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Offline Robert

Game balance
« on: Jan 06, 2017, 02:19 AM »
Hey, wanted to get some thoughts and opinions on general balance in a game server. Most of the servers I've played on have had some kind of nerf to magic for instance. Changing the forumula for calcualating magic attack, changing after cast delay and cast time for instance.

My favorite class is Star Glad and another example would be that most servers tend to disable FSK during woe. One even had a 3 second hard delay on any use of skills after using FSK, which was pretty brutal.

But at any of the higher max level servers it seems like game mechanics change a bit.

Edit: In hindsight I might have put this in the wrong section.
« Last Edit: Jan 06, 2017, 02:34 AM by Robert »

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Offline GM Brook

Re: Game balance
« Reply #1 on: Feb 04, 2017, 08:43 PM »
If you're looking to find a balance server you might want to look at lowrates because lowrate servers with pre-renewal mechanics has the most official settings which means not much modification.

Offline Whitestriker

Re: Game balance
« Reply #2 on: Feb 09, 2017, 07:08 AM »
i think a mathematical balance are perfect but some skills can't be evaluated at this way, so it have a strategic value that should be balanced with dynamic simulation.

sample of mathematicaly balanceable (fight) skills:

bash
pierce
firebolt
blitzbeat
parryng
reflect shield

sample of mathematicaly unbalanceable (strategic) skills:
snap/body relocation
traps
quagmire
dispell
meltdown

that way are applicable to items too;
stats bonus
status defence/offence
autospells
extra skills
power ups
etc

Offline rootKid

Re: Game balance
« Reply #3 on: Feb 09, 2017, 05:53 PM »
balance is like justice. it cannot truly be attained. not a single ro server out there is balanced, not even officials.
jus do wat u think is right.
My YouTube Channel
My Discord Channel



Fight the bureaucratization of our Ragnarok Online community hubs! An overabundance of nitpicking-rules & regulations are counter-intuitive to community progress, discussion, creativity. and most importantly, enjoyment.

Offline Zinnia

Re: Game balance
« Reply #4 on: Feb 09, 2017, 06:57 PM »
If you're looking to find a balance server you might want to look at lowrates because lowrate servers with pre-renewal mechanics has the most official settings which means not much modification.

Servers without any customisation are probably the most unbalanced. RO initial design is flawed, iRO is highly customised compared to kRO to adapt the game to its very particular market. Simple example could be the game economy. Once you start increasing the rates a little you already screw the whole map balancing and you expose your server to massive inflation once it's a month old.

On Rise of Midgard we customised the game where we thought it was right to make it viable long term, just doing minimum customisation, adding in QoL, but we'll never touch skills for example because it'd be changing the core balance of the game.

Offline Blinzer

Re: Game balance
« Reply #5 on: Feb 12, 2017, 04:42 PM »
balance is like justice. it cannot truly be attained. not a single ro server out there is balanced, not even officials.
jus do wat u think is right.

please don't lie to the impressionable audience, balance is not obtainable for a person like you who hasn't done the correct steps to see what it looks like

don't impose your limitations upon other people as if they were fact

Offline Yuzo

Re: Game balance
« Reply #6 on: Feb 13, 2017, 06:03 AM »
please don't lie to the impressionable audience, balance is not obtainable for a person like you who hasn't done the correct steps to see what it looks like

don't impose your limitations upon other people as if they were fact
the only way you can make ro balanced is using the rock-paper-scissors formula for everything in the game.


this beats that and that beats it and it beats this


EVERYTHING


every positive has a negative. you would have to perfectly weigh each one to create "balance"


You buff double strafe? Now you gotta either buff or nerf something else.

Offline rubie123

Re: Game balance
« Reply #7 on: Feb 13, 2017, 10:57 AM »
please don't lie to the impressionable audience, balance is not obtainable for a person like you who hasn't done the correct steps to see what it looks like

don't impose your limitations upon other people as if they were fact

rootKid is right. It just isn't possible.
@Blinzer: You're kinda full of it.

Offline Blinzer

Re: Game balance
« Reply #8 on: Feb 14, 2017, 04:16 PM »
All you brought to the table was a generic, pointless statement and have not so cleverly hid yourself in the shade to try to get away with saying it without having nearly enough information to be able to make a point to begin with.

I'm not interested in discussing whether it's possible or not with a bunch of peasants who don't even know how to use the peak of the capabilities of what already is in the game, let alone have enough of a mind to imagine what a better version of it would look like. I simply stated the fact so that when reality sets in in a way that you will no longer be able to deny it, you can't even say "you never told us". As I explain to my music students who much like you can barely make a note out of their instrument, it's your problem if you want to suck. I already know what I'm doing.
« Last Edit: Feb 14, 2017, 04:21 PM by Blinzer »

Offline Zinnia

Re: Game balance
« Reply #9 on: Feb 14, 2017, 05:03 PM »
Blinzer is the best game designer out there, he knows all the inside outs of RO :clown:

I feel sorry for his students if he's actually a teacher though

Offline rootKid

Re: Game balance
« Reply #10 on: Feb 14, 2017, 09:02 PM »
please don't lie to the impressionable audience, balance is not obtainable for a person like you who hasn't done the correct steps to see what it looks like

don't impose your limitations upon other people as if they were fact

Instead of imposing limitations, perhaps my insight was meant to empower the "impressionable audience" to have confidence in their own creativity and decision-making capability.
Awareness of limitations can also allow us to avoid wasting time with impractical pursuits.
Why re-invent the wheel? Revival of Ragnarok Online? Ragnarok Online is not dead.

