NostalgiaRO - Future Non-Transcendent Server "In The Works"

[-sao`]

I've been looking for a good non-transcendent server for a long time now, just like RO was played back before the transcendent class update came out. I know I'm not alone in looking for a server like this as I know a lot of other people loved WoE/PvP before Transcendent class arrived. There was a lot more teamwork involved and it wasn't just one man taking a castle in 4 seconds or you have to deal the most damage quickly or one shot kill your opponent to win. I believe pre-trans RO involved a lot more skill and encouraged teamwork and partying. I have tried so many other non-trans servers such as retRO, aeRO Sakamesh, ObstacleRO and ebilRO Old Skool server but they all either closed down or wasn't exactly what I was looking for. That is why I decided, since I can't find one, I'll just make one myself. But this is where you, the players come in. Help me decided on a few things:

Rates - I was thinking 10/10/10/1 so it isn't painfully hard to level or find equipments. I don't want it any higher than these rates. I'd like to keep it kinda on the low side. Boss drops will be 1x.

Customs/Donations - No donation items or custom items at all. This is what turns me off about every server, seeing those retarded wings and helms. The only donation service I would probably do would be Guild leader change/Sex change/Character name change, etc.

NPCs - The basics: Warper (Dungeon Entrance), Healer, Bank, PvP, Rental, Stylist. The only thing I have in mind is that I would like to change the reset NPC. I will probably make it from level 1-95 reset with a fee and then you cant reset after that or you have to do a quest to reset for level 95+

War of Emperium - I will probably open this a few weeks after the server is opened to let people collect gears, form guilds and let the player base grow. Either once or twice a week. I'll start it off with 2 castles. I don't know if the guild skills such as Urgent Call and the others came after or before the transcendent patch, so I'd have to read about that to see if I have to disable those skills.

Version - This is where I need feedback the most. I don't know if I should either A) Just disable transcendent and extended class and still have all the new maps/monsters/items/towns/updates or B) Totally wipe out EVERY single thing that came from updates after the iRO Transcendent patch such as Homonculus/Lighthalzen/Rachel/Einbroch/Veins/Dungeons/Equips/Items ect. It would be a lot of work but I would be willing to do it. I'm leaning more towards option B as I really loved the play of old school RO.

I would really like to keep it close to the iRO patch release and updates as possible. If anyone has any information as to when patches and updates came out and what they did I would be very grateful as the information on the iRO site is VERY brief. Thats all I'm wondering for now. Feel free to leave your opinion or your thoughts. I'll take everyones opinion into consideration. I will be working on the server in the meantime and will try to setup a site/forums. It might take a while for me get everything done and set, but
I am extremely willing to open this server for all the old school lover RO players out there. This is for you guys~

[Skotlex]

You should most likely remove the new equipment that came after advanced classes. Remember that not only transcend classes are much stronger than their normal versions, they started adding equipment which matches such power (many of which are transcendental only). Interestingly enough,new monsters kept getting stronger too, to match the stronger players.

I do not think it would be a bad idea to leave in all the newer spawns... can players ever complain about monsters being too difficult? For that same token, you could leave in the skills for the monsters. But then again... Earthquake is supposed to do like over 50k damage, so players would likely get frustrated from instant dying. maybe it's just better to really rollback everything to pre-rebirth.

I think from a player's point of view it WOULD be nice if they could visit the newer dungeons and fight the newer mobs, but all the newer skills probably need to be removed since they are so overpowered (even more so if players cannot be trans), plus something like this will not affect the nostalgia at all.. for classic RO you just have to stick to the classic maps and not visit the newer ones.

[-sao`]

Thanks for your input Skotlex. Yeah, I think I am going to totally remove all the new dungeons, towns, equipments and skills that came after the transcendent patch. I'm working on it right now, and its not too hard, it just takes time. Maybe later on I can open up the new dungeons so players can try it out with no transcedent classes and see how challenging it is. Of course, I would remove the drops from the monsters.

Any other ideas?

