[Why not to] buy Private Server

[darkshines]

Hi.  I would like to run a private RO server, but I don't really know how to set one up or anything.  I would be interested in learning, if I had no other choice..  but really I would just prefer to ...

^ case for discussion only, this is not a topic to buy or sell servers.  Forum do not allow such activities.

[Lysander]

If you aren't willing to put forth the effort in making a server, what makes you think you have the proper technical prowess, motivation, or worth ethic in running it?

Either commit yourself to learning all you need to know, or save players the trouble and don't bother. A server is not a lemonade stand you can simply buy and start running. Unfortunately, it seems as though everyone that creates a server thinks it's easy. It never is.

[Strudel]

What Lysander said.. seriously you should be ashamed of yourself...

[darkshines]

Well no. I am not ashamed of myself for not being interested in "putting in the effort" to learning how to make a private server.  I KNOW I do not have the knowledge or technical prowess to do so.    I do not know how to set up a server, or how to script.  If I tried to do it, I'd be fooling myself to think that I would end up with the outcome that I have in mind.   It may not be the best example, but the person who OWNS your favorite pizza place probably does not know how to make the dough.   I doubt the people who own Walmart have a huge amount of knowledge about how to set up their POS systems.  The point is, I have been playing this game for 10+ years.  I love RO and know it well.  I have a lot of really great ideas for a server, and think that the end result would be rather unique.  I have the money to back a server, and would HIRE (actually pay) a staff who is knowledgable about the things that I am not.  Basically I want to fund a server with creative control, and hire people who actually KNOW what they are doing, instead of me trying to act like a know it all and try to figure it out for myself.   I am not looking to buy someones server so I can log in and sit in pront and be like sup biches this is MY server now.   I am just looking for something basic to start breaking down, and build up, and basically start working from.   I am not sure what is so shameful about that.

[Strudel]

Yes you should be because if anything happens you'll always have to reply on others to fix it for you, you'll never be independent.
server goes down: "omg omg omg what to do?"
certain server error/warning output: "no idea *ignore*"
player bug/error report: "no idea what it means.. *ignore*"
Backup db? "no idea"
Backup db? "what db?"
hire staff, staff disappears, server experiences a hickup or loop "sorry I can't restart or fix the error, other dev not here"
*ignore*" server security? "yeah we got that, 5 of my gm's got full access to root to modify anything they wish to as well as give their characters all the items they desire, win"

being an owner is more than just paying the bills known the 298 or depending if you added some custom commands, commands, and their duplicates which most of them have about 2-4. ie. @time, @date, @servertime, @serverdate
loving ro is 1 good thing and it helps but that also puts a bad part on the entire gaming, if you become an owner or gm with @item powers in general you should stop playing because 90% become corrupt with their power, give themselves items to beat others in pvp, woe and pvm and what do they prove? nothing, none of the items are legit, and even if some of them are, well you made the rest via @item so what's the big deal you cheated.
Good ideas don't make a gm, they make a good supportive player, knowing things about the game with knowledge of technical aspects makes a good gm, but don't forget you got to have a mature attitude towards everything even the little silly things players do.

What's it going to do to you? if you got a server up and running and you want to have a healer or an item giver, and nobody is there to give you one, or do special things that make you different from other servers, you're going to need a scripter, it's hard to find reliable scripters and most are going to be paid services nowadays since why should they bother with their time when they could else be wanking off to some yaoi stuff.

Why would anybody in their right mind simply sell of their server unless you pay a considerably high amount of money, or the server is doing considerably bad, in which case why bother buying it, servers usually don't do well when people, players, hear it was sold off, they feel betrayed by their administration.

[Yukino]

Well actually, the Pizza Pizza owner of the store nearby has his own shifts to make pizza and other menu items for the customers... but anyways. It may be true for some, but I'm pretty sure that owners are supposed to be more knowledgeable in one way or another. They do not just hire people--they have skills of their own in order to be an entrepreneur in the first place. THEN, they begin to have business, get more workers, etc.