It is worth noting that in your response you appear as if knowledgeable about the "steps" necessary to achieve balance.
If that is your position, the burden of proof is on you.
We will have to see, won't we?
My YouTube Channel
My Discord Channel



Fight the bureaucratization of our Ragnarok Online community hubs! An overabundance of nitpicking-rules & regulations are counter-intuitive to community progress, discussion, creativity. and most importantly, enjoyment.

Offline Cyan Hijirikawa

Re: Game balance
« Reply #11 on: Feb 15, 2017, 04:59 AM »
All you brought to the table was a generic, pointless statement and have not so cleverly hid yourself in the shade to try to get away with saying it without having nearly enough information to be able to make a point to begin with.

I'm not interested in discussing whether it's possible or not with a bunch of peasants who don't even know how to use the peak of the capabilities of what already is in the game, let alone have enough of a mind to imagine what a better version of it would look like. I simply stated the fact so that when reality sets in in a way that you will no longer be able to deny it, you can't even say "you never told us". As I explain to my music students who much like you can barely make a note out of their instrument, it's your problem if you want to suck. I already know what I'm doing.

Watch me.

Offline Blinzer

Re: Game balance
« Reply #12 on: Feb 15, 2017, 06:43 PM »
I feel sorry for his students if he's actually a teacher though

you really shouldn't be surprised that i'm good enough to teach people for a job instead of trying to scam people out of their money like you do



found ya' boy scouting my server today after i trashed on you in this topic, what are the odds! amazing coincidence

maybe we should start a topic discussing where cookie ended up after ggRO, surely we'd be able to find the answer if we thought about it hard enough

« Last Edit: Feb 15, 2017, 07:08 PM by Blinzer »

Offline Zinnia

Re: Game balance
« Reply #13 on: Feb 17, 2017, 03:12 AM »
LMAO no I don't think so

But go ahead with conspiracy-theories, it's good entertaining.

Offline Blinzer

Re: Game balance
« Reply #14 on: Feb 17, 2017, 10:06 AM »
it sounds like it's said by a 5 year old

"lmaoo!!! yea rite!!! you're lying!!! nice try!!"


anyone who has a keen eye has already noticed that both you and cookie like to sarcastically mock people by putting a smiley face after you say something you don't believe

Quote
Blinzer is the best game designer out there, he knows all the inside outs of RO :clown:



you also both frantically resorted to opening with a similar statement because you had nothing else to say due to your asocial nature of being a slimeball

it's funny how you came to get information about my server but you somehow gave me more information than you got from me, how weak you are impresses me. i can even tell you what the stupid reply you're thinking of saying as you read this is going to be: "how absurd that you think i am cookie! that's ridiculous!".

you would say this reply because you're trying to divert attention away from the truth. i'm not implying you're the same person, you mong. i'm saying you get along well.

by attacking something which actually does not exist, you would be able to never address what actually exists and keep making your weak attempts at sarcastic remarks forever. guess you can't really do that now that i read you like a book though, so go ahead and write that 5 word reply in which you "don't give this mad man any more information than what you already have".

https://youtu.be/yAMGBm-BHgY?t=60s


you could have addressed anything in this topic, but you went out of your way and completely off topic to try to insult me or attack me, likely due to some vendetta you have over me destroying you in argument in the past or calling you out for what you are. so your solution is to change nothing about yourself and come back to me for a rematch. what do you expect is going to happen?

i have an idea. before you next try to challenge me, shut down your server and make "Peak of Midgard" or whatever the f*** reboot of your server to cash grab again you're planning on making. not a single person here doesn't know it's coming, so at least get that on the table so i can put you all the way under for good.
« Last Edit: Feb 17, 2017, 12:10 PM by Blinzer »

Offline Zinnia

Re: Game balance
« Reply #15 on: Feb 17, 2017, 12:29 PM »
I actually just gently poked you because you're the clown of this forum and everyone believes the same, but after thinking about it twice I do really feel bad for your students.


Talking about the server, you can ask my staff, i don't take a single $ off it. Trying again to make a server doesn't mean you make it for cash. It just means you're trying again and you have time for it.

Offline Blinzer

Re: Game balance
« Reply #16 on: Feb 17, 2017, 04:10 PM »
I actually just gently poked you because you're the clown of this forum and everyone believes the same, but after thinking about it twice I do really feel bad for your students.


Talking about the server, you can ask my staff, i don't take a single $ off it. Trying again to make a server doesn't mean you make it for cash. It just means you're trying again and you have time for it.

"Deflection is ignoring or turning away either an internal or external emotional trigger in order to prevent full recognition or awareness of associated material."

whatever you say, zinnia from rise of midgard

go seek some more approval from the people around you because you are too weak to stand alone, i'll be in my hut working on something relevant to planet earth

and relevant to this topic
« Last Edit: Feb 17, 2017, 05:02 PM by Blinzer »

Offline Zinnia

Re: Game balance
« Reply #17 on: Feb 17, 2017, 06:18 PM »
How am I too weak to stand alone while I'm the only person still mad enough to answer to you? xD

Man I say that out of deep honesty and sincerity, you should really see a psychologist.

Offline yC

Re: Game balance
« Reply #18 on: Feb 18, 2017, 11:25 AM »
A warning to both of you, this is not an open ground for this kind of argument which has nothing to do with the topic in discussion.

Robert,  I see you haven't give back any feedback not sure if you are still interested in your topic.  If you wish to re-open this topic for more answers you may pm me to clear the topic from unrelated posts.   Or you may open a new topic.