[Johnny Dangerously]

New spawns vs old spawns is an interesting question.  As someone who's toyed around with this idea before (and even inspired a few people to attempt a server like this) I would say that it's mainly just up to personal choice.  As long as monsters that did not exist before rebirth do not drop cards(or gear) that did not exist before rebirth you wont have any unbalancing factors that make it into PvP/WoE.  Some could argue however that the spawn changes around amatsu really f*** over a lot of classes (swordsman, merchant) and really buffed the hell out of other classes (archer) and I would probably agree.  I would say go back to the old spawns but I'm a purist and it's been so terribly long since I've mobbed poison spores in geffen 1.

Obviously the new gear needs to go, but not just the berets and wolfheidens, mainly you want to get rid of ice pick.  I do not have to justify this I hope.

And to crosspost from the Empire RO forums (which are dead as far as I can tell so dont get excited)...

2) Cards.....are a bad idea in general.  Remember the 'ripping off mechanics designed to rip us off' line?  Cards do pretty much exactly that, and the worst part is that WoE is so bland without them.  We can't outright remove cards but we can't overlook the fact that they are both essential and very hard to get without pulling your hair out (especially thara frog).  The card problem is not as big on larger servers because there are bots, we cannot expect a huge bot influx here to drive prices down and create an economy (and we wouldn't want that anyway I don't think).  This is a tricky problem, and back when I was actively thinking about solutions to it the only things I could come up with are:

a) Using iRO Snipah or any of the official price tracking websites to copy prices on specific items (probably WoE gear as that tends to suffer the most from this) and then having NPCs sell the items for that price, of course updating the price monthly as we go along.  This gives us all the benefits of a bot driven economy without all of the problems. 

b) Have NPCs sell special armor that just happens to have the same properties as certain cards, but is perhaps a little bit weaker and obviously is fairly expensive.  We don't have to sell a silk robe that happens to make you immune to freeze, but we could sell a "Water Robe" that makes you immune to freeze but has no magic defense, and maybe also increases the damage you take from fire spells by 5% or something.

Basically what I'm trying to suggest here is that we make it so that people can show up, level a character for a little bit, and then be able to compete in WoE without having to obsessively grind out all of their cards.  This way all they need is 200k for a water robe, 300k for a gimped cranial, etc etc and they can still compete in the war of emperium.  Their equipment certainly wont be as good as someone who actually HAS cards, but at least they wont run into a castle and die in seconds because they're wearing +0 npc gear.  We could also give out this equipment as part of some kind of job quest, perhaps you get your set of almost-WoE-gear when you job change from swordsman to knight or something.  It needs discussion and I would certainly understand (and still play here) if nothing was changed, but cards and card grinding/botting are definitely a problem. 

I also think that making psuedo-WoE Gear available to the casual player would make more people casually play here.  This means we could theoretically pull traffic from other servers just for WoE (which will be more balanced and hopefully more fun here), and this is great because they are contributing to the fun WoE (which is our selling point) without being on all the time and using up server bandwith.  We just have to make sure to provide incentives for people who DO actually enjoy grinding things so that someone can play here seriously if they want.  We want to cater to both crowds, and obviously give an advantage to the hardcore without alienating the casual.

The server itself was inspired by a huge rant I posted at the ViciousRO forums which you can find the OP here and the followup (I didn't have time to reply to the OP before the thread was closed) here.  Read the first post of the first link and if you have time, the entirety of the second link.  Also ignore the last paragraph of the OP, I was very tired and decided to shoehorn some kind of community action speech onto the end of it which didn't work very well as you can see.

[-sao`]

Yeah, I have removed all the new cards and equipments already, as well as removed all new monsters and dungeons. I have also taken the new monsters off of Dead Branch and Bloody Branch spawns and the new cards and items out of OBB/OPB and OCAs. Also removed all new quests/NPCs/God item seal quests.

I would revert the maps back to old spawns if I knew exactly what monsters were where and at what map at the time before all the new updates. Its hard to find out past information as very little exists now and I couldn't find a whole lot of information on RO before trans patch after hours of searching.