I am just worried that in the end, you would not have good control of your server. If you hire people (either paid for for free), there are several chances for corruption that you would not be aware about, especially if you do not know where to check or how to edit certain files. In other words, you would be given complete control of the server to your developers, and who knows what they can truly do to lie to you about their works, etc. Being an Administrator is very difficult, especially in selecting good staff members who will be loyal and honest. If you have no idea how to do the simplest of editing, checking SQL tables, logs, and so forth, you will run into trouble very soon. It also depends on how big you want your server to be... Though, players tend to trust servers with knowledgeable Administrators.

Players can easily accuse you of corruption, even if it is your server, and in the end, it depends if reputation and population mean a lot to you or not. Just a warning, you should at least get some basic skills before even considering this kind of option. You need to put at least some effort to understanding how to edit such files, but it's up to you if you truly want to do what you stated in your first post. Furthermore, several RO hosters help "set up" your server in the first place--you have to learn how to edit your rates and really basic/standard edits on your own or pay the ones that offer such services. I don't know your meaning behind the "set up" server that you want to buy.

[yC]

The paid services disallow the buy and sell of servers for a reason.  http://forum.ratemyserver.net/paid-services/paid-services-rules-and-limits-effective-december-1st-2010/

Your topic shouldn't be in this forum, or anywhere else.  We do not encourage this kind of activities for all the reason stated by the other members above.  Only those have the knowledge should run a server.  Paying your way out is never a good idea.  The problem is not only with you, you showing your stack of money asking this question will attract ill-intentioned people that is simply out to scam your money.  You may get scammed 10 times before you end up with anything usable.  It have happened, many many times in history.  Some people paid a hosting company for a slightly customized server, ended up they didn't get the product they paid for.  Simply, do not ask and do not trust anyone that approach you to sell you anything.  Furthermore, do not look for it.

You have a lot of good idea, that's fine, you can find a promising server of your choice and join their team to contribute your ideas.

I'll modify this topic to let continue the discussion.  The title itself is a violation and is asking for trouble.

Btw, when buy and sell isn't allowed.  Recommendations are not allowed neither.  It's the same thing.

[darkshines]

You are all dreaming up possible scenarios, and slapping down my idea because of them.  None of you know me, and who are you to say how involved I will or will not be, or what level of power I would allow my GMs to have.  Not to mention that a lot of things that you all have mentioned are considerations that led to the idea of offering monitary compensation for services provided by my staff.  And you are just assuming that I would not try to learn the important things as I am going.   I just thought it would be easier to get a server that was already set up for the most part, if there were someone who wanted to abandon theirs.  I don't really get why that is such a big deal.  Even if I learn how to set up my own server, all of the concerns that you all have mentioned would still be concerns.  ANd even more so because I am sure things would be more buggy and glitchy if i were to attempt to do it myself rather than hiring people who actually know what they are doing.   I have good intentions in creating a server, I know a lot about RO including about corruption on private servers, and I have a lot of really great ideas for not only server content, but also how to try to go about staffing it to avoid things like this. Not to mention the means to fund it.  Maybe it will work out and maybe it wont but you are all flaming me based on assumptions, and I did not come here looking for an argument.   I don't think me buying a server that is already set up, hiring someoen to set it up, or me setting it up myself would really make any difference for many of the issues you are so concerned about.  Anyway, obviously this was the wrong place to make this post, so do what you will with it.


PS: Maybe you work for a smaller pizza chain or something, but from what I know most pizza and fast food places order things like dough pre made, and do not actually make it in house from scratch.

[Chemical Crush]

You are all dreaming up possible scenarios, and slapping down my idea because of them. 

If you're gonna be an admin of a server, you need to dream up possible scenarios regardless.  We're all viewing this as a bad idea, mainly because you will not have the knowledge to fix things that need to be fixed.  Not slapping them down, simply putting your feet back on the ground from your head being too far in the clouds.

None of you know me, and who are you to say how involved I will or will not be, or what level of power I would allow my GMs to have.  Not to mention that a lot of things that you all have mentioned are considerations that led to the idea of offering monitary compensation for services provided by my staff.  And you are just assuming that I would not try to learn the important things as I am going.

