Taking files from other servers?

[Yuufa xD!]

Rofl. Rofl. Rofl. Rofl. Rofl. Rofl. Rofl. Rofl. Rofl. Rofl. Rofl. Rofl. Rofl. Rofl. Rofl. Rofl.

On a second note, I think it's wrong to steal another persons work without giving them reference. Which is why I'm currently using encoding software so no one steals my sprites and such from my server, that way I've got actual customs only to my server that i've created without the great chance of people stealing them, unless they screen shot each angle.

Then they're just really lame. >:U

Either way, I disagree with stealing peoples work without asking permission, even though we're on private servers that are stolen technically, people have done a lot of work to keep these servers working, including translations and what not.

SO Yes, even though private RO servers are technically stolen people have put a lot of work into them that they're hardly resemble the depth of the actual RO servers.

[A92FL0163]

Go QQ with the snobs at RUNE. Seriously, you're taking the hard work of Gravity and using it for yourself. And the your palettes get taken so you're gonna cry about it here... come on, seriously. Now go join the snobs at RUNE, they'll understand your situation cause they're totally oblivious to everything else but themselves and their work. To RUNE loyal members, all they say is... "It's all about ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME!!!" You'd fit fine with them .

Here's a link to: http://www.ro-enhance.net

Funny thing, I saw the same arguments over there, but with a higher level of intelligence and logical reasons.

Logic error. Logic error. Logic error. Logic error. Logic error. Logic error. Logic error. Logic error. Logic error. Logic error. Logic error. Logic error. Logic error. Logic error. Logic error. Logic errors. Logic error.

sup

[Lumi]

I think this type of behavior could be classified as unethical, absolutely. And I completely understand why someone would be upset at having something they created taken and used without their permission.
That said, I really can't understand the righteous anger I've seen a lot of people display in cases like these, considering the nature of private servers. If we take a look at the basic elements that often times comprise a private server, they involve the use of 1) things the server owner is stealing and 2) things that are offered freely for the server owner to use.

• Stolen: The generic 'RO' on the end of every server name.
• Stolen: Gravity's sprites, textures, maps, and scripts.
• Stolen: Art used on loading screens/patcher/website, taken from Gravity or some unsuspecting fan artist.
• Stolen: The copy of Photoshop that was used to abuse the stolen art.

• Free: eAthena.
• Free: kRO translations.
• Free: Copy + pasted scripts from eAthena.
• Free: Patchers and control panels.

Just my own opinion, but it seems kind of hypocritical for a person to rage about being stolen from, when that person is in turn stealing the hard work of someone else and/or using things that are offered freely by generous people.

[Squishy]

Go QQ with the snobs at RUNE. Seriously, you're taking the hard work of Gravity and using it for yourself. And the your palettes get taken so you're gonna cry about it here... come on, seriously. Now go join the snobs at RUNE, they'll understand your situation cause they're totally oblivious to everything else but themselves and their work. To RUNE loyal members, all they say is... "It's all about ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME!!!" You'd fit fine with them .

Here's a link to: http://www.ro-enhance.net

y so srs?

[Max]

I think Lumi hit the nail right on the head.

[A92FL0163]

I think this type of behavior could be classified as unethical, absolutely.

Not this s*** again.

[Skotlex]

• Stolen: The generic 'RO' on the end of every server name.
• Stolen: Gravity's sprites, textures, maps, and scripts.
• Stolen: Art used on loading screens/patcher/website, taken from Gravity or some unsuspecting fan artist.
• Stolen: The copy of Photoshop that was used to abuse the stolen art.

Hmm... you can't really call it stealing when there's absolutely no legal mechanism to protect against it. Apple can't patent/copyright "software program names that begin with non-capitalized 'i'" any better than Microsoft can stop third parties from using the word "Windows" in their product names. Yes, words like "Macintosh" or "Microsoft" can be protected, even "Ragnarok Online" can be, but... "RO"? That sounds to me as generic as "i".

It's hard to say you are stealing Gravity's artwork and sprites when they freely distribute the client and let anyone download it Isn't that kinda like leaving a big RAR file full of your work on a public ftp server and then complain that those who download it are "stealing it" because they didn't use the file as you wanted them to? (doesn't that argument sounds silly when said this way?)

