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Offline DarkDevine

Re: A reposted idea, rate my point of view
« Reply #15 on: Sep 19, 2016, 09:37 AM »
The other guy thinks official stuff only is the way to go, when clearly it hasn't been working out ever since Renewal came along.

Tell me where I said Renewal is the way to go.

Quoting myself

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Check out the new content and watch how Gravity still didn't lose the love for this game (Only the right path, as they'd really want to be like Blizzard lol)


Take a look around and realize something: The only servers actually having players are those that kept it simple and original.


I am basing off on Pre-Renewal, that is the starting point in any case, I didn't think I have to point that out.

More than that, Renewal-content generally is actually pretty amazing. Look at all the sprites, maps, dungeons and items that Pre-Renewal will never get to see.
But it's probably better going Pre-Renewal and installing 5.000 cust0mz instead of using existing content, right?


Look, I don't know for how long you're here and in eA/rA/Herc communities in general, but people like him come and go, on a daily base. Everyone has the formular for the _perfect_ server out there, everyone knows what RO needs. This goes on for years now, we had Pokemon RO, we had Dragonball RO, we had ROs that mixed classes up, we had ROs that completely changed mechanics, we had ROs that made a completely different game out of it (Remember stuff like Seventh Sanctum? I do).
They all have something in common: They never had a real good amount of players.

None of them.
Why? Because it was simply not was it used to be. That's why Renewal failed. It wasn't RO anymore

People logged in, people tried to follow their habits, everything was different, they were lost, they left.


Let me get into detail with his post so that you understand (maybe).

the game is too old and we already know it too well, nothing surpise us, every class has a defined build for PVM and MVP and mobs are just too well known.

Yeah, right, because Renewal changed all spawn locations and build options and it was good, right?


- Focus: These changes are focused for casual and harcore players that don't demand affinity to the official view of the game. Thus, it's focused on people without too much time that still wants to play this game, but also considers the long run aspects of the game, so players don't get bored without anything more to do.

You know the biggest problem for any game is finding a good balance between casual players and grinding players.
For one, the casual players want to be able to reach what the hardcore players reach, without them getting frustrated.
For the other, the hardcore players want to be rewarded for hardcore playing, that's the reason why they do it.

You either have a focus on the first or on the second. With anything else you're either forcing casual into hardcore or hardcore into casual.

- Geography: As european, I would focus this server for american/european population. I find the east USA coast the perfect location for the western population.

Yup, very great idea as most Ragnarok Online players right now come from phillipines, taiwan, malaysia and singapore.


Boring as hell [...] and 10x as card drop

"Boring as hell". Now that's a reason! Guess what, grinding is always boring. It's supposed to be boring, that's what makes it grinding.

10x card drop? That's high-rate for many older players.
You can basically take Fly Wings out of the game at that exact same moment, as everyone will have a Creamy Card anyways.

Also notice (I don't know if you thought about it) that this will hurt the economy. Card prices will be much lower and the "zeny sinks" you've mentioned below switch from cards and equipment over to random stuff that costs zeny everywhere.

- Seed of fortune [...]

Just another kind of "Auto-Event".

- Donation policy: Absolutely no pay 2 win. Cosmetics maybe, but only if the server costs are greater than expected, nowadays it's quite cheap.

Yeah, yeah. We all do that already. We all learned from RIOT games.

- Equipment: As for seed of fortune, it would make everybody able to obtain the desired equipment for PVM or WoE rather easily. However, in contrast refinement chances would be downgraded, so high end equipment would still be hard to get.

That's simply a required consequence through increased drop rates. You're basically shifting the problem from grinding-frustration to upgrade-frustration.

- Classes: For the sake of making it simple and because I consider 2-2 classes more fun than trans I would focus this to 2-2 classes only.

Let me make this clear. With 2-2 classes you mean 2-classes, as 2-1 is e.g. the Knight and 2-2 is e.g. the Crusader. Sounds like you know a lot about it.
It's proven that Third Classes are broken and EP9 is Rebirth, so nothing new here.
Look at Sarah Server, they go Classic all the way. Maybe you'd be better off playing there for a bit.

- Environment: The idea is offering the stock, classic like world we all know from episode 9, to further update it with newer but altered maps, like Odin Temple, Lighthalzen, Abyss Dungeon, etc but with changes suitables for 2-2 classes.

Like, nerfing? Since nothing else would improve this experience for 2-classes.

- Updates: Further updates with new content like the already mentioned for the environment, but also offer some new classes like Soul Link or Ninja - btw, I plan on making the Soul Linker also a PVP/WoE offensive attacker, but of course, changing mechanics so it's not overpowered for 2-2 classes.

