Server Interest Check?

[Yuzo]

Minabe was checking if you were cookie. cause everyone hates that guy. and he should never make another ro server.

[MyogiRO]

I've read the forums about him or her. And happy to say, no you got the wrong person.

[EclipseToo]

I have to agree and say that a classic server is just a gimmick. Even if you are unique in that you have all mechanics exactly as they were for the given pre-trans episode, you're only going to appeal to the very, very few players that have lived through those days and are interested in re-living them. And even then, you're likely to get a divide between players that just want a small taste of the old mechanics and players that want full-on 100% old mechanics. I think if you want to appeal to more players, you're going to have to just leave mechanics alone and hope that draws in some of the non-traditional pre-trans crowd. And now you're back to being just a gimmick again. Another classic server that's really just an Episode 13.3 server with maps removed.

As for progressing through the episodes, it's not going to work unless you've already completed every server update prior to launch and can smoothly transition between episodes. It is an incredible amount of work to accurately follow the episodes. And if you're not going to follow them accurately, then why bother? You're simple commenting out NPCs that people already know exist, and uncommenting them at a later point.

It's like having someone wrap up your old PS3/360, gifting it to you for Christmas 2016, and expecting you to be excited. It's not going to be exciting. You've already played on the console. In fact, the newer console is already out, and all the new games are being made for it. So at best you're stuck being nostalgic with your same old games. It can be fun for a bit, but eventually you'll get bored.

What exactly is it that you're trying to accomplish? A better PvE environment? In that case, reducing content is not the way to go. I think the lack of content in pre-renewal is what killed it. There hasn't been new pre-renewal content in many, many years. No new challenges, no new areas, no new instances, nothing for PvE players to go, "Hey! That looks like a fun area to tackle!" You'd need to do some serious work on making new instances or areas. Or somehow find a way to add new challenges to existing areas. Making potions less effective and restricting levels to 70 isn't really the same thing. Gimping players isn't the same thing as challenge imo.

[Mrew2]

@Mrew2

The goal of the server is to re-introduce the game from it's roots, and then implement changes early on to match the difficulty of the game. I am particularly very keen on improving the PvE experience of the players.

Regarding Acolytes vs Potions, as I kept saying before, the potions update will only last up until episode 1 or 2. The reason why is to amplify the need to partying and to experience a level of difficulty while leveling up and not just primarily spamming pots away. Players complain it's way too easy to level RO if you know where to level, well, here's a handicap, then it's a complain for making it hard. Always really hard to please players. As for melee characters, if you think it is that hard, it isn't you just need to kite properly and not be Rambo-diving dozens of mobs at a time. And you say the server will be Acolyte-Archer fest for a few weeks, well on every server I have played, it has always been Priest-Hunter pairings during leveling, so what's the difference?

As for zeny, the sell prices have been tweaked to offer up only a percentage of how much they would have sold normally, this presents a slower zeny gain even with increased drop rates. The increased drop rate just negates the issue of "Oh I got to 99, but I'm just wearing cotton shirts and a composite bow, now what?"

And no, this is not a blatant "pre-promotion" this is a way to ensure that I get anyone's ideas on how the server is shaping up and whatnot. See how other servers are fairing, listing to players' requests along the way instead of implementing it before-hand to make sure everything is secured and balanced.

If you have a server, have a conviction not to bow down to players, instead, listen to their suggestions and implement which will be a greater good for the server and not just for the greater good of a certain amount of players.

Ugh, man. I'm really debating whether you are a troll or not because you pretty much did almost exactly what I said you did before, which was restating what you had already previously stated (which I read and took into account) and retyping them expecting to convince someone with it. But I'll address your new info, anyway because I'm bored.

You're not exactly making the game difficult, rather lopsided. It's inconsistent and that was my main issue with the potion change. You can say training an archer or acolyte is "easy" but it's more that it is just more annoying to level a melee class because of your change and how RO is in general. Why kite if you can have the enemy half dead before it reaches you? Especially when a main aspect to you being able to kill things, as a melee class, has been severally gimped. There will definitely still be other classes, just not "worth" the effort until later.