As yC said, you'll most likely get scammed.   Happens a lot, then you'll qq about how you got scammed and we'll all say 'told ya so'.  Also, we assume you wont learn because you already stated that you wish not to bother learning to set up a server yourself.  Thats the best way to learn how to get things done, doing it yourself.  Or at least trying and maybe getting some help from rathena.org or something, if you come across problems.

I just thought it would be easier to get a server that was already set up for the most part, if there were someone who wanted to abandon theirs.  I don't really get why that is such a big deal.  Even if I learn how to set up my own server, all of the concerns that you all have mentioned would still be concerns.  ANd even more so because I am sure things would be more buggy and glitchy if i were to attempt to do it myself rather than hiring people who actually know what they are doing.

It would be easier in the sense that you didn't have to set it up, it wouldn't be easier in the sense that when something goes wrong you're gonna stare at your computer screen and be like 'Ahurrrrduuuuurrrr'.  Yes, they would still be concerns....that you'll have to deal with.  Or guess what?  Incoming qq about how you're a nab admin who doesn't know what they're doing and doesn't know how to run a server.  Believe me, you'll get that.  The last part about it being more buggy and glichy is not always true, what if you hire someone who also doesn't know what they're doing?  Best bet is to try yourself and seek help along the way, instead of hiring someone you don't know and don't trust.  It's the internet, you're bound to get scammed.

I have good intentions in creating a server, I know a lot about RO including about corruption on private servers, and I have a lot of really great ideas for not only server content, but also how to try to go about staffing it to avoid things like this. Not to mention the means to fund it.

Awesome, i've met tons of people like you.  Great ideas for a server, knows a lot about RO, has money to run a server.  But guess what?  You still need to have knowledge to be an -admin-.  I say you join a team of people by setting up a resume and impliment your ideas on an already pre-existing server or one that is being currently made.  There are tons of servers hiring and honestly we have too many servers out there nowadays.  I would much rather have someone Administrating who knows what the heck they're doing over someone who is 'learning along the way'. 

Maybe it will work out and maybe it wont but you are all flaming me based on assumptions, and I did not come here looking for an argument.   I don't think me buying a server that is already set up, hiring someoen to set it up, or me setting it up myself would really make any difference for many of the issues you are so concerned about.  Anyway, obviously this was the wrong place to make this post, so do what you will with it.

It most likely -won't- work out -well-.  We're not saying at all, we're saying -well-.  ( Well, I'm saying well anyways. )  We're not flaming you, we're just sometimes harsh cause we tell you how it is, how it will be, things you're not looking outsider's points of view.  Basically people are concerned that you are not going to learn how to admin, [ just end up being one of those admins who screw around on the server and think you're gonna rack in some serious money, which you're not at least not in the beginning anyways ] you dont know how to run a server and you're most likely going to get scammed.  If you don't feel like these 'issues' are real, then fine.  By all means go buy a server and buy your way through it.  Have fun burning a hole in your wallet.

PS: Maybe you work for a smaller pizza chain or something, but from what I know most pizza and fast food places order things like dough pre made, and do not actually make it in house from scratch.

Just because its premade doesnt mean that people don't know how its made.  I've worked for Arby's, Subway, and Wal Mart.  All the managers knew ingredients and how things were made.  You have to know these things, cause what if someone came in with a certain allergy and needed to know if a certain ingredient was in the whatever it is they ordered? 

As far as Wal Mart goes, the managers know how to run pretty much every part of the store.  They had to start from the bottom and work their way up, LEARNING SKILLS and ABILITIES along the way, they didnt jump into the managment position out of no where and just learn to be a manager on the way, No.  They had to work for it and learn how to BE a manager.

[darkshines]

Again with the assumptions, but I'm not going to go in circles, with you guys because none of this really matters. But I did want to point out that I said the OWNERS probably do not know how to SET UP their POS systems.  I didn't say the managers don't know how to use it.   They actually hire outside companies to come in and set it up.  But I would really be surprised if the president of walmart knows the pos system, but the front end manager probably knows it inside out.  And knowing what ingredients subway bread has doesnt mean that you could recreate it in the same way, or at all.  But I bet as a entry level subway employee you can make bread and wash dishes better than the franchise owner.  It's just an example anyway, you guys are looking way too much into EVERYTHING.  Anyway, I am not posting anymore, so thanks for all of your concerns!!!

