Taking files from other servers?

[XionSiphon]

I think this type of behavior could be classified as unethical, absolutely. And I completely understand why someone would be upset at having something they created taken and used without their permission.
That said, I really can't understand the righteous anger I've seen a lot of people display in cases like these, considering the nature of private servers. If we take a look at the basic elements that often times comprise a private server, they involve the use of 1) things the server owner is stealing and 2) things that are offered freely for the server owner to use.

• Stolen: The generic 'RO' on the end of every server name.
• Stolen: Gravity's sprites, textures, maps, and scripts.
• Stolen: Art used on loading screens/patcher/website, taken from Gravity or some unsuspecting fan artist.
• Stolen: The copy of Photoshop that was used to abuse the stolen art.

• Free: eAthena.
• Free: kRO translations.
• Free: Copy + pasted scripts from eAthena.
• Free: Patchers and control panels.

Just my own opinion, but it seems kind of hypocritical for a person to rage about being stolen from, when that person is in turn stealing the hard work of someone else and/or using things that are offered freely by generous people.

Well, normally I don't say much on the boards now adays, but Lumie's examples make perfect sense, people need to stop crying over 'stolen' stuff, everyone steals, period. So stop the complaning =P

Edit: I express my motions for this thread with my Avatar^^

[Descent]

Well, normally I don't say much on the boards now adays, but Lumie's examples make perfect sense, people need to stop crying over 'stolen' stuff, everyone steals, period. So stop the complaning =P

Edit: I express my motions for this thread with my Avatar^^

"Heyyyyyy. Shut up already!" seems to be what it's saying. I love it.

Good to see you post again, I was wondering where you may have gone off to.

[SilverStream~]

Just want to clear this one up:

Gravity have actually said that they do not really like private servers, but they also said they they have little against them.

Many of the people that play in the USRC use private servers to test out new gear, what's good and what's bad, builds etc.

No, Gravity has already announced that they are in favor of private servers, they make their game popular and alot use private servers to test out new builds, gear, tactics, etc.

This makes no sense.

Gravity have said that they are aware of private servers, and that they are not really too happy about them, because they do take an amount of players from their servers.

But.

They have also said that they are in a way in favor for them, because a lot of players that play in the USRC(and other normal users) use private servers like rms' test server to test out builds and gear.


In conclusion;

They don't like private servers because they steal players, but they like them because players get to test out things on them, and then use that knowledge in the official servers.

There, now learn to understand things better next time A92FL0163, or read some journals so that you learn this before someone tells it to you.
Btw your bolding was placed incorrectly too.


Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post. - Grr decent =.0

[A92FL0163]

who cares

[Hutchy]

I knew this would happen. /me sighs

[LemonCrosswalk]

[A92FL0163]

image

[bleu]

Gravity have said that they are aware of private servers, and that they are not really too happy about them, because they do take an amount of players from their servers.

But.

They have also said that they are in a way in favor for them, because a lot of players that play in the USRC(and other normal users) use private servers like rms' test server to test out builds and gear.


In conclusion;

They don't like private servers because they steal players, but they like them because players get to test out things on them, and then use that knowledge in the official servers.

I would disagree.

1. The percentage of participants for GVG events such as USRC is insignificant in comparison with the total population of players on official servers. Some official servers even offer training to their participants such as ThailandRO; reigning RWC champion.

2. Most private servers if not all are behind iRO in terms of new contents (iRO is currently at Episode 13.1 Ash Vacuum). This is especially true if it's an eAthena based server. eAthena servers are unable to simulate the "real USRC environment" for training or testing purpose - there are many inconsistencies in formulae, skills, items, mechanics, etc.. An AEGIS private server might more accurately reflect the real USRC conditions. There's also the element of customizations - changes in card effects, etc... which deviates from official making testing unreliable. Why go to private servers, when iRO has their own testing server - Sakray X50? It even have NPCs selling items to help facilitate testing. What better place to train than the actual USRC server itself- last year's USRC was even held on Sakray server.

