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Author Topic: Avoiding advanced classes to balance a server.  (Read 27256 times)

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Offline Sarin

Re: Avoiding advanced classes to balance a server.
« Reply #15 on: Apr 02, 2009, 02:43 PM »
Hard to speak about no trans=balance. IMO, it's not so much about that...I believe it's more about people gradually learning and getting better at RO. Back at those times I started, people playing RO were totally different...and by today's standards, quite noobish.

If you're thinking about rebalance, you might as well do it a bit bigger. I've put some ideas in other thread you posted...

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Offline horo

Re: Avoiding advanced classes to balance a server.
« Reply #16 on: Apr 02, 2009, 03:33 PM »
Hard to speak about no trans=balance. IMO, it's not so much about that...I believe it's more about people gradually learning and getting better at RO. Back at those times I started, people playing RO were totally different...and by today's standards, quite noobish.

If you're thinking about rebalance, you might as well do it a bit bigger. I've put some ideas in other thread you posted...
Haha, I remember people being quite noobish still around the time the first of us hit 99 on iRO, so you're right about that. I doubt anyone was reading scripts yet at that time.

I've a lot more ideas regarding rebalance in the bag, but I want to post them one by one to keep discussion focused. Definitely not in a rush to get this running before everything is resolved!

Offline Dean Stark

Re: Avoiding advanced classes to balance a server.
« Reply #17 on: Apr 02, 2009, 03:50 PM »
Since you're avoiding advanced classes, are you also gonna avoid extended classes? As in... Oh, I don't know... Gunslingers?? ;D

Offline horo

Re: Avoiding advanced classes to balance a server.
« Reply #18 on: Apr 02, 2009, 04:17 PM »
Since you're avoiding advanced classes, are you also gonna avoid extended classes? As in... Oh, I don't know... Gunslingers?? ;D
Oh absolutely, they would wreck 2nd classes :-\

Offline Johnny Dangerously

Re: Avoiding advanced classes to balance a server.
« Reply #19 on: Apr 04, 2009, 11:58 PM »
trans classes are actually quite balanced, these days.  it took kRO a little bit to fix it but they've done a pretty good job, in WoE anyways.  PVP is absolutely ludicrous, SinXes get ridiculous buffs to SB and the only way to tank lex SB is safety wall, parry, or guard...

but in WoE everything works out pretty well, although it is very burst damage heavy in comparison to old RO.  if you'd like a more "classic style" RO you should consider giving WoE attacks more damage reductions than normal instead of outright removing classes, as that never tends to fare well

Offline Littlechan

Re: Avoiding advanced classes to balance a server.
« Reply #20 on: Apr 05, 2009, 02:44 AM »
trans classes are actually quite balanced, these days.  it took kRO a little bit to fix it but they've done a pretty good job, in WoE anyways.  PVP is absolutely ludicrous, SinXes get ridiculous buffs to SB and the only way to tank lex SB is safety wall, parry, or guard...

but in WoE everything works out pretty well, although it is very burst damage heavy in comparison to old RO.  if you'd like a more "classic style" RO you should consider giving WoE attacks more damage reductions than normal instead of outright removing classes, as that never tends to fare well

wait, don't forget reflect shield ;D

well, how about giving more HP to emperium? ;D ;D


*Thank You very much for Azurene*

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Offline horo

Re: Avoiding advanced classes to balance a server.
« Reply #21 on: Apr 05, 2009, 08:02 AM »
trans classes are actually quite balanced, these days.  it took kRO a little bit to fix it but they've done a pretty good job, in WoE anyways.  PVP is absolutely ludicrous, SinXes get ridiculous buffs to SB and the only way to tank lex SB is safety wall, parry, or guard...

but in WoE everything works out pretty well, although it is very burst damage heavy in comparison to old RO.  if you'd like a more "classic style" RO you should consider giving WoE attacks more damage reductions than normal instead of outright removing classes, as that never tends to fare well
You have to consider that WoE is played on a much smaller scale on most private servers, which changes things up a bit. My goal is definitely to have only 2nd classes, so far I've come up with the following ideas to rebalance these in regards to each other, and make every class being worthwhile to play:

Rogue: gets Preserve.
Dancer/Bard: Can use Ensemble songs on their own, at a considerably increased SP cost.
Alchemist: Fire and Poison Bottle creation will be easened considerably.
Crit builds: Enemy luck will negatively affect player crit by 1 every 10 luck, instead of 5 luck. You can view the discussion about this >here<.

All those headgears in the database but currently unavailable to players will be rebalanced and added to the game to give further opportunity and variance to unorthodox character builds.

Offline Sarin

Re: Avoiding advanced classes to balance a server.
« Reply #22 on: Apr 05, 2009, 08:08 AM »
gotta say NO to ensembles. Especially on notrans server, they are far too powerful. Blasting out Loki will be impossible at low-pop server when you can't use Frenzy or EDP to boost your normal attack to outdamage potspamming vit/dex bard.

Offline LiteX

Re: Avoiding advanced classes to balance a server.
« Reply #23 on: Apr 05, 2009, 08:39 AM »
gotta say NO to ensembles. Especially on notrans server, they are far too powerful. Blasting out Loki will be impossible at low-pop server when you can't use Frenzy or EDP to boost your normal attack to outdamage potspamming vit/dex bard.

