Main GM quits RagnarokRevolution.

[SilverStream~]

Scars, it's just like you said in a post before; If you don't like it, leave.

The majority of the ro communities are people who are nice to most people, except those who take everything too seriously and etc.

Keeping a "Be nice to everyone" rule is realyl the best rule you can have.
You can't enforce it 100%, but you can't enforce most rules anyway.  What's the difference between "Don't harass, insult, etc", and "Be nice to everyone", when insulting happens on a daily basis with f-words and the likes storming through @Main like some kind of swear river?

The point of the rule is to create a generaly better, and more happy community.  If you put up a sign on a outlaw store/place saying "Don't kill people, you will be put in jail/hanged", people would respect it more then if it wasn't there in the first place.


Rules are more like gm's, if they are there the people act more according to them as opposed to if they weren't there.



Respect should be earned, that's true.  But if you are already a gm, you don't have to earn respect, you can say it's going to be like this and this, and end of story.  The way you present it in, and what "it" is however is a different matter.  Regarding rules and how to behave, you don't want a bunch of pinoy people taking over your server making pvp a hell for everyone but them now do you?  People wouldn't come to the server if something like that was there.  Same with anything, if a group of brits came and began to "rule" over the server like kings and controlling most things you wouldn't like that either.  It can't be avoided completely, but it can be guided to another direction.

It's exactly like normal life.  If there were no laws, there would be mayhem(eks; some ro servers).  If there were(as is) laws, people would abide them.  There is still killing in the world, murders etc, but that's just the bad apples, and those get taken care of.

Lastly, you don't have to be nice, no.  But presenting a rule, and enforcing it is entirely different then not beign nice.  If you put the rule "Be nice to everyone", and one of your gm's sit in prontera being pissed at something(w/e), and someone starts mocking someone, then that gm can do his job and enforce the rule, and he can present it in any fashion he would like to.

So there is a great deal you can "controll", and as I said, alot of server owners and gm's need to learn that.
Alot of communities are shit, and that can be taken care of.

[Skotlex]

I am gonna have to add one rule then to my server.

"Use common sense and don't be annoying."

Somehow I fear that might end up banning everybody :B

The biggest problem with such broad laws is the simply fact that you can't objectively classify every act as "good" or "bad" without having to use your judgement, and then you can (and will) be wrong from time to time, and then people will call foul for being unjust or unfair.

Ideally you do want to treat everyone on a per-case basis, but even in reality laws often get coldly applied, because it's just impossible to be fair (ie: You have to choose between being just with just the person who is being accused, by taking into account his personal situation, or being just with everyone else who got punished before: that is, coldly applying the rules based on a set criteria).

Not every player is a trouble-maker, many of them just are rude when people push their buttons the right way, but they are loyal and nice to their own friends. Someone who may annoy you may be just so because you annoyed him in the first place.

Sure, you can ultimately hand down punishment according to your own criteria as a GM and believe you are in your right no matter what others say, but this has the likely risk of alienating people when someone is wrongly convicted.

(PS: Of course, this is taking the subject way beyond the black & white initial statement of letting arrogant, immature elitists overcrowd your server, but it's still an interesting subject)

[Orange]

Somehow I fear that might end up banning everybody :B

Every server should have a common sense rule, But then everyone breaks it. Constantly, :/

[SilverStream~]

You're starting to derail a little.

The point isn't to nazi reign over you players, but to guide them into acting better towards eachother.

It's more like the "an eye for an eye" thing, you act like a rude moron, the ones you are talking to will act like a rude moron.

Act nice to someone, they will act nice back.



I hate it when people start to nazi the rules and go away from what they really are.  Guidelines.

You can't nazi a country or town into acting exactly like you want them to, but you can sure as hell point them in the direction.
For RO servers, that means if you want other people to like you(the server), then you have to give off an image that people generaly like.

And few people like a server that is rumored to be rude, obnoxious, way too expensive, ignorant and you get my point.
Most like the server that can actually stand their ground and say "Yes, we do have an amazing great community", not the ones that are "We have this, and that, and even this!" of technical humbug with the game, and when someone asks "But.. What about your players.. the community?"; and the admin replies with "Well.. It's really crap, rude people everywhere, but I mean, what can you do right?".

<.< ... it's not the best thing to hear.


I hope you understand my point.

