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Offline dalamera

Private server shortcomings
« on: Mar 16, 2013, 09:19 am »
For the past week I've been coming to RMS on a daily basis, Hoping to find a server worth playing. However, When i stumble across one that looks even remotely decent, There's always a setting that puts me right off. It's typically one of the following:

Buff applying heal NPC's: Devaluing the use of Acolyte-tree classes.
Card removers: Altering the economic demand & value of cards, Even slotted equipment.
Increased server opening Exp rates: Benefiting only founders, Placing newcomers at a disadvantage.
Donation rewards: Headgears that mimic in-game craftables, Obliterating their novelty value.
Mob HP: Whether there is none, a HP bar or % value. Nothing beats the precision of numeric display.
MvP & Mini-boss: When drop rates are intentionally lower than that of the servers global rates.

Most of these features have become so common amongst privates, I can't even remotely enjoy playing with even a single one of them present. I'd appreciate it if someone could recommend me to a server pure of these ludicrous settings.
(Preferably one that isn't 4+ Years old, No incentive to play catchup with 200+ active players)




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Offline Triper

Re: Private server shortcomings
« Reply #1 on: Mar 16, 2013, 12:47 pm »
That's why, nowadays, I just prefer BG or total customized servers as much as the original RO is cool and stuff.

Offline yC

Re: Private server shortcomings
« Reply #2 on: Mar 16, 2013, 01:43 pm »
These are the features that isn't found in official and nice to have for player convenience (not my opinion).  You have to take into account many of the private server players have been in the cycle for way to long that they want to save time as much as possible on the repetitive aspect of the game.  Card remover being one so they don't have to hunt the same rare card again when they used one in an equip.

Let me try to explain ...

Buff applying heal NPC's: You are right, I agree.  But people wants convenience and private server with low population don't always have aco/priest around to buff.
Card removers: convenience again.
Increased server opening Exp rates: This is one of the common tool used to attract players to newly opened server (i doubt the effect).  You can also throw in the guild package that only benefit guilds because they come in larger number and server loves that.
Donation rewards: Whatever with donation is a way to keep the server alive, it's like cash shop but some server decide money > balance.
Mob HP: I forgot how this suppose to look like in official, they don't tell you the mob hp at all or what?
MvP & Mini-boss:  This is again about the small population, on a server with 1000 players if one person gets a GTB Card there's 999 others that will beat the hell out of the 1 person.  On a server with 10~50 the GTB could mean a lot to the server power balance.

I think if you are looking into pure low rate server the effect of the above shall be at minimal.  I can at least quickly recall Ironic (pre-re) or Raga Deep (renewal) that is trying to give a close to official environment.  Both are like 1/1/1 rates afaik.

(I feel I got brainwashed when I saw the post and immediately thought it's Fruit Pie or Rosa Tea posting lol.)

Offline Playtester

Re: Private server shortcomings
« Reply #3 on: Mar 16, 2013, 06:36 pm »
Isn't it incredibly picky to not join a server because it displays HP in % rather than numerics?

I think the % display is ALOT better and easier to read. I see 50% and it's clear I'm halfway done. I see 138575/201942 and it first of all takes so much place and is very hard to read too.

Also MVP/Mini-boss... I think it's very important that MVP cards drop at 0.01%. A few MVPs cards on a server can kill it because new players and especially bigger guild will simply refuse to join such a server with many MVP cards. Actually it would be better to just remove them completely imo.
I agree that generally lower boss drop rates is really stupid, though. Because it also affects normal monsters that have boss mode (e.g. Kasas and those Thanatos Angels).

@yC
Official servers didn't display any monster HP at all until 2011. The 2012 and 2013 client was improved so it can show HP bars for monsters.

Offline Triper

Re: Private server shortcomings
« Reply #4 on: Mar 16, 2013, 11:20 pm »
Actually, that depends. In most of the situations I would say the same but for Skeggs and slaves of Satan, that helps to not make a mess or, at least, to do it better/faster.

Some servers do have an option by using /showname where you change the % for numbers and vice-verse and it's still better then the "new" HP bars imo

Offline Bue

Re: Private server shortcomings
« Reply #5 on: Mar 17, 2013, 02:18 am »
"Give the people what they fucking want." - Mencius, somewhat accurate quote.

You won't believe the amount of bullshit some administrators and developers get when players aren't given what they're entitled.

When you think about the shitstorm that players will give you for the amount of dedication and hardwork and decision-making you put into the game; you'll literally be more than happy to give the players what they want rather than going the highroad.

Trust me, nothing is more fuck up than having your RO friends threaten to leave your server because you can't give them what they want. Literally, think about this every time I play / work on RO.
« Last Edit: Mar 17, 2013, 02:28 am by Bue »

Offline dalamera

Re: Private server shortcomings
« Reply #6 on: Mar 17, 2013, 03:35 am »
Increased server opening Exp rates: This is one of the common tool used to attract players to newly opened server (i doubt the effect). 