I can't argue against Copyright violation (point three), but not every server engages on that (eg: I am pretty sure I don't).

I have never used Photoshop, there exists alternatives (like the Gimp) which may "not be as good" as the real deal, but you don't really need it (most people really don't).

I've seen this topic before, a long time ago in the eA forums. :v You know that the only real illegal activity, is breaking Gravity's EULA when you hex and distribute a modified client? (but even that might be contested some day, as EULAs aren't really enforceable, at least it hasn't been upheld in court yet).

[jTynne]

Hmm... you can't really call it stealing when there's absolutely no legal mechanism to protect against it. Apple can't patent/copyright "software program names that begin with non-capitalized 'i'" any better than Microsoft can stop third parties from using the word "Windows" in their product names. Yes, words like "Macintosh" or "Microsoft" can be protected, even "Ragnarok Online" can be, but... "RO"? That sounds to me as generic as "i".

Gravity's actually gone after people in the past with "-RO" in their domain name. "RO" with reference to "Ragnarok Online" is a registered trademark. They've grounds for lawsuit, unfortunately.

[SilverStream~]

I have some real copies of photoshop cs4, because it's the artist's way *-*

Also i got them for free <.<

[Aozora]

Stolen: The generic 'RO' on the end of every server name.

As pointed out by Skotlex this is not really something you can patent or claim any rights in owning =/

Stolen: Gravity's sprites, textures, maps, and scripts.

This holds true even on Gravity's on policy:

(click to show/hide)

10. Intellectual Property

Including but not limited to, all communication features of Gravity contains copyrighted material, trademarks and other proprietary information including, but not limited to, any titles, text, software, photographs, video, graphics, computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, dialog, catch phrases, locations, concepts, artwork, character inventories, structural or landscape designs, animations, sounds, musical compositions, audio-visual effects, storylines, character likenesses, methods of operation, moral rights, any related documentation, and "applets" incorporated into the Game and the entire contents of Gravity and each area contained therein are copyrighted as a collective work and exclusivevly owned and licensed by Gravity and protected by the copyright laws of the United States, international copyright treaties and conventions, and other laws. All rights are reserved.

Gravity owns copyrights in the selection, coordination, arrangement and enhancement of such contents. User may not in whole or in part, copy, photocopy, reproduce, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code, modify, disassemble, decompile, or create derivative works based on the Game, modify, publish, transmit, participate in the transfer or sale, create derivative works, or in any way exploit, any of the content contained on Gravity (including, without limitation, content that the Website enables you to download) without the express written permission of Gravity and the copyright owner. In the event of any permitted copying, redistribution or publication of copyrighted material, no changes in or deletion of author attribution, trademark, and legend or copyright notice shall be made. The downloading of copyrighted material from Gravity is allowed by the user expressly for the user's own personal use. User acknowledges that Gravity and/or third-party content providers remain the owners of all materials posted on Gravity, and that the user does not acquire any of those ownership rights by downloading copyrighted materials.

Failure to comply with the restrictions and limitations shall result in immediate, automatic termination of the Account granted hereunder and may subject you to civil and/or criminal liability. [Notwithstanding the foregoing, you may make one (1) copy of the Game Client and the Manuals for archival purposes only.]

Stolen: Art used on loading screens/patcher/website, taken from Gravity or some unsuspecting fan artist.

Eh......Not really =/
Most unsuspecting fan artists have nothing against using their artwork. There are also responsible server owners who ask permission from the original artist if possible.

Stolen: The copy of Photoshop that was used to abuse the stolen art.

Not like there aren't free alternatives? GIMP for example is a brilliant piece of software that in some ways is even better than Photoshop and I know a lot of people use that.

[Hutchy]

I hate Photoshop, honestly. I use PSP and Gimp. :c

But... yeah. I dunno, I really don't think server owners have much room to complain. People can throw copyright/ethics laws at me all they like, it's not going to change my mind.

At the end of the day, every server owner is still peddling his own ripoff of Ragnarok Online, which is someone else's game. If you essentially steal from someone else, don't cry when someone steals from you. Instead, make a thread about it so everyone else can laugh and/or have the f*** copyright argument for the millionth time, because that never really gets old around here.



Edit: Holy god, typo.

