Scandal of RO Private Server: LimitRO

[Lai]

Thank you all again for such caring thought about LimitRO, really thank you

I think we are all different and the judgement are different, many of you may disagree of my decisions and many agree with me, so what's right what's wrong ....


Really thankful again for highlighting this incident giving this soooo much attention

LimitRO aside from sometimes s*** happens once in a year, we still offer alot of fun
You guys should check it out and surprisingly the community is still rolling and everyone is doing their regular daily puns etc etc.

The reason I reply to this RMS topic is because, just wanted everyone to know that I made a mistake and I have looked down on the backup thing, will have more frequent backups from now on.

Also that will try to not make cash related automatic events in the future just in case xD

As of now, I'm going to bed and hopefully you guys have a great day
Muah love you all ~~

[farkitlah]

@jacobo_bobo
This is one of the main reason I create this thread, I do not want people got trick into playing this server only to find out its not as good as it mentioned. Most of the review that put high ratings was obviously fake. If only he bother to stand up and do something about it. Even if he's lazy, at least spent some money he got from his loyal players to hired someone who's capable to fix this mess.

@Lai
"many of you may disagree of my decisions and many agree with me" - Those people who actually agree with you is someone who benefits during this incident. Or maybe someone who have the mindset like you.

Of course the community still rolling, free thousands of CP. Its like playing offline game where you can make your equips strong with those CP. Don't forget about the people who put effort/time/money on it. They don't want to waste their achievement they hardly earned even though they dissatisfied with your "not doing anything after all the mess". And yes, you should have more frequent backups from now on.

I know that you won't do anything to fix this issue anymore. Its obvious from your replies, because you don't really bother to look at the problem. But I will continue to spread the words so that people won't fall into unfair RO server. This is one way to help RO community.

[Bue]

I can understand why you guys are frustrated; the admin made a mistake, chose to do nothing, and censored the topic.

But again, lets be pragmatic. So lets work it out again.

If an economic strategy isn't viable, then the only other option is tracing the log or rolling back.

Tracing the log
For performance reasons, servers do not typically hold extensive logs, because logging involves a ton of IO and takes up space. IO requires systems calls, which context switches to kernel space, and on unix is a synchronous operation, both bad for performance. Also, if the data is not buffer and the server is running an HDD, then constantly committing 4K pages either by the server or MySQL is slow. So tracing is not an option.

Rolling Back
Athena uses MySQL, which offers text and binary logging for recovery (aka backup).

Text logging is simply calling mysqldump to lock and dump the tables, which requires the server to be off. Typically, this option is not used because up-time is crucial. Also, you don't want your server's client connection to MySQL to block or return errors. And definitely don't want to to query the tables from the server AS updates are committed.

Binary logging is a combination of check-pointing and incremental binary logs as MySQL run. If binary logging is configure properly, you can rollback very close to when you deploy the malfunctioning NPC. There should be a ton of binary log index files that you can inspect with mysqlbinlog. (they should be in the data directory, check your mysql configuration file for the exact path)

So that is your best bet, unless you do text backup every 6 days.

[Potatoes]

What...

Tracing the logs: You should be holding logs for at least a month or two. Some logs, the cashlog one for instance, does not have to be cleared up ever (it's like... 10MB at best). The only logs you'll clear is the picklog and the chatlog. You can easily do SQL queries on your server; heck you can run dozen of SQL queries on a huge picklog database with no issues or impact ingame. Tracing the logs is definitely not an issue and can be done, that's what SQL is made for after all.

Rolling Back: You don't lock the tables when you call mysqldump; there is a parameter to disable that. This allows you to do SQL dumps at any moment while the server is running. Your players shouldn't feel anything while you do that.

All of which Lai doesn't do/know, I guess...

[Terpsichore]

There are ways to solve or at least mitigate such catastrophes but the problem is that it happened in the first place, and I don't just mean Lai adding an extra zero.

The deeper issues I can see here are:

1. Giving away something as impactful as cash points with no security checks or limitations of any sort to speak of. The amount given in this case isn't even the main issue when people can just use new accounts to continue reaping those points.

I think the correct way to organize something like this is making it participation based, creating a promotion of sorts and making players sign up for it, which would also make them spread the word and potentially bring in new players, cause people love free stuff. Then, the reward is given out manually, ensuring nobody's trying to cheat the system. Sure this would take some time but it's a more secure and honest system, plus it can potentially improve the communication between players and staff. Another benefit is that such systems make players actually participate, albeit in a symbolic way, still better than clicking a NPC to receive free stuff.


