Anthemro (final review)

[Gemerafa]

Gemerafa
Those kind of reactions are unneeded. They set a base for derailment, please don't do it again.

I'm sorry, Relics, for unintendedly baiting another player into derailing this thread. On the forums where I come from, posting a "Cool Story, Bro" pic as well as pointing out the fact that banned players and haters usually tend to create their own "truth," wouldn't really be considered as hijacking or derailing a topic. For me, the internet is not so much serious business, so I feel like it's no big deal to sometimes make fun of someone, as long as it keeps within a limit, and doesn't turn over into insults or flaming. In this thread, we're discussing about a freaking game after all!
Besides, in all honesty, what is this section about?
"Members of the community are expected analyze and give opinion on the topic rather than ask for proof"
"Proof to support your claim is not required"
"You are banned for whatever reason you think is unjustified"

Come on, there's basically "DRAMA SECTION" written all over it. You cannot expect any serious and objective discussions about an issue, a server, or a GM, started by someone who was banned, or holds any other grudges against the server, its past, or its owner's dog. We, as Ragnarok players, all know that banned players always think of themselves as victims of GM corruption or any other conspiracies. Getting unbanned for paying money, or getting someone banned for money? Lol, has anyone who made these assumptions actually tried it? For the lulz, all you banned players out there, contact your GMs, offer them a nice sum of money, and then post some chat logs or screenshots here as evidence. Again, this is a section where proof isn't needed, but on the other hand, that means I can start any rumor about any server, just for whatever stupid reason there may be (no, of course I won't do it as I don't see myself as childish as certain other people).
Also, I wouldn't call it a personal vendetta if you simply disagree with the OP, and try to point out what kind of person he or she is.

I am not disagreeing with your decision as a moderator, not at all. After all, I am not a regular visitor to RMS, and I only created this forum account yesterday. It's alright if it's a bit stricter around here, and I mean it, I'm not saying this in a sarcastic or ironic manner, as we can all adapt. I'm just wondering that, as a topic starter in this section, one seems to enjoy immunity to a certain degree (for example re-opening the thread), when it is clear that the topic starter is not serious at all.

Back on topic: Lol, Denia, how much time has already passed since you left the server as a GM? It's truly a shame that because of all that unnecessary drama, you're being dragged back into this stuff.
As far as bensei is concerned, before anyone tries to get an idea of what is going on, at first, one should get an idea of who this player is. As a mostly impartial and quiet listener, I noticed him posting in and starting a lot of topics in the "Ranter" section, mostly about PvP wars and donations. For the first part, it is more or less obvious that PvP rants are only there for instigating drama, and for the second part, as a donator himself, he felt insulted if someone was ranting about "donationwhores." As he's already mentioned in this thread, he now feels bad about defending the whole donation system. Also, a few years in the past, he always seemed to be around one other ex-player called Elements who him- or herself (?) started a lot of drama back in the old days, and by analyzing this reaction and behavior, it seems like bensei is only trying to imitate Elements.
Why am I mentioning this? Obviously, as far as I am concerned, the OP isn't serious about warning other players, or pointing to doubtful practices, because, in fact, to me it looks like his personal vendetta against the server, or the server owner, thus, bending the truth a bit to fit his needs. This was made even more evident after a few comments of him, such as "PS: does anyone know how to report a server to gravity?", and so on. Of course, a topic about corruption and donations and money attracts the usual people, such as Lynn Leblanc, Serenity, and the usual donation server haters, since they all know what is going on behind the scenes (hint: that was sarcasm). I've yet to see a neutral player complain about being banned unjustifiedly; yes, with this comment, I imply that I strongly believe that the people who cry the loudest (Lynn, Serenity) were involved in doubtful practices themselves. This is obviously not part of the topic at hand, so hopefully, it isn't discussed any futher.

Why would players actually care what happens with the money they donated, as long as the server owner keeps the server up, and provides the player with the promised rewards? Is the server owner supposed to throw the money that he gets after paying the bills into the trash bin? The Ragnarok community would be a lot more friendlier if there was more effort put into getting rid of all the drama lamas, instead of even offering them breeding ground.

tl;dr
I don't suppose anyone is going to read this wall of text made by a poor 1 post poster, when the OP has got a nice avatar, as well as 135 posts and a sleek title called "Imperial," but at least I tried. For justice, against drama!!

[Temjin]

I'm sorry, Relics, for unintendedly baiting another player into derailing this thread. On the forums where I come from, posting a "Cool Story, Bro" pic as well as pointing out the fact that banned players and haters usually tend to create their own "truth," wouldn't really be considered as hijacking or derailing a topic.

