Private Server Moving Forward

Started by ShadowLight, Feb 10, 2015, 11:58 PM

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ShadowLight

Hi folks,

I used to own a small private server, roughly about 100+ players. I still remember the joy/pain of owning a server as if it was yesterday. But now after 10 years (yes, a long time ago) and after learning so much in college and work (mostly software related), I'm thinking of applying what I've learned to start a new Ragnarok server.

The problem is, I left Ragnarok too long to know if people are still interested in new servers (or is Ragnarok dead?). If they are, what kind of server do you players prefer now? I set my mind on a low-mid rate server but there are a million possible features I can add in. I want to add in features that interest the players (they are the one playing the game afterall). And I'm hoping I'd get some feedback from you guys.

To make it simple, I'll list down questions that I might find useful:

1. Pre-renewal or renewal?  /hmm

2. I love making custom quest-lines and lore, but do you find it appealing? Or do you think it doesn't belong in RO? I am hoping to improve leveling experience (and reducing bots  /pif)

3. Would you hate me if I make minor changes on skills (with the best of my ability to balance)? I'm thinking of making it a little bit more fun without losing the RO feel.

4. I'm not planning to add in teleport/heal NPCs. Instead, I'd increase sitting regeneration and add custom subway station (believe it or not, I have it already).

I don't want to bombard you with too many questions, but answering these would definitely help a ton. Feel free to add any other suggestion/opinion  /lv .

Cheers,
Shadowlight

Playtester

There are still people playing RO, but they are mostly focusing on very few servers. 90% of the servers that open will never see more than 20 players ever. Others could build up hype enough to start with over 100 and then quickly get to 300 players or even more. Usually servers never last more than 3 months though. Population falls down until server is closed. Either causes by the Admin being overworked and not able to provide sufficient updates to keep the game interesting or even if the Admin doesn't do any mistakes, it's enough if there is some fight between two guilds which makes one guild quit and then the "server is dead" chain reactions starts itself.

There is a mixed variety on what people are looking for, I make some statistics a while ago:
14.5% of the people looking for a server are looking for pre-trans.
43.5% of the people looking for a server are looking for pre-renewal.
24.6% of the people looking for a server are looking for renewal.
17.4% of the people don't care about the type or are looking for something "other".

It also depends a lot on the offer however. For example they are a lot more pre-renewal servers than there are renewal servers, so it might actually be either to get players for a renewal server at the moment. But renewal has the problem that the emulators haven't really correctly implemented it yet, so you will have to do a lot of manual corrections if you are aiming for a good renewal server. In pre-renewal it's also not so clear what people really want, because some look for pre-renewal for an official experience, whereas others really want their old emulator experience (with all the "bugs" they learned to use). In pre-trans people are split between those that want all the skill updates and fixes from the trans update and just not the trans classes, whereas other want all the skills reverted to how they were pre-trans.

There is no definitive answer in what is best or if it's even worth trying to open yet another server.


Regarding your other questions (2-4) there will be some conflict with your specs. A custom quest-line is still accepted by most, but skill tweaks are fairly unpopular and certainly completely disliked by low-rate players. On high rates that's a different story. So you'll need to at least create a mid rate for that. But that stands a bit in conflict with your "no teleport/healer NPCs". People who don't play low rate, to a very high percentage, don't even want to waste a single second walking or resting, so even if you speed that up somehow, people will just ask you "why not just add teleporter / healer?".

rasetsu

#2
Hi there!
I've been playing RO since iRO days(2001) up until now(2015).
to make things short in my opinion:
Disclaimer: All the words/sentences below are all based on my opinion alone and no other.



1. Pre-Renewal - the best medicine you can take, since renewal mechanics are based on 3rd Jobs. Yes you can balance the 3rd Job classes but i've been to servers like those and dramatically fail, why is the question isn't it? There is no reason to party because the mobs you actually want to kill to level are dead in one hit and/or you're doing an EXP quest. Most monsters you actually want to farm are things you kill in one-shot: powerful mobs rarely have what you really want. Basically the essence or Ragnarok being RPG is G-O-N-E.