Also, when did those lvl 4 weapons/weapon quests get implemented? If they came before then most likely they will be staying, overpowered or not. Even if Ice Pick stays, the only way to get it besides seal quest is by killing Lord of Death and it drops at like .10% chance on 10x drop rate. (I'll probably reduce drop rates of boss monsters to 5x anyways or even 1x so no biggie)

And no to the buying gears, I'd like to keep it close to official. Plus, it wouldn't be hard to hunt gears with 10x drop rates anyways -.-

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it. Back to work~

[Johnny Dangerously]

Lord of Death did not originally drop ice pick at a 0.01% (1x) chance also, originally he had no such drop and just had a bunch of crap.  He also came in with the Niffelheim patch which means if you are using old spawns he technically shouldn't even exist.

As far as 'close to official as possible goes', remember that every official server has a very large bot-driven economy and that this is something you are striving to keep out of your server.  On official servers you WILL be able to buy gear on the market, on your server (which isn't going to be very popular) you will probably see thara frog cards vending for 20m or more, depending on drop rates, which is most certainly not very official.

Not only does this create a drastic imbalance between have/have not (IE: the game is balanced around everyone having everything minus a few boss cards) characters but it's also just plain f*** boring to hunt cards.  I would ask you to reconsider some kind of easier alternative to thara/marc/hydra cards at the very least (no need to make immunes easy to get) but I find that most people are very very set in their YOU MUST GRIND CARDS TO PLAY mindset.  Oh well. 

I'm going to assume you have played on low rates before.  Everyone acknowledges the fact that card grinding is a big issue with people.  Why be like everyone else?  You're already trying to be different by removing rebirth, why not go a step further and remove the mandatory 3 weeks of intensely boring thara/marc/hydra/raydric killing required to play?  I am just going to end this post by quoting part of another one my posts that you probably didn't read considering this particular post is over 20 paragraphs long.

In my opinion Rebirth(and cards, same logic) was designed to prolong playtime, playtime which on official servers costs money. Before rebirth it took people on iRO about 8 months to hit 99 and gear up for WoE, at which point they usually join an alliance and participate in WoE for about 5 to 6 months until their alliance is defeated and a lot of them unsubscribe. Now, with rebirth and all of this new equipment, it takes even longer to gear up, longer to get to 90+ rebirth, and the end result of this is that you end up paying more money to play for longer. Private servers are free, we do not need this. We should instead be focused on providing a fun, balanced game instead of ripping off mechanics designed to rip us off.

Providing an incentive to card grinding without absolutely requiring it is taking one step further away from 'ripping off mechanics designed to rip us off'.

[Skotlex]

As I read in another thread... an easy solution to the card grinding is:
- enable npcs that sell the MUST-HAVE cards for woe, using the prices that the current iRO (or kRO) markets have (you could adjust the price based on the drop rate difference, if you want). This would simulate the experience of the real servers, without requiring a bot-driven economy to exist :V

[-sao`]

Nifflheim came before the transcendent patch. He does exist. All I need to know is if Ice Pick came before the trans patch or not.

As for selling equipments, that sounds like custom retarded crap to me. If you want gears then you have a work twords it. In the time you make the money to buy the cards/equipments anyways, you could have already hunted the card. It just makes no sense to me to be selling cards and equipments through NPCs. .10% drop rate on cards is not low at all. A GRIND to get cards? Hardly. Yes, I have played on low rate servers and to be honest, it doesn't take long at all. Plus, most cards you need for WoE/PvP are easy to kill monsters. Most characters can easily kill them so its not even a struggle to get them. Boring? Maybe, but its just something that has to be done if you want to WoE/PvP. Not everything can be fun. Although, many people find it find to hunt/level, I guess you don't.

Imbalance? A person who spends more time collecting supplies/gears for WoE technically deserves to be better in WoE/PvP than someone who doesn't. They WORKED (not really as you just click) twords it. The thing is, I didn't agree with this for Transcendent class as I remember on iRO it was so much more team based than Hey Look At Me I Can One Shot You Because I Have Retarded Skills. Of course Monks had Asura Strike but there was something called Hide. Sure, they had Ruwach but sometimes you just have to admit defeat. Plus, all their SP is drained anyways and a full spirit Monk is easy to take down anyways with their s*** VIT.

Bot driven economy? Uhh, no? Its 10x drops it is ridiculously easy to get things, no joke. Ask everyone who plays other 10x rates servers. Its very hard to have an "economy" on a private server anyways, it just doesn't work. Of course, botting would not be allowed and thus they would be banned. Sure a few might sneak by when no one is online and they might get a few cards but hey, nothing can be perfect can it. Just ban and move on.