2. Doing it only during a very limited timespan. This naturally creates an unfair advantage as many people simply can't attend, or discover the fact when it's already too late. Only 3 hours? Come on.

Stuff like this should be announced beforehand and promoted for some days and people should be given the opportunity to receive their goodies when they can. The system mentioned previously also deals with this issue since the meetings can be easily arranged. If staff's availability is an issue, this can also handled through a NPC, and there are many ways to do it. For example, all eligible and confirmed accounts get flagged with a # variable manually and then the player can log in and get their reward from the NPC anytime. This doesn't take more than a few minutes of scripting.


3. Having stuff that's way too impactful on game's balance in the cash shop, such as those HD ores.

This is self explanatory.


Ultimately, rushed and/or spontaneous stuff rarely ends up well, give it some thought first, postpone or cancel if necessary. No need to take big risks over small things.

[Bue]

Tracing the logs: You should be holding logs for at least a month or two. Some logs, the cashlog one for instance, does not have to be cleared up ever (it's like... 10MB at best). The only logs you'll clear is the picklog and the chatlog. You can easily do SQL queries on your server; heck you can run dozen of SQL queries on a huge picklog database with no issues or impact ingame. Tracing the logs is definitely not an issue and can be done, that's what SQL is made for after all.

Yes, querying the log is not an issue, but committing the logs either to MySQL or to a file has performance considerations.

Your logs are either written to socket file descriptor over a TCP client connection to MySQL or a normal file descriptor  to a file on your filesystem, which has performance characteristics of its own, especially if its a share. This is not even considering how you need to load and format this information into buffer and the size of the reads and writes you're doing to optimize the performance.

Furthermore, if your queries have any performance issues, then you typically need to build a set of hash and b-tree indexes for the table depending on whether equality or range searches are more frequent and then optimize the query itself, typically with your join order and adding filters to narrow down the number of rows.

Rolling Back: You don't lock the tables when you call mysqldump; there is a parameter to disable that. This allows you to do SQL dumps at any moment while the server is running. Your players shouldn't feel anything while you do that.

Yes, you can disable the lock on the table as long as you can verify that the backup is in a valid state.

And to prevent any possibility of a corrupt backup, you usually want a graceful shutdown of the server.

The best setup for the highest up-time is a master-slave mysql setup with binary logging, where you can checkpoint and consolidate binary logs on the slave.

[Blinzer]

1. Back up isn't possible, because last backup was 6 days ago when the incident happened...doing a back up will make people ACTUALLY lose stuff. This incident if you look in a different way, it didnt make anyone lose anything, but just many MISSED this "bug", and some gained a lot benefit for free, would say many won the lottery of the year.

Your last backup is 6 days ago? 6 days ago. Do it right now, you clown. Are you stupid? "Let time fix things?" Imagine if someone duplicated 50 GTBs and then my response was "let time fix things". RO servers age WORSE with time, not better. Everyone watch out, people might lose some stuff if I do this < 1 week rollback to fix this disastrous problem. So in reality you have absolutely no excuse, you're just a retard.

In conclusion, your entire server should quit if you refuse to rollback to 6 f*** days ago. Take it from a man who knows better. Enjoy, I'm out before hearing this guy talk makes my eyes bleed out even more.

[Bue]

Your last backup is 6 days ago? 6 days ago. Do it right now, you clown. Are you stupid? "Let time fix things?" Imagine if someone duplicated 50 GTBs and then my response was "let time fix things". RO servers age WORSE with time, not better. Everyone watch out, people might lose some stuff if I do this < 1 week rollback to fix this disastrous problem. So in reality you have absolutely no excuse, you're just a retard.

In conclusion, your entire server should quit if you refuse to rollback to 6 f*** days ago. Take it from a man who knows better. Enjoy, I'm out before hearing this guy talk makes my eyes bleed out even more.

It could be the case that only a few people are salty about the whole situation. And the admin is getting married next month, visiting his dying grandma, and if we are going to stretch it, volunteering for charity, going to church, and helping a friend, hence way too compassionate and busy to care about a few salty players.

But there is absolutely nothing wrong with gross incompetence when running a private server. I would admit to this fact.

And you need to chill out...

[Raikon]

I think we are all different and the judgement are different, many of you may disagree of my decisions and many agree with me, so what's right what's wrong ....