Sorry, but anybody who willingly browses 4Chan (cheers for upholding Rules 1 and 2, by the way, but no dice) really should be discredited after they say well...anything.

Also, I'm not a player of AnthemRO. I'd like to preserve what precious little dignity I have left.

What I am, however, is somebody who doesn't like hearing lying and cover-ups over one of the most obvious scams of Ragnarok Online, ever.

Why would players actually care what happens with the money they donated, as long as the server owner keeps the server up, and provides the player with the promised rewards? Is the server owner supposed to throw the money that he gets after paying the bills into the trash bin? The Ragnarok community would be a lot more friendlier if there was more effort put into getting rid of all the drama lamas, instead of even offering them breeding ground.

That's dependent on who you ask. You'll find the player here and there who really doesn't care. A majority will disagree and actually care. Reason being: You are not donating to that Admin's bank account. You are donating to the server. Keeping it up is one thing. Keeping it up and then pocketing the overhead is another. Especially when there's many things that still have to be done to whatever RO server it is. It's a shady practice, and that's why it's a very touchy subject on RMS. Financial struggle or not, what has happened cannot remain in the past: AEGIS is illegal and Anima/Anthem made bank on it.

What is the server owner supposed to do? Smart money says they should keep the funds on lockdown until needed, such as say...server upgrade when player maximum count increases, better connections, more efficient advertising, etc.; the possibilities are limitless, but pocketing it and/or spending it on a new car/PS3/whatever should be out of the question.

Does that mean these Admins are bad people? Not necessarily, they just made a bad choice. Does that mean it shouldn't be spotlighted? Hell no. Once money is involved, drama WILL be generated if it is being misused. I mean, let's be rational for a second: Ragnarok Online, in the private sector, is a GAME and NOT a business. And there's the contradiction in your post: We ARE discussing a game. However, there are people who take that game and attempt to turn it into a business. You can't say one thing and then go backwards and say "Who cares what they do with the money".

Ragnarok Online would be better without the drama. It would also be better without greedy admins and owners looking to get rich quick by ripping off players.

[Ayu]

Eh let's not use the "legal/illegal" thing as if we haven't been through that giant circular talk from all the art theft and client talk and whatnot already in other threads.

You'll think that the admins and GM team will try to lower the maintenance cost instead of just finding more ways for donations to keep the server afloat though? As a total outsider to anthem/talon, I think that's the part that irks me the most. If the admin isn't "greedy" for donations and the maintenance cost has always been this high, why didn't he/she do something to lower the cost when there's still a bit of money left? From other threads in RMS, it's not like they are uninformed about the situation and I think Denia even said that he tried to convince the admin to switch over to eA to solve this problem long time ago. Currently, Anthem is just patching a well-known problem, instead of solving the problem at its roots.

It's almost as if the conversion is not done because a justification is necessary for all these services and other donation gears... I can't help but raise suspicion about it, really. It's probably extremely difficult of a conversion to eA, but to me it sounds like they (used to) have a well supportive and knowledgeable GM team who will hep the admin through these technical difficulty too.

[Gemerafa]

Sorry, but anybody who willingly browses 4Chan (cheers for upholding Rules 1 and 2, by the way, but no dice) really should be discredited after they say well...anything.

I don't willingly browse 4chan, my good sir, but if you browse the internet and its forums for a while, you will inevitabliy come across at least one or two memes, but it's funny that I induce that thought. Anyway, who really cares?

Also, I'm not a player of AnthemRO. I'd like to preserve what precious little dignity I have left.

What I am, however, is somebody who doesn't like hearing lying and cover-ups over one of the most obvious scams of Ragnarok Online, ever.

Oi, Wikipedia is asking for donations! Damn, it's a scam, and they're just trying to make a business out of "providing free content." ... it's the very same thing. You can label anything asking for donations a scam on the internet. If you believe it or not, it's your thing. After all, it's called a donation, and not pay2play, so you could just ignore the requests from those "greedy" server owners.

What is the server owner supposed to do? Smart money says they should keep the funds on lockdown until needed, such as say...server upgrade when player maximum count increases, better connections, more efficient advertising, etc.; the possibilities are limitless, but pocketing it and/or spending it on a new car/PS3/whatever should be out of the question.

