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Offline diconfrost13

Hi there :D
« on: Jan 15, 2013, 01:25 PM »
There's an idea that came up earlier that after my High-Rate Server to be stabled, a new 2nd server will be released. It's a mid-rate server. Any up for this? :D i mean any idea-giver here or adviser to help me have good ideas for a perfect mid-rate server?

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Offline Woon

Re: Hi there :D
« Reply #1 on: Jan 15, 2013, 03:45 PM »
The more the merrier I always say!

But please answer the following questions first:
What do you define as stable?
Is your current server stable by your definition?
What do others define as stable?
Is your current server stable by their definition?

next

How many mid rate servers are there?
What are the top 10 most populated mid rates servers?
How long have they been around?
Can you compete with them on a reasonable level?
What qualities does your server offer that those top 10 do not already offer?

It seems you have already taken the initiative to open up a mid rate and this is a shameless self promotion topic. Also I took it upon my self to check out the current status of your server / website / social media. You asked for an adviser and I will give you some advice.

Do not open up another server, by my definition your current one is not stable yet. Put all your efforts into it and plan a long term plan of opening up yet another server.

Offline yC

Re: Hi there :D
« Reply #2 on: Jan 16, 2013, 02:13 AM »
lol Woon so serious about this.  Which is good.  I mean, we definitely don't want any 2 weeks to 1 month old servers to keep popping on and off.

Okay, you said there's an idea that came up [...].  Let's just ask is the idea is just "create a mid rate server" or something like "create a mid rate server because there is a demand for xxx features".  Woon asked something that is really worth to think about before every server opens. 

As for idea to the mid-rate specific, let's start with asking what is it in a mid-rate that you can't do in your current high-rate?  Or can't offer in the high-rate but will be fine in the mid-rate.  At least that might give some difference favor between the two servers.

Offline Cawliflower

Re: Hi there :D
« Reply #3 on: Jan 16, 2013, 03:01 AM »
Lol... this thread's responses.

A lot of your preliminary questions regarding opening a server should revolve around the following:
  • Skill-set of yourself & potential/current project staff. As the owner, I would suggest having a decent understanding of required skills to run a server. Too many Admins out there that hide behind smoke and mirrors with no sense of leadership, organization, or understanding of how to run a community.
  • Define expectations and goals for the project.
  • Based on expectations and promotional marketing of said project prior to release, you'll want to devise a reasonable budget.
  • Market the server goals achieved in mind. Too much of that "I WAN BE LARGEST SRVR EVAR" isn't enough and what reason(s) should the players have to play YOUR server?
  • You're opening a second server? Don't. You will ruin your community. Here's what most Administrators (I'll refuse to name a few servers) mistakenly decide to do: Open a _______ (insert low/mid/high) rate server that will be under the same name as current _______ (insert low/mid/high). I'm sorry to be blunt but it is completely incompetent and without a doubt will SPLIT your current population between both servers. Additionally, maintaining more than one server without a solid support system is increasingly difficult. Lastly, branding both servers and defining individuality is also another project. Typically you'll see people open a second server that mimics the other. I find it lulzworthy when the scripts and features mimic the other rates of the server.
  • DON'T cross-advertise.
  • If you proceed with opening a server, don't be the biggest idiot on the face of the planet and tell the community before it's released. In fact, read below...
  • Open the server under completely different aliases--even staff aliases. This is the best option!
  • Is this biased feedback? Lol... LuminaRO and many, many other servers have tried to do the whole "second server" nonsense. It's unfair to the community, and has the potential to ruin both server communities. Lumina split the population of around (800 I believe?) to like 250~350 on the HR and the rest on the MR (at the peak of the servers). There also was a large resistance for it and the staff failed to listen. Believe me, I was the Co-Admin on lRO (there's a HoS thread on that).
  • Out of all the current, and popular server owners I've got many years above them in terms of owning and managing servers with a strong development skill-set to back. Despite my reputation, I've got proven experience with up-starts and management of servers. However, I've made a s*** of mistakes but I have yet to attempt to open a second server under the same name. That's just illogical.
  • Don't use deceit to drive the server whether or not it deems successful. Don't fake player counts. Don't hide online listings from your main webpage. All servers have auto-traders. Why hide it? Generally, servers with 75% bots and auto-traders will hide the online listing. I find periodically cycling merchants out to be very genuine and in my best interests. No sense is making a falsified sense of a community.

