting and grinding can cause a player to drop everything and move on to another server.

The longer you spend in the game,the better you'll become.

Not because you finally get items with low drop rates, but because you manage to acquire knowledge of a large part of game mechanics. Leveling slowly allows you to experience so much more (and learn as a result) than the HR player.

I like your opinion however, being repetitive in regards to grinding and poking monster to level is in no way of gaining much experience at all. Sure you know how to kill an AI, to the extent use just point and click because the monster basically does the same thing over and over. I do agree that you learn the games mechanics by leveling, however this can be said on a HR server also. You may not spend the time it takes on a LR, but on a HR you can learn faster.

It's a fact that when you play competitively, you learn more. In PvP, the opponent is not an AI that repeats what it does. Most of player nowadays set up their builds just for PvP. In my knowledge, grinding levels teaches almost nothing at all other than killing AI's and utilizing skills.

On a HR you can all the skills you need in a record week, on a LR you can only do what you can as of now and hope tomorrow you can get the skill point you need to actually use them.

Like I said before; "The harder you play the better you will become" because if a player really wanted to learn something they would learn it with motivation instead of coming across it in due time.

"The longer you player, the better you are", I believe this to be a weak statement because anyone can can poke monsters for hours and not learn a sense of mechanic at all in the server.

I believe the harder you try the better you become. The more motivated you are the better you will become. Some people are forced to level for hours just to catch up; Everyone wants to be max level wouldn't it be great and just get maxed level in a short amount of time to just finally play the game instead of spending hours killing monster while everyone else is having fun?

If you want players to learn the mechanics, don't lower the rates so you can force the players to use the time they have to level to learn the game mechanics. If anything, they have to be motivated and willingly by choice to learn the game mechanics.

That is my opinion, I believe if a player "wants" to play the server they are willing to learn by "choice" and try hard to understand the game mechanics. Instead of playing for hours and hours to come across something they might have no interest in.




Most HR players are viewed as imbeciles is because most people make a 255 Champ in one day without even knowing how to play one properly

And @fluidin, I agree, this forums also agree too because if you check the job discussion/guides/general discussion, most of the moronic questions come from HR players
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: BRabbit on Jun 04, 2009, 04:02 am
One I can see in EternityRO is the fact that admins favour one guild over another. Sadly, I'm pretty sure every populated private server is like this so changing servers won't help.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Jeon on Jun 04, 2009, 07:36 am
Most of everything I learned was from HR, and I've been playing for 4 years. Most dumbasses do go to HR, that's because they want to learn things fast. The fact that they want to strays away from LR, because they know they don't have the time to compete with others. If anything people only join LR to be with their friends, I on the other hand have always been solo jumping server.

I agree that it is rare to find good players in HR, but in my experience I've come across those who came from LR server and had no idea on how the specific server they joined are played. Sure they might now how to utilize skills, but never did they spam it so fast or never have they seen a fight pass by in 10 seconds. Most fights in a reasonable PvP (such as XileRO) tend to last one minute in a half.

I believe getting items should be easy, how do you obtain knowledge of an item if you don't even have one? You're hunting for hours and hours for a card that doesn't seem to drop, how do you have first hand knowledge of an item that you don't yet have? People don't gain skills just by hunting it, because they simply have it yet. If anything, the person should spend at most 10 minutes - 15 minutes hunting it. Once they have it, test it in PvP. Thinks of ways to use it to their full extent.

Cmon now, if a opponent beats me on a LR because he has certain cards that really give him an advantage. Let's say Garm card, in order for me to come back I will need to hunt for hours finding an anti freeze a card. Probably by then, he would sign off, maybe not play anymore, or just lost the motivation to PvP at all.

Quote


Most HR players are viewed as imbeciles is because most people make a 255 Champ in one day without even knowing how to play one properly

And @fluidin, I agree, this forums also agree too because if you check the job discussion/guides/general discussion, most of the moronic questions come from HR players

Is it wrong to ask questions? You're a moron for not asking questions in my perspective. Whether it is moronic or not, it's a question just like any other, it shares a motivation for knowledge. This is proof that most of the questions that are being asked are from HR, because they want to learn.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: LiteX on Jun 04, 2009, 08:47 am
Most of everything I learned was from HR, and I've been playing for 4 years. Most dumbasses do go to HR, that's because they want to learn things fast. The fact that they want to strays away from LR, because they know they don't have the time to compete with others. If anything people only join LR to be with their friends, I on the other hand have always been solo jumping server.