Sure, on official servers you are able to buy gear. Thats just the way it is, because there are bots (that the GMs give less than s*** about since most are paying customers) and players that have found the items. If you think about it thats how people make money too. On a server I played in the past, friends and I hunted equipments and cards to make money. Plus, have you ever heard of haggling? You can always cut a deal with another person if you don't want to buy their 20m Thara Frog Card when there are 10 people on the server. Really, it works. And if they don't agree, make money to buy it, just like you suggested, or even hunt it (lulz).

I want the server to be close to official, not exactly be it.

on your server (which isn't going to be very popular)

I'm sure there are servers that sell equipments, like how you suggested. I suggest you play on those? (They aren't that popular)

Thanks for the suggestion, anyways. Server is coming along great.

[Skotlex]

I see you love grinding :B

And no, I never liked grinding. If you think about it, it seems like an elitist requirement that you must spend a long time collecting certain gear if you even want to think about participating in woe. I personally have never been interested in woe so I should not care about these things at all, but I thought I would pass along the opinion and suggestions I have heard elsewhere in these forums.

I do think the guys who suggested the NPC shop have a point... does everyone hunts for their own gears/cards in official servers? No, that is what there is an economy for. But... it will be your server, so you make the calls on what to do or not.

I do think there is a fair amount of players that would enjoy a no-trans server, if anything, if the server is well publicized, you'll end with whatever RO veterans still exist out there (sadly, the vast majority of remaining players seem to care only about big population and high rates :x )

[-sao`]

Yeah Skotlex, its sad that a majority of people only look for high rates and high population although I just want to make a server for the people who absolutely hated the way transcendents changed the game. If this server ends up being big or not, I'll stick by it. Just like you have with MouRO  (I personally like the way you customized the game to your liking and made it almost a totally new experience, props)

does everyone hunts for their own gears/cards in official servers?

Nope, but this isn't an official server. 

I see you love grinding :B

Only when it has to be done. I mean, on 10x rates server you can get a ranged or magic character to 99 in a day. Just divide those hours you spend grinding in one day to a week if your a casual player and, viola! 99/50 character in no time. Hardly a grind at all. Although, melee characters might take a bit more time.

[pfja1st]

i feel almost every little word you say guys. i am not an elite or a pro in playing RO, may it be official or PS's. i really hated the fact that you are so required by the game or even by yourself alone to hunt down almost everything you want in a very long boring mode of playtime. i know that this is a MMORPG, though RO seems not too much revolving in the fact that you must play it in a one two three sequence(that's why i loved RO). when everyone have something to be proud of, like having great gears and cards---other people will definitely and likely will have a feeling of superiority complex and they would try to do the same or just quit anyways. your server seems so very promising. i would like you to hear my voice out here... i played pRO... i started playing in episode 4 till 6, it was then a lot of fun... but when i heard that there was a rebirth classes to come up soon, well i said damn this will be exciting. well, it turned me off---cuz rebirth just technically makes a replay of your time... i know it is an upgrade but it just doesn't seem right for me to replay or even prolong such time and effort even money to be spent all-over-again-and-again! now we are gonna expect 3rd class sooner or later, and now i'm saying damn once more! (^_^)

[Ashe]

I think it's a great idea, other than the rates. It's possible to level a character to 99 on a 10x within a few hours, although it's not easy, I still believe the job and base exp should be lowered. I think 3x/3x/~x would work well. I'd like to see a decent drop rate though, solely for the fact that hunting gets boring after awhile, but I'm all for it.  A person who kills Golden Thief Bug a few hundred times to get the card deserves it, and should be proud to have gotten it.

As for the dungeons, they should be left alone, other than some of the drops. RO gets boring without updates, and some of the newer dungeons are really really fun.

I'm all for No-Trans Server, I think that's how RO was meant to be played. Teamwork, more partying, less soloing, no healer or warper,

About 6 of my friends and myself are looking for a 1-3x server Non Trans.

Good luck, I'll be keeping my eye on this thread.