The twist with the Soul Linker is that it usually can't skill Soul Links for all classes. Soul Linkers can, however, make a great difference in PvP/PvM as supportive characters while in PvM they even do useful damage (but has to drop on amount of Soul Links available)

Remove the Skill-Resetter and you have a reason for everyone to make multiple Soul Linkers.

What is next, make Blessing deal damage so the Priest doesn't lack on battle mechanics?

http://pastebin.com/raw/HQmxx4KZ

What I see here is:
- Remove Trap is made useless
- Critical Firebolt on a Stone Cursed target and you got your Asura Strike back
- Priest-armies with Warp Portals to any MvP. The twist is, that you take time to get to the maps, that's why everyone got a chance. Have one person with a priest-army available and he will dominate the MvP spawns
- Combo Monk is becoming a no-brainer. Why would you remove the combo-requirements?
- 120s Asura Strike CD? Good job on disabling a complete Monk build. It's not that a Monk can simply _choose_ if he uses Combos or Asura Strike now, it's either Combo or Asura, they are two completely different builds (e.g. Combo Monk has AGI, Asura Strike Monks don't)
- Musical Strike will be the new DS. Notice that you can use it with Instruments only. You won't have Trans, so there's no arrow vulcan. The only viable reason to even switch to the instrument is to play songs. Playing songs, using Musical Strike would simply be an SP waste, in either way.
- Way to make Alchemists overpowered
- Yeah right, f*** Sin and Rogue. Flee is basically the only thing that keeps them alive, it what defines the Thief classes.
- Soul Link + SB changes = Sin can Asura Strike, too now
- You're reverting Backstab to its roots (Which is a good thing, but nothing new, it was like that in Classic)

The rest reads like "I have to do some changes, so what can I change" rather than "What exactly are the problems of these skills".

You're doing nothing more than shifting problems over to other problems. You fix one problem and create 4 others.
Welcome to the world of balancing.


- Woe changes: Magic deals 50%, ranged physical deals 60%, melee deals 65%. Special focus on making low-vit builds viable.

People will still go VIT, as it also increases Potion effectiveness, just saying.

- Economy: Zeny should be stricty controlled. Zeny sinks like healer, partial job resets, name changes, etc should encourage spending money on NPC. Also, costumes and mounts would be available with a zeny fee.

Zeny sinks are always a good idea, but this is nothing new.

- Globalization: Every city is usable with a warper, kafra and an adapted inn NPC. The Role playing style should be left intact.

There is no role-playing in "Everyone is sitting AFK in Maintown because they can warp to any place anyways".


Please don't be harsh, I know it's too much text, so I doubt anybody would read it all.
Excuse my English.


Sorry for being harsh, I am not able to express this all in a friendlier way as I lack emoji-usage. I've read it all.
But this is what I think.
« Last Edit: Sep 19, 2016, 09:46 AM by DarkDevine »
TotalRO - 10x/10x

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Offline Suspension

Re: A reposted idea, rate my point of view
« Reply #16 on: Sep 19, 2016, 10:14 AM »
Woah, so much hate. Well:

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Yeah, right, because Renewal changed all spawn locations and build options and it was good, right?

Except Renewal is so different it's no longer the game we are used to. My changes are very light.

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For one, the casual players want to be able to reach what the hardcore players reach, without them getting frustrated.
For the other, the hardcore players want to be rewarded for hardcore playing, that's the reason why they do it.

That's why some changes make it easier to get equipment, while another change makes it harder to have high end equipment. As it's now, casual players can't rival harcore players at the most basic level - for example, a simple thara frog card does a huge difference, and with low rate drops it's still hard to get for a casual player.

A casual player would never be able to have the same performance as a hardcore, but the gap can be smaller.

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Yup, very great idea as most Ragnarok Online players right now come from phillipines, taiwan, malaysia and singapore.

Yes, it's a great idea because I'm not asian and I want to play this as well. There are not many classic servers for euro/american players, so I want to play one with these changes.

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10x card drop? That's high-rate for many older players.
You can basically take Fly Wings out of the game at that exact same moment, as everyone will have a Creamy Card anyways.

I don't find everyone having low level cards a bad thing. Soon or later they'll have it, why make players spend hours and hours killing boring low level mobs for something that they'll eventually get?

Thara frog example: It doesn't matter if you have 30 thara frog cards or 1, you can only equip one, and having more doesn't make you better in the game.

Quote
Just another kind of "Auto-Event".

Except it's not an event. It's designed to increase grinding proficiency while playing the game instead of directly increasing rates.

Quote
Yeah, yeah. We all do that already. We all learned from RIOT games.

Condescending non-sense.

Quote
That's simply a required consequence through increased drop rates. You're basically shifting the problem from grinding-frustration to upgrade-frustration.

