Can this server be done or its too ideal ?

[starmagic]

Hi I'm talking about a server where player can freely criticism about gm and server owner without topic being locked or deleted.

I've play in many servers and I can see the cause of corrupted and abused power because nobody can criticism about gm and server owner.Everyone want to be friend with GMs because they expected special threatment from GMs (Could be free items,spawn mvp,ability to insult other player without themself getting jail or ban,advantage in woe).Even nicest person in the world could easily corrupted by those players.

I dont think most people who apply as GM really want to serve people and upkeep the rules.
They just simply want GM power by any mean necessary.If they're not GM nobody will care or praise them.

What I do think is we should hire GM from players and reward them as a headgear or OCA in game if person can process his/her duty a month without revoked.

Condition GM revoked

- Abused power by jailed someone they hated,give aways items or advantage any guild in woe
- Being rude to players or insulted them
- Use their GM char for other purpose than support or their duty.
- GM normal char banned for 5 days or perm

This will help GM job more public serve than GM who abused power.
Somehow we need to improved GM support system to help GM not freak out by 40 pms at the time

- Support schedule for example GM A working support for monday - tuesday 18.00pm - 20.00pm and post this schedule on forum.
- Support town helpdesk mute all pm setup a chatroom in a town for example izlude and people who need help must lineup and talk to gm one by one.
- Any begging money or items will be automaticly jailed for 1 day,however complain criticism is not included.

If there's such as this server I really would like to play on.

[Irrelevant]

Hi I'm talking about a server where player can freely criticism about gm and server owner without topic being locked or deleted.

None. Simply because no one would want to deal with corruption drama while in the public view. It just generates flamewars and amounts to nothing more than a hearsay-fest.

I've play in many servers and I can see the cause of corrupted and abused power because nobody can criticism about gm and server owner.Everyone want to be friend with GMs because they expected special threatment from GMs (Could be free items,spawn mvp,ability to insult other player without themself getting jail or ban,advantage in woe).Even nicest person in the world could easily corrupted by those players.

Just avoid said servers. Voi-effing-la.

I dont think most people who apply as GM really want to serve people and upkeep the rules.
They just simply want GM power by any mean necessary.If they're not GM nobody will care or praise them.

Welcome to the private RO server world - where we don't give a damn about your thoughts.

What I do think is we should hire GM from players and reward them as a headgear or OCA in game if person can process his/her duty a month without revoked.

You would just encourage the wrong people to apply with that method.

Condition GM revoked

- Abused power by jailed someone they hated,give aways items or advantage any guild in woe
- Being rude to players or insulted them
- Use their GM char for other purpose than support or their duty.
- GM normal char banned for 5 days or perm

No, duh. Might as well include @kill, @nuke, #allstats or any other dumb action that most people wouldn't do out of common sense.

This will help GM job more public serve than GM who abused power.

Being a GM is not public service.

Somehow we need to improved GM support system to help GM not freak out by 40 pms at the time

- Support schedule for example GM A working support for monday - tuesday 18.00pm - 20.00pm and post this schedule on forum.
- Support town helpdesk mute all pm setup a chatroom in a town for example izlude and people who need help must lineup and talk to gm one by one.
- Any begging money or items will be automaticly jailed for 1 day,however complain criticism is not included.

Already been done in many servers, plus no one ever has technical support questions; they all want to know where to find an item, quest, or just plain beg for items.

If there's such as this server I really would like to play on.

Any server that's not run by a 16 year old or less and/or the administrator doesn't act like a douche in public.

hmm, pre-ro is the synonym of what you just said, pre-ro.net or mylazysundays.com

Translation: I don't really feel like addressing your post so I'll just blatantly advertise.

[Poki]

The idea of hiring players as a GM is bad enough.  Rewarding them is even worse.
Corruption will never go away.  Though servers with no corruption exists.  It's your job to find it.

How do you find a server that has no corruption?  Just study the staff team carefully and their past.  Look for features that show how dedicated they are to the server as a Staff member and not a player.

In your case, you need to stop playing servers where the staff team supports corruption.  A team that aren't all friends in real life and works together in being the best secretly.  The best staff team is usually a team that isn't composed of close friends.

[Rehael]

Hi I'm talking about a server where player can freely criticism about gm and server owner without topic being locked or deleted.

