Rebirth RO legalizing cyber prostitution | Content argued not suitable to kids

[Hummingbird]

You know why you really shouldn't implement that rule? This is internet, anyone can pretend that they're adult or 18+. By legalizing such thing, you are encouraging people to do cyber prostitution.

Finally: I want to throw a scenario at you. Let's say we have a guy named John, he's 20. John meets a girl named Jane. She seems really cool. She says she's from the same state as him and she's 19. The two hit it off and he starts getting a major crush on her. She's not really feeling it back tries to brush it off. Soon John foolishly starts trying to buy her affection, giving her items, etc. One day he gives her a cash shop hat. Jane really likes it, and seeing an opportunity she tries to convince John to buy her the matching piece. John is a little tight on cash now, so he has to say no. Jane, really wanting that hat, decides to "make it with his money" by offering up some pictures. Since John is really into her he completely missed that he's being used and agrees.

So some time passes, and this happens a few more times. Then one day John starts talking to Mike. Turns out after her success with John, she did the same thing to Mike. John, a little unsure of what to do, decides to ask Jane's friend, Michelle, whom he doesn't know very well, what she thinks he should do...

Well Michelle is shocked to hear this. As Jane's real life friend she knows she's only 17. John is stunned.

So what now? Under the "it's all against the rules" that you all propose, John is stuck. If he reports Jane, he and his friend Mike will get punished too. His most likely course of action is to do nothing, hope it all blows over and he gets away with it.

Your scenario is different. That isn't considered as cyber prostitution. What you're doing is like selling some credits in a normal way, players trade their credit and pays those cam girls/boys. Thus, making this whole thing a business. Don't say that you can't do something about it, you're a GM, you are empowered to implement rules and has the authority to give punishment.

[RebirthOfficial]

You know why you really shouldn't implement that rule? This is internet, anyone can pretend that they're adult or 18+. By legalizing such thing, you are encouraging people to do cyber prostitution.

Your scenario is different. That isn't considered as cyber prostitution. What you're doing is like selling some credits in a normal way, players trade their credit and pays those cam girls/boys. Thus, making this whole thing a business. Don't say that you can't do something about it, you're a GM, you are empowered to implement rules and has the authority to give punishment.

You completely and totally missed the point. We can't do something about something that was never reported. Against the rules, John doesn't file a report because he and his friend Mike (and possibly others he's unaware of) will get banned. Allowed by the rules he does and we put a stop to it. Please read my entire post >>

[Cressy]

Fourth: The post was allowed after a very light hearted joke in main. I actually thought they were kidding too. But, they weren't. So then I was on the spot. We had said it was ok before, but no one ever asked to make a post about it. Not seeing anything wrong with it off if the top of my head I said sure. Threw down a few stipulations (18+ tag, content on a spoiler, etc) and said sure.

Then the complaints started. At first people were bashing on the girls and I didn't feel this was ok at all. Then the topic shifted more towards why the subject was allowed on a public forum. That led to a staff discussion at which time we decided to not allow those types of services to be allowed to be advertised on public. The post was removed, and I do apologize for that bit of short sightedness.

Finally: I want to throw a scenario at you. Let's say we have a guy named John, he's 20. John meets a girl named Jane. She seems really cool. She says she's from the same state as him and she's 19. The two hit it off and he starts getting a major crush on her. She's not really feeling it back and tries to brush it off. Soon John foolishly starts trying to buy her affection, giving her items, etc. One day he gives her a cash shop hat. Jane really likes it, and seeing an opportunity she tries to convince John to buy her the matching piece. John is a little tight on cash now, so he has to say no. Jane, really wanting that hat, decides to "make it with his money" by offering up some pictures. Since John is really into her he completely missed that he's being used and agrees.

So some time passes, and this happens a few more times. Then one day John starts talking to Mike. Turns out after her success with John, she did the same thing to Mike. John, a little unsure of what to do, decides to ask Jane's friend, Michelle, whom he doesn't know very well, what she thinks he should do...

Well Michelle is shocked to hear this. As Jane's real life friend she knows she's only 17. John is stunned.

So what now? Under the "it's all against the rules" that you all propose, John is stuck. If he reports Jane, he and his friend Mike will get punished too. His most likely course of action is to do nothing, hope it all blows over and he gets away with it.

But what about the current rules that say what is legal is allowed? Well, legally speaking, John didn't do anything wrong because he had no way of knowing Jane's age was a lie. The law protects him, so long as he ceases all activity. The rules protect him so long as he reports the violation to us. So, with no risk to him or his friend if he reports Jane and a large risk for not reporting her, he decides it's best to file a report.

So, with a ban on the activity it happens anyway. But, with it being legal we can find out about incidents that would have otherwise gone unreported. It's good for both people. John was protected from his own stupidity. And, since studies show a large percentage of girls doing what Jane did at that young of an age were sexually abused, it allows us to report something that may very well end up helping that girl out.