I knew the incentive behind it, But the kind of players it attracts are those who are only there to cruise along higher rates for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage. I personally wouldn't want to attract those kind of entitled-yuppies in the first place, If i were to launch a server.

MvP & Mini-boss:  This is again about the small population, on a server with 1000 players if one person gets a GTB Card there's 999 others that will beat the hell out of the 1 person.  On a server with 10~50 the GTB could mean a lot to the server power balance.

I get your point, It's the same justification most servers would use. A typical occurrence would be the chance going from 1 in 2000 to 1 in 10,000, Purely for the sake of avoiding their being attained. But what about those who only hunt MvP's for the sake of cards, Why do they have to get shafted like that? What if someone happened to get a GTB card anyway. Would the GM threaten them to not use it? Where would it end? Gaining powerful MvP cards typically makes you revered towards the community, I feel it's that aspect of things the GM's attempt to avoid, Especially seeing as majority of them have bloated egos and don't want their popularity contested in the slightest.

Nothing is more messed up than having your RO friends threaten to leave your server because you can't give them what they want..

To be honest, They shouldn't be GM's/Developers in the first place if they crack under that kind of peer pressure. It's a stepping stone towards total corruption.

Offline Bue

Re: Private server shortcomings
« Reply #7 on: Mar 17, 2013, 04:20 am »
To be honest, They shouldn't be GM's/Developers in the first place if they crack under that kind of peer pressure. It's a stepping stone towards total corruption.

This isn't in a sense of giving your friends a personal advantage like @item-ing, its a sense of configuring the server so that they can play the way they wanted, regardless of what other players wanted.

Every administrator knows that they can't please everybody, trying to do so, which in my case, lead to over-working and over-thinking every possibility. Even if you present a practical solution that pleases everybody, the idea that the players didn't get what they wanted results in the players leaving the server.

This is all a true story by the way.

These shortcomings that you notice are only the 'tip of the most cliche iceberg' of all the private servers out there; the only way to bypass these problems and represent practical solutions requires a tremendous amount of work.

For example, introducing a custom and novel donation headgear requires that they are reasonably attractive by giving out nice status, but not to the point that they're the most sought after headgear in the game.

This shortcoming that you just listed is exactly my point; here you've a server that sells donation headgears base on aesthetics without being overpowered, yet somebody will argue otherwise.

« Last Edit: Mar 17, 2013, 04:31 am by Bue »

Offline Lakre

Re: Private server shortcomings
« Reply #8 on: Mar 18, 2013, 02:50 am »
This is just my two-cents:

Buff applying heal NPC's: Devaluing the use of Acolyte-tree classes.
True, but not a whole lot. Any good WoE or MVP party still needs Acolyte-tree classes. Most low-rates have buffers that cost money, and most people make buff slaves to get around that anyways.

Card removers: Altering the economic demand & value of cards, Even slotted equipment.
Agreed. It's more of a convenience thing. Its surprising how many people demand this be implemented for them to play.

Increased server opening Exp rates: Benefiting only founders, Placing newcomers at a disadvantage.
Not really. The amount of players that will benefit from opening rates will be so little compared to the overall population of the server in the long run. Everyone will get to 99/70 eventually, having an opening exp rate increase isn't going to do anything about that.

Donation rewards: Headgears that mimic in-game craftables, Obliterating their novelty value.
Dem OP donation rewards!

Mob HP: Whether there is none, a HP bar or % value. Nothing beats the precision of numeric display.
Im not sure what you are trying to get at. Do you want HP/%/# ? Or do you hate them? I've played long enough to not have to rely on those and just go with databases/memorization of mob HP.

MvP & Mini-boss: When drop rates are intentionally lower than that of the servers global rates.
I agree with intentionally lower card drop rates. Having too many of those can ruin a low rate server. But no reason why normal drops have to be nerfed too.

Offline Karuna-tan

Re: Private server shortcomings
« Reply #9 on: Mar 18, 2013, 05:01 am »
Buff applying heal NPC's: Devaluing the use of Acolyte-tree classes.
Agreed. Making an acolyte isn't really that hard.
Card removers: Altering the economic demand & value of cards, Even slotted equipment.
True as well. This falls under a category I call "spoonfeeding". Personally I've never seen what's the point of having these at all - if you card the wrong armor (a crappy one), then you shouldn't be able to remove it. You should keep the armor with the card in it and eventually learn a valuable lesson - think before you act.
Increased server opening Exp rates: Benefiting only founders, Placing newcomers at a disadvantage.
This I'm actually neutral about, unless we're talking about a server that has rates 10/10/10 or higher - having double exp with those rates just... no. With those rates anyone with decent playing skills can trans within few days (and most likely those rates will last a bit longer than few days).
Donation rewards: Headgears that mimic in-game craftables, Obliterating their novelty value.
Overall just having original headgears as donation rewards, especially if it's an item you can't even make in RO (Dress Hat anyone?). Having costume headgears would be a lot better option, seeing that they have no stats and are only for the looks.
Mob HP: Whether there is none, a HP bar or % value. Nothing beats the precision of numeric display.
Having HP bar for monster HP is something I have nothing against, seeing that it's an official feature kRO decided to implement. Personally I've never needed any mob HP indicators, because I like using databases.
MvP & Mini-boss: When drop rates are intentionally lower than that of the servers global rates.
Have to disagree, I'm sorry. When the drop rates reach at least x10 (and up) for cards and rares, I wouldn't play on a server that has the exact same drop rate for MVP/miniboss cards.