Except it's not the same level of frustration. The frustration you have killing 5000 mobs of the same low level monster for not getting a thara frog card is not the same frustration as breaking 10 +6 shields for not even a point of defense.

Quote
Look at Sarah Server, they go Classic all the way. Maybe you'd be better off playing there for a bit.

Take a look yourself and check the bottom of the first post.

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Like, nerfing? Since nothing else would improve this experience for 2-classes.

Well yes?

Quote
The twist with the Soul Linker is that it usually can't skill Soul Links for all classes. Soul Linkers can, however, make a great difference in PvP/PvM as supportive characters while in PvM they even do useful damage (but has to drop on amount of Soul Links available)

Remove the Skill-Resetter and you have a reason for everyone to make multiple Soul Linkers.

What is next, make Blessing deal damage so the Priest doesn't lack on battle mechanics?

This is such non sense I can't even reply to it. Hint: Blessing doesn't damage monsters, Linkers do. Enabling it on PVP is a nice addition for magic characters entusiasts.

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What I see here is:
- Remove Trap is made useless
False. There are too many situations when you can't move traps. So Remove trap is still needed.
Quote
- Critical Firebolt on a Stone Cursed target and you got your Asura Strike back
Critical means it ignores defense, in this case, magic defense. I never had more than 20 mdef in my pre-trans characters and Firebolt never did much. Don't bluff.
Quote
- Priest-armies with Warp Portals to any MvP. The twist is, that you take time to get to the maps, that's why everyone got a chance. Have one person with a priest-army available and he will dominate the MvP spawns
As already in the document: non-mini/BOSS field map.

Quote
- Combo Monk is becoming a no-brainer. Why would you remove the combo-requirements?
No-brainer? The other way around. Now is like "LET'S SPAM KEYS UNTIL THE COMBO GOES OUT". With changes it's like: "Should I try to kill it with combo skills as soon as possible or wait until the triple combo activates to maximize damage".
Quote
- 120s Asura Strike CD? Good job on disabling a complete Monk build. It's not that a Monk can simply _choose_ if he uses Combos or Asura Strike now, it's either Combo or Asura, they are two completely different builds (e.g. Combo Monk has AGI, Asura Strike Monks don't)
As I already said, Asura is not a build. And you seem to have not much knowledge of the game, there's something called combo-asura. Pretty neat, check about it.
Quote
- Musical Strike will be the new DS. Notice that you can use it with Instruments only. You won't have Trans, so there's no arrow vulcan. The only viable reason to even switch to the instrument is to play songs. Playing songs, using Musical Strike would simply be an SP waste, in either way.
Except it has casting time.
Quote
- Way to make Alchemists overpowered
More like way to make Alchemist do damage according to the requirements of their skills.
Quote
- Yeah right, f*** Sin and Rogue. Flee is basically the only thing that keeps them alive, it what defines the Thief classes.
Yeah, 10 flee is such a difference they can't stay alive. Not like those agi classes without any skill that adds flee.
Quote
- Soul Link + SB changes = Sin can Asura Strike, too now
Do some math before calling everything the new asura strike. Also, if soul link is implemented, its skills would need some modifications too.
Quote
- You're reverting Backstab to its roots (Which is a good thing, but nothing new, it was like that in Classic)
Yep, thanks I guess.

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The rest reads like "I have to do some changes, so what can I change" rather than "What exactly are the problems of these skills".

You're doing nothing more than shifting problems over to other problems. You fix one problem and create 4 others.
Welcome to the world of balancing.

Except those problems are just your bad math skills.

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People will still go VIT, as it also increases Potion effectiveness, just saying.

Nothing against it, the main problem with the vit-less builds is stun.

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There is no role-playing in "Everyone is sitting AFK in Maintown because they can warp to any place anyways".

You missed the point of that comment. It's not about enabling any kind of NPC in all cities, but the required NPC to have a suitable sprite and location according to the city, to make it look better integrated instead of a bunch of npcs with all you need in the middle of the city.

--------------------------------------

Oh shit. Blinzer might just be the guy you have been dreaming for, waiting for, and hoping for all this time.

I checked his forum and, well, there are just too many arbietrary changes I don't really get. Also, so many mechanics are being modified it's just another Renewal. So I guess I don't share his point of view.

-----------------------------

@Snowblind

Quote
Imo, depth comes from an opportunity for counterplay. Maybe it's possible to create build diversity in such a way that you need to actively try to figure out an opponent's build and react accordingly. But that doesn't really happen in vanilla RO, so it would require drastic rather than light changes. That's why I'd prefer to give every class unlimited skill points, for a start - more opportunities to adapt instead of using only a single skill which your build dictates.

