Taking files from other servers?

[Annihilate]

Well using the content is ok. But claiming it as their own is not.That is something wrong.


But if offenderRO says "We have customs like [insert list of rip-offs]" in their website then it is ok. It becomes wrong though if they say "We have original custom stuff like [insert list of rip-offs]" or "We wrote/made/drew [insert list of rip-offs] for use in our server"

The point to be proven here is the intent of offenderRO to not recognize victimRO's authorship [read: authorship and ownership in this particular discussion are 2 different concepts].

Wording is tricky, but sometimes, having to do some semantic nitpicking is necessary to maintain objectivity.

[Skotlex]

There is something completely off about invoking the GPL-2 here...

It certainly cannot be extended to the sprites and files that the server reads! By that logic, you'd say that every text/office document you create/open in OpenOffice should be made available to other people as well!!

Additionally, the GPL-2 has a design "flaw" which is easily exploited by server software: the modifications you make only need to be shared when you distribute the binary. That means you can't take a project like OpenOffice, improve it, and then sell it closed-source without also making the changes/code available. However, this also means you can take a server project like Apache, modify it, and run your server off the modified version without having to share said changes.

You must realize that this, when applied to eAthena, means you can modify the server to your heart's content and not have to share the source-code of the changes as long as you don't distribute the server to other people. Which really is no news since many servers have been doing it for quite some time now :[

Anyway, just wanted to clear that up.

[Annihilate]

There is something completely off about invoking the GPL-2 here...

It certainly cannot be extended to the sprites and files that the server reads! By that logic, you'd say that every text/office document you create/open in OpenOffice should be made available to other people as well!!

I know it sounds absurd, but technically, someone who uses OpenOffice should be aware of that risk, as he has clearly ticked the check box when he installed the software, i.e. agreed to the GPL.

Additionally, the GPL-2 has a design "flaw" which is easily exploited by server software: the modifications you make only need to be shared when you distribute the binary. That means you can't take a project like OpenOffice, improve it, and then sell it closed-source without also making the changes/code available. However, this also means you can take a server project like Apache, modify it, and run your server off the modified version without having to share said changes.

Well, this is exactly the reason why GPL exists. There are many ways to make money off of it aside from direct sales. Why would SUN Microsystems bother releasing MySQL?

You must realize that this, when applied to eAthena, means you can modify the server to your heart's content and not have to share the source-code of the changes as long as you don't distribute the server to other people. Which really is no news since many servers have been doing it for quite some time now :[

Anyway, just wanted to clear that up.

But here, there lies a debate on what it means to "publish".


The computing world is fairly new, so terms are not all well-defined.

[Skotlex]

I know it sounds absurd, but technically, someone who uses OpenOffice should be aware of that risk, as he has clearly ticked the check box when he installed the software, i.e. agreed to the GPL.

Eh, maybe you need to reread the GPL then. I read enough Slashdot to know this isn't a "risk" at all. I wonder where did you drew this conclusion from?

Well, this is exactly the reason why GPL exists. There are many ways to make money off of it aside from direct sales. Why would SUN Microsystems bother releasing MySQL?

This is exactly why the GPL-3 was drafted, to correct that loophole in the GPL-2. The spirit of the GPL is to make "software free" so that it can evolve through community participation, not so that some smart people can tune it, lock down the improvements, and make a profit (disclaimer: The GPL is not against you making a profit, it just tries to protect to software so it can be developed without people taking advantage of it).

But here, there lies a debate on what it means to "publish".

Wrong, if you want a debate, it is on the word "derive", and whether you can argue that programs created with an application can be said to be "derived" from the application...

that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof...

But this is hardly the appropriate place for this kind of discussion...

[Omi]

I'm not going to add to this "debate" but all I'm saying is that in RO's case, creating / stealing files is happening every second.  Guess what files you guys use to play RO pservs.

In other news, the irony of dragonhero posting this topic is hilarious.

[DragonHero]

I dont know about you guys but i made my own full installer so that new people can just download once and install my game fully. i did that a long time ago and i get files from eathena rune aegis and gamerzplanet to get more stuff onto my server most of that is good too. as for the adult sprites i think sackage is down so i may have to just use aegis for that too or make my own sprites if i multiplied correctly with all the stuff i have on my server now i can litterally make over 3500 female npc with 7 different skin colors 42 different hair styles 9 different body types and a kafra helmet as for the male ones maybe 500 of them but i dont need THAT many but im just saying what i can do lol

not to mention sitting npc that doubles it lol

I still wouldnt take sprites from other servers because there are many sprites on eathena aegis rune and gamerzplanet that can be used for the servers that are free yes rune is now giving out all sprites now so that is a HUGE game upgrade lol

[kinzoku]

GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
Version 2, June 1991


....

 2. You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or any portion
of it, thus forming a work based on the Program, and copy and
distribute such modifications or work under the terms of Section 1
above, provided that you also meet all of these conditions:

    a) You must cause the modified files to carry prominent notices
    stating that you changed the files and the date of any change.

   b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in
    whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any
    part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third
    parties under the terms of this License.

....


(Source: http://svn.eathena.ws/svn/ea/trunk/LICENCE)

Under the GNU, offenderRO by default has the licence to use the content. So as far as I can see, you can even move heaven and earth to prove that offenderRO did "use" victimRO's content, but with the following mitigating circumstances:

1. Even if offenderRO did it, they have the right to.
2. Even if it was unethical, its still within the bounds of eAthena's licence.
3. OffenderRO's reputation for originality may become tarnished, but they cannot be punished for this particular act alone.

Actually I think I responded to it before. Sprites don't actually apply to the GNU because if one is made from scratch it does not "in
    whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any
    part" so it actually isn't bound by the eAthena's license and the offenderRO does not have the right to take these sprites.

Scripts however are applied to this rule because they do "in
    whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any
    part" They mostly contain things from the Program. The thing about scripts though is it's impossible for anyone to get a hold of it unless someone with access to your server takes it and distributes it. If someone hacks into the server and takes it though then that would be pretty illegal.

Something like that...

EDIT:
I almost forgot to post my opinion.
Servers that steal other server's original and hard work shouldn't, don't deserve to, should be brought out onto the street and set on fire with a sledge hammer covered in flaming napalm.

No offense to anyone. Except servers that do this.

[Hutchy]

So how many topics about this are on the forums now? 45076?

[kinzoku]

I've yet to have a productive response.

Plus it's only 35075 and you happen to respond to it every time.

[Hutchy]

When my "unread topics" gets flooded with them, yeah, I'm going to respond.

I'm just wondering why a mod hasn't condensed some of the threads into each other. A lot of it is the same discussion.

[kinzoku]

I guess this would officially be the overall discussion thread for it. I mean like what's a better name than? "Taking files from other servers?"