As for the two weeks thing, I believe you said one episode every week and, according to the wikipedia article, WoE was episode 4. So... Three weeks. I originally thought it was Episode 5 but it was inbetween what we both side. Nonetheless, far too long for more than half your classes to be gimped. That does not amplify partying, that alienates people who play melee. And although you say the rates are 3x, you also state you tinkered with the exp tables, so calling it 3x is hardly realistic as it will most likely be "higher" in terms of rates vs. exp gains compared to original. Difficult was never really a strong suit of ROs. RO is not exactly hard, more... tedious if anything. To new players, it definitely is hard but to the community that has been playing for years, the game is not hard at all, even with your potion nerf. It just means don't play melee classes until later. Also, if your argument to the archer+acolyte this is, "Well... It always happens like that", then why bother changing potions that make this "standard" more ideal? That just seems nonsensical.

Yes, this is the fourth(?) time you have said zeny will be useful because... reasons? You never give a reason. You just say Zeny is still a thing and zeny will be about as hard as it will to obtain as if it were on a lower rate because of this nerf to their zeny sell price but still... Why do we need Zeny? You nerfed potions and increased their price in the vendor, so, as I said before, you promote hunter + priest and then doubly nerf half your other classes. On a episode 1 server and you think people will want zeny? For what? I guess buying your first equipment, but after that? Zeny is, at a whole, pretty pointless when you look towards end-game, which people will reach extremely fast given your experience changes. As for the reaching 99 while still in a cotton shirt, yes, that is a thing but if you didn't take the time to gather some gear before that, it's kinda on the player. You expect people to be fully decked out by the time they reach 99? To reach end-game faster than they already will? That seems a bit... flawed.

I said it was pre-promotion because this seems like such a half-assed idea. Sorry to say but that's just my opinion. I've seen servers that have implemented your idea, servers that made it so that you regen extremely fast, servers that changed everything and all of them died so fast with barely any population. I'm giving you actual criticism on your ideas and pointing out flaws rather than just saying, "Lol no." I actually lol-ed when you said, listen to suggestion and implement them because I don't see that kind of person in you. You mistake your near-sightedness for conviction and you really need to think about this. Out of everybody who has responded here, only one has been positive, most of the rest have been, in the end, negative. Some were neutral. If you can go through with your idea when you ask for feedback and get a bunch of negative feedback, it makes me wonder. Hence why I think you may be a troll but I got time to kill, so feel free to eat~

[MyogiRO]

I do understand where you guys are coming from. As for development status or how long was this server under so? I'd say around 6 - 8 months already and we've reverted much back to Episode 1 which was harder than you think it is. Commenting NPCs and etc were not the issue, it was the features that we had to track down, to fix bugs that we find along the way. If you think it's as easy as you think as well as keeping the updates consistent, I'd challenge you to do the same.

First off, the rates, what I have in mind is to provide a low rate exp rate server with a mid rate drop rate. This is aimed to people who wants to feel the leveling aspect of the game and alleviate the farming issue.

Zeny, what can it do? Features in the game will be very dependent on zeny. There is no donation system in place and there is no plan to add it at all since the server will be self funded and is a non-donation server, so if players want some premium items or cosmetic items, zeny is the only way to get them or some kind of quest.

Melee classes are trumped. Yes they are, thus increasing the difficulty in leveling them, and is the point I'm trying to get through. I myself am a melee class player and when me and my friends tried the server out for testing, we had lots of fun tackling areas where we had to carefully advance in order to not get the party wiped due to restrictions to recovery items.

Herbs, Meat, other recov items. Yes, they still heal the player at the same rate, but is it readily available? And is it efficient to use compared to light weight potions instead?

And no, the potions are priced regularly, slightly increased yes, but not drastically. And to be honest we even planned to have a supply and demand system in the game, but we deemed it to be extreme.

Want to buy some Red Potions? Too bad, you'll have to sell some red herbs to the NPC to replenish their supply of Red Potions. Want to buy some "heavy" armor, too bad, they're out and you need to sell iron ores and etc to replenish their supply. We were able to implement it but it will be too punishing so we removed it.

We have so many ideas we want to implement, but as most of you have pointed out, any changes turn off players, which is why we toned the server features down.