If you're talking about woe, then I guess you're thinking about roster diversity. To be honest, WoE is a lost cause for me because there is always so little room for adapting in the middle of a fight. Your changes might allow more classes into WoE, but imo it comes at too great a cost. Nobody likes to get nerfed.

I think these light changes, at least, makes it way better than in Vanilla RO. Heavy changes would just make it a different game.

I agree nobody likes to get nerfed, in fact I always had in mind what would happen with snap-asura builds, which are the most difficult ones to level up, but still I really think it's needed for the sake of variety. Also, they could always go combo-asura and still have Snap.

Bowling Bash: I played in a pre-trans server with ep. 9 mechanics, and I didn't find Knight extremelly powerful, think they are still based on cast time and aspd.

Traps: The purpose is to use traps offensively, like in PVP. Some traps would be modified, like Blast Mine, to do great damage to individuals. I think it would be quite cool to see a Hunter playing with them against other players in WoE/GvG

Pots and such: It would be nice, at least with cast time like someone suggested me once. Poison needs a bit more love.

Level 95: What can I say, that's intended! Otherwise there would be no reason to implement newer and harder dungeons.


-------------------------------

Anyway all these changes are just thing I got in mind, of course some will be wrong or unabalanced, would need some testing first :)

« Last Edit: Sep 19, 2016, 11:04 AM by Suspension »
If you think casting quag is a good idea you or your guild heavily failed to create a viable guild rost.

Offline snowblind

Re: A reposted idea, rate my point of view
« Reply #17 on: Sep 19, 2016, 10:51 AM »
Tell me where I said Renewal is the way to go.
I'm talking about Pre-re. Ever since Renewal, players who choose pre-re get bored easily because it's old.

Take a look around and realize something: The only servers actually having players are those that kept it simple and original.
And they all fall into a downward spiral due to boredom and den dey die. Except Talon, which has lots of customs and lots of players. How come?

Look, I don't know for how long you're here and in eA/rA/Herc communities in general, but people like him come and go, on a daily base. Everyone has the formular for the _perfect_ server out there, everyone knows what RO needs.
And obviously you do too. Why so hostile?

Offline DarkDevine

Re: A reposted idea, rate my point of view
« Reply #18 on: Sep 19, 2016, 11:02 AM »
Well, now we're getting a discussion up in here. Thanks for the detailed answer.

Don't see this as hate, I may sound grumpy in my views, but I am doing this s*** for over 10 years now and you might guess, I've already heard it all and seen it all and I'm simply mostly tired of it.


Except Renewal is so different it's no longer the game we are used to. My changes are very light.

That's what you think. But it seems you're not able to grasp the actual consequences in the long run.

Let me get something right first: It's respectable that someone sits down and has ideas, writes them down and tries to change stuff. Kudos to you for that.

The reason why I am "hating" on you here is because I neither think it's the holy grail nor I think it would do any good to the RO community. Right now your concept is simply just another server.

If it wouldn't be for this, heck, I'd go and make my own server, with blackjack and hookers. Not that I lack the competence, I am probably one of the most competent scripters and source editors around here.

The only reason why I don't do it: I don't want to make just another server. Because I don't think I got the absolute safe plan to rescue RO right now. I'm working on it, but I'm not quite there yet.


That's why some changes make it easier to get equipment, while another change makes it harder to have high end equipment. As it's now, casual players can't rival harcore players at the most basic level - for example, a simple thara frog card does a huge difference, and with low rate drops it's still hard to get for a casual player.

A casual player would never be able to have the same performance as a hardcore, but the gap can be smaller.

So, let me correct my point then. You're shifting frustration from casual players to non-casuals. The first group has it easier than before while the latter has it harder than before. Now answer me this: Where is this reducing the gap between casuals and non-casuals? It's simply shifting it to a later point in the game.

I feel this is a change for the sake of change, not because it would actually result in something good.

Yes, it's a great idea because I'm not asian and I want to play this as well.

This wasn't about what kind of players you'd prefer on your server, this was about reality. Sure, having your main language to english is the way to go, but what other kind of focus would you want to have? Most servers enforce english already.

As for servers like Sarah Server, they have proxies for most regions in this world that actually work really well. You don't feel that it's a phillipine hoster.

What I want to tell you is: Don't state the obvious. Especially not if it sounds racist. Asian players have the same worth as american or european ones.


I don't find everyone having low level cards a bad thing. Soon or later they'll have it, why make players spend hours and hours killing boring low level mobs for something that they'll eventually get?

Thara frog example: It doesn't matter if you have 30 thara frog cards or 1, you can only equip one, and having more doesn't make you better in the game.