Agreed, everyone wants a server that everything is balanced, not that an underrate class becomes the most broken one, I do recommend a asura nerf on MvPs as asura is the most broken skill on a no-tras server
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Offline Sarin

Re: Avoiding advanced classes to balance a server.
« Reply #24 on: Apr 05, 2009, 09:40 AM »
MvP wise, I agree. PvP, not so sure as monk can't reach so high dex so it's easier dodgeable/interruptible.

Offline horo

Re: Avoiding advanced classes to balance a server.
« Reply #25 on: Apr 05, 2009, 12:45 PM »
gotta say NO to ensembles. Especially on notrans server, they are far too powerful. Blasting out Loki will be impossible at low-pop server when you can't use Frenzy or EDP to boost your normal attack to outdamage potspamming vit/dex bard.
I was thinking more about PvM for now... I simply cannot think of a way to make Dancer especially any useful whatsoever otherwise. Maybe just allow certain ensemble skills to be cast solo, or nerf ensemble dances when cast solo? There will be a pot delay, so pot-spamming won't be so viable anymore.

Asura requires great equip to do a good amount of damage for monks, so for now that isn't a big deal. Couldn't take down a Salamander in one shot solo, and Morpheus Set + Abysmal Knight cards are pretty hard to get on a non-trans server to begin with.

Offline Sarin

Re: Avoiding advanced classes to balance a server.
« Reply #26 on: Apr 05, 2009, 03:22 PM »
Actually...I might start dancer on such server. Stats 140 dex, 110 agi, rest vit and maybe a bit luk, and she becomes great mix of support, ranged and melee damager and empbreaker.
You might laugh now, but I actually played gypsy with similar build, and scored quite a few kills and empbreaks with melee attack. Trust me, when done properly, it hurts.

Offline horo

Re: Avoiding advanced classes to balance a server.
« Reply #27 on: Apr 05, 2009, 04:11 PM »
Actually...I might start dancer on such server. Stats 140 dex, 110 agi, rest vit and maybe a bit luk, and she becomes great mix of support, ranged and melee damager and empbreaker.
You might laugh now, but I actually played gypsy with similar build, and scored quite a few kills and empbreaks with melee attack. Trust me, when done properly, it hurts.
I'm a big fan of the class also, especially of Arrow Vulcan Gypsies which can hit about 25k damage max solo iirc. They have a few interesting whips, too.

Another question that I'd rather have in its own thread, but it might get enough responses here: So I went through all of the advanced class only equips and ok'ed most of them (some on the basis that they won't drop, like beelze/satan morroc drops), but I'm left with a few:

Item ID# 2528 (Wool_Scarf) – 0.1% banshee drop
Item ID# 2424 (Tidal_Shoes) – 0.15% ragged zombie drop
Set Bonus: hp rec +5%, max hp +10%.
Should I lower the drop`chance on this, take away the setbonus, or reduce it to +5% max hp? It’s just far too good a combo on its own, invalidating all other equip choices.

Item ID# 2115 (Valkyrja's_Shield) – 5% valkyrie drop
Even without advanced classes, these are a pushover and the shield is just so damn good that noone will wear anything else. People will have +7 valk shields in no time…should I lower the drop on this, or reduce the resistances, I’m not sure.

Item ID# 2114 (Stone_Buckler) – 0.5% acidus drop
The set this is part of is just too good for Knights to wear anything else ever, taking away a lot of variety.

Item ID# 2364 (Meteo_Plate_Armor) – 0.2% salamander drop
Same defense as slotted full plate but considerably easier to get, equipable by merchants classes also and with great resists on top – should I lower the droprate, or the base defense?

Item ID# 1626 (Piercing_Staff) – 0.1% kasa drop
Item ID# 1624 (Lich_Bone_Wand) – 0.2% necromancer drop
By far the best staffs in game: Ridiculous matk, making carded rods, arc wands, and bone wand look like crap. Lich’s bone wand especially might be the most overpowered weapon besides ice pick in the game. I really don’t know what to do with the latter especially, as even at 0.01% dropchance it seems too good.


Any ideas for these would be highly appreciated!


Offline Sarin

Re: Avoiding advanced classes to balance a server.
« Reply #28 on: Apr 05, 2009, 04:29 PM »
Wools+tidals. I wouldn't include these at all. This is meant for trans classes, to counter the massive DPS increase they get.
Valk Shield. Possible to get even without trans, but much harder. I'd reduce def to 0 so people will have to choose between elemental and physical protection.
Stone Buck. I actually haven't seen this combo much in action lately. People more prefer F.Beret as top headgear. And such server is gonna be alot about reductions cause of pot delay.
Meteor. Good luck getting enough to match +7 full plate. Possible, but I doubt there will be enough for quarter of server pop, making +7 full plate more used for swordsman classes.
Staff of piercing. Well well...this is yet again counter to people getting high mdef stuff and making special mdef sets. Is is possible to get stuff like Frigg's circlet? Then allow people to use it.
Lich wand: whew. That is indeed overpowered for nontrans chars.

I'll go through some advanced stuff myself when I have time and post my opinions. Your server concept seems...interesting, and might be worth checking out.

Offline A92FL0163

Re: Avoiding advanced classes to balance a server.
« Reply #29 on: Apr 05, 2009, 05:01 PM »
Emsembles should be modified, specially the strong ones, of course, making them solo means a bigger SP needed (Like of both, 10 SP per sec?), and a nerf, like, Loki Emsemble should instead of removing the cast of spells, give a slow cast effect along with higher sp cost, only, so people can still survive the precast.

Oh, also, a question that might make me want to join your server, will the WoE SE Castles be open?!