2. Custom Quests - Some players doesnt even know that there are default iRO quests in game for headgears and stuffs before playing Ragnarok, now in the modern Ragnarok era Players are just playing for PvP, GvG, Battlegrounds, etc. Quest line is hardly alive on LowRates/Midrates server but they are ultimately a-hit on Highrate/Super Highrate servers purely because they have custom items that gives OP stats for PvP nothing else. If you want to add Customs Quest it is preferable that it has the attributes that most PvP players must-have (e.g. Disguise Headgears) Yes, disguises, nothing beats a handsome Assassin Cross entering PvP wearing a Valkyrie Helm and makes his opponents wonder what is under that particular headgear. On some occasion there are a lot of Low/Mid rate servers that has this kind of server material and they are up and running for years. OverPowered Custom is a time-bomb awaiting detonation.

3.Rebuffing/Nerfing some skills of what you think is a must for a balanced game-play won't hurt but over-doing it might result to a time-bomb. (e.g. Assassin Cross' Linked Sonic Blow) yes most Server nerf this because it is *Ultra Mega Hyper Super* Deadly if it is used wisely (I've seen a lot of Players that has deadly hands while using Assassin it was awesome experience) some server nerf the (Enchant Deadly Poison) it is one of the killer skills out there but nerfing Assassin Cross' to the bone is a No-No. Since Ragnarok begun and Trans Jobs were introduced all the job Classes are balanced, I know a player who uses High Priest and kills particularly anyone on PvP except Paladin and Lord Knights (Come on these 2 Tankies are pain in the @$$). So you can set up a Beta of your idea and then have the players decide which one is best for the server. If you ask me it's better to let it be.

4.
1st Point:
No Warpers? Well that is a little debatable but noted since you said that "add custom subway station (believe it or not, I have it already)" would that be the same as a Warper NPC? I'm guessing if your Subway system is somewhat like Warper NPC that would be great I'll be glad to pay 100zenny to ride it every time i want to go to a Field/Town/Dungeon :D that will totally make the NPC profitable :D I've been to a server that has a *Healer NPC* that charge 100z for every heal and every week all the Money that the Healer NPC gained was Put on a Lottery it was a really cool idea it was like a charity sweepstakes, the community will gain from NPCs so if you can make your Subway system play a lottery every week or every other that would be awesome! :D

2nd Point:
No Healers? Well that is new, noted you said "Instead, I'd increase sitting regeneration". How far are you going to increase it? like x100%? x200%? x300%? On the other hand High Priests would be really USEFUL! (YAY! /ho Finally Priests arent for dual client stuffs, we can finally see players playing Priests as their Main! Clap Clap Clap! /no1) and not just that Osiris Card would finally be USEFUL too!! (YAY!!  /heh) Literally that would be a big impact on the community depending on how far you are willing to increase the passive regen of every character like (e.g. Paladin and Lord Knight - Increased HP Recovery Skill) to get it balanced. I would like to see a beta of your idea.



And that ends my opinion,,it seems you are a creative person I really like that. I'm hoping I could work for you for in-game stuffs  /heh
If you need to know some particular server stuffs feel free to PM me I would gladly tell you every little thing I know about the servers nowadays. /no1


ShadowLight

#3
Playtester & rasetsu, thank you so much for your input! It is very clear and useful.   /lv

Quote from: rasetsu on Feb 11, 2015, 03:18 AM
3.Rebuffing/Nerfing some skills of what you think is a must for a balanced game-play won't hurt but over-doing it might result to a time-bomb. (e.g. Assassin Cross' Linked Sonic Blow) yes most Server nerf this because it is *Ultra Mega Hyper Super* Deadly if it is used wisely (I've seen a lot of Players that has deadly hands while using Assassin it was awesome experience) some server nerf the (Enchant Deadly Poison) it is one of the killer skills out there but nerfing Assassin Cross' to the bone is a No-No. Since Ragnarok begun and Trans Jobs were introduced all the job Classes are balanced, I know a player who uses High Priest and kills particularly anyone on PvP except Paladin and Lord Knights (Come on these 2 Tankies are pain in the @$$). So you can set up a Beta of your idea and then have the players decide which one is best for the server. If you ask me it's better to let it be.

4.
1st Point:
No Warpers? Well that is a little debatable but noted since you said that "add custom subway station (believe it or not, I have it already)" would that be the same as a Warper NPC? I'm guessing if your Subway system is somewhat like Warper NPC that would be great I'll be glad to pay 100zenny to ride it every time i want to go to a Field/Town/Dungeon :D that will totally make the NPC profitable :D I've been to a server that has a *Healer NPC* that charge 100z for every heal and every week all the Money that the Healer NPC gained was Put on a Lottery it was a really cool idea it was like a charity sweepstakes, the community will gain from NPCs so if you can make your Subway system play a lottery every week or every other that would be awesome! :D

2nd Point:
No Healers? Well that is new, noted you said "Instead, I'd increase sitting regeneration". How far are you going to increase it? like x100%? x200%? x300%? On the other hand High Priests would be really USEFUL! (YAY! /ho Finally Priests arent for dual client stuffs, we can finally see players playing Priests as their Main! Clap Clap Clap! /no1) and not just that Osiris Card would finally be USEFUL too!! (YAY!!  /heh) Literally that would be a big impact on the community depending on how far you are willing to increase the passive regen of every character like (e.g. Paladin and Lord Knight - Increased HP Recovery Skill) to get it balanced. I would like to see a beta of your idea.



