Server Type: Normal or PK?

Started by Haruko, Jul 08, 2016, 03:29 AM

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PK or Normal? (Base Level 175~200)

Normal
5 (33.3%)
Player Kill
6 (40%)
Doesn't matter
5 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 15

Haruko

I started playing iRO back around '03, and left around '05 to join the private server bandwagon. I stopped playing RO above 5 years ago, and recently now I and my guild mates have regained a lot of interest. However, I am honestly curious as to what type of server people are more inclined to join now 'n days, and why? Thank you in advance for your feedback!

I honestly prefer playing on a pk server. Because I feel overall this just adds more content to the game, based on how many players partake in it of course. The possibilities are endless with this feature enabled. It would allow pk wards to take place on any map, not just MvP specific maps, and you would be able to fight back for what is rightfully yours by your strength alone. I think this is one of the greatest things included in RO.

Yuzo

Depends what type of server you are playing. Some server don't need it and wouldn't suit it at all.


I played Essence RO back in the day and it was a lot of fun. This one group of people had control over all the mvps. They had the best items and you had to form alliances with them to have safe mvps over your own zones.

Haruko

You are right, I should have specified. I was refering to Mid-rates, which I guess are now the new High-Rates? The server would be max level 175~200.

So on EssenceRO was it solely MvP maps that were PvP enabled? I am most curious as to if this would be the best method overall, vice the entire world being PvP enabled.

I tried Essence as well for a short while, but opted to go with the flock towards Ethereal-Revenge.

EclipseToo

I always like when a game has a separate PK channel that has like 25% increase in rates but the possibility of people killing you while you level. Probably wouldn't work in RO unless you had a massive population though.

It's not for me, but PK can definitely be fun in RO as long as you don't have a max level person just repeatedly killing newbs or people getting too upset. It really only works on mid-high rate servers for that reason since they usually don't take as long to level and have town/dungeon/field warpers. I'd hate to lose out on 15 minutes of leveling on a low-rate because I got killed and had to walk back to my spot.

Bug

Quote from: EclipseToo on Jul 08, 2016, 09:08 AM
It's not for me, but PK can definitely be fun in RO as long as you don't have a max level person just repeatedly killing newbs or people getting too upset. It really only works on mid-high rate servers for that reason since they usually don't take as long to level and have town/dungeon/field warpers. I'd hate to lose out on 15 minutes of leveling on a low-rate because I got killed and had to walk back to my spot.
Use a required level range. Let's go with 5: a level 85 player could only PK  80 through 90, and said maxed player (if the cap is 99) can PK 94 through 99.
Manner/karma system penalties could also help.
But yeah, it's definitely easier to roll with the punches on higher rates.

I was part of the Ethereal-Revenge flock too. Had myself a nice collection of skulls.

Haruko

A PK range would actually be a very interesting way of "Balancing" the whole thing indeed.

I was on Revenge as well and the whole skull collecting was indeed a nice hobby for many lol.

Quote from: EclipseToo on Jul 08, 2016, 09:08 AM
It's not for me, but PK can definitely be fun in RO as long as you don't have a max level person just repeatedly killing newbs or people getting too upset.

Well, everyone enjoys the game a different way. However, I think there are various solutions to counter this, perhaps changing lvling areas, or asking friends to come help defend you perhaps?


Bug

Quote from: Haruko on Jul 08, 2016, 10:34 PM
Well, everyone enjoys the game a different way. However, I think there are various solutions to counter this, perhaps changing lvling areas, or asking friends to come help defend you perhaps?
Or swearing to get revenge! (Sorry, I had to.)

Haruko

Well, only if you were "man enough" to do that. However, most people these days would curl up under the pressure and frustration, and rather complain without finding solutions.

I wouldn't take it, surely vengeance WOULD be mine at the end of the day.