[Scars]

Scars, it's just like you said in a post before; If you don't like it, leave.

The majority of the ro communities are people who are nice to most people, except those who take everything too seriously and etc.

Keeping a "Be nice to everyone" rule is realyl the best rule you can have.
You can't enforce it 100%, but you can't enforce most rules anyway.  What's the difference between "Don't harass, insult, etc", and "Be nice to everyone", when insulting happens on a daily basis with f-words and the likes storming through @Main like some kind of swear river?

It can't be a rule in the meaning of if you dont follow it you'll get punish.

Guess what? "GM he's mean to me he's not following the rule, ban him"

I don't know how "rules" work in your head but to me rules is something absolute so if I were to list it as my rules yes I have to stick to it and make the punishment, where I should draw the line I have no idea to me its not just a stupid rule but as I've said its an impossible rule to enforce.

However it can be promoted, one idea is I have "friendliest people award" in my server.

If you're talking about "no insults/or no swearing" then its different.

I am gonna have to add one rule then to my server.

"Use common sense and don't be annoying."

Somehow I fear that might end up banning everybody :B

The biggest problem with such broad laws is the simply fact that you can't objectively classify every act as "good" or "bad" without having to use your judgement, and then you can (and will) be wrong from time to time, and then people will call foul for being unjust or unfair.

Ideally you do want to treat everyone on a per-case basis, but even in reality laws often get coldly applied, because it's just impossible to be fair (ie: You have to choose between being just with just the person who is being accused, by taking into account his personal situation, or being just with everyone else who got punished before: that is, coldly applying the rules based on a set criteria).

Not every player is a trouble-maker, many of them just are rude when people push their buttons the right way, but they are loyal and nice to their own friends. Someone who may annoy you may be just so because you annoyed him in the first place.

Sure, you can ultimately hand down punishment according to your own criteria as a GM and believe you are in your right no matter what others say, but this has the likely risk of alienating people when someone is wrongly convicted.

(PS: Of course, this is taking the subject way beyond the black & white initial statement of letting arrogant, immature elitists overcrowd your server, but it's still an interesting subject)

+1 and "Use common sense and don't be annoying."
I've always had that listed as one of my rule.

[Edward]

Thing that sucks though Pandora is RRO has been around since early 2005 and never has got past 200 players, so it actually has more bad players then good, which sucks horribly. In fact about 70% of the server is filipinos; now im not one to trash a race but im sure most if not all server owners have dealt with their annoyance.

Filipinos are the 2nd worst. 1st place is the BR's... Filipinos are not only rude, annoying, disrespectful, and dumb... but they never follow the rules, steal credit card #'s from call centers to donate, always complain about the smallest things, feel the need to ask a question several times even though you answered them, and spam you in-game/forums/msn. Plus they scare American players off a server cause they're just so obnoxious with their presence.

I dunno, I might return as the main GM if the current replacement I hired can fix the issues with the current users. Hopefully that will be the case. Because I love running that server x.x I don't wanna stop running it forever. There is no way I'll let almost 5 years of work go to waste.

Has anyone else heard about a situation like this? Or am I the first? XD

I am the owner of Surge, and I've given my server to another person before because of the same exact situation you are currently in. I can tell you that from my experience that you are making a major mistake. Cause soon after when you come back, you'll notice imperfections and things you wish you did in the past to make it better, and then realize that you'd want to wipe.

My current tip to you is to make your service towards the people you wish to please. If you got a server filled with pinoys... and you wish to gain more of other players, give extra care to those other players... and I don't mean; be biased, give freebies, etc. I mean... just help them out by teaching them the ropes more and forming a player-staff relationship which is friendly.

Also... here's another tip; ideas are great, however, not all of them fly with the server. Let's take your random WoE system for example and analyze this idea...
1) No other server has this, GREAT~!
2) It's your own script, and you know how it works and it's to your likings... awesome~!
3) No one is use to this system, and everyone plays the WoE and WoE 2.0 normal system with a consistent schedule so their guilds can plan, defend, and build up treasury points for their castle... HMM?
4) Probably the general population will now complain about how the announcement announces different castles and they're never able to keep a castle!
5) Dis-like towards the GM or Staff forms because of this forced change.

