Nova RO - Honest review from a banned Player

Started by inzanity, Jan 11, 2015, 07:28 AM

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NovaRagnarok

#15
Quote from: Bue on Jan 11, 2015, 06:19 PM
OP was fairly comprehensive with the amount of information he provided here.

Aside from the drama, your server seems to be having common problems associated with:

1. the current renewal implementation.
2. non-standard athena configurations.
3. flaws in custom systems.

It appears that the players and guilds that you've banned are very valuable, that is, if you can earn their respect.

I've been in situations like this before, what is going on here has a much longer history and goes deeper than what non-nova players can understand or can be succinctly expressed by nova players.

It takes time for resentment from players to build up to this point where we get threads like these on RMS.

And you're honestly believing 100% of what a player who was banned from the server is typing?

Point 1:
I've recently overhauled the source code and we're practically completely up to date with rAthena. When I started the server I didn't know too much about coding, and I've come a long way since then. The Reddit files were handy in learning, but by now most of the things from those times have already been phased out.

As for point 2, I really don't know what you're referring to, you'd have to elaborate a little further for me.

Point 3:
The Daily Rewards NPC had an IP and account check in place, these players used a VPN service to bypass the protection. Actively going out of their way to abuse it. There's more checks in place now.

While guilds are extremely valuable to have in a server, a group of people such as this one, that actively goes out of their way to harass everybody, and looks for exploits everywhere is not healthy for a community. It'll inflate the population, that's for sure. I don't mean this to disrespect every member of the guild, as quite a few of their members were great people, but their leadership was extremely difficult to deal with. One of the first days they joined, Gankaare specifically PM'd me telling me he'd be extremely disrespectful to people and call them names in order to rile them up and make competition for WoE. That's just not right.

And to expand a little further, only 3 people from the guild are banned. Inzanity, Objection, and Gankaare.
Inzanity and Objection were the two involved with the Gold Coin VPN abuse, while Gankaare was disrespectful towards everybody at all times.
The rest of the guild was not banned or punished in any way shape or form.

And haha, I just saw this:

That was obviously me playing around and taken completely out of context, which seems to be a pattern here.
Do you honestly believe something typed in all caps was meant to be taken seriously?

"The punishment handed out was not for what was done, but what could potentially have been done. Basically, you shoplift a Snickers-bar, and get punished for bank robbery. We were punished for a crime we didn't commit, but might have."

There was more than 1,000 Gold Coins created this way, as of now, Gold Coins are selling between players for around 70k each.
Saying that you kept them in-guild doesn't make it any less bad.


eieiron

#16
Lets address the potentially misleading points (as opposed to the majority, where your friend, or you yourself were CLEARLY in the wrong)

Double standards from admins for not banning Zorthei who called Gankaare a retard? Sorry, but Zorthei had the guts to say what everyone was thinking. If your whole guild doesn't contribute to discussions in forums, and simply write "+1" as if that means something, how do you expect anyone to take what you, and your guild say seriously? Maybe if your guild started off speaking intelligibly, (as opposed to using every platform of communication available to you to only say either useless or inflammatory remarks) it would've been different. Act like an idiot, and you'll be treated like one.

Quote from: inzanity on Jan 11, 2015, 07:28 AM
NovaRO had a population of around 30-40 players, but 2000 seperate accounts. 500 of them were Novices, and it seemed pretty clear to us that we wouldn't be the first ones to make use of this exploit.
People have alts. Thats all there is to it. Not everyone is a cheating piece of scum (like you) "pretty clear" indeed.

Quote from: inzanity on Jan 11, 2015, 07:28 AM

There you have it. The final verdict was to allow us to keep playing, with our old accounts frozen and as for the gear it was still up to debate. However shortly after my guildmate got banned. I had a heated discussion with the admins about recent stalking of my guild and that lots of info from the admin team was leaking to a single guild (Tales of Ragnarok). Suddenly Tales of Ragnarok knew about everything and anything that happened and stuff we had done (or not done). After, once again, did show his nice power abusing/enforcing attitude on main chat, I told them how i feel about being treated like some animal in a cage on his server. My guildmate was just reading the main chat and after 10 minutes or so he got his account deleted for no reason.


One sided as always I see! Maybe good Tilly neglected to mention she said literally EVERYTHING that had happened to you guys by coming to payon (where our guild was) and QQing to us....but no, OBVIOUSLY it was the admins leaking information....

Quote from: inzanity on Jan 11, 2015, 07:28 AM
So either he actually dumps half his paycheck into a private-server, or he gets them in a way thats exclusive to him. When asking Nova, he kept quiet about it, not wanting to share ANY details if it was legit or not. Why, I am asking myself. If its a legit 300k earned through honest ways, there would be no reason to hide anything. But they do and that shows clear signs of corruption.