But everyone has their own tastes in the end.
"Howard, you do know I've got a number of ways to poison you. In your sleep. Your food. You don't want that to happen do you?"

Offline Thoth

Re: Private server shortcomings
« Reply #10 on: Mar 22, 2013, 04:56 am »
You have to take into account many of the private server players have been in the cycle for way to long that they want to save time as much as possible on the repetitive aspect of the game. 
they should just remove pvm from the game entirely then and have a pure BG/PvP/WoE server. the server would probably run faster too  /pif

You won't believe the amount of bullshit some administrators and developers get when players aren't given what they're entitled.
thats why you can't allow anyone to have the default the default GTB card, EVER. because if you realize the problem and deal with it in retrospect, you'll have a shitstorm on your hands...
this is actually a problem for anything with extreme rarity, not just mvp/miniboss cards, but also +9 only effects for weapons/cards...

I'll add in guild packs. nothing quite as annoying for individual players, to be forced into some incumbent guild and be online at a specific time, or lose out on extremely valuable items. its also an annoying thing for GMs to have to deal with. if you wish for people to be able to compete with incumbents, then make downgraded charbound versions of high level woe gear for all new accounts/characters.

Offline ShadowValentine

Re: Private server shortcomings
« Reply #11 on: Mar 22, 2013, 05:59 am »
EDIT: Wait a minute, is this a rant or did I read it right and they still want recommendations?

[edit by Triper: cleaned the advertisement]
« Last Edit: Mar 22, 2013, 10:00 am by Triper »

Offline Triper

Re: Private server shortcomings
« Reply #12 on: Mar 22, 2013, 10:02 am »
It's a rant. A rant about how servers seem to similar nowadays and how it hurts the gameplay.

Offline ShadowValentine

Re: Private server shortcomings
« Reply #13 on: Mar 22, 2013, 04:24 pm »
I'd appreciate it if someone could recommend me to a server pure of these ludicrous settings.
(Preferably one that isn't 4+ Years old, No incentive to play catchup with 200+ active players)


So they didn't actually want a recommendation?

Offline Triper

Re: Private server shortcomings
« Reply #14 on: Mar 23, 2013, 02:21 am »
PMs exist for that in this case =P

Even if the topic is a bit 50/50 of rant and server seeking because of that, everybody is discussing this, even the OP so, since it's posted in rant & rave, it's a rant and let's face it, aside 1-2 people, everybody will just "spam" server seeking with their servers to the point that won't go at 100% with what the user is looking since it's obvious that we have to let most of them be there because they don't break the rules and are somewhat acceptable in some topics.

Thinking about this, we can do a little "challenge" here around it instead of the PMs thing:

Let's see how good people are to find a server to dalamera.

  • I will allow 5 servers to be posted[this is an exception, don't repeat this anywhere, you're not allowed to post server ads in this section except this and only this time! And I really hope that yC neither dalamera mind that I'm doing this lol] here if you can met every single item that dalamera posted.
  • You will have to quote her items and explain, in each one, why that server mets them.
  • Nobody is allowed to post more then 1 server.
  • No edits are allowed in your post. You edit, you're out of the prize.
  • Anyone that doesn't go by what the rules of this challenge state, will face consequences like if they broke a rule.
  • I also will repeat this - this is an exception, don't repeat this anywhere, you're not allowed to post server ads in this section except this and only this time!
  • This is an unauthorized and without approval from yC "challenge" ftw[for now at least. I'm lazy to ask her about this at the moment - lazy to turn skype on just for that :v I will get her later or after she sees this I will see what is her opinion on skype lol I'm also waiting dalamera to answer me through a PM about this to be 100% ok]
  • Since this is like a contest, we need a reward, even if small!
    • If from that 5 posted, there is one server that dalamera likes[*hoping dalamera collaborates with me*], I'm willing to do an avatar for the "winner". I will pm the "winner" asap and ask for a theme/image when that time comes and pm him back when I get it done. I will also post it here so people can appreciate it too, with an watermark ofc =P
    • If no "winner" is found, I will just make 5 avatars based on the RO theme and pm each one of the users that tried to find a server for dalamera. Yeah, a "at least you tried" prize.

PS - I don't know who is dalamera neither played with her(?) once afaik and I'm not either drunk, it's just on of those things of the moment because yes.
« Last Edit: Mar 23, 2013, 02:40 am by Triper »