So... what you SHOULD do is become friends with actual players of the server... 1 or 2 is FINE. Make sure they're reasonable and competent individuals and are ACTIVE... Then you share ideas with them and since they are PLAYERS, you can see if they like it or not. It's better then... "Hmm... pins for a bank account will make the account safe~! Let's add it.", then 2 weeks later you get people crying and complaining about how pins take up time and they forget their pins. Then you think... "Yeah, maybe add a pin recovery.", then people cry about complain again about how the system's so confusing.

Just KISS, keep it simple s. And you've been doing this for 4? 5? years... so it hasn't worked out, so what have you done about it? Endure???

Observe, change, and adapt.

[carbine23]

Thing that sucks though Pandora is RRO has been around since early 2005 and never has got past 200 players, so it actually has more bad players then good, which sucks horribly. In fact about 70% of the server is filipinos; now im not one to trash a race but im sure most if not all server owners have dealt with their annoyance.

Yah i know what you mean, there's like 2 kinds of flips, one is the annoying kids/teenagers who couldn't stop talking trash, the second one is hard working people who will work their way to the top, but if you mess with them your doomed. I'm more on the second one =O
Posted on: Jun 20, 2009, 08:21 pm

Thing that sucks though Pandora is RRO has been around since early 2005 and never has got past 200 players, so it actually has more bad players then good, which sucks horribly. In fact about 70% of the server is filipinos; now im not one to trash a race but im sure most if not all server owners have dealt with their annoyance.

Filipinos are the 2nd worst. 1st place is the BR's... Filipinos are not only rude, annoying, disrespectful, and dumb... but they never follow the rules, steal credit card #'s from call centers to donate, always complain about the smallest things, feel the need to ask a question several times even though you answered them, and spam you in-game/forums/msn. Plus they scare American players off a server cause they're just so obnoxious with their presence.

I beg to differ, i'm a Filipino *but here in US*, and i only act like that if i really have too, or if I'm provoked. I know most of my fellow flips act like that, but you said "Filipinos" which indicate/means all of us, I'm not trying to stir up or make an argument, but i just wish you don't do the same.

[LiteX]

Thing that sucks though Pandora is RRO has been around since early 2005 and never has got past 200 players, so it actually has more bad players then good, which sucks horribly. In fact about 70% of the server is filipinos; now im not one to trash a race but im sure most if not all server owners have dealt with their annoyance.

Filipinos are the 2nd worst. 1st place is the BR's... Filipinos are not only rude, annoying, disrespectful, and dumb... but they never follow the rules, steal credit card #'s from call centers to donate, always complain about the smallest things, feel the need to ask a question several times even though you answered them, and spam you in-game/forums/msn. Plus they scare American players off a server cause they're just so obnoxious with their presence.

I dunno, I might return as the main GM if the current replacement I hired can fix the issues with the current users. Hopefully that will be the case. Because I love running that server x.x I don't wanna stop running it forever. There is no way I'll let almost 5 years of work go to waste.

Has anyone else heard about a situation like this? Or am I the first? XD

I am the owner of Surge, and I've given my server to another person before because of the same exact situation you are currently in. I can tell you that from my experience that you are making a major mistake. Cause soon after when you come back, you'll notice imperfections and things you wish you did in the past to make it better, and then realize that you'd want to wipe.

My current tip to you is to make your service towards the people you wish to please. If you got a server filled with pinoys... and you wish to gain more of other players, give extra care to those other players... and I don't mean; be biased, give freebies, etc. I mean... just help them out by teaching them the ropes more and forming a player-staff relationship which is friendly.

Also... here's another tip; ideas are great, however, not all of them fly with the server. Let's take your random WoE system for example and analyze this idea...
1) No other server has this, GREAT~!
2) It's your own script, and you know how it works and it's to your likings... awesome~!
3) No one is use to this system, and everyone plays the WoE and WoE 2.0 normal system with a consistent schedule so their guilds can plan, defend, and build up treasury points for their castle... HMM?
4) Probably the general population will now complain about how the announcement announces different castles and they're never able to keep a castle!
5) Dis-like towards the GM or Staff forms because of this forced change.

So... what you SHOULD do is become friends with actual players of the server... 1 or 2 is FINE. Make sure they're reasonable and competent individuals and are ACTIVE... Then you share ideas with them and since they are PLAYERS, you can see if they like it or not. It's better then... "Hmm... pins for a bank account will make the account safe~! Let's add it.", then 2 weeks later you get people crying and complaining about how pins take up time and they forget their pins. Then you think... "Yeah, maybe add a pin recovery.", then people cry about complain again about how the system's so confusing.