4. I do appreciate all the suggestions made, but tbh, they are SOOOO complicated xD

See, more people would agree with you if you actually got off your high horse and stopped being sarcastic in every post. You try to give this innocent vibe, but I doubt someone of that sort would rig voting websites

I'll just post it again http://forum.ratemyserver.net/server-discussion/beware-of-servers-using-vote-bots!/15/

But, one thing is for sure, LimitRO will be here till the day I die, always 24/7 up running for those who still wants to have fun and of course a special server it own way

I just don't see this being incompetence, I do think Lai's remotely competent, having run LimitRO for several years. It's just him not caring about the server. Deleting the thread, laughing off at all the complaints in that thread, refusing to rollback or even take any suggestions from the community.
Not to mention an admin who seriously cares about LimitRO would never make a complete clone of the server with ZERO changes, including the same rates. It's a man who lied about who was running HoneyRO, lied about its population and lied about who was running it. I see no real reason to do so other than money. LimitRO is not the most free2play friendly server in any case (And neither was HoneyRO).

Let me dig up some memories while we're here.
                                                            
http://i.imgur.com/HQoZ6Aq.png
https://www.reddit.com/r/RagnarokOnline/comments/3t1vzc/private_server_compendium/cx6bu9m

http://i.imgur.com/CAM1mq1.jpg
Sick players online.
http://i.imgur.com/UfTU2Hw.png                                                               
http://i.imgur.com/H2Aq7h8.png

11 players -> 1173+ Votes IN
Though we all already know about the voting thing huh.
http://i.imgur.com/2TIA2L5.png

Same description as Limit, same rates too though not listed here
http://i.imgur.com/s7sLRKS.png
http://i.imgur.com/bKJCGEU.png

wew lad
http://i.imgur.com/s5jmgY5.png

WEW LAD
http://i.imgur.com/15ZpKYQ.png
http://i.imgur.com/LrCBiLY.png

Sick cash shop
http://i.imgur.com/1ozHWvM.png
http://i.imgur.com/PDtnFKc.png

http://www.honeyro.com/

After my last reply, I went to out together with my fiancee, my little cousin and my little brother to the wedding planner ~~

My marriage is on 2017.1.9 ~~
Then drove together to another city to visit my ill grandparents They are 80+ now, both are in the hospital Worst time ever....

To the point where I personally don't even believe this to be true anymore. Appealing to emotion is terrible in any case.
It just irks me because most RO servers I've played on in the past always died due to problems with the administration

[yC]

I feel bad for Lai for making this mistake in a supposed to be holiday gift event.

I see everyone are trying to be helpful and provide possible solutions to solve this problem.  Unfortunately, probably due to the technical difficulties involved these solutions were choose not to be employed to fix the problem.  It is the server's choice we can't do nothing about it.

I think if you look at it in another way, it could be taken as a surprise gift to the lucky ones that were there for 3 hours.  Yes it is unfair to those that didn't get to have the advantage but that's how lucky draw or lottery works.  I agree if there are people with the same IP abused the advantage more than a few times they could be hand picked out and remove the cash point obtained.  This should show something is being done but not to the extend of reverse everything and ruin the holiday for some people.

Well, Raikon no doubt about Lai is having a wedding in January.  This I read about it in facebook months ago with a picture of him and his fiancee.  I hope everything goes well for him and he will have a happy wedding / marriage.

[Lai]

Hi and goooood morning, everyone ~~

Just woke up, a sleep without any dreams, oooo feels so good
But the first thing I thought was,,,I wonder who replied to this topic today!!!
So excited that everyone is still paying attention and trying to make me do their way of "righteousness".

This world is just like this, it's either my way or your way, or some way etc etc
Repeating something is not really my style, but ermmmm you could re-read my replies above which they still stand ~~

Also, to some, please let's be cool to each other, no internet bullying please, and also I'm not that "satanic" or "bad" person as you think because of this incident or some other incident...
man if time could rewind, I would not have wanted to repeat those mistakes...

LimitRO is old since 2009, also I'm getting old as well haha, just in my experience, I have learned that sometimes doing nothing means something, sometimes time is the best cure...
Oh and we hit 700+ highest online in latest 2 years yesterday, wohooo ~~ I just wanted to celebrate this with everyone on this community that RO is still sooo alive

For those who dislikes me etc, and dont really know the reason, Im up for private chats and friend making.
Just contact me on fb.

Thank you yC admin for clearing the marriage thing up!

No harm just love ~~
Peace ~~

[DeePee]

The real question is, why is your last backup from 6 days ago? Why no daily backups? Heck, why no multiple backups every single day?

This whole mess could have easily been avoided that way.

[farkitlah]

@Bue
I can see that you have plenty ways to fix this issue, as well as providing sincere ideas. But still we can't be pragmatic when the one who in-charged doesn't even try.

"It could be the case that only a few people are salty about the whole situation."