And that ends my opinion,,it seems you are a creative person I really like that. I'm hoping I could work for you for in-game stuffs  /heh
If you need to know some particular server stuffs feel free to PM me I would gladly tell you every little thing I know about the servers nowadays. /no1
Train station: Is like another airship, but it will drop to different cities. Unlike airship, you can actually jump in between stations. For example the route from Geffen To Morroc would the be gef_fild and moc_fild, depending on where the train is moving, you can jump out and you'd be in the fields where the train is (I will make it clear in the train where the train is at the moment).

Healing Regen: For now this is only for normal sit-downs. Right now it is made to increase based on maxHP & maxSP: 2% per second. The passive healing for classes will be tweak accordingly to balance things out (they should be too weak). This includes First Aid skill, to make it still useful it is now remove any debuff (stun/sleep/frozen) when used and has a 1 minute cooldown.

______________________________

Just to elaborate more for the minor skill edits, the changes are made mostly on the skills that are least used (at least I think so). Here are the example of changes that I've already made:

1. Soul strike (will apply a stackable "Weakened Soul" status on the target for 8 seconds - stacks up to 5 times). "Weakened Soul" will cause player to receive 3% more damage when getting hit by Soul Strike. Getting hit by Napalm Beat will consume the stack and deals 20% more damage per stack.

2. Using combos on Champions and Monks will give the player "Fury" buff that will give them temporary movement speed and attack damage boost for 5 seconds (5% boosts per combo chain). For example, Triple Attack -> Chain Combo -> Combo Finish will give you 10% boosts while Triple Attack -> Chain Combo -> Combo Finish -> Tiger -> Chain Crush will give you 20% boosts. This is to encourage combo monks build (getting bored of only seeing Asura monks).

3. Another changes I made that I am not sure to put in is this (for balance reasons): Arrow Making skill. Arrow Making skill allows user to choose an arrow (Fire Arrow etc). This element will last for 1 minute. Using the skill will cause a window to pop-out and you can choose the type of arrow you prefer.

These are among the changes that is already implemented (not just a concept, I'm not fooling around about it). Hopefully you guys get an idea of "minor edits" (some are not so minor) that I am doing. Mostly to open up skill builds that are considered "meh" and allow player to have more freedom to play RO. Although it has been already implement, I can still pull back some changes that feels out of place or imbalance before I release the game.

Major changes made is in the leveling system. Instead of increasing the rates, I changed the required exp to level up (it is more linear than it is exponential). Therefore, you'd probably only need about 5-6 minutes per level (if you're hitting the right monsters), therefore you'd should to move to another location quicker (hoping to make leveling less boring and bots a little pointless). There will also be mini-bosses that requires about 3-5 players of the boss' level to kill in each non-MVP dungeon level that would give you good amount of EXP.

Looking forward to your feedback guys.  /no1

Cheers,
ShadowLight

Gene

Quote from: ShadowLight on Feb 10, 2015, 11:58 PM

1. Pre-renewal or renewal?  /hmm
Pre-renewal. Though you may have to compete with many other pre-renewal servers.


2. I love making custom quest-lines and lore, but do you find it appealing? Or do you think it doesn't belong in RO? I am hoping to improve leveling experience (and reducing bots  /pif)
I may find it appealing as long as these can be managed alone(time consuming), and by party(challenge), several servers require heavy teamwork and all that ignoring all those lone players on quest-lines or even custom content/quests.

3. Would you hate me if I make minor changes on skills (with the best of my ability to balance)? I'm thinking of making it a little bit more fun without losing the RO feel.
No I won't hate you, I would want to see new things other than asura and AD spams.

4. I'm not planning to add in teleport/heal NPCs. Instead, I'd increase sitting regeneration and add custom subway station (believe it or not, I have it already).
Interesting. Hope you put in fields as stations. But IMO, I prefer having my healer ready.

