One4RO

[Vanidel]

Alright, before we start this, I wanna start off.
I've donated to this server before. I do like it so far.
But the donation gears are rather imbalanced, but that is not the point here.

Well, in the pictures im about to show you, I was approached by a player offering to sell me in game items for real world currency.
I played along, honestly tempted to buy the damn'd things, but I realized I should do something dickish and totally within the rules sense this guy really wanted to be an idiot.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate001.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate002.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate003.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate004.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate005.jpg

Now this is where it gets REALLY INTERESTING.
Apparently, this guy actually owns the paypal account that people donate to. What I had donated to before. Thats how he knew I would be able to buy them. Clever git.
He naively went off on this thing about trust. Being the devious bastard I am, I played along. This guy honestly expected me to buy these items and break the rules. He actually did hand me the phree card and I handed it back, playing along. This guy was hooked thinking I was going to buy.

Here are some more pictures of the convo.
I "agreed" to "pay" for Phreeoni and Maya Purple.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate006.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate007.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate008.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate009.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate010.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate011.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate012.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate013.jpg

The last 2 cards in my inventory are Phreeoni and Maya Purple

After having the cards traded to me; I never sent the money and I was talking to a friend who apparently revealed another person willing to sell cards.
I didnt pursue this venture, but obviously its something admin should look into right? Well apparently he has other things to do.
Now, after I learned my cards had been "confiscated" a day or two later. I had put them in storage and wanted to put them in a good weapon.

Now, here is the conversation I had with the admin. Note, I did create the chatroom because I was upset really. I believe I had done nothing wrong. And I had done nothing wrong right?

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate013.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate014.jpg

And here is me talking to my friend. Then Im contacted by the person who traded me the cards after I told him I would not pay him. Apparently they are meaningless right? I laughed my donkey off and just kept going.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate015.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate016.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate017.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate018.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate019.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate020.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate021.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate022.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate023.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate024.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/comsat62/screenOne4ROMidRate025.jpg

So, what have we learned.
The person I got the cards from-
Not only owns the paypal account and has access to donations.
Is good friends with the admin.
-
Thats already 2 red flags.

Apparently because he tried to make an rule breaking deal and I jipped him for it, I am a "Scammer."
Please tell me how I scammed him out of an illegal deal?
Did I break any general RO rules?
Yes what I did was dickish, but as far as I know, I broke NO rules.

And to top it off, I apparently I am the ONLY one with screen shots or Any type of proof.

This means that the admin acted on the word of mouth of his friends and removed cards from another player because his friend made a stupid decision.
Yes the cards were "confiscated." But how do I know that? He probably returned them for all we know. He has no proof of anything happening other than what his friend said and the cards being in my storage.

Does this make me a rule breaking player? Or a rule following d***?
I choose the latter.
And does this count as corruption on the admin's part since his friend got a slap on the hand and the cards were unfairly removed from my storage?

Am I in the wrong or right?
I know what I did was mean, but I followed the rules to the best of my ability while acting like a d***.

[yC]

Well interesting.

1) Apparently, this guy actually owns the paypal account that people donate to.

-- This immediately make me think it's the admin/owner selling it.  Don't you feel the same?

2) What I had donated to before.  Thats how he knew I would be able to buy them.

-- Added more support to #1, he know you are a donator (with money that is) that's why you get contacted and not the rest of the random ppl around you.

If this whole story is true on your part, I'd believe it's the admin/owner selling rather than the "friend of the admin".  Since if you think about it, would you share your bank account with your friend? no right?  Why do you think the "admin" will share a PayPal account with anyone else.

Also worth noting is, he traded you the cards without you paying for them.  Shows he is confident you can't get away with the card without paying.  Must be someone with power doing it?

I can't move this straight to Hall of Shame because this is very one sided at the moment.  Out of all the ss you didn't take the ss for the trade window?  I also can't find the person naming an email address to where to send the money in the ss, so can't compare the email address with the donation address of the server.

Lastly, you are charged with "illegal real money trade".  You only get a warning?  You didn't get a ban?  worth wondering but can't go to their site to look up anything.  

Moving to Server Discussion since this is not a report on a violation of listing and barely a rant from the sound of it.

[Twin]

Well, thats curious. Prob slightly different from the story that I got from the admin. Yes, the admin did confide to me regarding this matter because I am the server adviser. I will be honest here and say that the admin didn't tell me that the friend of his had access to the donation paypal which I do agree should be something only the admin have access to. But even with that, you are still not in the right:

First, I will mention here that it has been told that any illegal action have to be reported to the admin AKA the GM, (Heck, we got a loading screen with a background saying that trading in-game item/zeny with real life money is not allowed) any failure to comply or attempt to take advantage of it will result in punishment. Your action was definitely an example of the second one.

Secondly, the buyer (AKA the person reporting this) didn't pay the item AKA the card meaning he didn't buy the item, legal or illegal means, it still means that he by any right is not entitled to keep the item in question and even if he does keep the item, it would have been theft rather than entitlement and will still be judged as guilty.