[Mrew2]

I do understand where you guys are coming from. As for development status or how long was this server under so? I'd say around 6 - 8 months already and we've reverted much back to Episode 1 which was harder than you think it is. Commenting NPCs and etc were not the issue, it was the features that we had to track down, to fix bugs that we find along the way. If you think it's as easy as you think as well as keeping the updates consistent, I'd challenge you to do the same.

First off, the rates, what I have in mind is to provide a low rate exp rate server with a mid rate drop rate. This is aimed to people who wants to feel the leveling aspect of the game and alleviate the farming issue.

Zeny, what can it do? Features in the game will be very dependent on zeny. There is no donation system in place and there is no plan to add it at all since the server will be self funded and is a non-donation server, so if players want some premium items or cosmetic items, zeny is the only way to get them or some kind of quest.

Melee classes are trumped. Yes they are, thus increasing the difficulty in leveling them, and is the point I'm trying to get through. I myself am a melee class player and when me and my friends tried the server out for testing, we had lots of fun tackling areas where we had to carefully advance in order to not get the party wiped due to restrictions to recovery items.

Herbs, Meat, other recov items. Yes, they still heal the player at the same rate, but is it readily available? And is it efficient to use compared to light weight potions instead?

And no, the potions are priced regularly, slightly increased yes, but not drastically. And to be honest we even planned to have a supply and demand system in the game, but we deemed it to be extreme.

Want to buy some Red Potions? Too bad, you'll have to sell some red herbs to the NPC to replenish their supply of Red Potions. Want to buy some "heavy" armor, too bad, they're out and you need to sell iron ores and etc to replenish their supply. We were able to implement it but it will be too punishing so we removed it.

We have so many ideas we want to implement, but as most of you have pointed out, any changes turn off players, which is why we toned the server features down.

I loled at that first part. Provoking a pissing contest? Rates are fine, like I said, just the disconnect between whether looting is actually worth it or not but if zeny does have use, it does force people to loot. Just means that long trips to certain dungeons won't really be a thing. That's up to you to decide whether you want to alleviate that later down the road when you implement more of the "longer" dungeons, like Thanatos, Abyss or Nameless.

So... About Melee classes, you want them to be harder than they already are? Why? That just seems messed up to the melee classes that do want to play. Like I said, it just promotes long ranged play until the potion change is reverted. As for other recovery items, I don't know how much of a difference things are, in terms of mob drops, but if they are similar to how they are now, meat should be in good hand. Yes, it may weigh more but it is nice to fall back on if things get too intense. If you are partying, as you seem to want to promote, being over 50% is probably not much of an issue for the standard tank. The rest is whatever.

All in all, if it is a self sustained server, why not let your creativity go wild then? Since you have changed potions, despite how small it is, if you keep it you will lose a lot of people because they just don't care for "dramatic" changes on a pre-episode server. With that in mind, you can do whatever you want at this point since the people you would have alienated have already been alienated, so why stop there?

[Minabe]

Doing Tripper's job.

[MyogiRO]

@Minabe, this is not in a "business-like" perspective, more like a more mature and a more composed approach. And what is wrong with being an international server? I do wish for the server to cater to any player from any part of the world as this is an open server.

And to start off, you have said there's so many wrongs on my posts in this thread, might I ask for a brief summary list? I'd be really grateful, since all I can see for now is as follows:

- potion issue
- drop rate issue
- episode issue(?)
- accountability(?) - just exactly how do you get accountability aside from being some big shot who has reputation that they can throw around

If there are more i'd really appreciate it so I can review and try to see what else can be done.

--

@Mrew2

I didn't mean it to be like a contest of sorts, I am just expressing that it isn't as simple as it looks.

Anyways, I'd like to ask for your opinion then on how to "remedy" this disconnect thing from looting vs not looting. Because early on while playing, me and my friends were looting the hell of anything dropping out even at 30x drop rates just to save enough zeny for supplies along the way, even with a dedicated acolyte playing with us.

Potions, okay, so we can neglect the change and not incorporate it, so I'd like to have another option on how to make the game harder early on. And more creative as well, this was my best idea on how to change the game play of how players tackle dungeons and other areas effectively which was tanking out while potting and whatnot ,especially during MVP hunts.

[Minabe]

Doing Tripper's job.