Cheers,
Shadowlight

If you ever release your server, message me. I'm very interested unless it's a lowrate lol

ShadowLight

Another thing that I am planning to remove is (believe it or not), vending. I couldn't handle the fact that players would AFK in town or auto-trade to sell items when there are such thing as Auction. It reduces the interaction between players and promotes lag due to the massive number of players sitting in town to vend.

But again, this is just my two cents. I might be wrong (or get flamed because of it). Why do you think people decide not to use the auction system?

Cheers,
ShadowLight

Zhin

Hm, I dunno about removing vendors. In theory I like it, but vendors are such a unique aspect to RO. Every other MMORPG has an auction house, while RO players have to make a specific type of character who can go out and set up shop somewhere, making specialty shops or selling things they made themselves. Besides that, you'll confuse players and lose out on pretty much the only use for merchants. Smiths and Alchemists have their minor uses, but vending is still a huge part of their skillset. What do you plan on replacing Vending with?


ShadowLight

Quote from: Zhin on Feb 11, 2015, 04:59 PM
Hm, I dunno about removing vendors. In theory I like it, but vendors are such a unique aspect to RO. Every other MMORPG has an auction house, while RO players have to make a specific type of character who can go out and set up shop somewhere, making specialty shops or selling things they made themselves. Besides that, you'll confuse players and lose out on pretty much the only use for merchants. Smiths and Alchemists have their minor uses, but vending is still a huge part of their skillset. What do you plan on replacing Vending with?

The fact that it is a unique feature for RO is the reason why I'm hesitant about replacing it.

But from what I see, it shouldn't affect any other skills Merchant, Blacksmith or Alchemist have (it is not a requirement for any other skills either). I'd add in something to improve combat (Increase damage based on current weight) or utility (Reduce the penalty for overweight by 5% per level or summon an NPC that allow players to buy/sell items). I like the utility since it would pair nicely with my sit regeneration boost modification (merchant-based class can carry more items and still have natural regen) and the NPC summon would make it more social friendly.

Cheers,
ShadowLight

ggwp

1. Stay out from Renewal server if you dont have any renewal experiences.
2. As long its not quest for OP things.
3. Should ask your player instead.
4. 5k zeny healer is fine.

QuoteThis includes First Aid skill, to make it still useful it is now remove any debuff (stun/sleep/frozen) when used and has a 1 minute cooldown.

Inflict sleep to enemy in PvP. Enemy use First Aid. /ragequit

3. Another changes I made that I am not sure to put in is this (for balance reasons): Arrow Making skill. Arrow Making skill allows user to choose an arrow element. This element will last for 1 minute. Using the skill will cause a window to pop-out and you can choose the type of arrow you prefer.

Self endow for OAB user without needing elemental ores ? RIP PvE  /...

ShadowLight

Quote from: ggwp on Feb 11, 2015, 05:54 PM
1. Stay out from Renewal server if you dont have any renewal experiences.
2. As long its not quest for OP things.
3. Should ask your player instead.
4. 5k zeny healer is fine.

Inflict sleep to enemy in PvP. Enemy use First Aid. /ragequit

3. Another changes I made that I am not sure to put in is this (for balance reasons): Arrow Making skill. Arrow Making skill allows user to choose an arrow element. This element will last for 1 minute. Using the skill will cause a window to pop-out and you can choose the type of arrow you prefer.

Self endow for OAB user without needing elemental ores ? RIP PvE  /...

3. I don't have players yet, the reason why I'm asking questions here.

4. 5k zeny is definitely fine and I'm not removing them. I'm just adding another feature to help players heal up on the go.

First Aid has a cooldown of 1 minute. And everyone has them. It is still open for tweaking as needed. But for now after some playtesting, it is quite balanced in PvP.

You might have to elaborate on the Self endow OAB, I'm not sure why it'd mess up PvE. The changing arrow element is the same as equipping an elemental arrow in RO, so in original RO you can still do it.

Keep in mind that most of the things posted are ideas (implemented but not released on a live server), so it is still up for tweaking.

Love the feedbacks. Keep em coming!

Cheers,
ShadowLight

Rider

I'd say stick with what you know best (in this case pre-renewal). Renewal is a different game mechanics all together and if you prefer classic over trans then go for it, you'll get players either way.

Quests are good and not many write decent quests these days.

Rebalancing skills is fine as long as it is minimal and doesn't affect gameplay too much.