I agree that it is rare to find good players in HR, but in my experience I've come across those who came from LR server and had no idea on how the specific server they joined are played. Sure they might now how to utilize skills, but never did they spam it so fast or never have they seen a fight pass by in 10 seconds. Most fights in a reasonable PvP (such as XileRO) tend to last one minute in a half.

I believe getting items should be easy, how do you obtain knowledge of an item if you don't even have one? You're hunting for hours and hours for a card that doesn't seem to drop, how do you have first hand knowledge of an item that you don't yet have? People don't gain skills just by hunting it, because they simply have it yet. If anything, the person should spend at most 10 minutes - 15 minutes hunting it. Once they have it, test it in PvP. Thinks of ways to use it to their full extent.

Cmon now, if a opponent beats me on a LR because he has certain cards that really give him an advantage. Let's say Garm card, in order for me to come back I will need to hunt for hours finding an anti freeze a card. Probably by then, he would sign off, maybe not play anymore, or just lost the motivation to PvP at all.

Quote


Most HR players are viewed as imbeciles is because most people make a 255 Champ in one day without even knowing how to play one properly

And @fluidin, I agree, this forums also agree too because if you check the job discussion/guides/general discussion, most of the moronic questions come from HR players

Is it wrong to ask questions? You're a moron for not asking questions in my perspective. Whether it is moronic or not, it's a question just like any other, it shares a motivation for knowledge. This is proof that most of the questions that are being asked are from HR, because they want to learn.

1) The best way to learn is by slowly grinding and seeing which technic is best during your leveling
2) HRs tend to be overcustomized, which nulls the legit experience for some LR players
3) Fights in LR passing faster than HR? =_=, EDP SB and Asura can kill someone if less than three seconds, if it's not that than it is YggBerry spammage (Ppl carry hundreds of them in HR), and there is protection and potting for increasing fight duration
4) This is why test servers are for, for testing card combos
5) Mostly, server veterans who have a high amount of skill,luck and patience are the only ones who get such rare cards, someone who recently joined a server shan't be able to kill a vet
6) Most of these questions are overasked questions, please, the search button exists for a reason, if they just go posting out of the blue without using it then it proves they are somewhat on the wrong spot, of course, they want to learn, but please, how would you like if your worldwide RO discussion forums were filled with questions like "HOW DO I MINE 4 FISH PLZ!!!", "HEY PLZ GM UNBAN ME!!!", honestly, these questions are made by impatient people who really don't know wtf is happening and they just post out of the blues, and what by "You're a moron by not asking questions?", well, simple, I ASK QUESTIONS, usually I test some things out and ask someone who is more knowledgeble than me (Mainly horo) about them if I have any difficulties, the thing is, my questions usually have some though and good spelling on them, not like "PLZ PLZ WHERE I GET STUFF, GUIDE PLX", most of these kinds of questions come from HR players, mainly the big-name ones like ScythRO, XileRO and aeRO
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: horo on Jun 04, 2009, 09:19 am
HOW DO I MINE 4 FISH PLZ!!!

I search for this and don't find an answert -_- please GM??? my server is darksuperbloodRO, help -_- im also bannd.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: fluidin on Jun 04, 2009, 09:42 am
lol'd.

Also, that you think LR players have never seen a fight last less than 10 seconds is fail already. It just reinforces my view that further discussion with you regarding that particular aspect is useless :x I also doubt XileRO is decent pvp. Watch RWC vids for decent pvp instead.

We have knowledge about certain cards even if we don't have them because we plan beforehand. Always curious, always looking for new ways to utilize game mechanics, always playing with the calcs.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Jeon on Jun 04, 2009, 12:02 pm
HOW DO I MINE 4 FISH PLZ!!!

I search for this and don't find an answert -_- please GM??? my server is darksuperbloodRO, help -_- im also bannd.


So you let that statement speak of the rest of HR players?


Quote
1) The best way to learn is by slowly grinding and seeing which technic is best during your leveling

That's only best for leveling, plus anyone can poke and spam a monster that basically does the same thing over and over.

