Deliverance online

[annamaria]

Oh, and I've already seen every topic about Deliverance corruption that everyone and their mother has started.

NoS, could you type out a response instead of linking to that topic please? It doesn't answer much, imo.

[AzuleGod]

I believe most of the points in that topic were addressed by Crono himself.
All other points were not backed up by significant evidence.

Please expand.

[NoS]

Try reading all of it carefully and see how everyone responds. Im not your tutor, figure out things for yourself. Its not that hard.

[annamaria]

I've read it.

Do you mind outlining what you're addressing or something?

It'd be rather helpful in making your point. :]

[AzuleGod]

I believe most of the points in that topic were addressed by Crono himself.
All other points were not backed up by significant evidence.

Please expand.

[DrivenByTheHate]

Just for clarification, CH discussed unallying Divine [have savedchats] well before Divine even considered that possibility. Like wise, its pretty stupid to assume the charges were brought up simply due to guilds being anatagonistic toward one another. I know for a fact Divine brought up charges against members of CH while the two guilds were still good friends and allied.

Yes they worked hard for their 140's, but does that give them the right to be dicks in circumvention of the rules? No. If you want, blue, I can provide many examples of them [and others as its not necessarily simply CH] being dicks but getting no punishment as they "technically were not breaking any rules."

You're simply ignorant or were not very active in the forums. Things get deleted/removed all the time. Several times, accusations of scandals have been quickly removed. Your's wasnt because it probably wasn't true so they would have no reason to delete it.

As for henhouse being banned, he was not until after he had no reason to use it anymore, as he had gotten 140 already. The thing people are missing about Terri's situation is, Crono pm-ed her to see what her defense was and then decided at first not to punish her as it was simply a "loophole." The rule really was not that unclear and refer to the earlier topic for several good points about this incident. I'll wrap up some of the solid points. First, does every one that reportedly dual clients get a pm asking for a defense? The answer would be no. Why? Could it be that they both were members from Redemption and that Terri was one of the first to join deliveance? Perhaps. You see there is a dual standard on deliverance, a point I expanded on in the previous topic.

Crono may be trying to "fix" imabalnces, but the cause of the problem could have been dealt with better. Its stupid to not regard the blacklisting as one of the chief causes of the imbalance. Likewise, the ability to blacklist has also, in my opinion, quickened the pace of the degradation of the economy to the point where zeny is worthless. [There have been claims by a credible source who says his/her source is a SubGM that Crono is/was reluctant to end the blacklisting due to the amount of money he recieved. I believe Jake said in Izlude that the server gets about 24k a year or so. Im pretty sure most people on RMS knows how much it costs to host a sever and can see the notably large amount of money, real money, that is being made as profit]

Andoresu may be helpful as a spanish speaking SubGM, but the fact that him being in a "Relationship" with sharu or being in CH and being friends with the otehr subbies being the reason that he was chosen over other equally if not more deserving choices is what concerns me. As for Sharu, while she may be "nice" to a certain population, neither her nor Sting/Andoresu were slow to post biased and at least implicitly flame inciting posts on forums and in game. In fact, Sting/Andoresu tried to pm and [harass and/or bother] several memebers of the "Divine" guild. I know because he attempted to do this to me.

EDIT for Blue: I do not think Crono replied to the points made by myself and Butters  if you read the topic fully.

[NoS]

 Azure and anna. That deli corruption topic tells pretty much the whole story. Like DrivenByTheHate said. If you were not active on the forums, or just plain ignorant.... well I cannot help you.

[AzuleGod]

If you want, blue, I can provide many examples of them [and others as its not necessarily simply CH] being dicks but getting no punishment as they "technically were not breaking any rules."

Go for it, otherwise your comments aren't backed up by any evidence.

You're simply ignorant or were not very active in the forums. Things get deleted/removed all the time. Several times, accusations of scandals have been quickly removed. Your's wasnt because it probably wasn't true so they would have no reason to delete it.

A. Mine is true.
B. Provide me some examples so as to fix my "ignorant" state, please.

As for henhouse being banned, he was not until after he had no reason to use it anymore, as he had gotten 140 already.