RO knows no "low-level cards". There are cards of high-level monsters that suck balls and cards of low-level monsters that you wear at higher levels just as well.

The thing with your 30 thara frog cards is simply that a Thara Frog card won't be worth s***. On a real low-rate, you can be happy if you dropped a card a second time as you can sell it for high prices and make a fortune. This has a really positive impact on economy, as it's rewarding for players to find a card at all and you have a zeny sink for players that have too much money.

Except it's not an event. It's designed to increase grinding proficiency while playing the game instead of directly increasing rates.

You don't call it auto-event, but in essence, it is one.

Condescending non-sense.

Again: Don't state the obvious. It's simply nothing special.

Except it's not the same level of frustration. The frustration you have killing 5000 mobs of the same low level monster for not getting a thara frog card is not the same frustration as breaking 10 +6 shields for not even a point of defense.

Because...these items...come from nowhere? You still have to farm these items. You farm them faster, but they also break faster. Moving the problem, not solving it.

Take a look yourself and check the bottom of the first post.

I did, what was I supposed to see?

Well yes?

Write: "Dumbing it down".


This is such non sense I can't even reply to it. Hint: Blessing doesn't damage monsters, Linkers do. Enabling it on PVP is a nice addition for magic characters entusiasts.

First off, Blessing can indeed be used in PvM, it lowers STR, DEX and INT of undead monsters. Did you ever step back and asked yourself why Gravity disabled it in WoE/PvP? Yeah right, probably because they weren't able to lower its damage.

No, it was to move the focus of the Soul Linker to soul linking. There is no need for another mage class, Soul Linkers are already pretty viable and people love them. In your case you will have Soul Linkers that are simply not loved, as they run around and Esma the s*** ouf of stuff instead of doing what they are supposed to do.


False. There are too many situations when you can't move traps. So Remove trap is still needed.

What's more important is: Remove Trap is already there.

Critical means it ignores defense, in this case, magic defense. I never had more than 20 mdef in my pre-trans characters and Firebolt never did much. Don't bluff.

Stone-Curse/Firebolt or Frost Diver/Lightning Bolt kills a lot of classes almost instantly on a halfway good mage. VIT only increases the amount of health to take down in this case.
Also note, the only characters that have much MDEF are Priests, Mages, maybe Ninjas, some SLs and quite a few Palas maybe.

Tell me another thing: Why?
What exactly is the advantage of this, what exactly would that change, why is it needed and what makes you so sure that you thought of every little side-effect it has?


As already in the document: non-mini/BOSS field map.
Mis-read that. My fault. I thought you're going to enable it on Boss-Maps.


No-brainer? The other way around. Now is like "LET'S SPAM KEYS UNTIL THE COMBO GOES OUT". Now it's like: "Should I try to kill it with combo skills as soon as possible or wait until the combo to maximize damage".

Which combo monk spams keys until the combos come out? What sense would be there in that?
Exactly that is the important thing on a combo monk, having the ability to time your skills correctly to actually get your full combo out which makes the difference in playing it.


As I already said, Asura is not a build. And you seem to have not much knowledge of the game, there's something called combo-asura. Pretty neat, check about it.

Yup, just started playing.
Do you even get what you're saying?

A Combo-Asura Monk is nothing half, nothing full. It's a Monk that can utilize Asura Strike for higher damage and levels faster through flee. It can't be used on WoE in any case, as it doesn't have enough Asura damage to take anything down that hase the most basic reduction cards in and it won't be able to put anything into VIT as it needs to keep AGI, INT, STR and DEX on a decent level.

What the f*** are you basing your Combo-Asura-Monk on? It's something you play for fun and it's absolutely PvM based.

Except it has casting time.

Sure, that makes any of my points invalid.


More like way to make Alchemist do damage according to the requirements of their skills.

Like...the alchemist doesn't have Potion Pitcher and CP.


Yeah, 10 flee is such a difference they can't stay alive. Not like those agi classes without any skill that adds flee.

Then why remove it?


Do some math before calling everything the new asura strike. Also, if soul link is implemented, its skills would need some modifications too.

Ahh, good, since these "Soul Link Modifications" weren't in your big list of Skill Changes. Did you come up with that just now? Way to prove my arguments right.


Except those problems are just your bad math skills.

Ah yes, that's probably the reason.


Nothing against it, the main problem with the vit-less builds is stun.

Again: Then why focus on low-vit. Everyone will require VIT, no guild will let you take part in WoE without VIT as you're basically just cannon fodder, in any case.

You missed the point of that comment. It's not about enabling any kind of NPC in all cities, but the required NPC to have a suitable sprite and location according to the city, to make it look better integrated instead of a bunch of npcs with all you need in the middle of the city.