Quote
2) HRs tend to be overcustomized, which nulls the legit experience for some LR players

That totally depends on the server, RO isn't made for LR players. Every players comes from a different background depending on which server they played first. The only legit experience is from the real RO, the one that Gravity intended us to play. I've seen a lot of LR that have a lot of customs, so saying that HR servers are the only ones that are over customized is ignorant. Every server is different you cannot play the way you did on another server.

Quote
3) Fights in LR passing faster than HR? =_=, EDP SB and Asura can kill someone if less than three seconds, if it's not that than it is YggBerry spammage (Ppl carry hundreds of them in HR), and there is protection and potting for increasing fight duration

Little did you know some HR carry a Anti YGG system. Obviously Most Devs and Admins know how stupid it is to carry hundreds of YGGs into battle. It'll be a forever going battle. Just because you hear HR, doesn't mean YGG spammage. This could be avoided in HR as much as they are in LR. Also, EDP and Asura is easily scripted so that it is most reasonable in PvP. EDP SinX cant use consumables, and Asura Capped. Just because you hear HR, doesn't mean we let things go off the way it is. It's a private server and most of the smarts one knows how to manage a reasonable server. Unlike those who just want money.

Quote
4) This is why test servers are for, for testing card combos

Yes, because a player is actually gonna go through all that trouble just to test a few cards /sarcasm. Funny thing how you mention that, a player will actually have to duplicate the cards and combos of that specific server their playing. Every server isnt the same, some Devs choose specific ways to script their cards. So making a test server to match the server that their playing on is too much trouble just for card combos and skills testing.

Quote
5) Mostly, server veterans who have a high amount of skill,luck and patience are the only ones who get such rare cards, someone who recently joined a server shan't be able to kill a vet

I Lol'd at this statement. So you're saying if I played RO for a few years and just joined a new server, I'm already stupid because I haven't played as along as Vet's on the server? No a person who has no life spends all day hunting cards, it matters how you use "patience". Countless hours of hunting something that drops no more than 1% is patience, Ill give you that, but it's patience wasted. "Time played" should not distinguish player's skills. "Experienced gained" is the proper term. No one cares how long you did it, how fast you did it, as long as you learn something from it, that's all that matters. And I'm telling you guys "Grinding and Hunting" is not the only way to be learn things, there's other ways. Also, I think every player should stand on a same level as any other player on a item basis that is. The outcome of a battle should be skill dependent on how a player can utilize his/her skills to combat the opponent, not by how long you played the server and how long you sat for hours hunting an item. Utilizing skills should be attained on how much experience you gained while playing the server now how long you played the server.

Quote
6) Most of these questions are overasked questions, please, the search button exists for a reason, if they just go posting out of the blue without using it then it proves they are somewhat on the wrong spot, of course, they want to learn, but please, how would you like if your worldwide RO discussion forums were filled with questions like "HOW DO I MINE 4 FISH PLZ!!!", "HEY PLZ GM UNBAN ME!!!", honestly, these questions are made by impatient people who really don't know wtf is happening and they just post out of the blues, and what by "You're a moron by not asking questions?", well, simple, I ASK QUESTIONS, usually I test some things out and ask someone who is more knowledgeble than me (Mainly horo) about them if I have any difficulties, the thing is, my questions usually have some though and good spelling on them, not like "PLZ PLZ WHERE I GET STUFF, GUIDE PLX", most of these kinds of questions come from HR players, mainly the big-name ones like ScythRO, XileRO and aeRO

Wow, you obviously have no perspective. Not everyone speaks English,and also the way that kids speak on the internet is somewhat slang. You cannot blame them for speaking like that, especially those who don't know good English. A question is a question, no matter how you put it. A question will ask for knowledge, it doesn't matter if the question has bed spelling error. If anything, you have to be tolerant about it, if you don't understand simply ask for clarification, that's if you have the Patience. In this case, I know you don't.

Obviously it's good to test thing before asking, yet not everyone thinks that way, you shouldn't assume people will test it before asking.

Also, I'm not talking to only, I don't care if you questions have good spelling. The trust and fact is that most people don't speak English. Someone with enough integrity should accept that to be how society is. If you go anal about someone elses spelling, then I can tell you're a hypocrite saying us HR have no patience when you yourself don't have patience to be tolerant to bad grammar.

lol'd.

Also, that you think LR players have never seen a fight last less than 10 seconds is fail already. It just reinforces my view that further discussion with you regarding that particular aspect is useless :x I also doubt XileRO is decent pvp. Watch RWC vids for decent pvp instead.