If you don't have any evidence, you're needlessly harming a good server's rep.

The thing people are missing about Terri's situation is, Crono pm-ed her to see what her defense was and then decided at first not to punish her as it was simply a "loophole."

Yes, and I believe Bella (or anyone else) would have received the same treatment.

The rule really was not that unclear and refer to the earlier topic for several good points about this incident.

The rule Crono posted was unclear. That has been fixed now, and Terri was banned for quite a long time.

I'll wrap up some of the solid points. First, does every one that reportedly dual clients get a pm asking for a defense? The answer would be no. Why? Could it be that they both were members from Redemption and that Terri was one of the first to join deliveance? Perhaps. You see there is a dual standard on deliverance, a point I expanded on in the previous topic.

Having read the rule breaking forum over and over, I can see a trend of Crono actually being harsher on rulebreakers from CH than any other guild.

Crono may be trying to "fix" imabalnces, but the cause of the problem could have been dealt with better. Its stupid to not regard the blacklisting as one of the chief causes of the imbalance. Likewise, the ability to blacklist has also, in my opinion, quickened the pace of the degradation of the economy to the point where zeny is worthless.

What would you have suggested?
I obviously know very little, being the ignorant person that I am.

There have been claims by a credible source who says his/her source is a SubGM that Crono is/was reluctant to end the blacklisting due to the amount of money he recieved. I believe Jake said in Izlude that the server gets about 24k a year or so. Im pretty sure most people on RMS knows how much it costs to host a sever and can see the notably large amount of money, real money, that is being made as profit

My best friend's sister's boyfriend's roommate says that point is stupid.

Andoresu may be helpful as a spanish speaking SubGM, but the fact that him being in a "Relationship" with sharu or being in CH and being friends with the otehr subbies being the reason that he was chosen over other equally if not more deserving choices is what concerns me.

Who else was more deserving, again, my ignorance is obviously my downfall.

EDIT for Blue: I do not think Crono replied to the points made by myself and Butters  if you read the topic fully.

Save me some time and help your own argument, quote those points specifically.

[StickTuna]

So, annamaria here. :]

Game Play Rating
Economy: I guess its fkd up like people say. Uh, honestly I have no problem with it. Though I do remember the days where lites cost 30mil, hahah. Well, it's expected that there is going to be billions of zeny after over 3 years [? or two] of the server without any wipes or anything. Blacklists, unbalanced, blah blah, in regards to that, sure. I've never spent anything on this game. My 109 sinx got its donkey kicked by a level 99 sinx [with blacklists] who didn't even have sinx as their main char, just 2 or 3 days ago.
Guild Competition: It used to be great, but now it kinda sucks/is getting better. Entente Perfume is actually an excellent guild opposing the alliance, which is pretty cool. Nobody even bothers attacking CH, lawl. Which sucks, haha. But Last Hope is back I think, and there are a few more rising guilds.
Class Balance: Everyone picks sinx, etc etc, hahaha. The reason my main is a sinx is that [2 years ago] the guy I liked was a sinx, and I wanted to be like him and stuff. Haha. :] But yeah. Its not that bad though. Um. Wizzies, priests, LK's, are often used too. The imbalance isn't all that bad.

Just pointing out...About the class balances, your point seems to be confused. The first point about it when you talked about the economy includes you being beaten as a L109 sinx by a L99 sinx. Wouldn't that mean that there's quite a bit of imbalance there, and a bad one at that? The imbalance there is of items and not levels.

From what I've seen, very few people play Profs, esp as their main. Scratch that. It doesn't matter how often a class is played by how many people. The point of class imbalance is that certain classes overpower another (or more) too much. I have seen 140's solo a castle, especially ones in Alde and Payon where only small guilds constitutes the forces battling them. How wrong is that?