[yC]

You can't compare running a RO server with running a department store or a multi-national company in this sense.

The scale of running a RO server is far smaller than running a walmart or a subway.

There are real laws to govern walmart's employees, they could go to jail for "corruption".  Unlike running a RO server, your staff can just go inactive or leave.  Whatever they do on your server, you can't do anything against them after they are fired.  Regardless of the aftermath or hole left for them to take another shot.

The "skills" needed to work in walmart compare to the "skills" needed to run a server, I actually believe walmart employees are easily replaceable while server management staff are hard to find.  A single walmart store have at least 20~30 employees working during business hours.  I don't think all of them have unique skills, meaning if one or two left the job the store wouldn't need to close for a day.  How many staff are needed to keep a server going?  How many can be easily replaceable?  Which staff missing will cause eventual server down time or shut down?  I wouldn't know, just not as easy as hiring a bunch of generally-skilled workers at minimum wages where everyone can replace everyone else.

[Usagimimi]

If you don't have the knowledge/ability to do the simple part - setting one up - then how will you script stuff? Modify the source file? Add customs? Do you even know about LUA and how to modify / edit it?

What about SQL and DDOS attacks? No?

What about palette errors? Sprite errors? Updates? Patching? No?

This is a bad idea because you don't know the basics. It's a suicide mission. Your server will go down / error / whatever and you will not be able to fix it, and you cannot count on others to do it because quite frankly, those who know what they're doing won't do it for free and they're probably working on their own servers.

Simple. If you don't have the skills to keep it up, don't invest into it. Another scenario would be having children without either parent having a job / income. What are you going to do? Depend on the government to feed'em? Then your children turn out trashy due to poverty and jealousy of other kids, and more problems become of it. Same idea. Buying a server and not being able to support it physically - not financially - and then depending on others to fix every tiny error. There are too many of these servers; at least they know how to set it up, though (cannot say it's a good thing.)

[Strudel]

Very well explained yC ^^
I also like these few lines Yusi

If you don't have the knowledge/ability to do the simple part - setting one up - then how will you script stuff? Modify the source file? Add customs? Do you even know about LUA and how to modify / edit it?

What about SQL and DDOS attacks? No?

What about palette errors? Sprite errors? Updates? Patching? No?

very well described.

[Chemical Crush]

Another scenario would be having children without either parent having a job / income. What are you going to do? Depend on the government to feed'em? Then your children turn out trashy due to poverty and jealousy of other kids, and more problems become of it.

Love you Yusi, but I disagree with this statement.

I don't see how you can figure that a child who is brought up in a poor family is going to turn out trashy and automatically going to be jealous of other children.  No.  That happens because the parents are irresponsible and do not teach their child the true values in life.  I was raised in a poor house hold but I am not *trashy*.  I'm not jealous because people have better things than I.  I believe that things are things and they can be replaced.  I am thankful for what I have because there are people who have even LESS than me.  Assuming that someone ends up being trashy or overly jealous because they are raised in a poor financial situation is a very narrow minded way of thinking.  You don't know whats gone on in their life.  You don't know why they're poor and are struggling to make ends meet and why they need extra help. 

Again, I do say that it is irresponsible to have children without planning it through.  But assuming that the child will end up trashy just because of this is quite ridiculous. 

If I took this in a different way than you meant it I sowwie.  e.e;  -Is half asleeps-

As far as the Wal Mart and Subway thing.

I don't see how those compare to running an RO server either, but he brought up the pizza place thing and I just thought i'd throw out there that just because he assumes that doesn't mean its true.  And I apologize I thought you said managers instead of owners.  As far as the owners of the subway I worked at, they too worked in their own chains and were better at doing the jobs than the managers were.  I have NO IDEA if its that way with other subways or anything.  o_o;

[Triper]

Easy question that answers everything directly:

Do you want a server that ends fast or something that makes you rich for years?

Answer is obvious and is achieved be following the advice given here.