I never said that LR players have never seen a fight less than 10 seconds nor did I imply it. Yet if you were to somehow measure the time frame of HR to LR, you will see that HR battles seem to go by faster.

XileRo is the only HR I know that has a reasonable PvP system. I did watch the RWC like you said, all I see is people spamming the room like every other gang fight there is in RO.


We have knowledge about certain cards even if we don't have them because we plan beforehand. Always curious, always looking for new ways to utilize game mechanics, always playing with the calcs.

And I'm not disagreeing with you that some players already know the effects of certain cards. Obviously anyone who has experience will know the effects. However due to private servers some cards maybe re-scripted to fit the server's specifics. Any server can play with the calc, obviously like I said numerous times before some calcs don't fit the server's customs profile. What you see on the calc may not be what it is on the server, vice versa. The argument I'm trying to pull is that, there are ways to utilize the game mechanics other than "Grinding and Hunting", in this case most HR give players choices to experience the game another way rather than the same old "Grinding and Hunting" like every other MMO. Dont get me wrong I agree that "Grinding and Hunting" works to help newbies learn the games mechanics, but I also agree that there are other ways.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: horo on Jun 04, 2009, 12:19 pm
You're assuming a 99/70 HR with high droprates on everything but overpowering cards (boss/mvp) and gears I assume? Plus Ygg restrictions and whatnot you need to desperately keep the inherent flaws of HR to a minimum, when I seriously doubt such a server even exists to begin with. HR are usually more unbalanced equipment/class wise than LR, the imbalance just moves up a tier or two.

Looking solely at the players, almost all the innovations in gameplay/builds/gear have come from official servers, from players "with no life", from sakray testing and stat calculators. Hunting and grinding is a great way to perfect techniques such as dancing and get a feel for every single aspect of your class, which is something that eludes HR players. The HR players you portray are some kind of idealistic myth that most of us that have played HR server know does not exist in reality, or is far rarer than card drops on LR servers.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Jeon on Jun 04, 2009, 12:49 pm
You're assuming a 99/70 HR with high droprates on everything but overpowering cards (boss/mvp) and gears I assume? Plus Ygg restrictions and whatnot you need to desperately keep the inherent flaws of HR to a minimum, when I seriously doubt such a server even exists to begin with. HR are usually more unbalanced equipment/class wise than LR, the imbalance just moves up a tier or two.

I never said perfectly balanced. If you read closely, I've been using the word "reasonable" instead of balance/ed. No server is perfectly balanced. Of course a LR would seem more closer to balance than a HR, because you need to keep the inherent flaws of a HR server to a minimum like you said. It is unbalanced compared to a LR because of customs and stats management. Like I said before, every server reaches for a reasonable fitting. With enough work, you can get a HR server to actually keep the inherent flaws to a minimum.

Looking solely at the players, almost all the innovations in gameplay/builds/gear have come from official servers, from players "with no life", from sakray testing and stat calculators. Hunting and grinding is a great way to perfect techniques such as dancing and get a feel for every single aspect of your class, which is something that eludes HR players. The HR players you portray are some kind of idealistic myth that most of us that have played HR server know does not exist in reality, or is far rarer than card drops on LR servers.

I agree, Hunting and grinding is a great way to perfect techniques. Yet, it's not the only way. I do agree "Grinding and Hunting" is something that ignores HR players, yet it's still and option for them. Grinding may not be a factor simply because the server is HR. Hunting however can be just the same, on a HR we actually buff the MVPs and certain important monsters so that it's not too easy nor too hard. And a reward will be given if the opposing monster is killed. It may not be 100% drop but it certainly will not be under 1%. LR players aren't the choice makers in everything. You portray that LR players are the ones that are more important and should make the decisions. Some HR players do learn just by playing HR servers. Every server has its own share of dumb players, saying that most come from HR server is ignorant. In perspective there are more HR server than they are LR server, thus leading to more population of HR players and dumb players from HR.