Alright, I missed the point in this case.


Anyway all these changes are just thing I got in mind, of course some will be wrong or unabalanced, would need some testing first :)

I tell you, get away from wanting to change RO, rather focus on improving it. The small things, the details.

You're dedicating all that work into your plans, but honestly, you can't really calculate the total outcome of most of these changes. Especially stuff like that magic damage crit etc. are probably more toxic than they do any good. Magic already does really efficient damage in this game, there is simply no need for a change like this.

Don't change things for the sake of change.
TotalRO - 10x/10x

Offline DarkDevine

Re: A reposted idea, rate my point of view
« Reply #19 on: Sep 19, 2016, 11:10 AM »
I'm talking about Pre-re. Ever since Renewal, players who choose pre-re get bored easily because it's old.
And they all fall into a downward spiral due to boredom and den dey die. Except Talon, which has lots of customs and lots of players. How come?
And obviously you do too. Why so hostile?

Well, as far as I am concerned the best visited server that currently exists is Sarah Server, which runs at EP5.
What's your point?

What I was saying is, most people playing Pre-RE don't even know all the content it has to offer. They don't need to do Biolabs or Amatsu Dungeon quests, as they have warpers to go there. There is a s*** of content in RO that simply has to be put in the correct light for people to be able to grasp and enjoy it.

But what everyone else is doing is simply throwing more stuff onto that big pile of unseen content.
TotalRO - 10x/10x

Offline Chojiro

Re: A reposted idea, rate my point of view
« Reply #20 on: Sep 19, 2016, 11:38 AM »
A fresh meta is what the game needs. The game needs to change while still being relatively familiar. 2-2 onwards skills are flat out badly designed and revamping the stat system or equips isn't as good of an option. 2-2 resulted on more emphasis on more party setups. Does anyone want unnecessary emphasis on teamplay? It's not a matter of 'Oh, I devo you, now you won't die'. You get 'it's faster with bragi' and then soon after comes 'bragi makes this better, we don't like anything else'. I mean a group of people already require teamplay to get anything achieved.

On 'GGro' there were many people who enjoyed playing Knight because it actually had an impact. If you feel your character has an impact, the game becomes much more enjoyable. Suddenly a bunch of people had more fun than they'd had in RO in a long time. Practically nobody wants to play Blacksmith to repair or Alch to cp. Blacksmith is relegated to support? That person peaces out after 2 WoEs. People want to hit others and laugh at others. Stalker was a popular class, which ultimately ended up being thrown aside because of s*** server owners.

beep beep

Offline snowblind

Re: A reposted idea, rate my point of view
« Reply #21 on: Sep 19, 2016, 11:57 AM »
Well, as far as I am concerned the best visited server that currently exists is Sarah Server, which runs at EP5.
What's your point?
A quick search tells me they just launched this year, and apparently they have a history of opening and closing servers. So there is no reason to think it's going to be any different this time. My point is that servers without customs are short-lived. I really don't think it comes down to management in all cases. It's the gameplay that people care about.

What I was saying is, most people playing Pre-RE don't even know all the content it has to offer. They don't need to do Biolabs or Amatsu Dungeon quests, as they have warpers to go there. There is a s*** of content in RO that simply has to be put in the correct light for people to be able to grasp and enjoy it.

But what everyone else is doing is simply throwing more stuff onto that big pile of unseen content.
What's so special about Biolabs and Amatsu quests? I'm sure most people have done them at some point. And you said it yourself: most players don't even read quest texts. I agree that existing content should get more love. But I don't think it's enough. There are so many dungeons that never get visited, but in the end they all have very similar mobs which makes them uninteresting in the long term.

A fresh meta is what the game needs. The game needs to change while still being relatively familiar.
Agreed. But it seems impossible to properly advertise this and gain interest.

Offline Suspension

Re: A reposted idea, rate my point of view
« Reply #22 on: Sep 19, 2016, 12:23 PM »
Now I find you are just excusing yourself with bad arguments, let's see:

- There would be a process of testing, this is just a draft. Things can change, things can get fixed if it's bad. Gravity did it already multiple times, nobody is perfect.

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So, let me correct my point then. You're shifting frustration from casual players to non-casuals. The first group has it easier than before while the latter has it harder than before. Now answer me this: Where is this reducing the gap between casuals and non-casuals? It's simply shifting it to a later point in the game.

No. Refinement will be harder, but getting equipment will be easier, in the end it's just the same level of frustration.

It reduces the gap because the benefit of advantage of refining is not in the same level as equipment vs naked.

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This wasn't about what kind of players you'd prefer on your server, this was about reality. Sure, having your main language to english is the way to go, but what other kind of focus would you want to have? Most servers enforce english already.