I've play in many servers and I can see the cause of corrupted and abused power because nobody can criticism about gm and server owner.Everyone want to be friend with GMs because they expected special threatment from GMs (Could be free items,spawn mvp,ability to insult other player without themself getting jail or ban,advantage in woe).Even nicest person in the world could easily corrupted by those players.

I dont think most people who apply as GM really want to serve people and upkeep the rules.
They just simply want GM power by any mean necessary.If they're not GM nobody will care or praise them.

What I do think is we should hire GM from players and reward them as a headgear or OCA in game if person can process his/her duty a month without revoked.

Condition GM revoked

- Abused power by jailed someone they hated,give aways items or advantage any guild in woe
- Being rude to players or insulted them
- Use their GM char for other purpose than support or their duty.
- GM normal char banned for 5 days or perm

This will help GM job more public serve than GM who abused power.
Somehow we need to improved GM support system to help GM not freak out by 40 pms at the time

- Support schedule for example GM A working support for monday - tuesday 18.00pm - 20.00pm and post this schedule on forum.
- Support town helpdesk mute all pm setup a chatroom in a town for example izlude and people who need help must lineup and talk to gm one by one.
- Any begging money or items will be automaticly jailed for 1 day,however complain criticism is not included.

If there's such as this server I really would like to play on.

one string, http://valiantro.com
if you don't believe me read forums a bit >_<

@other posts :
Sorry guys, but i don't see how fullfilling those basic requirements are meant to be impossible...

[Loki]

There's nothing to prove in reading your server's forum Rehael.

I find the most devious GMs are those who are intelligent and do their GMing right while reaping the benefits of corruption. Its not like every corrupted GM are immature and stupid. Some are too good to be true. You'll never know what they're hiding up their sleeves.

Or, find a server with no GMs.

[starmagic]

I dont understand why hiring GMs is bad idea ?
Yes there's reward system for doing good job to encourage people to do the job as GM but you have to understand if they failed as GM or people reported them for being corrupted there's a conseuquence for their normal char punnishment and in order to earn the reward they have to working flawlessly for a month without being report,isnt that hard enough to get reward ?

While in currently one you cant even criticism GM and that's the root of corruption.
This system provide GM power and accountability.

[Mania]

You should find a server with a "feedback" area that allows constructive criticism. Most servers I've come across with a feedback section allow GM criticism as long as it is constructive.  I'm perfectly fine reading "Hey Mania, you're not doing your job well!" if it's followed by, "Maybe if you were on more often/you should answer player problems more quickly/your team is being kinda lax/etc". As long as their criticism is followed up by a reason or a suggestion instead of overt GM flaming I don't see why you couldn't post your staff qualms on a forum.

I hire GMs from my players first then I turn to RMS or another board if my quota hasn't been filled. I don't hand pick my GMs I post an open ended application, just as I would on RMS, and see who comes to my rescue. Most of the time my players don't even apply, let alone me hire them. I just feel it's fair to open a GM position up to the people who know my server the best. If I hire them or not is completely based on their application and interview.

As far as "rewarding" the GM, I tend to sway both ways. I think if a reward system for GMs is open to public knowledge the "corrupt" flag starts waving. Especially if the GMs legit char ends up with a cash of OCAs or headgear. I have worked on my server for 8 months with one complaint (from a GM I fired) would that mean I would have 7 OCA/headgear on my legit char?  I don't think that is fair. However, I tend to think people don't work for nothing. If a GM is to be rewarded the reward should not be an in game item. I know some offer ADs/Credits/Points at a low rate for monthly "pay". My server offers VIP membership for legit characters. You don't get items in the VIP area, just access to a stylist, buffer, free warper, and a couple other things that still cost zeny to use.

As the others said, just really research the server you'd like to join. GMs should be happy to answer any of your questions concerning their experience as a GM, their RO background, and their overall GM duties. And they should be able to discuss all of this with you in a public setting.

Good luck!

[Uzam]

When people say a good server would have no GMs that just means they're that kind of player who can't stand someone having more power or authority than them, they want to point out every little thing that's not working in the server, and they have a pre-conceived notion that every single GM is corrupt or unfair in their mind. Those people are sad :/

[Skotlex]

When people say a good server would have no GMs that just means they're that kind of player who can't stand someone having more power or authority than them, they want to point out every little thing that's not working in the server, and they have a pre-conceived notion that every single GM is corrupt or unfair in their mind. Those people are sad :/

Not necessarily. It's more of a line of thought that goes "power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." Though it certainly doesn't HAS to be an universal truth for every server, I'd say that the amount of servers that do fall victim to this covers a large enough section of the server world as to convince more than a few players that it is indeed a fact.