I'm a good example of a HR player that knows what he's doing most of the time. I may not know everything and I have never claim that I did. Yet, saying HR player have no experience at all is a broad statement. If anything kids actually hurt themselves while playing is because the game itself is too slow moving. Kids will spend countless hours just grinding and playing the game. Usually for me it's just level in a day, next day hunt, gather the things I need, and just PvP. All of this hunting and gathering can be done in a week or two, then I can finally jump in the game and play it.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Hutchy on Jun 04, 2009, 05:36 pm
I'm not quite sure if this qualifies for "off topic" or not.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: SilverStream~ on Jun 04, 2009, 05:44 pm
My god, I don't have perfect english, but there are standards for communication when playing online games =.='

offert pls
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: fluidin on Jun 04, 2009, 09:52 pm
So you think a p.server has a "reasonable pvp system" when compared to RWC. "every other gang fight"~



Ok, good luck :D
Title: Re: What makes a halfbad server gone worse?
Post by: SilverStream~ on Jun 04, 2009, 10:08 pm
 (http://www.ratemyserver.net/forum/index.php/topic,9989.msg71986.html#msg71986)

Linking to my short rant I made just a few minutes ago.  It's relevant to the thread's original topic.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Descent on Jun 04, 2009, 10:48 pm
Oh hey cool, another incredibly annoying "HR players vs LR players" derailment.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: LiteX on Jun 05, 2009, 03:28 am
HOW DO I MINE 4 FISH PLZ!!!

I search for this and don't find an answert -_- please GM??? my server is darksuperbloodRO, help -_- im also bannd.


So you let that statement speak of the rest of HR players?


Quote
1) The best way to learn is by slowly grinding and seeing which technic is best during your leveling

That's only best for leveling, plus anyone can poke and spam a monster that basically does the same thing over and over.

Quote
2) HRs tend to be overcustomized, which nulls the legit experience for some LR players

That totally depends on the server, RO isn't made for LR players. Every players comes from a different background depending on which server they played first. The only legit experience is from the real RO, the one that Gravity intended us to play. I've seen a lot of LR that have a lot of customs, so saying that HR servers are the only ones that are over customized is ignorant. Every server is different you cannot play the way you did on another server.

Quote
3) Fights in LR passing faster than HR? =_=, EDP SB and Asura can kill someone if less than three seconds, if it's not that than it is YggBerry spammage (Ppl carry hundreds of them in HR), and there is protection and potting for increasing fight duration

Little did you know some HR carry a Anti YGG system. Obviously Most Devs and Admins know how stupid it is to carry hundreds of YGGs into battle. It'll be a forever going battle. Just because you hear HR, doesn't mean YGG spammage. This could be avoided in HR as much as they are in LR. Also, EDP and Asura is easily scripted so that it is most reasonable in PvP. EDP SinX cant use consumables, and Asura Capped. Just because you hear HR, doesn't mean we let things go off the way it is. It's a private server and most of the smarts one knows how to manage a reasonable server. Unlike those who just want money.

Quote
4) This is why test servers are for, for testing card combos

Yes, because a player is actually gonna go through all that trouble just to test a few cards /sarcasm. Funny thing how you mention that, a player will actually have to duplicate the cards and combos of that specific server their playing. Every server isnt the same, some Devs choose specific ways to script their cards. So making a test server to match the server that their playing on is too much trouble just for card combos and skills testing.

Quote
5) Mostly, server veterans who have a high amount of skill,luck and patience are the only ones who get such rare cards, someone who recently joined a server shan't be able to kill a vet

I Lol'd at this statement. So you're saying if I played RO for a few years and just joined a new server, I'm already stupid because I haven't played as along as Vet's on the server? No a person who has no life spends all day hunting cards, it matters how you use "patience". Countless hours of hunting something that drops no more than 1% is patience, Ill give you that, but it's patience wasted. "Time played" should not distinguish player's skills. "Experienced gained" is the proper term. No one cares how long you did it, how fast you did it, as long as you learn something from it, that's all that matters. And I'm telling you guys "Grinding and Hunting" is not the only way to be learn things, there's other ways. Also, I think every player should stand on a same level as any other player on a item basis that is. The outcome of a battle should be skill dependent on how a player can utilize his/her skills to combat the opponent, not by how long you played the server and how long you sat for hours hunting an item. Utilizing skills should be attained on how much experience you gained while playing the server now how long you played the server.