As for getting a warning rather than a ban, I've known the admin for quite a few years by now and if there is one thing I can tell about him is that he is quite lenient when it comes to punishments at least for the first time. Just because the offender got a warning and nothing else doesn't mean that he let it go, just that next time it happens, being banned would be the least of your worries.

[Yusifer]

In reply to Twin's comment, I'm sure the OP would have reported it had he not suspected the perpetrator to be part of the staff himself. It's called playing stupid as to let a truth slip.

It wouldn't be theft; the seller was committing an illegal action, the buyer took advantage of it to exploit a possible truth beneath it all, therefore handing over an item. The buyer didn't uphold his side of the deal, no, because of the matter of things at hand.

Think of a it as a drug deal (at least, in Canada). The seller is the one that goes to prison. The buyer gets a slap on the wrist, unless they have a prescription. In this case:

Seller = Person suspected of being a staff member, trading in-game stuff for money he was sure the buyer would spend

Buyer = Person posting this subject, and a "delver into the truth"

Prescription = A good reason to do it, in this case, trying to figure out how the seller knew he had the ability to purchase said items, and the fact the seller mentions having his PayPal info'

I don't find the OP to be in the wrong. I'd have done the same thing, as to exploit a potential fault or abuse within the staff. If attempting to find the truth by not illegal, but deceitful, means is against the rules, then so be it, if it betters the server in the end, and berids of yet another sorry excuse for a person, let alone a GM/admin.

(click to show/hide)

-is not affiliated with One4RO, its staff, or this topic's OP in any way-

[LeaLea]

I can see an email address on the 4th screenshot. Can't read it myself though, my eyesight is terrible.

In reply to Twin, thats not leniency, that's a little bit silly. It's pretty much saying you can get away with everything once.

I have to agree, I think it's a rather high up staff member/admin trying to sell the cards to you. Why would someone who was offering a RMT report you. And I agree that he shouldn't have been punished. If someone gave him the cards without taking a "payment" from the player, more fool him. That's like banning someone for picking something up someone accidently dropped.

[Twin]

Its one thing to try to delve into the truth as you say, its completely another to assume that he is entitled to the illegal item. Even with the example of drug traffic given by Yusifer, the buyer is still not entitled to the goods at hand for the very basic reason that the item is illegal to be in his posession at the first place. If he really wants to put the truth in the open, a simple no then go to the forum and report the guy would be more than enough, not pretending to accept the deal then put the blame. While I do agree the guy who tried to sell it was at fault, the buyer isn't right either, at least as far as his turn of action is concerned.

As far as the punishment goes, I do agree that they should have been banned, both parties are at fault: The seller for attempting to make the deal and the buyer for partaking in the illegal deal. But as far as the punishments are concerned, it was done by the discretion of the GM, they both got a warning and the item at hand are confiscated/deleted so neither have it right now, both parties got off lightly and could have let the matter go and get on with their life but instead it escalate like this which doesn't benefit anyone other than making both parties look silly and destroying the server name along with the innocent players in it.

[adhelle]

But wait, if the suposed seller paypal was the same as the paypal people donate to, doesnt that make him the server owner or admin or the donation handling guy? So doesn't it mean the staff was selling mvp cards for real money behind the curtains? Isn't this what the OP is reporting? I don't know why you are ignoring that. Or perhaps I misundertood something.

[hyoukikyo]

Now this is where it gets REALLY INTERESTING.
Apparently, this guy actually owns the paypal account that people donate to. What I had donated to before. Thats how he knew I would be able to buy them. Clever git.
He naively went off on this thing about trust. Being the devious bastard I am, I played along. This guy honestly expected me to buy these items and break the rules. He actually did hand me the phree card and I handed it back, playing along. This guy was hooked thinking I was going to buy.

Here are some more pictures of the convo.
I "agreed" to "pay" for Phreeoni and Maya Purple

Yes. He owns the account. Not the admin but the paypal and they are friends.
Yes. He was naive to do and trust such a devil like you.
He did an illegal thing of selling currency and you did an illegal thing by conversing into it instead of Reporting to Admin.



Now, here is the conversation I had with the admin. Note, I did create the chatroom because I was upset really. I believe I had done nothing wrong. And I had done nothing wrong right?

You were upset about what? Losing something you got illegally?
Done nothing wrong?
You never even reported about it?
And you even mention of wanting to put it in a weapon?
What does that mean?
It means you Never intended to do anything about it.
What is most disgusting about it
Is that you are a donor yet you take up illegal acts.
Pathetic.



Apparently because he tried to make an rule breaking deal and I jipped him for it, I am a "Scammer."
Please tell me how I scammed him out of an illegal deal?
Did I break any general RO rules?
Yes what I did was dickish, but as far as I know, I broke NO rules.

No
You are not a scammer.
That is out of the context.
You are a lying and scheming bastard though.

Yes.
You broke a general RO rule.
Taking part of illegal dealings.
Without any intention to do something about it.
That is the rule you broke.


As for the Paypal Owner account.
He was an idiot.
As for the GM.
He is another Idiot.
All three of you are.