Regardless of the rate and competition, decide what kind of server you want to open based on your interests and demand. In all honesty, I didn't open DivinityRO even giving two s*** about competition, etc. To this day, I very rarely look into the competition because my server stands out in its own light, glory, and uniqueness. With consistency, commitment, originality, thorough planning, and motivation, you'll be equipped with the bare basics that will drive a server into the RO community. I've overcome a horrible reputation, major server attacks, horrible staff turnover, closing of the server for two weeks, and each time we've suffered it is my motivation that has turned it around. At the end of the day, open your server with the drive to perfect the server's features, staff, and community as well as goals and vision.

There's probably much more I could list, and people on this board that may disagree with my opinions. Regardless, this is a very brief list of things. Take it for what it is worth and feel free to respond if you have questions.
Quote
yesterday im ask gm crewkie hitler for pls ad balance costum like angel wing or 4slot narutaro BUT HE SAY NO.. um sry i thot this was ranganarok and not a nazis???????

DivinityRO 6.9 coming soon!

Offline Bue

Re: Hi there :D
« Reply #4 on: Jan 16, 2013, 06:32 PM »
Regardless of the post above, if you want to open and maintain a server, then all you need is just time and effort.

Offline Cawliflower

Re: Hi there :D
« Reply #5 on: Jan 16, 2013, 07:09 PM »
Regardless of the post above, if you want to open and maintain a server, then all you need is just time and effort.
And that's why we see a new server open and another server close daily. /heh
Quote
yesterday im ask gm crewkie hitler for pls ad balance costum like angel wing or 4slot narutaro BUT HE SAY NO.. um sry i thot this was ranganarok and not a nazis???????

DivinityRO 6.9 coming soon!

Offline yC

Re: Hi there :D
« Reply #6 on: Jan 17, 2013, 02:52 AM »
Yea I am about to brought up the big server second server as an example of why not to open a second server if you love your current one.  Cawliflower sums it up somewhat.

I think the misunderstanding is when you open a second server you expect population growth to both servers as more favor will attractive more people.  But most of the time you will see the downside before you see the upside.   First, when you started you don't expect a population split (result in less competitive in the main server) but it could happens.  Not a 50/50 but even 20% moved to the new server means 20% loss of population to the main server.  It's a risk there. 
Or the second server splits the human and server resources from your main server but barely anyone on it making it wasteful and the resource could have been allocated for better use. 

Offline Playtester

Re: Hi there :D
« Reply #7 on: Jan 17, 2013, 04:27 AM »
If there's anything RO needs then it's less servers (but better variety in the high quality ones) and not more. =p

Offline Cawliflower

Re: Hi there :D
« Reply #8 on: Jan 17, 2013, 05:14 AM »
Yea I am about to brought up the big server second server as an example of why not to open a second server if you love your current one.  Cawliflower sums it up somewhat.

I think the misunderstanding is when you open a second server you expect population growth to both servers as more favor will attractive more people.  But most of the time you will see the downside before you see the upside.   First, when you started you don't expect a population split (result in less competitive in the main server) but it could happens.  Not a 50/50 but even 20% moved to the new server means 20% loss of population to the main server.  It's a risk there. 
Or the second server splits the human and server resources from your main server but barely anyone on it making it wasteful and the resource could have been allocated for better use.
Agreed.

People don't realize it. I think a lot of owners open second servers under the same name to make a quick dollar.
Quote
yesterday im ask gm crewkie hitler for pls ad balance costum like angel wing or 4slot narutaro BUT HE SAY NO.. um sry i thot this was ranganarok and not a nazis???????

DivinityRO 6.9 coming soon!

Offline Triper

Re: Hi there :D
« Reply #9 on: Jan 17, 2013, 04:32 PM »
Before all this, think first and answer yourself the following two questions:

Why do I need it?
What can I do with it?