Quote
6) Most of these questions are overasked questions, please, the search button exists for a reason, if they just go posting out of the blue without using it then it proves they are somewhat on the wrong spot, of course, they want to learn, but please, how would you like if your worldwide RO discussion forums were filled with questions like "HOW DO I MINE 4 FISH PLZ!!!", "HEY PLZ GM UNBAN ME!!!", honestly, these questions are made by impatient people who really don't know wtf is happening and they just post out of the blues, and what by "You're a moron by not asking questions?", well, simple, I ASK QUESTIONS, usually I test some things out and ask someone who is more knowledgeble than me (Mainly horo) about them if I have any difficulties, the thing is, my questions usually have some though and good spelling on them, not like "PLZ PLZ WHERE I GET STUFF, GUIDE PLX", most of these kinds of questions come from HR players, mainly the big-name ones like ScythRO, XileRO and aeRO

Wow, you obviously have no perspective. Not everyone speaks English,and also the way that kids speak on the internet is somewhat slang. You cannot blame them for speaking like that, especially those who don't know good English. A question is a question, no matter how you put it. A question will ask for knowledge, it doesn't matter if the question has bed spelling error. If anything, you have to be tolerant about it, if you don't understand simply ask for clarification, that's if you have the Patience. In this case, I know you don't.

Obviously it's good to test thing before asking, yet not everyone thinks that way, you shouldn't assume people will test it before asking.

Also, I'm not talking to only, I don't care if you questions have good spelling. The trust and fact is that most people don't speak English. Someone with enough integrity should accept that to be how society is. If you go anal about someone elses spelling, then I can tell you're a hypocrite saying us HR have no patience when you yourself don't have patience to be tolerant to bad grammar.

lol'd.

Also, that you think LR players have never seen a fight last less than 10 seconds is fail already. It just reinforces my view that further discussion with you regarding that particular aspect is useless :x I also doubt XileRO is decent pvp. Watch RWC vids for decent pvp instead.

I never said that LR players have never seen a fight less than 10 seconds nor did I imply it. Yet if you were to somehow measure the time frame of HR to LR, you will see that HR battles seem to go by faster.

XileRo is the only HR I know that has a reasonable PvP system. I did watch the RWC like you said, all I see is people spamming the room like every other gang fight there is in RO.


We have knowledge about certain cards even if we don't have them because we plan beforehand. Always curious, always looking for new ways to utilize game mechanics, always playing with the calcs.

And I'm not disagreeing with you that some players already know the effects of certain cards. Obviously anyone who has experience will know the effects. However due to private servers some cards maybe re-scripted to fit the server's specifics. Any server can play with the calc, obviously like I said numerous times before some calcs don't fit the server's customs profile. What you see on the calc may not be what it is on the server, vice versa. The argument I'm trying to pull is that, there are ways to utilize the game mechanics other than "Grinding and Hunting", in this case most HR give players choices to experience the game another way rather than the same old "Grinding and Hunting" like every other MMO. Dont get me wrong I agree that "Grinding and Hunting" works to help newbies learn the games mechanics, but I also agree that there are other ways.


1) Poke and spam? You really are an idiot, HR players are the ones who do that, most LRs and MRs have a sense of changing strats, leveling areas and such, most HR players just stick with the same strat cuz "We kill and don't need improvement", honestly, a man who fights hard for his bread everyday is more experienced and developed than a man who obtains his bread by begging

2) RO not made for LR? puh-leez, MvP cards are NOT supposed to be chugged up on a server on a 9001/day ratio! This is what makes them special!

3) EDP SB and Asura pretty much destroys some points about HR PvP

4) RMS has a free test server, and it is usually the same card script execpt for brokey HRs

5) When I meant by that I meant as "A skilled person should be able to know how to obtain X s***" you misunderstood my post

6) Umm...you are seriously ignoring the critical points, most of the rants are about players nagging to their GMs on RMS, which is very stupid on the first place, not to mention the number of HR ignoramous who start posting idiotic arguements saying "lol my 255 sinx can beat thana 5 seconds and u need party and ten minutes, lol noob" in other words, don't blame us, but try to educate YOUR community

On Topic: Usually, GM Drama can also make players leave
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: horo on Jun 05, 2009, 05:12 am
I'd like to declare that LiteX does neither represent my side of the argument nor LR players and I apologize on his behalf to anyone, especially Jeon, that had to read the incredibly misinformed post above, which resulted from a severe reading disability he has been battling with for a long time  :(
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: fluidin on Jun 05, 2009, 05:25 am
You should further reinforce your point by saying "But at least he is still better than most HR players."



lol jk guise.  :-[
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Descent on Jun 05, 2009, 08:01 am
Okay, apparently I was completely ignored.