[SZiaDaN]

When people say a good server would have no GMs that just means they're that kind of player who can't stand someone having more power or authority than them, they want to point out every little thing that's not working in the server, and they have a pre-conceived notion that every single GM is corrupt or unfair in their mind. Those people are sad :/

No.

-Ramble start-

I personally don't see why GM's have to be around all the time.
Sure, someone to bot check and make sure everyone follows the rules and what not.

But if you look at the majority of the servers out there today, A LOT of the GM's that may for example be "event GMs" have a lot more power than they need. Which usually ends with them sitting around in prontera playing around with their @commands and crashing everyone. Or giving friends some kind of advantage via buffing them with @useskill etc.

When I started to play RO, I barely ever met the GM's at all. For all I knew they could be dead, and honestly, I didn't care as long as I could play the game.
And since I never attended events (which wasn't exactly often held) I never really had any chans of meeting one of them.
In my opinion, that server would of run just as good without in game GM's. Sure, maybe 1 that were bot hunting. But other than that I, personally, saw no use for them.

Some of you may think it's essential to have a GM running around prontera 24/7. I prefer GM's that login as hidding and perhaps broadcast a "If anyone needs any help, PM me now" message and doesn't befriend anyone in particular.
Why? Because you can be sure that this particular GM will always make fair judgements in all situations, no matter who is involved.

Other GM's that sits around in prontera all day talking to people etc. They tend to make some friends, and wont punish their friends the same way they would punish other people that breaks the exact same rule. If they even punish their friends at all that is.


Conclusion: No GM's online at all except for an occasional bot checker and mediator = best IMHO

-Ramble end-

On Topic:

Most server GM's are little kids that have learned how to download a presetup eAthena. Of course they can't take criticizesm.
Most "real" GM's that doesn't have their position just to fool around with @commands and flexing their "power" to everyone should be able to take criticizesm as long as it is constructive and not just "I think GM blahblah sucks donkey balls". Well even if it wasn't constructive, they shouldn't be banning you for it.

And if the admin doesn't ban/revoke the GM's that can't handle their duty, then it's not a matter of getting better GM's. It the admin you would need to change.
With a good admin, you will usually see good GM's. Since a good admin wouldn't hire a bad GM, and if he did, he would get rid of him fast anyway.

And I see no reason at all why the GM team should be rewarded in game.

[GorthexTiger]

I honestly think it's on how you approach a situation.

If you want to report a GM for their actions, behavior, possible corruption, you gotta prepare ahead of time before you report them.

Get any possible evidence, gather chat logs, etc, and write a well-composed, list of grievences.

Then, take that list and bring it to their supervisor.

If no action is taken, report it then to the administrator, along with the time / date of when you reported it to the Supervisor.

If no action is taken now, leave the server.

And don't be all "dey banned me! Day are bad person!!11" it makes you look stupid, and no one is gonna believe you, just for the sheer fact that your stupidity is over-flowing.

Don't flame, don't assume s***, because the instant you start assuming stuff, you need proof for it.

I can see the benefits of hiring players and non-players, but it's really the responsibility of the admin to make sure that any powers a GM recieves, can't be used to gain stuff fir thhemselves.

[Uzam]

Quote SZiaDaN - "Bla bla bla"
Sorry, the first couple lines of your post made me fall asleep :/
But in case you didn't know, GMs are around on their server to show that they care about it and have an interest, if someone's breaking the rules on the game they can ban them right there and then instead of having people report it on the forums, thats what a good GM does, has an interest in the server and its players, holds events and shows the players that they actually care enough to log onto the game.
You should use your head more It isn't a hard concept to understand, stop with this damn idea that all GMs are corrupt, go make your own server then and then just make a legit and just play on it and never have a GM show up on it, see how long your server lasts

[Tom~]

^ Start being mature please.

On topic:
One server actually tried to implement a system like that one, but it failed. Why? GMs were always right. <.<

[Uzam]

I'm just saying stop being mad at the fact that GMs can make their server anyway they want, and change it anyway they want. If they want to ban someone from their server because they don't like them they can go ahead and do it, just hope that you're not that person, but tomaschx, you'd be #dropall, @nuke, kill-on-sight, @jail person on my server, I'd make you quit without banning you 

[Tom~]

I wouldn't play a server with you as a GM. I'm not retarded, Uzam