However
there is no reason to put a Flag on the paypal account owner and the GM being friends.
That has nothing to do.
The whole deal was completely the action of the paypal owner account.
The GM had nothing to do it and never knew it.

In Fact.
If the deal actually happened.
the GM would Never know.
Because the Paypal account owner was like you. A lying scheming bastard.

What should happen?
Reprimand and ban the paypal account owner from playing to avoid doing Stupid things.
Ban the supposed "Buyer" for conversing in illegal deals instead of Reporting.
Give the GM a chance to fix this because he only knew of it after the whole thing already happened.
And after that.
Smack him in the head for all he is worth.

[Vanidel]

1.  I would have reported it to the admin had it been anyone else.
But I immediately suspected something was amiss when they both used the SAME paypal account.

2. I actually was willing to report him had he lied to the admin about me "Stealing." I would have posted all the evidence on the forums.

3. The admin went completely off the word of mouth of one of his "Friends."

4. Yes I am a devil, especially in RO to people who dont use common sense.

5. I love how you say I took part in illegal dealings Hyou. Words are can mean alot. But it was never a "deal." All I did was talk to the guy and ended up getting free cards. I was never going to send real money.

=/

And yes I donated because I liked the server. But the donations are imbalanced as hell. But thats another story.

Now here is the real question?

Should I get my cards back?
Since they were taken back on the words of one his friends and no other evidence at all?

[N2O]

Hello this is Snickers, Admin of One4RO.

I just want to confim and clear things up here, not to defend anyone.

First of all, yes I've been using his Paypal account to receive donations from players, reason would be because I don't have a Paypal account of my own as Paypal is rarely (close to never) used to where I come from, and you can see from one of the screenshots provided there that "my friend" says that I am using his account because I didn't have one.

I wasn't planning on doing this for a long-term, since I knew having an account of my own would be better than constantly using someone else's.
(Yes, I was stupid for using someone else's account but I actually trusted this guy, and he also trusted me with his personal account. His money is in there too.)

(Additional information : As soon as I was aware of this situation, all donations in his Paypal account had been transfered to a newly created Paypal account, one belong to me but is not connected to any credit card or bank account, yet.)

As for the issue, I want to clear that I was not part of this deal with My only connection to this deal was the Paypal account. I wasn't aware of this situation until someone told me about it which by time, this guy already got the cards and canceled the deal.

As this is a serious issue, I acted immediately and confiscated the cards because as far as legality of the items, the cards we're obtained thru an illegal means.

As for punishments, this is the first issue of this kind to happen in this and I wanted this to finish up without much fuzz and decided to gave both of them a warning. Regarding the items, the card in question is not in any case rightfully belong to either party, it will not be given to the buyer as it was obtained through illegal means nor to my friend as part of his punishment but instead to be deleted. (I cannot give proofs of that I did not return the cards to him, all I can give you is my word that I did not. I don't even know how to prove this. If you have any idea how to proof it, tell me.)

Even if you didn't do your end of the bargain, it's still an illegal deal. Thats a fact and by all right is punishable.

I have already taken action to fix this matter peacefully and the only thing missing is a whooping for my friend which won't be given for a while since we are miles away.

Another side note : My friend didn't receive anything for letting me use his Paypal account. Again I cannot give proofs about this, all I can give is my word.)

[Vanidel]

"I wasn't aware of this situation until someone told me about it which by time, this guy already got the cards and canceled the deal."


Wait wait wait wait.
Lemme get this straight.
You removed cards from another player.

With NO EVIDENCE AT ALL? EXCEPT FOR WORD OF MOUTH?

[Mushu]

Admin probably checked the logs (common sense), he saw that 1 MP and 1 Phree card were spawned, given to you, he deleted them. He should have removed the staff member, because that guy is a sleezy douche, if he isn't going to or hasn't yet, that server isn't worth playing at all. Damage has been un-done. End of story, not hall of shame material imo.

[Illapse]

"So basically, you accepted an illegal deal and did scam."

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahadfgklwgei3tw.

Flawless Admin logic just because he was asked for evidence.

[LeaLea]

If the items were obtained illegally then you have a problem within your staff. (And yes they should have been removed)

The fact that you didn't make your own paypal from the off with throw a lot of red flags for people as well. Bad decision on your part.

[Yusifer]

I'm still not convinced the OP did anything wrong. Was he given the chance to report the situation to a higher up? Or was he removed on the spot, along with the "items", without given the time to lay his case out, to explain he did what he did just to see how corrupt this supposed staff member was?

If his intentions were to seek the truth and exploit it, thereafter agreeing to the removal of such items (Phreeoni, MP), then he shouldn't be punished.

If he was exploiting this guy just to keep the stuff (which would be stupid, since if the guy IS a staff member, the OP would have known that scheme wouldn't work), then he is at fault.

I'm thinking the former was his intentions, and I don't think his actions were illegal. I've seen people praised for finding such corruption on other servers. I don't see why it would lead to punishment on this one.

The only issue I have is this:

"Should I get my cards back?"

In all sincerity, the cards were a result of the enquete, and shouldn't be given back as they are evidence of corruption, and not a "reward" for exploitation.