Bug

#8
Quote from: Haruko on Jul 12, 2016, 04:30 AM
Well, only if you were "man enough" to do that. However, most people these days would curl up under the pressure and frustration, and rather complain without finding solutions.

I wouldn't take it, surely vengeance WOULD be mine at the end of the day.
Instead of complaining, they can at the very least get some shameless instant gratification, and cheap-shot PK them when their loading screen is stuck on 100%.

What server did you and your guildmates end up on?


Haruko

Well, you're referring to Asura, and I suppose making an alt to do just that isn't a bad idea.

A very small number of my guild mates and myself ended up on limitRO, there were about 6 of us. It didn't work out in the end, because half of us have a lot going on right now. And I initially did not plan on taking the server super serious in general. It is a good server, it's just a bit too old and has a bit too much for my liking. Kind of over the top, if you ask me. Especially the initial introduction to the server.

Styx

PK=PvP only, it limits choices of chars, can be fun, but it is custome in an extreme way.

Minabe

#11
Doing Tripper's job.

MelonNotFound

I played on an official PK server (PK enabled for 60+ level players in all maps except for towns and a few questing maps, turning off isn't an option) and it was so much fun for me. There was a time when I was just a mage trying to get to job 50 and got bullied a lot so one day I went into town and asked people for help, I got my help, made new friends, a few "senpai" then when I got stronger I did my share of helping back. While being helped was a warm experience, doing the helping by kicking asses was also very satisfied.  /gg It was frustrating at times but that just add up to the immersion. Everyone was much more sociable and showed a more lively diversity in personality and character than the other servers I played. The classes got to show more of their specificity too. Walking across the maps, it was easy to spot all kind of people, the trolls, the jerks, the kind brothers and sisters, the petty, the cowards, the rage blood seekers, the honor fighters who will fight anyone but spare the low levels, the hot headed, the peace lovers who just want to do their own things, the skilled and the new comers. On high level, big party for leveling and farming is pretty common to protect each other. Also being in a guild / alliance gave a very good role playing experience, aside from WoE we have actual practical goals to compete like "right to use" MVP maps. Epic fights between big groups happened here and there and it was fun just to watch. People solved their drama by skills and power more than mouth trashing and somehow the community was pretty friendly. The feeling of being a person in this magical world filled of other people was very real. But I think this requires a kind of community that is hard to find these days. Also it's very important that no one has a monopoly of power to maintain a competitive but healthy environment. There was a problem of accidentally attacking each other too.

Then the server got shutdown by Gravity for being too customized without their permission.  /sob

Damn... Nostalgia is flooding back...

Haruko

Really good story there. I really don't know what happened to all the PK servers, 10 years ago they were much more common now. But now you have to play servers where people can do anything they want uncontested. I just feel powerless being unable to have a say in who does what on any map. I'm playing this game, and depending how much time I invest, I feel that I should have more power over what happens in the server.

Bug

Would any of you guys play a low rate PK server? Just curious.

Minabe

#15
Doing Tripper's job.

Haruko

Quote from: Bug on Jul 20, 2016, 10:21 PM
Would any of you guys play a low rate PK server? Just curious.

I myself would not, only because I have been playing Mid to HR servers since I left official back in '04. So I've grown accustomed to them.

The idea of a low rate PK server seems innovative, yes. However, I think one of the main issues would be that it being a low rate server, you would be bullied for a longer period of time, vice a MR/HR. Thus you would need to develop stronger ties early on. I believe it the server had a strong foundation, in terms of player base it could succeed.

Bug

Quote from: Haruko on Jul 20, 2016, 11:02 PM
I myself would not, only because I have been playing Mid to HR servers since I left official back in '04. So I've grown accustomed to them.

The idea of a low rate PK server seems innovative, yes. However, I think one of the main issues would be that it being a low rate server, you would be bullied for a longer period of time, vice a MR/HR. Thus you would need to develop stronger ties early on. I believe it the server had a strong foundation, in terms of player base it could succeed.
Had a feeling you wouldn't, based on your earlier posts.  Do you think implementing the minimum level range would help with the bullying, or at least make it more bearable? This way bullies can't prey on low leveled players, and everyone else can put up a fair fight because they're close in level.