This is just one scenario. This could be flipped to where Jane was 20 and John was 17. There's too many variables. Personally, I'm not going to change this rule just because a few people think it's wrong for adults to sell services. I'm not risking a single report of a minor doing this not being filed because someone didn't want to draw attention to their activities. If you have a problem with that, don't play RRO. That is all.

First up, as a GM you shouldn't be making snap choices like that on the spot, something like that should always be discussed with the team first.

More importantly, that scenario, guys have been arrested in situations like that, times when they didn't know the girls age, but she was still a minor and so owning any images of her counted as child pornography. You say you'd ban her and not do anything to the guys because you didn't hold it against them, but who's to stop her claiming two strange men on the internet forced her to send pictures and report them to the cops? You claim these rules protect your players, but this is the internet. The way you would be asking for age confirmation might be a photo of someone's id. Plenty of people have fakes, or hell, this is the internet, a lot of people are decent with photoshop. You aren't protecting anyone, you're just reminding impressionable young girls and boys that there's an easy way to get credits.

Now I'm quickly going to touch on arms trading being allowed on there, what the actual f***, maybe as an Australian, a gun free country, I don't get this, but really? I just don't even.

[flyingheo]

First and most importantly: minors are not permitted to participate in any adult services. Not as a seller or a buyer.

Great. So how are you going to confirm the players age? Going to make players send you a photo ID? Oh, you surely cannot fake anything on the internet when RebirthRO's Admin is in charge.

Second: Any minor caught participating in adult services will be permanently banned. Any parties which knowingly participated will also be permanently banned.

Congratulation. You are now psychic, and can read players mind from your screen. How would you know if someone that is involved in the situation/transaction is underage? With the ID they used to sign up for RebirthRO? Or will you take other players' world "That player is underage, and s/he is selling their naked pictures to others players." You have no way to confirm a player age on the internet. They are not under oath to tell you the truth either. But you must have a solution to this. Since you're so confident in your actions.   

Fourth: The post was allowed after a very light hearted joke in main. I actually thought they were kidding too. But, they weren't. So then I was on the spot. We had said it was ok before, but no one ever asked to make a post about it. Not seeing anything wrong with it off if the top of my head I said sure. Threw down a few stipulations (18+ tag, content on a spoiler, etc) and said sure.

So you're agreeing that this was a bad decision, right? You represent RebirthRO. What you say will be worth at least hundred times more than a normal player. You have the authority to make changes. You have the authority to make decision for the entire server. But that did not stop you from joking around about how you would not pay for cyber sex, since you cannot touch the girl. Learn to keep your mouth shut. Learn to think before you type anything that you will later regret. Learn to use that brain inside your skull. Or the least you can do it clean off the cobweb.

Then the complaints started. At first people were bashing on the girls and I didn't feel this was ok at all. Then the topic shifted more towards why the subject was allowed on a public forum. That led to a staff discussion at which time we decided to not allow those types of services to be allowed to be advertised on public. The post was removed, and I do apologize for that bit of short sightedness.

The reason she was involved in this thread was because you made the decision to legalize the transaction of her services. IF you did not choose to legalize, and created a thread about it. She wouldn't be dragged into this. She is one of your players. You did nothing to protect her. Do not blame us for your decision. Apologizing now after stating that you did nothing wrong in the last what? 5 posts? It doesn't make anything better. You should have thought about the consequences you cause for your server and players.

Finally: I want to throw a scenario at you. Let's say we have a guy named John, he's 20. John meets a girl named Jane. She seems really cool. She says she's from the same state as him and she's 19. The two hit it off and he starts getting a major crush on her. She's not really feeling it back and tries to brush it off. Soon John foolishly starts trying to buy her affection, giving her items, etc. One day he gives her a cash shop hat. Jane really likes it, and seeing an opportunity she tries to convince John to buy her the matching piece. John is a little tight on cash now, so he has to say no. Jane, really wanting that hat, decides to "make it with his money" by offering up some pictures. Since John is really into her he completely missed that he's being used and agrees.

So some time passes, and this happens a few more times. Then one day John starts talking to Mike. Turns out after her success with John, she did the same thing to Mike. John, a little unsure of what to do, decides to ask Jane's friend, Michelle, whom he doesn't know very well, what she thinks he should do...

Well Michelle is shocked to hear this. As Jane's real life friend she knows she's only 17. John is stunned.

So what now? Under the "it's all against the rules" that you all propose, John is stuck. If he reports Jane, he and his friend Mike will get punished too. His most likely course of action is to do nothing, hope it all blows over and he gets away with it.

But what about the current rules that say what is legal is allowed? Well, legally speaking, John didn't do anything wrong because he had no way of knowing Jane's age was a lie. The law protects him, so long as he ceases all activity. The rules protect him so long as he reports the violation to us. So, with no risk to him or his friend if he reports Jane and a large risk for not reporting her, he decides it's best to file a report.