Here we go! Hopefully this will get you off of your respective soapboxes and down here with the rest of us.

HR players: Annoying bastards who are fickle, complain at the drop of a hat, and throw a hissy-fit when things don't go their way.

LR players: Elitist bastards who are fickle, complain at the drop of a hat, and throw a hissy-fit when things don't go their way.

There, you're all exactly the same, can we settle this and get this back on topic? If not, I'm just going to start slapping you all around with Warns if you don't move on and grow up.

P.S.: RWC is a joke and is sh*t to watch. Want to jump down my throat for it, too?
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Jeon on Jun 05, 2009, 09:01 am
I'd like to declare that LiteX does neither represent my side of the argument nor LR players and I apologize on his behalf to anyone, especially Jeon, that had to read the incredibly misinformed post above, which resulted from a severe reading disability he has been battling with for a long time  :(

Thank you, obviously there's an intellectual level when I'm talking you and I like it. With LiteX, I just read the first few words and I can see he's totally talking out of anger, enough for me to disregard his post and just move on.

@Topic

A server is great when the Admin takes in the player's knowledge and suggestions into consideration, then make up an idea with them on his/her terms. Players of the server should have a say, but in the end it's up to the Staff/Admin to make the right choice for them considering the player's voice that is.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Skotlex on Jun 05, 2009, 01:40 pm
Please split topic, a "HR vs LR player quality" is a worthy thread for entertainment (and someday it will make it into the soap opera subforum), but it is definitely out of the scope of the original thread title here.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: SilverStream~ on Jun 05, 2009, 04:06 pm
There's a huge difference between normal hr players and normal lr players.  The only ones that are the same, are people who have played on both, and played them for a while so they know each sides equally.

We're not the biggest crowd in the world, but we can atleast tell things from both sides.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Descent on Jun 05, 2009, 04:28 pm
There's a huge difference between normal hr players and normal lr players.  The only ones that are the same, are people who have played on both, and played them for a while so they know each sides equally.

We're not the biggest crowd in the world, but we can atleast tell things from both sides.

I'm in that crowd. :O Hence why I get aggravated when people spark the whole "HR nub" vs "LR Elitist" debate.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: SilverStream~ on Jun 05, 2009, 04:46 pm
Yeah it's kind of stupid to keep arguing over it.  too bad most low rates are slowly getting less members, and more go to mid rates.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Descent on Jun 05, 2009, 04:52 pm
Yeah it's kind of stupid to keep arguing over it.  too bad most low rates are slowly getting less members, and more go to mid rates.

I just wish people would keep one key point in mind: You're all playing the same game. Regardless of rates, Customs, server, et cetera, you're all brought together by Ragnarok Online, and the segregation is what's hurting every server out there, currently.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: SilverStream~ on Jun 05, 2009, 05:01 pm
Imagine how it would be if everyone played the same server.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Descent on Jun 05, 2009, 05:20 pm
Imagine how it would be if everyone played the same server.

It'd be total chaos, of course. I'm not opting for that, but a little give-and-take from each side would be quite nice.

I've played rates as low as 4/4/1 and as high as 3K/3K/100. Each time, the experience is the same, and LR players, take note...

...at certain rates, it takes that "HR nub" the same amount of time to make a 255 character as it would take an LR player to make a 99.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: horo on Jun 05, 2009, 05:25 pm
While HR discussions pertaining to droprates can be fine somewhat at least, max level discussions will certainly end in ruin so let's not go there.

I do agree that segregation is hurting the private server community, that's actually a topic worth discussing.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: SilverStream~ on Jun 05, 2009, 05:54 pm
Descent.. you never played on the official servers?
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Descent on Jun 05, 2009, 06:02 pm
Descent.. you never played on the official servers?

Nope. Why?
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: SilverStream~ on Jun 05, 2009, 06:18 pm
You get a completely different experience then private servers.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Descent on Jun 05, 2009, 06:54 pm
You get a completely different experience then private servers.

I guess I never felt it necessary to pay a monthly fee for a game I could play for free.

That and I've heard the horror stories about officials.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Hutchy on Jun 05, 2009, 06:59 pm
The only thing that was really different between official and private, to me, was the community. The few people I ran across were very VERY friendly, and extremely helpful. Didn't find a single bad egg.