Quote from: Minabe on Jul 20, 2016, 10:38 PM
Been a while since i looked for a good one to no avail, all are mid-high rates with higher than 99/70 max lvl or barely have players (less than 10). There was one interesting but it was "hardcore" and wasn't a real pserver.
Not a real pserver?
Yeah, I couldn't find any either. Wasn't sure if it was because no one was interested in playing them, or just nobody cared to make one.

Haruko

Quote from: Bug on Jul 21, 2016, 01:56 AM
Do you think implementing the minimum level range would help with the bullying, or at least make it more bearable? This way bullies can't prey on low leveled players, and everyone else can put up a fair fight because they're close in level.

That would truly be a viable solution, I cannot disagree with you there. My only concern would be, where to draw the line? Level 50+? You'd need to get together a group of interested people and discuss various possibilities and solutions.

But still dying on a lowrate sucks unless it's above 20x I guess? It's just a really hard concept to grasp overall you see. Here's why; When I think of a "PK server" I think of huge brawls breaking out for no reason, could be killing your guildmates low lvl alt over and over, and so a 10+ man fight would break out in CT1 for instance, right? Everyone would have to keep going there after they die, death after death... After death. 20+ deaths later, you look at your exp bar and go "Oh s***... What the fu-".

My main point I am trying to make is that the repercussions for taking part in such events are much more severe(especially if you were 80+), than a MR or HR server. Now, at the same time I am not saying there are those that would not be interested, it's just finding those said people would be few and far apart, no?

All in all, it depends on how low the rates are first. I think at 10x it really wouldn't work, at all. However, increasing it to perhaps 25x just may? But then that goes back to my previous statement, that particular crowd of people would be hard to find. But then again, on the flip side how many other LR servers out there are like that? Just 3 to be exact, and how many are thriving (With a population more then 5)? None.

Judging by these statistics this makes your ideal even harder to grasp. Now it could just possibly work, but you'd need a whole lot more than a simple PK mechanic to draw people in and flourish better than the other 3 servers have already tried in the past.

MelonNotFound

Before the problem with PK or non-PK is the problem of how trust-worthy a server is for a player to invest his time and efforts into. The lower the rate, the more trust needed. After getting burned many times, I find it hard to trust the new low rate servers that pop up every so often.

Back to the main topic, on the server I mentioned, you don't lose EXP from player kill so it's somewhat less of a problem than people spamming branches. Also there was a PK ranking which wasn't based on how many you kill but who you kill. The more your kills, the more points you will give your killer. Once reached a certain amount of kills, your name turns red so everyone will know and target you. So the more you kill people, the more of a better target you become and while everyone gives you the same "punishment" for killing them, the low level / "peace lovers" would give much less reward. Also the rate was 10x despite being an official server.

Talk about community, I believe back in the days everything wasn't just as convenient so we learned to adopt and make good use of what we had. Now when things have become much easier to us, we lose our spirit to adopt to things, instead we want things to adopt to what we find convenient. People were also more sociable and less "machinist", just not in RO but MMO in general. MMORPG were relatively a new thing to us and there wasn't that many of them, the world of RO was still young and a mysterious. We could have fun back then just being a noob, wandering around, sitting somewhere with friends chatting, leveling up slowly all the while exploring the world, just doing these things was fun and satisfying. Nowadays most of us players just want to reach max level, get the best gears as soon as possible and provide that we are better than other people, this makes things a lot more toxic and "anti-social". I too am guilty of this.