If the GMs and players believe that the ones who leveled to 140 deserves to overpower certain individuals, then
1. they do not care about balance
2. they might as well put the cap to 999 and watch 20 L999's each take all the castles because they deserve to

Why is it so hard/takes so much time to get to 140? People join 50x server expecting not to grind like 10x to reach the max level. This may support pure capitalism but in the fairness point of view, it's just not fair for the ones who are lower leveled.

In your description of Guild Competition, it pretty much spells out the graveness of the imbalance.

I'm in EXE. My guild is allied to CH. It pisses me off when everyone jumps on the bandwagon to blame everything that goes wrong on CH because well, sht. They have 140's right? They all WORKED for their 140's. They grinf like sick. They level because they WANT to be that good, haha. They strive for it. They've earned it. I know I suck because I hardly have leveled in 2 years, I'm only 109. CH is a group of really great people. They're fkin HILARIOUS, as anyone whose been in their guild will contest to [and isn't biased, lawl]. I've been in EXE ever since I joined the server because my brother went to school with most of them. I don't even think we were allied to CH for quite awhile. I joined them one day because I was in an argument with someone in EXE [haha, remember those days?]. We weren't even allied yet. And after like a day in there, I wanted to stay in CH. They were accepting, funny, etc. It took so much effort to go back to EXE, which was a group of people I knew IN REAL LIFE. CH just has that amazing effect, haha. I think the whole dual-clienting situation was taken so out of context. Sure, she did wrong and stuff, but jesus, being all OMG PERMABAN KRUPT FAVORITISM just got out of hand. I'm freakin sure that Crono would've done the same for heck, Bella [using her as an example because she's from Divine]. Crono's not a jerk. And sht, we're all human. We all make mistakes. Why can't people get that through their minds? It's not like she had a history of dual-clienting or something, lol. Also, I feel the main reason that Divine/Paw [sorry to be grouping you guys] got all pissed like that was because well, CH was/is better than them and they wanted to hurt CH in any way they could. Okay, so previously, EXE, CH, Divine, and Genesis/DDRA were allied. The 'enemies' to that alliance were Paw, Pande, etc. Then CH and Divine's relationship became rocky somehow. Divine was like, super close to allying paw. And CH wasn't going to stand for that. So they dropped Divine as an ally. I guess Divine was like fk u guyz its war nao, so they allied Paw and there was a few epic WoEs with Divine and Paw hitting CH pretty hard, haha. Then the dual-clienting thing happened, and Divine and Paw members mostly [sorry for grouping you guys in again] called for her banning, etc. Then they left the server, blah blah, everyone knows the rest.

Still up to this point, your arguments quite contradict themselves. One may already notice that the arguments are one-sided and biased, while giving not enough credit for mistakes.

Grinding like mad...they may as well go to a lower rate server and achieve such things. I like how it was good at 50x to get to L99, but to 140, it's really not fitting the 50x promise.

From what I remember, double-clienting would result in a perma-ban for anyone. You cannot put another person as an example because that's only rationalizing from what a person MIGHT do, but not what a person WOULD do. So saying that Crono would've done the same for another person...that is not persuasive.

A criminal does not have to have a history of doing crimes in order to do one. Sure, we can all make mistakes, but I don't see why you would double client just to buff someone without logging off your original character. It's not a mistake at this point...it's intentional.

Overall, I just want to point out that Deli isn't all that "good" as you have pointed out.

[NoS]

I think the deli corruption topic has covered most of these issues. Including the Henhouse one.

[taugammaphi]

Having read the rule breaking forum over and over, I can see a trend of Crono actually being harsher on rulebreakers from CH than any other guild.

LOL blue. i would really like to see that happen.

[AzuleGod]

What Anna is saying, is that blacklists are imbalanced.
She is agreeing with the previous posts.

Class balance isn't as nice as I would like.
Specifically, everyone seems to play as an Assassin Cross.

On the other hand, people who actually know how to play their class generally have an easy time against your standard Assassin Cross, even one with blacklist-level items.

Let's face it right now, more time spent on the server = More ownage.
In Deli's case, it means getting to 140, farming equipment, or hunting MvP cards.