Teleport and custom support NPCs requirement will be based on the type of server. Majority of the mid-rate community will demand it but it might work in a low-rate server.

If you don't like vending so much, just disabled auto-vending. I don't see much problem with legit vends because all it does is spare some chat spams on S/T> items

Elemental enchant is a bad idea since it will make sniper a lot more powerful and will destroy the economy for every other bow that isn't a damage booster like Orc Archer Bow or Hunter/Event Bow (renewal).

ShadowLight

Quote from: Rider on Feb 11, 2015, 06:31 PM
I'd say stick with what you know best (in this case pre-renewal). Renewal is a different game mechanics all together and if you prefer classic over trans then go for it, you'll get players either way.

Quests are good and not many write decent quests these days.

Rebalancing skills is fine as long as it is minimal and doesn't affect gameplay too much.

Teleport and custom support NPCs requirement will be based on the type of server. Majority of the mid-rate community will demand it but it might work in a low-rate server.

If you don't like vending so much, just disabled auto-vending. I don't see much problem with legit vends because all it does is spare some chat spams on S/T> items

Elemental enchant is a bad idea since it will make sniper a lot more powerful and will destroy the economy for every other bow that isn't a damage booster like Orc Archer Bow or Hunter/Event Bow (renewal).

Again, the effect is the same as when you change your arrows (i.e. if you use fire element, you are actually just equipping Fire Arrows instead of the arrow you're using) so it should not affect how it works in PvE (unless I'm still missing something ... please let me know).

Rider

#12
Quote from: ShadowLight on Feb 11, 2015, 06:37 PM
Again, the effect is the same as when you change your arrows (i.e. if you use fire element, you are actually just equipping Fire Arrows instead of the arrow you're using) so it should not affect how it works in PvE (unless I'm still missing something ... please let me know).

OAB/HB/EB provide 50% more damage when used with a certain type of arrow. So that makes your total dmg 150% than normal. When you use an endow that is 100% effective against a mob, your final damage is gonna be 300% Now if you used a normal bow with an elemental arrow it would've only been 200% against the same mob. So basically endow is better and lets the user reach a higher damage modifier.

People farm elemental stones just to play with endow on and still you can never get Ghost endow. By giving players endow there is no more need for farming these stones or making elemental bow to farm in certain spots since you can use an universal bow along with the endow skill as needed. The archer class is already efficient as it is and there is no need to aid them further to outclass the rest.

ShadowLight

Quote from: Rider on Feb 11, 2015, 06:50 PM
OAB/HB/EB provide 50% more damage when used with a certain type of arrow. So that makes your total dmg 150% than normal. When you use an endow that is 100% effective against a mob, your final damage is gonna be 300% Now if you used a normal bow with fire arrow it would've only been 200% against the same mob. So basically endow is better and lets the user reach a higher damage modifier.

People farm elemental stones just to play with endow on and still you can never get Ghost endow. By giving players endow there is no more need for farming these stones or making elemental bow to farm in certain spots since you can use a universal bow and just use your endow skill as needed. The archer class is already efficient as it is and there is no need to aid them further to outclass the rest.

But the skill will make them equip another arrow (not just simply change the elements). Therefore, if for example OAB has 50% more damage on Steel Arrow, when the player use the new "Arrow Making" skill, choose "Fire Arrow" in the drop-down window while using a Steel Arrow, it would change as if they are using fire arrows (hence, overwrites the Steel Arrow). The 50% more damage would disappear. Hope this would clear up confusion.

Cheers,
ShadowLight

Rider

I thought you were claiming that endow is the same thing as using an elemental arrow. If it is just a skill to arrow swap then I guess it''s fine. Sorry for the misunderstanding  /ok

ShadowLight

Quote from: Rider on Feb 11, 2015, 07:01 PM
I thought you were claiming that endow is the same thing as using an elemental arrow. If it is just a skill to arrow swap then I guess it''s fine. Sorry for the misunderstanding  /ok

Don't apologize, it is totally my fault for wording it wrongly. Thanks for your feedback, it keeps my eyes open for possible exploits. Need more people like you guys.  /lv

Cheers,
ShadowLight

wobin123

I like all of your ideas. PM me if your server is up or if you need partner who has passion in ragnarok. Goodluck!

Rider

Quote from: wobin123 on Feb 21, 2015, 02:51 AM
I like all of your ideas. PM me if your server is up or if you need partner who has passion in ragnarok. Goodluck!
He already started it under the name, Ragnarok Immersion. You'll find it in the mid-rate server ad section.