Sorry for the rant, it was kind of off-topic from me. My point is that there used to be some good PK servers but they were of a different times and things were different. Just like how most of us were kids when we first logged into RO and now we are adults, we can't go back and so the good things of RO. To do something as "unusual" as making a successful low rate PK server, I think we can't just copy what worked back then, we need a lot of trial and error to find a new path, a new way of doing things which mean there will be many failures before we can see any success. Now I believe there is success worth to find but the cost may not be cheap.

Just my two cents.

I would like to try a low rate PK server but to stay or not is a much wider topic.

Minabe

#20
Doing Tripper's job.

Bug

#21
Quote from: MelonNotFound on Jul 21, 2016, 09:21 AM
Back to the main topic, on the server I mentioned, you don't lose EXP from player kill so it's somewhat less of a problem than people spamming branches. Also there was a PK ranking which wasn't based on how many you kill but who you kill. The more your kills, the more points you will give your killer. Once reached a certain amount of kills, your name turns red so everyone will know and target you. So the more you kill people, the more of a better target you become and while everyone gives you the same "punishment" for killing them, the low level / "peace lovers" would give much less reward. Also the rate was 10x despite being an official server.
I like the sound of this. No one really bothers with the peace-lovers because they don't give you many points, unless you just want to PK them for the hell of it. 
Consider this, if you don't lose EXP from being PK'd and you can only get PK'd by players in your level range, this should prove to be pretty balanced, even on a low rate.

Quote from: MelonNotFound on Jul 21, 2016, 09:21 AM
Talk about community, I believe back in the days everything wasn't just as convenient so we learned to adopt and make good use of what we had. Now when things have become much easier to us, we lose our spirit to adopt to things, instead we want things to adopt to what we find convenient. People were also more sociable and less "machinist", just not in RO but MMO in general. MMORPG were relatively a new thing to us and there wasn't that many of them, the world of RO was still young and a mysterious. We could have fun back then just being a noob, wandering around, sitting somewhere with friends chatting, leveling up slowly all the while exploring the world, just doing these things was fun and satisfying. Nowadays most of us players just want to reach max level, get the best gears as soon as possible and provide that we are better than other people, this makes things a lot more toxic and "anti-social". I too am guilty of this.
So this begs the question, do server owners swim upstream in attempt to make the game more challenging, social and immersive, despite the mysterious and exploratory aspects of the game being obsolete, or do they feed into this existing culture of toxicity and spoon-feeding, where players expect everything on a silver platter?
Seems like most go with the latter,  helping players cut every "unnecessary" corner possible in the name of convenience.
These kind of features only help players who are not familiar with the game. Yes, it helps everyone get through the game faster, but that's an entirely different thing than "getting ahead."
They actually rob players of small opportunities to get ahead.

The opposite extreme would be doing something like getting rid of Teleportation Services, and fly wings only being available as a dropped item (I guess you could have more mobs drop them or something).
Instantly, the world we're all so very familiar with becomes far more vast.
This probably just sounds like a big pain in the ass at first, but consider how much more interesting it would make things. Adapt. Get a creamy card. Stock up on Authoritative Badges. Suck up to every Acolyte you meet. Party more effectively so you don't die and have to walk all the way back. Level with your guild and incorporate e-call, if you're allowed to use it outside of WoE.
This kind of challenge provides tons of opportunities to get ahead, granted you adapt. All the stakes are suddenly higher.
Not saying I would implement this specifically. It's just an example of something that could re-immerse you in the game, without loads of custom content.

Quote from: MelonNotFound on Jul 21, 2016, 09:21 AM
Sorry for the rant, it was kind of off-topic from me. My point is that there used to be some good PK servers but they were of a different times and things were different. Just like how most of us were kids when we first logged into RO and now we are adults, we can't go back and so the good things of RO. To do something as "unusual" as making a successful low rate PK server, I think we can't just copy what worked back then, we need a lot of trial and error to find a new path, a new way of doing things which mean there will be many failures before we can see any success. Now I believe there is success worth to find but the cost may not be cheap.
I like rants. I'm off-topic too, but it's part of a bigger picture.
Yes, the server ought to be solid, trustworthy, and already great with or without PK.
You say we can't copy what worked back then, what do you think is something new we can try?
Where do we blaze this path?