- Its not few, and I can assured you at least half the population playing in that server is upset about this. The reason why some of you felt only few people are salty about it is because Lai already delete most of the comments from unsatisfied players. Furthermore, not many actually stumble into this thread, they don't know this thread exists in the first place. You can suggest me posting the thread to LimitRO forum, but you also would have guess what happen next, deleted.

@Terpsichore
Just for your info, Lai did not announced beforehand. The Snowman (Christmas) event should have ended on Christmas Day (25th-Dec-2016) itself. No one really knew there was special gift on the day after. Players only found out when they log into the game during that time. After 3 hrs, the NPC removed, look suspicious? Yes, its an error.

@Blinzer
Now you know why we are frustrated.

@Raikon
Thank you for posting these information. Honestly I have no idea there's problems like this exist. This is how scary it is, Lai hides every negative things about the server from us. Cover lies after lies. Not much players there knew about this stories that you're sharing. Even if someone knew it, they won't spread it because they might get ban by Lai.

@yC
Its easy to say, pretend it to be lottery. We all knew its an error being made.

@Lai
Its not internet bully when I'm posting facts out. If you wanna talk about bully/abusing, that particular word suit you so well. You abuse your power there, banned anyone who oppose you. Delete players negative comment just because you have power there.

For those who dislikes me etc, and dont really know the reason

You sure as hell why people dislikes you. Furthermore we already stated it clearly in this thread.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Updated with new information - first post*

[Lai]

This reminds me of real life incident of...
How the media painted Syria president Assad for being the "bad" guy for the incident and had the reason to make revolution inside the country and ruined millions of happiness of the people in Syria...
Ofcourse, there are other media in other places who says the opposite, which will not be shown on this media platform...

Sad ~~

Thank god, this isn't exact that war case ~~


I just wish all a belate merry Christmas and happy Coming New Year ~~


Just to say few last thing before I go for a business trip:
Some of the replies are good, some are just...*facepalm*
Example, I banned anyone who oppose me... wtf
Also the deleted topic which stayed there for many days and only replies from 3-4 ppl repeating each other, and went waaaay out of topic and the trigger was a forum member named "Reimu" added a link to nRO listing....that was a very good ad attempt in my community ~~


Also I admitted in this incident for being the one at fault, heck everything revolving LimitRO is my responsibility
But, if some of you guys want me to do as you guys want,,,, HMMMM, that's another case ~~

Been monitoring the server INGAME activities ever since the incident and yesterday, today ... hmmm I suggest this farkitlah, if you really want to be part of LimitRo...
I mean, if the city is destroyed, let's rebuild it together and make it a happy place ~~

Just don't let this topic become the most famous of all time again... like some of my previous topics xDDD


Btw, I have noticed soemthing.... LimitRO almost never get posted for it's good in this platform,,,and whenever something bad happens... it's like BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM the SCANDAL wohooo IT*S LAI again, many seems to be so happy xDDDD

but the sad part is.... WHY is LimitRO still Runninggggg, it should be DEAD long time agoooo


Oh well, I also wonder why... maybe it's not that bad


Wish all a happy day
Muah! ~~
Love ~~
GM Lai
facebook.com/limitrolai

[farkitlah]

@Lai
If you wanna drag real life incident into this thread, then this actually does not remind you of real life incident of Syria President Assad. But more like what happened in Malaysia. Prime Minister Najib corruption and abusing his power. And the media is totally opposite of Assad. Government control by Najib, and the media control by government. So the media itself portrayed him to be saint. Whereas his scandal involved 1MDB (corruption that even involved Hollywood actor Leonardo Dicaprio), Racism (play the race/religion card when necessary), murder of one Mongolian women and more.

Does this sound familiar? Yes. Sad for the people there. But thank god you're not in-charge of any country.

You dare to say that you did not remove those thread/topic/feeling of people disagree with you? Then where is the Q&A 1kCP thread now?
The last time I visited that thread, there are 4 pages, and each page consists of 25 replies. Don't tell me over 80++ replies from 3-4 peoples. My imgur printscreen have plenty different players comment, each and every printscreen was from different players. I don't know about Reimu posting nRO listing, but why don't you remove his post instead of removing the whole thread? This make it more suspicious.

If you by any means want me be part of LimitRO, then try to do something about this incident. Fix the mess now. Not avoiding and finding excuses. How can I rebuild it if you're doing nothing. This is your chance to restore your reputation.

it's like BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM the SCANDAL wohooo IT*S LAI again

Of course its you again, because you always make mistakes, and not learn from your mistake.

You knew yourself why LimitRO still running, we told you enough. Read previous both if you still wondering.