As for servers like Sarah Server, they have proxies for most regions in this world that actually work really well. You don't feel that it's a phillipine hoster.

What I want to tell you is: Don't state the obvious. Especially not if it sounds racist. Asian players have the same worth as american or european ones.

You are the one that wanna make it sound racist. Proxies are not godlike solutions and it's my preference to catter to a western community, just respect it?

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RO knows no "low-level cards". There are cards of high-level monsters that suck balls and cards of low-level monsters that you wear at higher levels just as well.

The thing with your 30 thara frog cards is simply that a Thara Frog card won't be worth s***. On a real low-rate, you can be happy if you dropped a card a second time as you can sell it for high prices and make a fortune. This has a really positive impact on economy, as it's rewarding for players to find a card at all and you have a zeny sink for players that have too much money.

With low level card I mean a card dropped by a low level monster. Expensive cards it not what I would call good economy, it increases the gap between old players and newcomers. A zeny sink for players with too much money is useless, it just moves the money from one player to another player.

A good economy is one where goods are abundant and accesible by the majority.

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You don't call it auto-event, but in essence, it is one.

Then awakening potion is an auto-event too.

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Again: Don't state the obvious. It's simply nothing special.

I never said it was something special, you just need something to bash, I guess.

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Because...these items...come from nowhere? You still have to farm these items. You farm them faster, but they also break faster. Moving the problem, not solving it.

Ehm... that's the aim? I wanna make it easier to get equipment but not high refinement.

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I did, what was I supposed to see?

I'll quote it for you, I guess:

These changes are meant to be the opposite of current, classic servers focused on a "pure" episode 8.2 environment.

Sarah has 8.2 mechanics. If you can't guess, I hate those mechanics.

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Write: "Dumbing it down".

Write: Monsters from recent episodes need to make less damage and be fewer in numbers because their stats and their spawn were designed for transceded characters capability.

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as they run around and Esma the s*** ouf of stuff instead of doing what they are supposed to do.

That's exactly the problem of the current meta, characters have no variety because people think "they should do what they are supposed to do".

I wanna make players do whatever they want with their characters, and perform well with it. Thanks for the clear example.

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What's more important is: Remove Trap is already there.

You just badly assumed the reason for moving traps. Maybe you didn't played much Hunter, but the focus of this change is to make Hunters more diverse offensively, to being able to attack with traps in woe, not to be easier to remove them. In fact I think I would make it so only the owner of the trap can move it - in the process, spring trap would have a bigger impact.
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Tell me another thing: Why?
What exactly is the advantage of this, what exactly would that change, why is it needed and what makes you so sure that you thought of every little side-effect it has?

Because I thought it would be fun to have something unexpected. Or, maybe some new builds would be developed, like crit-mage. I just wanna see weird s***.

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Which combo monk spams keys until the combos come out? What sense would be there in that?
Exactly that is the important thing on a combo monk, having the ability to time your skills correctly to actually get your full combo out which makes the difference in playing it.

Until recently there was a bug in emulators where the delay of the triple attack was so short it was impossible to make quadruple work unless spamming it.

I don't see any ability on pushing two keys after the triple attack effect appears. My change gives more variety, don't agree with me if you don't like it, and also fixes a problem: sometimes the triple attack never happens.

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Asura [...]

What the f*** are you basing your Combo-Asura-Monk on? It's something you play for fun and it's absolutely PvM based.

That's exactly the purpose of these changes: Making what is supposed to be only for PVM (like combo monks) good for other areas.

Also, combo-asura has no cast, so dex doesn't need to be as high as for a Spirit Monk. Sure, the damage might not be as high as a Asura caster, but then you have dealt damage with combos too.

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Sure, that makes any of my points invalid.

In fact it does.

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Like...the alchemist doesn't have Potion Pitcher and CP.

I didn't new Potion Pitcher and CP do damage.

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Then why remove it?

Because, why is it upgraded for second jobs? Also, pvp.

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Ahh, good, since these "Soul Link Modifications" weren't in your big list of Skill Changes. Did you come up with that just now? Way to prove my arguments right.

Wow, so butthurt. Well:
Further updates with new content like the already mentioned for the environment, but also offer some new classes like Soul Link or Ninja - btw, I plan on making the Soul Linker also a PVP/WoE offensive attacker, but of course, changing mechanics so it's not overpowered for 2-2 classes.
It's not on the list, as no skill of Soul Linker is, because that would be reviewed later if I ever decide to include Soul Linker in the game.

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Ah yes, that's probably the reason.

When you just exaggerate results, yes.

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Again: Then why focus on low-vit. Everyone will require VIT, no guild will let you take part in WoE without VIT as you're basically just cannon fodder, in any case.