Loving the conspiracy theories here. Did you consider the possibility that Nova has zero reason to give you any explanation as to how other people pay for their cash points? "No reason to hide anything"? Maybe a buzz word like "privacy" might help you figure out why. Not giving you his (what? transactional records?) is a clear sign of corruption?

PS: Seems like you're grasping for straws near the end, maybe you should keep it concise, instead of adding your voodoo "I am asking myself" tinfoil hat garbage.

But hey, keep up the misinformation!

To your credit, most of the things you said about Green seem to have a few pertinent points, the guy can be a bit trigger happy, but he ends up reasonable(ish) eventually.

NovaRagnarok

Quote from: Bue on Jan 11, 2015, 06:19 PM
It takes time for resentment from players to build up to this point where we get threads like these on RMS.

As for that statement,


It doesn't take much when it's 100% premeditated.

Hummingbird

Quote from: NovaRagnarok on Jan 11, 2015, 04:33 PM

On a different topic, while the Daily Rewards NPC was in theory "easy to abuse", no one had the malicious intent you guys did to actually go through with it. Logs exist for a reason, and I was very thorough in my search.


Yeah right. That "no one had the malicious intent you guys did" phrase annoys me. Please see screenshot below.



Before i join the server, there are already lots of novices on it. You wanna know why? Because some of your players already abused the bug for gold coins. To all the players who want to join this server, please think twice. The people staying there probably have some op weapons and equips.  /heh

Quote from: NovaRagnarok on Jan 11, 2015, 04:33 PM


Edit: I would also like to hear out on why you're claiming I'm incompetent. If I honestly did something wrong, I'd be very willing to hear out your opinion and try to work on myself, but I believe I'm running a tight ship.


I believe you already knew that there are lots of bad reviews on your server. If you yourself can't recall what you did wrong, now that's the real problem. Very unhealthy for a leader or a GM on a server.

Quote from: NovaRagnarok on Jan 12, 2015, 01:29 AM

And haha, I just saw this:

That was obviously me playing around and taken completely out of context, which seems to be a pattern here.
Do you honestly believe something typed in all caps was meant to be taken seriously?


I'm loving the hypocrisy here. You can "play around" while your players can't. Of course, who would mute a GM. Everybody will just kiss your *ss.  /omg

Elemental91

QuoteI'm loving the hypocrisy here. You can "play around" while your players can't. Of course, who would mute a GM. Everybody will just kiss your *ss.[/color]  /omg

Yeah, because joking around once is obviously the same as abusing #main every single day. Lol.

NovaRagnarok

#20



Having more novices than any other class is standard. People save names.
Here's screenshots from two other similarly sized servers. Stop grasping at straws.

There's literally one bad review on RMS, and it was written by the OP's sister.

There's also such a thing as going too far. I'm not sorry I have a sense of humor and feel comfortable joking around with my players, and I also don't punish people for these things. And if someone goes overboard I make sure to give them a friendly warning before any further action is taken.

HobbesWasRight

Summation of topic if those who don't want to read it:

OP is throwing a fit over getting banned for acting incredibly stupid.  Admins respond with logical fallacies.

Innomite

I kinda fail to see the point in spying Guild Chat.
For the love of Ragnarok Online!

Bue

Quote from: NovaRagnarok on Jan 12, 2015, 01:29 AM
And you're honestly believing 100% of what a player who was banned from the server is typing?
...

Whats going on here isn't new at all.

Don't get caught up on playing admin.

#1. You've already told us that you're neither a system administrator nor a software engineer. Saying that you overhaul source code is a bit dramatic, especially when Athena is written in C. Otherwise, I would like to see you contribute to the repository, we'll need more people like you if that's the case. Athena isn't a perfect implementation of Ragnarok, just because you sync your repo doesn't mean you've fixed all your problems. (Ask playtester.)

#2. Unless you've a near perfect understanding and memorized all the game mechanics by heart, don't touch the battle configuration settings. If you do, then you need to re-balance the game content, otherwise your server is open for exploitation. And if you do re-balance the game content, then I hope you've analyze the database (/db) for metrics in doing so.

#3. Free daily rewards is simply a bad idea, unless these rewards are restrictive to the same account. It is not difficult to automate the entire process, if scriptkiddies get a hold of it, then this opens the Pandora box.

The fact that these guys can outsmart your systems and look for exploits on your server makes them very valuable.

And you don't need to necessarily go out of your way to prove them wrong; be decisive and leave it at that.

If you can at least acknowledge that there are some problems that lead to all this, then you should go and fixed that first.

You're only wasting your time here.