[SilverStream~]

Gravity have actually said that they do not really like private servers, but they also said they they have little against them.

Many of the people that play in the USRC use private servers to test out new gear, what's good and what's bad, builds etc.

[A92FL0163]

Gravity have actually said that they do not really like private servers, but they also said they they have little against them.

Many of the people that play in the USRC use private servers to test out new gear, what's good and what's bad, builds etc.

No, Gravity has already announced that they are in favor of private servers, they make their game popular and alot use private servers to test out new builds, gear, tactics, etc.

This makes no sense.

[Lumi]

Hmm... you can't really call it stealing when there's absolutely no legal mechanism to protect against it. Apple can't patent/copyright "software program names that begin with non-capitalized 'i'" any better than Microsoft can stop third parties from using the word "Windows" in their product names. Yes, words like "Macintosh" or "Microsoft" can be protected, even "Ragnarok Online" can be, but... "RO"? That sounds to me as generic as "i".

It's hard to say you are stealing Gravity's artwork and sprites when they freely distribute the client and let anyone download it Isn't that kinda like leaving a big RAR file full of your work on a public ftp server and then complain that those who download it are "stealing it" because they didn't use the file as you wanted them to? (doesn't that argument sounds silly when said this way?)

I can't argue against Copyright violation (point three), but not every server engages on that (eg: I am pretty sure I don't).

I have never used Photoshop, there exists alternatives (like the Gimp) which may "not be as good" as the real deal, but you don't really need it (most people really don't).

I've seen this topic before, a long time ago in the eA forums. :v You know that the only real illegal activity, is breaking Gravity's EULA when you hex and distribute a modified client? (but even that might be contested some day, as EULAs aren't really enforceable, at least it hasn't been upheld in court yet).

Since Serenity posted a reply about about the 'RO' issue I mentioned, I'll just skip to the next point you made.

I don't think it can really be classified as anything other than stealing, considering the fact that most software and applications (including RO) require the user to agree to some form of ToS/ToU at the time of install which, unless the software or application in question is open source, usually involves an agreement that you won't edit/copy/redistribute/sell whatever it is you're installing. And it's the presence of those terms that make the unauthorized usage of Gravity's content different from your example.

I have some real copies of photoshop cs4, because it's the artist's way *-*

Also i got them for free <.<

I'm definitely not saying that every copy of Photoshop has been pirated. I know there are plenty of people who have a legitimate copy of the program, which is why I wanted to make sure that I didn't generalize every server owner in my example.

Stolen: Art used on loading screens/patcher/website, taken from Gravity or some unsuspecting fan artist.

Eh......Not really =/
Most unsuspecting fan artists have nothing against using their artwork. There are also responsible server owners who ask permission from the original artist if possible.

Not totally sure the types of fan artists you're acquainted with, but pretty much all of the ones I know will go loco if they catch someone using their art without permission.
Also in Gravity's case, they do have the rights to the character and location artwork for RO.


Also since a few people seem to have misunderstood my comment about Photoshop, let me just clear things up by saying that I'm completely aware that there are other paid and free alternatives to that program, and many are equally capable of good graphic editing. The point I was trying to make was that there are many people who use pirated versions of Photoshop for their graphic editing needs, and in such a case that would count as another mark against someone who was complaining about being stolen from. It wasn't in any way meant to generalize every single designer or Photoshop user.

[Skotlex]

... You know that the only real illegal activity, is breaking Gravity's EULA when you hex and distribute a modified client? (but even that might be contested some day, as EULAs aren't really enforceable, at least it hasn't been upheld in court yet).

I don't think it can really be classified as anything other than stealing, considering the fact that most software and applications (including RO) require the user to agree to some form of ToS/ToU at the time of install which, unless the software or application in question is open source, usually involves an agreement that you won't edit/copy/redistribute/sell whatever it is you're installing. And it's the presence of those terms that make the unauthorized usage of Gravity's content different from your example.

Didn't you just repeat what I said? Private servers don't have to edit/copy/redistribute/sell/whatever anything other than the hexed client, as all the other files can be freely downloadable from Gravity itself (question: If I download the installer and just share that, am I breaking an EULA I never had to agree to since I did not install the program?)

And the word "stealing" kinda makes no sense in the digital world, at least not in its classical sense