Still not worth the fee and the grind.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Jeon on Jun 05, 2009, 07:49 pm
I've never played official either. Like others Fee and Grind is something I like to stray away from. However, I did play a game I had to pay monthly for. FFXI, Long story short, I played for a week and was so addicted that I only got 15 hours of sleep that whole week. I decided I wasn't going to be that person and just quit.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: SilverStream~ on Jun 05, 2009, 08:18 pm
I have three or four box sets of FFXI.  One the first one, with one month free play, then another one with the first expansion and one month free play, then another with two expansions and another month free play and one with three expansions(?) and one month of free play.

I have a huge book on the game too somewhere around here I think.  But I've only played it for two days xD
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Irrelevant on Jun 05, 2009, 08:49 pm
The only thing that was really different between official and private, to me, was the community. The few people I ran across were very VERY friendly, and extremely helpful. Didn't find a single bad egg.

Still not worth the fee and the grind.

You'll find bad eggs, even on officials. Hell, I had a lot of trouble trying to find a guild who'd lend a helping hand just because I took the bad choice of going spirit monk; the average guild master's reply? "Full asura or GTFO." Even still, you're right, most of the community on official are quite the nicest peeps I've ever met on RO.

But, like you said, still not worth the fee and grind.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: LiteX on Jun 05, 2009, 11:23 pm
I have also played officials and some HRs, I can tell most of the e-peens and idiots come from HRs, but I also think not all of them are morons, but isn't this getting a little... off topic? It went to "What makes a server fall from grace" to "HR vs LR discussion" to "LR has elitists and HR has morons" to "Have you played an official server?"

@horo, I do agree such segregation is killing the servers, nowadays, for every server that dies, two or three spring up, this is making a gigantic player gap.

@On-topic: Usually, admins being off for a long time can cause this too
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Descent on Jun 05, 2009, 11:55 pm
Admins who make promises and can't keep up with them don't really cut it, either. That's the problem my Guild and I are having on our current RO server.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Zelos on Jun 06, 2009, 08:53 pm
Inactive staff/administrator. How most servers die, actually.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: SilverStream~ on Jun 06, 2009, 09:21 pm
Admins releasing bad content or content that the players think is boring, could make a server die over time.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: LiteX on Jun 06, 2009, 11:23 pm
Admins releasing bad content or content that the players think is boring, could make a server die over time.

Overnerfing can cause something of this, a the admin of a server i've played allowed asura to be reduced be DEF, and he made Thanatos not affect it later on, after this many champs left
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: SilverStream~ on Jun 07, 2009, 03:24 am
Very true, the nerfing for pvp is half okay, since the game was originally never designed to have tons of mvp cards or high end gear.

Since alot of servers nerf, the need to find a server that doesnt have some spesific, unnecessary nerfs becomes greater then the need to play on their current server.  Thus alot of players leave to find that place without the nerfs.

Happens all the time with servers that are all "balanced gameplay!", meaning actually "we nerfed all your precious gear so you can't use it the way it was made to be used!".
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: horo on Jun 07, 2009, 03:28 am
LR servers are easy to balance elegantly if one knows the game well, MR-HR are impossible to balance and any attempts will only end in the frustration of its players.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Skotlex on Jun 07, 2009, 08:39 am
Happens all the time with servers that are all "balanced gameplay!", meaning actually "we nerfed all your precious gear so you can't use it the way it was made to be used!".
Though to be fair, in a highly populated MMORPG, gears are balanced because the average player has no chance in hell of acquiring the highly "unbalanced" gears and it is balanced that way because you are probably going to get owned by it only once in your lifetime.

And that's the kind of balancing I never really liked in games anyway.
Title: Re: What makes a good server gone bad?
Post by: Ayu on Jun 08, 2009, 03:15 pm
Happens all the time with servers that are all "balanced gameplay!", meaning actually "we nerfed all your precious gear so you can't use it the way it was made to be used!".
Though to be fair, in a highly populated MMORPG, gears are balanced because the average player has no chance in hell of acquiring the highly "unbalanced" gears and it is balanced that way because you are probably going to get owned by it only once in your lifetime.

Either that, or it's a gear that does allow you to dominate in those 1vs1 or 2vs2 setting, but once it's in a GvG or FFA type of thing, the zerg rush still wins.