Tande

tl;dr - bad GMs poorly handle situations of bad players and don't realize the terrible design/gameplay designs they stole from other places (or perhaps even made themselves ugh)
you're welcome those who didn't want to read that wall of text

if this was handled by people with decent managerial skills then maybe it wouldn't be so outrageous, but this is the internet where a 16 year old can be in charge of a pack of brs and pinoys for the low low price of 20 buxxx a month (vps) and all the time they have to waste in their parents basement working on code/scripts they don't even understand  (and then complain that the 'donations' barely cover 'minimum wage' for their 'work')
http://www.agharta.info  Agharta Dev - for your mapping and scripting needs

http://www.project-deimos.com  Project Deimos - an upcoming roleplaying server.

NovaRagnarok

Interesting. If nothing else, I'll agree with the statement that I'm wasting my time replying to every thing being said.
I've yet to contribute much to rAthena but it's something I've considered doing more, though I can say I've at least contributed once.
And the last thing, I wasn't going out of my way to prove them wrong, I was trying to reason with them. But it seems that's considered being a bad admin somehow.
I'll stick to my methods, which have been working fairly great for me so far.

The second part of Tande's post seems completely out of place as well. But I guess this is Rant and Rave right?

Bue

#26
Quote from: Tande on Jan 12, 2015, 10:48 PM
all the time they have to waste in their parents basement working on code/scripts they don't even understand

I'm so envious. Imagine not having to pay your mortgage, car payments, taxes, insurances, and utilities.

Sit around, watch anime, internet all day every day, and part time overlord on an mmorpg.

Quote from: NovaRagnarok on Jan 12, 2015, 11:07 PM
Interesting. If nothing else, I'll agree with the statement that I'm wasting my time replying to every thing being said.

In threads like these, showing some humility will gain you support and sympathy almost all the time.

Initial posters with bias on your server will back right off.

Opposition will realize there are consequences for their actions.

Had the initial response been:

"I'll admit that we have made some mistakes and the entire situation could have been handled better, but we're working hard on fixing the damages done on our server and the exploits these players were using. XYZ, I'll change the ban to X days for all three of you but <insert compromise and last chance here>."

You opened up an opportunity for them to make amends.

You show us and your team that you can be a leader.

You man up and continue to work hard.

You gain respect.

Things would have ended up differently and we would all be impress.

That's too bad though, I thought there was hope you actually learnt from RedditRO.

Gankare

Quote from: NovaRagnarok on Jan 12, 2015, 11:07 PM

And the last thing, I wasn't going out of my way to prove them wrong, I was trying to reason with them. But it seems that's considered being a bad admin somehow.
I'll stick to my methods, which have been working fairly great for me so far.

You honestly feel like what you've been doing has been working fairly well? Interesting, especially when you...

discriminate anyone who doesn't share you opinion.

harass people that knows more than you.

try to act superior by pushing down the people around you.

are condescending towards everyone except your friends.

and finally,

try to censor everything that makes you look bad.

These are some fine qualities. You are a lot of other things as well. But how can you expect anyone to believe you when you can't even admit your own mistakes and then you try to put all the blame on your community?

Be the leader you would like to follow. I have a hard time believing you're happy with how things went. All matters can be solved in different ways and your way is not working "fairly great".

eieiron

Quote from: Gankare on Jan 13, 2015, 03:27 AM
how can you expect anyone to believe you when you can't even admit your own mistakes and then you try to put all the blame on your community?

Seems a bit rich coming from you /heh

Hummingbird

Quote from: NovaRagnarok on Jan 12, 2015, 11:07 PM
Interesting. If nothing else, I'll agree with the statement that I'm wasting my time replying to every thing being said.
I've yet to contribute much to rAthena but it's something I've considered doing more, though I can say I've at least contributed once.

I'll stick to my methods, which have been working fairly great for me so far.

Alright, keep it up. You go stick with your own methods. You just wait for another week or month and another negative thread about Nova ragnarok will come out from some of your players.

Quote from: NovaRagnarok on Jan 12, 2015, 11:07 PM

And the last thing, I wasn't going out of my way to prove them wrong, I was trying to reason with them. But it seems that's considered being a bad admin somehow.


Drop the act. It pisses me off. How you handle the problem on your server is so stupid. You act like the front liner and makes a good impression to everyone and your partner in crime which is GM Green is the one that has bad impression. You go reason with some of your players and giving them assurance that nothing bad will happen but in the end of the day, you will do the opposite and will say " i have discuss or talk with my co gm's and blah blah blah" "so we decided to blah blah".

Quote from: Innomite on Jan 12, 2015, 06:53 PM
I kinda fail to see the point in spying Guild Chat.

We are also aware that they can read guild chats. I lost my screnshot when one of the GM said "i know you guys think im stupid" and im like "how can you say that" then GM Green replied "because i've been reading your guild chat and blah blah".

Before the incident happened, i think we have a discussion on the guild a week ago about him being incompetent. They've been reading our chats like everyday looking for some dirt or something that will make my guild mates look bad so he can ban them. They are waiting for that opportunity to happen.