Why is it so hard/takes so much time to get to 140? People join 50x server expecting not to grind like 10x to reach the max level. This may support pure capitalism but in the fairness point of view, it's just not fair for the ones who are lower leveled.

Why is not fair?
Why should the lower leveled players be able to compete with those who have spent over 200 hours on their character?
I'm afraid I don't see your point (probably my "ignorance"), could you expand?

LOL blue. i would really like to see that happen.

It seems I'm not the only "ignorant" one around here.
It does, in fact, happen.

I think the deli corruption topic covers all that needs to be covered....

Then, my friend, you won't mind giving a quick summary to those too ignorant to find the proper points?

[annamaria]

In response to DrivenByTheHate
@1st paragraph: I wasn't saying it was brought up because they were antagonists, but the main reason they kept it up was that they hated CH, etc.

@2nd paragraph: I'm not Blue, but as anna, I would like examples of how they were 'dicks in circumvention of the rules'. And I think all of us have been jerks and gotten away with it >.>;

@3rd paragraph: They don't get deleted or removed, they get moved or hidden I think. Leaving them in the open give everyone who wants +1 post count to post and sht. If someone really wanted to show something to the GMs or report it, they could PM it, amirite?

@4th paragraph: I don't know about you, but if I recall correctly, Henhouse was banned before he was 140. It was for the GGD thing, if you remember. Okay, honestly guys, Crono is a goddamn human. He asked her what her defense was. What is wrong with that? You guys act like he should be a total jerk who automatically bans everyone for anything. Think about it if Terri was someone different, one of your guildmates. Would you feel differently about what her punishment should have been? Hell yes, you would.

@5th paragraph: Blacklisting is a problem. Okay. What can be done about it that won't piss off everyone who has already blacklisted? Not much.

@6th paragraph: Who else deserved it as well as Andoresu? Please tell me. And what kind of harrassing PM's? Copies plx.

In response to StickTuna
@1st paragraph: I said 'blacklists, unbalanced...sure' as in, agreeing with it. I don't make a huge point to freak out over it though. I know I shouldn't be as good as someone with blacklists. I don't level or sell Royal jellies to get enough money for a meg or anything.

@2nd paragraph: It's wrong, sure. It'd be nice if it gave the smaller guilds more of an incentive to level, work together, etc.

@3rd paragraph: I'm sure they care about the balance and stuff, duh, its their server. I don't think anyone was really expected to level that high way back then. Heck, the 140 cap was put in. And we're hella lucky they did because I bet some people might have been able to go for 255 or whatever it was.

@4th paragraph: I don't get what you're trying to address here, sorry.

@everything you said after quoting me the second time: Uh, duh, I said it from my point of view. Dude, everyone fks up. We're all human, get over it. And you don't remember right then. Dual-clienting WAS allowed in certain instances. It was just something she did because she was too lazy to log out. It's not like she duplicated items or something.

Yayyyyy. Long post.

Edit:

And can we just stop arguing over he said she said he did she did?

This is seriously NEVER going to end otherwise.

Just let people post what their opinion on Deli is, yeah?

Btw, you guys make me lol because half the arguments are picking at what people say, and making them sound wrong, contradicting, hypocritical, etc.

[taugammaphi]

lol , you know what i think blue ? it's like ,good for you im not good with words. lol. and no, if HE WAS HARSHER. some guy from CH would've been banned for a couple of months now. because from what i recall , some guys got banned for doing something that , a WELL-KNOWN CH member has been doing. lol.

i dont have crap against any guild tho. i still love deli, cause i have my friends and my stuff there. LOL . no crap against being 140 or bl or w/e the fk some are complaining about.

[AzuleGod]

lol , you know what i think blue ? it's like ,good for you im not good with words. lol. and no, if HE WAS HARSHER. some guy from CH would've been banned for a couple of months now. because from what i recall , some guys got banned for doing something that , a WELL-KNOWN CH member has been doing. lol.

i dont have crap against any guild tho. i still love deli, cause i have my friends and my stuff there. LOL . no crap against being 140 or bl or w/e the fk some are complaining about.

What?