Quote from: Haruko on Jul 21, 2016, 06:55 AM
That would truly be a viable solution, I cannot disagree with you there. My only concern would be, where to draw the line? Level 50+? You'd need to get together a group of interested people and discuss various possibilities and solutions.
Are you referring to the minimum lvl to PK?  I was talking about the level range between players. Sorry for the confusion.

pk_min_lvl: Change this to define the minimum level players can start PK-ing
pk_level_range:  It specifies the maximum level difference between players to let them attack each other.


Quote from: Haruko on Jul 21, 2016, 06:55 AM
But still dying on a lowrate sucks unless it's above 20x I guess? It's just a really hard concept to grasp overall you see. Here's why; When I think of a "PK server" I think of huge brawls breaking out for no reason, could be killing your guildmates low lvl alt over and over, and so a 10+ man fight would break out in CT1 for instance, right? Everyone would have to keep going there after they die, death after death... After death. 20+ deaths later, you look at your exp bar and go "Oh s***... What the fu-".

My main point I am trying to make is that the repercussions for taking part in such events are much more severe(especially if you were 80+), than a MR or HR server. Now, at the same time I am not saying there are those that would not be interested, it's just finding those said people would be few and far apart, no?

misc.conf

// PK Server Mode.
//   Turns entire server pvp(excluding towns).
//   Experience loss is doubled if killed by another player.
//   When players hunt monsters over 20 levels higher, they will receive 15%
//   additional exp., and 25% chance of receiving more items.
//   There is a nopvp.txt for setting up maps not to have pk on in this mode.
//   Novices cannot be attacked and cannot attack.
//   Normal pvp counter and rank display are disabled as well.
// Note: If pk_mode is set to 2 instead of 1 (yes), players will receive a
//   manner penalty of 5 each time they kill another player (see manner_system
//   config to adjust how this will affect players)
pk_mode: 1

// Manner/karma system configuration. Specifies how does negative manner
// (red no chat bubble) affects players (add as needed):
//  0: No penalties.
//  1: Disables chatting (includes whispers, party/guild msgs, etc)
//  2: Disables skill usage
//  4: Disables commands usage
//  8: Disables item usage/picking/dropping
// 16: Disables room creation (chatrooms and vending shops)
//manner_system: 31
manner_system: 0

// For PK Server Mode. Change this to define the minimum level players can start PK-ing
pk_min_level: 55

// For PK Server Mode. It specifies the maximum level difference between
// players to let them attack each other. 0 disables said limit.
pk_level_range: 5
[close]
That's the basic configuration for PK mode. By default, "experience loss is doubled if killed by another player." So that probably contributed to those "Oh shit", WTF!?" moments. Haha.
The penalty can be reduced or disabled all together, and then you can have those all-out brawls in south Prontera, without losing all your progress.
OR the server could implement a custom insurance that doesn't wear off after being KO'ed, so you can die over and over without penalty.

Quote from: Haruko on Jul 21, 2016, 06:55 AM
All in all, it depends on how low the rates are first. I think at 10x it really wouldn't work, at all. However, increasing it to perhaps 25x just may? But then that goes back to my previous statement, that particular crowd of people would be hard to find. But then again, on the flip side how many other LR servers out there are like that? Just 3 to be exact, and how many are thriving (With a population more then 5)? None.
Judging by these statistics this makes your ideal even harder to grasp. Now it could just possibly work, but you'd need a whole lot more than a simple PK mechanic to draw people in and flourish better than the other 3 servers have already tried in the past.
Right. I wouldn't rely on that just the PK mechanic. But I think if you're smart about how you implement it, it could add a fun dynamic to the server,  as long as the negative things, like bullying and exp loss, are addressed.