[MyogiRO]

Ah yes, sorry, that's my bad. Will of course rectify the inconsistency as soon as I can, maybe in a few hours I can update it. I just got home so yeah.

[EclipseToo]

If you wanted to be a unique classic server you'd have to stick in Episode 1 and not have Monk, Sage, etc. and somehow find a way to add in things to keep players happy. Not sure how that would work though.

If you wanted to do Episode progression, well, look how it turned out on OriginsRO. Server's still there, but with 30ish players only to gain a slight rise in popularity when a major server collapses.

If you wanted to do a faster progression that OriginsRO, then you'll lose the novelty of it. You'll end up right at Episode 5 in a few weeks and nothing will distinguish you from all the other classic servers.

So what's going to get players to join? Or stay? Or join later after you've become the same episode as all the other classic servers? From what I can see, you've only listed rates (easily adjustable), a potion nerf, a heal change, and a restriction to first jobs only and a level 70/50 cap. If you've got some actual features, you should list them because it's very hard to say if a server would be enjoyable or worth making if you just give us some very simple basics like rates and episode.

Classic servers used to be a draw because there was typically only one real classic server at the given time. Now they are plentiful, and no more than a gimmick. So you need to set yourself apart somehow. And if episode 1 is all that's going to set you apart, you're not going to thrive because you'll either lack content forever or end up the same episode as other servers and thus, not unique anymore.

[MyogiRO]

All of these are pending features to be added in the server



PvE

- Server-wide monthly quest
   - Rewards will be based on how many of the said monsters are killed, the more you've killed, the higher tier your reward will be
- Randomized monster hunting quest
   - This will activate randomly while you are hunting monsters in your field
- New Leveling Area
   - Quest-based entry
   - Story-line based quest
- New persistent dungeon
   - Based off on how SAO works, players will play objectively to free the cities from certain bosses.
   - Death means you can't enter the dungeon for 3 days.
- New for fun only player-activated event
   - Based off from Hero Survival games from WC3
   - Characters will be reset after finishing or failing the event

NPCs
- Healer
    - Charges 100z per heal and transports players to the save area for the inn
- Potion Maker
    - 2 x Herb + 1 x Empty Bottle -> Potion
    - Chance to fail, reducing quantity by half
    - Chance to crit, increase quantity by 100%

[EclipseToo]

I'm not sure I'd count quests or monster hunting as features of a server since every server, including officials, have them. Unless you've somehow found a way to make them exciting, of course.

I'm not sure what new leveling areas you'd be referring to. Existing maps or custom maps?

Your ideas for dungeons and hero survival could be interesting. Wouldn't mind hearing more information on that. How do you plan on making it work with only first classes in episode 1? There's not a lot of different skills or high DPS for that matter. Sounds like you want to make a pretty custom server though. I think if you want proper feedback you'd have to give a lot of detail. Or you could just go through with making it and get some people to test it out to see if they like it.

[MyogiRO]

More information on Hero Survival (Kudos to other developers if you can make it work on your server)

It is simple, the monsters that are killed per round will not provide any XP at all, however, after every round, players are given 5 levels. Every five rounds, there will be a boss in which that will drop points for everyone that they can use on their official character if they wish so.

You start off as a Novice, only with your trusty Knife and Cotton Shirts. You will be in a party (if you are not running it solo) and the kill points to buy items will be distributed by this formula.

( You + Number of Party Members * 2 ) / Wave Number = Your Points (Only you will receive this point if you are the killer)

However, using this formula, players who will be playing support will be without gears, then we came up with this. So when everytime someone kills a monster in your party, everyone will receive the following points

( Number of Party Members * 2 ) / Wave Number = Party Member Points (You will not receive this point if you are the killer)

It is hard to really explain it, maybe a showcase video will clarify things, however, the Hero Survival mod is still under works and is not fully working.

What we got working in it is the monster mechanics that change depending on the number of players and what monsters will spawn.

So how do we get items? NPCs will be selling every item in the game, and how do you get it? You will have to buy the required items to craft the item you wish. For instance, to get a Main Gauche, the NPC will ask you for a Knife + Points + Iron Ore (dropped by mobs) and etc.

Some high level armor or weapon will require even their own blue prints to be crafted. What's fun in this is that you will have random stats augmented into the crafted weapon or armor.