Just KISS, keep it simple s. And you've been doing this for 4? 5? years... so it hasn't worked out, so what have you done about it? Endure???

Observe, change, and adapt.

Great, we are leaning towards the Race card, first, I have seen some filipinos acting better than americans in a server, it is not that "This server's population has X and Y", it's just because annoying players attract more annoyances, and the extra care really doesn't make sense, giving extra care to certain players IS being biased, and what you said about ideas is pretty much common sense...

[Descent]

I can't believe you stuck it out that long, Kisuka. I ran servers for two years and never want to go back, kudos for making it to four.

Especially with the general trend in overall maturity(or immaturity) of RO players these days.

[Mochi]

I think anyone who has owned a server or been a GM (especially those who are in more control of the server) has been in a situation like this before.

As GMs (and especially Owners), the players come to you for everything imaginable and it's only a matter of time before the stress piles up and you explode; because we're all Human (contrary to popular, Player belief... we aren't robots...)

I can't imagine running a server THAT long and not going crazy sooner, I've been Chief GM for about 6 months now and I pull out my hair everyday from just constant stupidity and immaturity that the players throw in my direction.  Granted I'm happy to take the brunt away from our Server Owner but it's still incredibly stressful.

If something goes wrong, they blame it on me; if I punish someone for breaking a rule I become the corrupt, unfair GM.  Yet if I had let them get away with it the same thing.

I was very, VERY hated for a long time because I'm very strict about rules, always enforcing them and punishing anyone whether they were a friend or another GM, but sometimes that's just how it has to be.  Anyway, good luck with whatever you end up doing and even more power to you if you manage to stay out of GMing.

[Zockerking]

There is not much to add to the first posting I guess.

I suggest, you just leave it alone. I wouldn't even bother coding for that server anymore.

Life goes on, hope yours too.

[Furious]

I know how it feels to be in your position. Though I must salute you for not shutting down the server entirely, but instead, passing it on to someone else. It must take a lot to pass on your hard work and dedication to somebody else.

[Nanners]

So...
I dunno if anyone even has heard of Ragnarok Revolution, but it's been around since late 2004.

Well, after 4 years of headaches, stress, etc I have passed management of RRO to someone else.

The reasons I quit:

• Users continued to disrespect me and the GM team after years of service and dedication.
• Calling me a "corrupted GM" when all I have ever done is try to help. Sure I get angry sometimes, but who hasnt? And the only reason I ever got pissed was because of the stress brought on from users.
• Tons of stress brought on from very annoying users that wouldn't follow the rules and continue to produce rumors left and right.

I will continue to dev for eAthena and will continue to provide RRO with scripts and customizations, but I won't be running the show any longer.

What are your opinions of this? What I mean is, what is your opinions of a GM of 4 years leaven his server to someone else due to the users?

Ragnarok Revolution is where I got my start and is where I met some of my best RO friends over the years. Which sadly I have all lost.  You were always a fairly unbiased GM and had to deal with many hackers and corrupted players. I remember the one guy that just about closed the server ddosing it. I left after the second server wipe but all the power too you Kisuka, thank you for giving my friends and I a start into the RO universe. I wonder what happened to Lunchxbox, Shade, Gunny, Escobar, and Nuella/Cotton. I've lost touch with all of them completely.

I remember playing this server when it had 10 actives and watching it grow up to the point in one wipe, because of a certain hacking player and then too another wipe. (another hacking player) This nostalgia is very weird. I got my love for the sniper and sinx classes there and even now I play SinX. Keep your head up man. Looking @ the forums right now. I'm sure Ragnarok Revolution has been through more turbulent times. I hope everything turns out for the best.


(PS you never did give me double the donates that you promised me when you needed money to keep the server up for the month and you never refunded my 2 items that you promised us all when the hacker broke'd the server. lol  )

[Akinari]

Well I'll say you definitely lasted longer than me.  I was only able to run Just-RO for a year and a half before those people drove me up a wall and the money became less and less satisfying as the work and stress piled up.  It just ain't worth it.  I hope I never decide to run a server again.  I would love to become a part of the community and share things, maybe making a bit of profit in the long run, but who knows what I'll end up doing.  I'm much happier without the server.  That's all I can say.