If you can't answer clearly, at 100%, in a positive way without something biased to obvious then you don't really need it imo

Offline DeuxeVonL

Re: Hi there :D
« Reply #10 on: Jan 17, 2013, 05:40 PM »
If there's anything RO needs then it's less servers (but better variety in the high quality ones) and not more. =p

This.

There's a lot of good concepts floating around servers. Just many fail to execute, and sustain.

Offline Bue

Re: Hi there :D
« Reply #11 on: Jan 18, 2013, 12:35 PM »
Yea I am about to brought up the big server second server as an example of why not to open a second server if you love your current one.  Cawliflower sums it up somewhat.
And that's why we see a new server open and another server close daily. /heh

I think you guys are missing the main point. As far as I know, a majority of the servers don't have a dedicated development team, mostly one guy is behind the scenes doing all of the following:

1. Web development; updating the control panel & forums, handling backups & security, writing announcements & change-logs, photoshop / GIMP graphics, and maintain current website coding. (HTML, CSS, MySQL, PHP, and JavaScript [Optional].)
 * Maintaining the control panel can be difficult, since security can be compromise by design or exploit in the language itself, especially if you happen to piss someone off with the time and knowledge.
 * Maintaining an updated system, might require some time to adjust the changes of any of the technologies.

2. Client development; understand the file structure of the data folder, update & maintain & optimize data folder,  understand lua & hex to customize client, and handling customization files. This including packaging the data files, testing it on the client, and developing the patch.
 * For example, adding custom palettes require understanding how to work with the color table or whatever, modifying the file afterwards, and testing to see how the client interprets the damn thing. (tl;dr: heavy workload)

3. Server development; developing & scripting NPCs (may require working with  MySQL and client; i.e. quest desc or using query), understand eA / rA's data structures, libraries, development, and faults, maintaining the database and configuration files, and so much more.
 * For example, say you want to add 500 pets that gives bonus according to the original monster's stat; then you'll need to program something to read the mob database, pet database, and the bonuses scripting, then write something to generate a new pet_db according to supported bonuses and mob_db.

4. Everything else.

Therefore, if you open two servers, then you'll have to do the above TWICE for both servers; not enough time for everything, especially for someone who wants to do it correctly or when the stakes are already high.

« Last Edit: Jan 18, 2013, 02:52 PM by Bue »

Offline Woon

Re: Hi there :D
« Reply #12 on: Jan 18, 2013, 02:07 PM »
A lot of great points were brought up. As cookie said I am not afraid of mid rate competition. I think we are just fine and new mid rates would probably benefit my server if they were done right.

What I am afraid and have been for a long time, is crappy servers opening up that drive players away from RO. Unfortunately when starting up, for a long time WoonRO was one of those crappy servers. We now have players coming back after 9 - 13 months and commenting on how they quit not just our server but RO as a whole. Fortunately we stuck around and redeemed our selves, but many of these new servers suck and die. They also take a lot of players with them, and never take the time to redeem or apologize.

/angry rant

On a lighter note, new servers are fine and welcomed and I will gladly give what ever advice I have, if the person / group is serious and seems they have a clue.

Offline Bue

Re: Hi there :D
« Reply #13 on: Jan 18, 2013, 02:47 PM »
Of course, one of the hardest part about opening a server is establishing a position.

Particularly, my advice to people who are very skilled and talented in computer science is to contribute to the main project, eA or rA. Then you'll be able to get a reputation within the developing community and perhaps get some serious questions answered when needed. 2 cents.

Also, it is a very good idea to not show off; you're practically inviting bored hackers to mess with you.

Offline diconfrost13

Re: Hi there :D
« Reply #14 on: Jan 19, 2013, 01:13 AM »
Well i appreciate your concern woon, but i'm just collecting ideas as of now :D and i want to make a midrate server a year before launching  /ok yes, a year before launching. I'm planning to release this midrate server on 2014. Well as you know, finding bugs and balancing the server will not take only a month or two and i have this first server i have to maintain so this midrate will be next year. Well i've seen some ideas here and looks good :D Thank you guys :)