Everyone will require vit, just not as much as currently because overpowered stun skills are being nerfed.

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I tell you, get away from wanting to change RO, rather focus on improving it. The small things, the details.

You're dedicating all that work into your plans, but honestly, you can't really calculate the total outcome of most of these changes. Especially stuff like that magic damage crit etc. are probably more toxic than they do any good. Magic already does really efficient damage in this game, there is simply no need for a change like this.

Don't change things for the sake of change.

Again, condescending non-sense. I change things for the sake of making the game more enjoyable.

You may not hatin', but you surelly try too hard to missrepresent statements to talk highly and trying to humilliate with ignorance. Just drop it, you are not omniscient either.

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And Chojiro gets the point of it all. Noone could have said it better.
If you think casting quag is a good idea you or your guild heavily failed to create a viable guild rost.

Offline DarkDevine

Re: A reposted idea, rate my point of view
« Reply #23 on: Sep 19, 2016, 05:00 PM »
I just wanna see weird s***.

Sounds like a solid plan.

It doesn't matter as we simply have different views on it, there won't be a point where you'd agree with me or vice versa.

Do your thing and have a look at the outcome.
TotalRO - 10x/10x

Offline Suspension

Re: A reposted idea, rate my point of view
« Reply #24 on: Sep 19, 2016, 05:11 PM »
Do your thing and have a look at the outcome.

If I ever have the chance.
If you think casting quag is a good idea you or your guild heavily failed to create a viable guild rost.

Offline Zinnia

Re: A reposted idea, rate my point of view
« Reply #25 on: Sep 24, 2016, 01:29 PM »
Always the same debate

What makes people play a Ragnarok server is the Essence of RO. What you have to change isn't the game itself, it's the player retention mechanics that make players stay on your server.
Changing the essence of RO: i.e the skills, the items, the monsters, is just gonna leave you with a 20 people server.

Offline snowblind

Re: A reposted idea, rate my point of view
« Reply #26 on: Sep 24, 2016, 02:54 PM »
Always the same debate

What makes people play a Ragnarok server is the Essence of RO. What you have to change isn't the game itself, it's the player retention mechanics that make players stay on your server.
Changing the essence of RO: i.e the skills, the items, the monsters, is just gonna leave you with a 20 people server.
Player retention mechanics. Awesome. And how do you plan to achieve that? Also, your statement is proven wrong by servers like talonro, as well as some long-loved highrates (blackoutRO?)

Offline Suspension

Re: A reposted idea, rate my point of view
« Reply #27 on: Sep 24, 2016, 06:17 PM »
Always the same debate

What makes people play a Ragnarok server is the Essence of RO. What you have to change isn't the game itself, it's the player retention mechanics that make players stay on your server.
Changing the essence of RO: i.e the skills, the items, the monsters, is just gonna leave you with a 20 people server.

There's no point in opening a ro server with the same settings as everyone else, this is not for the sake of successfulness.

The game itself needs some changes to make it feel fresh and unknown again, without obvious abominations like Renewal.
If you think casting quag is a good idea you or your guild heavily failed to create a viable guild rost.

Offline Zinnia

Re: A reposted idea, rate my point of view
« Reply #28 on: Sep 24, 2016, 06:29 PM »
You can shift the meta and offer build diversity, XP map diversity, a challenging environment, without changing all of the skills mechanics and items, like blinzer did.

RO has a s*** load of content to use, just dig into this, filter out what's not to take, tweak a little what needs to be tweaked, thats enough.

I definitely agree this game needs customs, I'm not against them, I'm just saying the community doesn't want/like arbitrary customs. Its a paradox. They get bored of servers looking all the same but they're reticent of trying out something new. It's our job to fairly adjust the game to their needs and explain them why it's good.

Offline Cyan Hijirikawa

Re: A reposted idea, rate my point of view
« Reply #29 on: Sep 26, 2016, 01:34 AM »
I'll be posting a video about my server soon, it is us playing the server pre-launch (note this is just at around 20-30% done), you guys be the judge.

What me and my team did:
  • Left skills alone for the most part
  • Left items alone for the most part
  • Added a custom quest system, amplifying partying
  • Added Nightmare Dungeons, amplifying partying again - This is not the same as Nightmare Dungeons in RO
  • Added some fun mechanics for MVP - BGM change upon boss encounter,defeat,death etc

More information here: Click me~

I also updated the main topic, so the updates will be at the bottom part of the first post for everyone's convenience. Most of the people here will be like "meh from the look of the desc it looks bad", well, I'd like to invite you to try it out. Just throwing this here since people are still saying this and that, might as well showcase what me and my team have done so far.