So, with a ban on the activity it happens anyway. But, with it being legal we can find out about incidents that would have otherwise gone unreported. It's good for both people. John was protected from his own stupidity. And, since studies show a large percentage of girls doing what Jane did at that young of an age were sexually abused, it allows us to report something that may very well end up helping that girl out.

This is just one scenario. This could be flipped to where Jane was 20 and John was 17. There's too many variables. Personally, I'm not going to change this rule just because a few people think it's wrong for adults to sell services. I'm not risking a single report of a minor doing this not being filed because someone didn't want to draw attention to their activities. If you have a problem with that, don't play RRO. That is all.

Here is a better scenario:

RebirthRO Root Admin announced and inform all players that it is legal to sell pictures/cam session for RebirthRO. @main is filled with 'Adult' selling their pictures/cam session for RebirthRO. A young 15 years old girl logged into the game for the first time. Seeing the Advertisement, thinks to herself. "Why would I ever do something like this!" Then she still continue to play RebirthRO, and she found out there is a cash shop items she really wants. But her parents told her no, she cannot waste money on RebirthRO's pixel.

Then she thought to herself. Everyone is selling their pictures for cash shop point. Even the Root Admin announced it was alright. I only need to sell a few pictures to get that item. I'm going to do it. They don't need to know how old I am. They're not able to keep track of my age. How will they find out how old I am?

Guess what. 12 years old now look like they're 16. Will you ask every players that is involved in this transaction to send you a photo ID and webcam you before they're allow to sell their services? To confirm that they're not a minor. Stop making scenario with 17/18 yrs old. We all know that there are players around the age of 15 and younger.

Please do not tell me that I do not see the point of your scenario or my opinion is just my opinion. Learn from your mistake. Just stop backing up your nonsense logic. There is no way you can be right by legalizing sexual activities in an online game. Look at Gravity, they didn't legalized it. 

[exii]

This topic is a joke. 4chan.org ftw.

[Skulomania]

There is a time and place for everything Rebirth. Although I'm glad the only thing you own is a virtual server, because if you owned lets say Toys R Us, there would be a section for alcholic drinks, guns and ammo, private booths for pornography, hell even maybe a stripper section. Oh and we won't have to put a 18+ warning on the entrance to the store because, it is none of our responsibility to what adults choose to do, even though the majority are children.

Again, some people are just not meant to run servers. You being one of them. It's not a bad thing though, it is just what it is. Although, I'm glad the only thing your running is a server. So I guess we should all raise a glass to that. *raises a glass* . It is good to be thankful sometimes for what we have, but also for what we don't have.

[Xarale]

Items/services sold here must be legal in the United States of America and for any other countries involved (i.e. sellers country, buyers country) to be allowed.
Firearm Sales: Allowed for the USA only. Must use a licensed dealer (FFL) for the transfer or it's a felony. Any illegal firearm sales brought to our attention will be reported to the BATF.

What the.. are you guys serious?  So it's not enough to allow and encourage cyber porn on an RO server where there's children playing, but you'll freely allow people to trade in-game currency for firearms?  What's wrong with you?!  I get that you guys are trying to be different or something, but come on.. this is ridiculous.  Sure you might get people who do these things behind closed doors anyway (although I've never heard of a firearm trade on RO before), but by placing it there right in the open and saying you're fine with it, you're basically encouraging the idea.

Again, how can you prove the age of these people who you allow to commit these acts/trades on your server?  You can't, period.  This is the internet, you realise how easy it is to fake an ID right?  Then what?  Thanks to your open promotion about "adult services" in your rules, you're likely going to have minors doing pornographic shows on cam for in-game currency.  Does it make you guys feel good that you're openly encouraging this possibility?  Also how are you going to be able to monitor every deal that goes down?  Are you going to actively spy on every player and demand ID when you see them making such a trade?  I doubt it.

Ridiculous.

-X

[Leramani]

I can assure you, Xarale, that I would also see it as ridiculous if I didnt think about the kids. And fire arms? Now we are getting into a really difficult area, that upsets the law of many country and might get unwanted attention.

/Leramani

[Furry Kid]

Great it's now about firearms? Players looking to play RO would seriously avoid your crazy server.

Oh, and you can't just tell us to "not play" your server, the mere existence of it is simply disturbing.

[Innomite]

Triper, do you enjoy watching these activists wasting their time as much as I do?

[Zleepy]

Good promo thread for rebirth, expect to see the population of their servers rise a bit.

[Triper]

Triper, do you enjoy watching these activists wasting their time as much as I do?

Depends on which ones you're referring to.

[Kimchiii]

Good promo thread for rebirth, expect to see the population of their servers rise a bit.

yeah i expect some kids will join their server
since they can get prostitute, firearms and such easily on internet 

[Zleepy]

Not at all but putting RebirthRO on the front page of the rms website is pretty good they'll be getting some new players likely thanks to the help of everyone here.

[Dazzu]

For a game that's rated as Teen by the ESRB, the server's actions seems very radical and morally appalling in comparison to the nature (and objective) of the game.