3. There's no knowledge anyone can gain from testing on private servers. Normally if a player from official server has a question; they can just ask someone in their guild or the many highly knowledgeable players on their server. They have access to iRO forum, irowiki, Doddler, ROCalculator, ROratorio's Calculator, RagState, etc...  GMs on official servers even conduct testing requested by their players.


Your statements may hold true in the past, where Sakray was only a X2 server and wasn't acting as a "real test server". And back then, eAthena was ahead of iRO in terms of new contents; it was nice to have a preview of upcoming patches before they were officially launched on iRO. But it would seem that recently the tide has changed, eAthena is now playing catch up.

[SilverStream~]

Well no I wasn't taking in account all the private servers, because I see most private servers as plagiarism, and are really just junk servers people set up to get donation money and have their own server to mess around with.

The top servers listed in rms on the low rates and some of the high rates are the ones I'm talking about.

The new, the old, the crap corrupted etc~(list goes on) are servers that are un-necessary and really seen as plagiarism because they are made to get money or act as more official servers, making their own items, own story lines etc.

The sakray test server I can't say much about because I don't use them as my test server.  But I should in order to get a wider look on the different servers that are around.



But the point is that while most of the private servers are not liked by gravity, there are those servers that alot of players from every corner of the world use as test servers, which gravity don't say "we are in favor of them", but don't speak of them at all because they really don't care because some of their players use them.

[DragonHero]

well i made npc scripts exclusive only to my server 1 being the crazy disguise girl and 2 being the body changer which i will not be releasing as an script for other servers just to make my server more different than others but im gonna make one that will not be using adult sprites for the non adult sections.

[PoisonWolf]

well i made npc scripts exclusive only to my server 1 being the crazy disguise girl and 2 being the body changer which i will not be releasing as an script for other servers just to make my server more different than others but im gonna make one that will not be using adult sprites for the non adult sections.

DragonHero,

Oh right, now I remember you. You're that fella who wanted to actually segregate the community into those who were willing to pay for pixelated secks-material, and those who don't, right? I think it was you. If you're still trying to pull that off.....I'd like to blame you as one of the many leading pedophile-growing RO servers in the private server world.

Cheers.

[DragonHero]

rotfl there are adult sprites it doesnt mean its for pedos. many servers use adult sprites. i just choose alternate means to enable them. hence why the characters on my server dont start off naked and when they are age verified they still wont be naked unless they use the npc in the adult section. adult servers are means for adults to relax and be themselves without the fears of hitting on a kid.

Btw yes my server is for all ages but it has a section thats for 18+ and i dont just let anyone in that section thats why if anyone goes there without my adult.grf they will error. but if they play the game as is even though by default some monsters are naked anyone can play it.

so if you dont mind please stay on topic.

[Hutchy]

Bumping this thread in hopes that more people will make silly posts in it.

[Annihilate]

Bumping this thread in hopes that more people will make silly posts in it.

Oh dear. Ill bite into it. XD



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets call the offender OffenderRO, and the victim victimRO

(I ripped this off from one of my posts in another thread. The same things apply anyway, so I just modified it a little.)

As far as I know, eAthena and all its software is freeware under a GNU public license agreement. This means that everything that is/was/will be derived from it should be under the same agreement too. Customs from that old server being copied by offenderRO is actually ok, and they cannot get penalised for that.

GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
Version 2, June 1991


....

 2. You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or any portion
of it, thus forming a work based on the Program, and copy and
distribute such modifications or work under the terms of Section 1
above, provided that you also meet all of these conditions:

    a) You must cause the modified files to carry prominent notices
    stating that you changed the files and the date of any change.

    b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in
    whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any
    part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third
    parties under the terms of this License.

....


(Source: http://svn.eathena.ws/svn/ea/trunk/LICENCE)

Under the GNU, offenderRO by default has the licence to use the content. So as far as I can see, you can even move heaven and earth to prove that offenderRO did "use" victimRO's content, but with the following mitigating circumstances:

1. Even if offenderRO did it, they have the right to.
2. Even if it was unethical, its still within the bounds of eAthena's licence.
3. OffenderRO's reputation for originality may become tarnished, but they cannot be punished for this particular act alone.


The Bottomline:

1. eAthena is freeware. we were able to enjoy RO without paying for licences. It is then also our responsibility to contribute to the community by following the terms of use of the server software.

2. Corollarily, Intellectual property(software,sprites, custom items, custom maps, love letters, promo shirts et. Al. whose development can be linked to the use of eAthena ) rights do not hold in the same manner as patent for, say a new brand of Coke. OffenderRO did not [knowingly or unknowingly] break the law.

3. Read contracts. They are there for a purpose.

4. @DragonRO: I dont believe that you can actually make content that is exclusive to your server. That is very hard to prove. As long as you used a program/npc/whatever editor that is not your own, I can easily trace it back to another software thats also under the GNU.

5. "ZOMG but i didnt know whatthehell that GNU was when i made the custom stuff!" - Not my fault.




P.S. OFFTOPIC:

In all fairness Hutchy, you look really cute in your avatar pic. Too bad im gay. lolololol

[LiteX]

Bumping this thread in hopes that more people will make silly posts in it.

Oh dear. Ill bite into it. XD



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets call the offender OffenderRO, and the victim victimRO

(I ripped this off from one of my posts in another thread. The same things apply anyway, so I just modified it a little.)

As far as I know, eAthena and all its software is freeware under a GNU public license agreement. This means that everything that is/was/will be derived from it should be under the same agreement too. Customs from that old server being copied by offenderRO is actually ok, and they cannot get penalised for that.

GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
Version 2, June 1991


....

 2. You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or any portion
of it, thus forming a work based on the Program, and copy and
distribute such modifications or work under the terms of Section 1
above, provided that you also meet all of these conditions:

    a) You must cause the modified files to carry prominent notices
    stating that you changed the files and the date of any change.

    b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in
    whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any
    part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third
    parties under the terms of this License.

....


(Source: http://svn.eathena.ws/svn/ea/trunk/LICENCE)

Under the GNU, offenderRO by default has the licence to use the content. So as far as I can see, you can even move heaven and earth to prove that offenderRO did "use" victimRO's content, but with the following mitigating circumstances:

1. Even if offenderRO did it, they have the right to.
2. Even if it was unethical, its still within the bounds of eAthena's licence.
3. OffenderRO's reputation for originality may become tarnished, but they cannot be punished for this particular act alone.


The Bottomline:

1. eAthena is freeware. we were able to enjoy RO without paying for licences. It is then also our responsibility to contribute to the community by following the terms of use of the server software.

2. Corollarily, Intellectual property(software,sprites, custom items, custom maps, love letters, promo shirts et. Al. whose development can be linked to the use of eAthena ) rights do not hold in the same manner as patent for, say a new brand of Coke. OffenderRO did not [knowingly or unknowingly] break the law.

3. Read contracts. They are there for a purpose.

4. @DragonRO: I dont believe that you can actually make content that is exclusive to your server. That is very hard to prove. As long as you used a program/npc/whatever editor that is not your own, I can easily trace it back to another software thats also under the GNU.

5. "ZOMG but i didnt know whatthehell that GNU was when i made the custom stuff!" - Not my fault.




P.S. OFFTOPIC:

In all fairness Hutchy, you look really cute in your avatar pic. Too bad im gay. lolololol

In other words, it is legal but unethical, my point of view on this is that something should be done to limit this s***, I mean, RO stuff are easly made nowadays, but the fact is, most people just download them/"steal them" really doesn't help the major pserver community in any way, it just makes a bunch of look-alike servers, if this creating s*** was the same in real life then there would exist few stuff because everyone would just steal&claim as their own, this is why I wish yC would add stealing on the rules...