Who says this hasn't been done? Some time last year, there was an upgrade where they bought one other server machine, and installed a firewall. This costed yet another 500 or 1000 bucks, and one of the GMs posted they have like 10 or 12 servers? Including test servers, web server, download servers, and stuff I don't remember and know about. Considering that it's the cheapest way to pay the hoster once a year, can you imagine how much money has to be paid in one batch? I don't think that there is a constant flow of donations anymore, each month. Keep in mind that if you pay for better connections each time there is more money than you need, the monthly or yearly costs will also increase, which makes it harder to "survive" in the future.

Does that mean these Admins are bad people? Not necessarily, they just made a bad choice. Does that mean it shouldn't be spotlighted? Hell no. Once money is involved, drama WILL be generated if it is being misused. I mean, let's be rational for a second: Ragnarok Online, in the private sector, is a GAME and NOT a business. And there's the contradiction in your post: We ARE discussing a game. However, there are people who take that game and attempt to turn it into a business. You can't say one thing and then go backwards and say "Who cares what they do with the money".

Ragnarok Online would be better without the drama. It would also be better without greedy admins and owners looking to get rich quick by ripping off players.

Of course, drama goes hand in hand with money. In this thread, though, it is just used as an excuse to defame the server by the OP, and apparently, has nothing to do with the problem at hand.

Besides, as soon as I have to pay a fee for server hosting, and pay taxes for something, it's a freaking business for me, and I'd like to get something out of it after all, if I were a/the server owner. Of course, the primary goal for each server owner should be the wish to create a platform for players to play on, however, if I have to pay out of my own pockets for it, I want to get something for my efforts as well.
For players, it SHOULD stay a game, however, since there are always ex-players/ex-GMs trying to be cool by spreading stuff about corruption and so on, these players will involve others in their crusade to defame the server.
Everyone who STILL isn't over AnthemRO's past (i.e. AnimaRO), may kindly leave this thread and can go join forces with Serenity or someone else, and create nice little stories about the "truth" pertaining the present.
You all seem like accusing the CURRENT server owner, Talis, of creating this mess of donations and AEGIS and MVP cards. As far as I know, he was just the one to take over after something happened with the old owner/GMs (?). If the server was in a more or less good shape, and players wanted to play (after all, take a server down for a few months, and you'll lose 99% of the players), why not ... just continune with what was given to you? If you lead a server because you like to offer the players a platform to play on, and while you're doing this, you can earn money, it's a win-win situation, both for the players and the owner, isn't it, since you can regard it as a job, to administer a server? Especially when a lot of donators only donate to buy something from the item shop, basically they simply BUY something from the server, they don't really care what happens to their money. Those kind of players don't donate because they want to support the server, or keep it up.

EVERYONE who earns money out there in the big world, "misuses" it, at least from one person's point of view. For me, the whole stuff with "I am the upholder of moral standards, and I shallst punish thee for paying thy living expenses with the donation money!" is just an excuse to cause drama because you felt disadvantaged at one point, and it's wasted energy.

You'll think that the admins and GM team will try to lower the maintenance cost instead of just finding more ways for donations to keep the server afloat though? As a total outsider to anthem/talon, I think that's the part that irks me the most. If the admin isn't "greedy" for donations and the maintenance cost has always been this high, why didn't he/she do something to lower the cost when there's still a bit of money left? From other threads in RMS, it's not like they are uninformed about the situation and I think Denia even said that he tried to convince the admin to switch over to eA to solve this problem long time ago. Currently, Anthem is just patching a well-known problem, instead of solving the problem at its roots.

It's almost as if the conversion is not done because a justification is necessary for all these services and other donation gears... I can't help but raise suspicion about it, really. It's probably extremely difficult of a conversion to eA, but to me it sounds like they (used to) have a well supportive and knowledgeable GM team who will hep the admin through these technical difficulty too.

I think the problem in this case was that the money that was saved up to this point was all lost, and paypal donations were out of question as their account was deleted, so to me, it looks like, suddenly, they lost money as well as the only way of income. Why wouldn't you then look for alternative ways for income?
I don't know how to lower the maintenance costs, but - call me stupid - how would a change to this other server software, eAthena, work out? After all, you still have to host servers to run it on, and the bandwidth will not decrease, I think?
I think we will see how it works out, after all, they are now trying to change the server software, but it does not really look and feel the same, after what I have read in a few discussions and reports?

Basically, to what it boils down in this thread is, if you believe someone or not. Disagreeing with a server owner or the way a server is led, is ok, I think, but making your own "truth" up and spreading it, is not ok.

[DeePee]

I don't know how to lower the maintenance costs, but - call me stupid - how would a change to this other server software, eAthena, work out? After all, you still have to host servers to run it on, and the bandwidth will not decrease, I think?

A couple of things.

1. AEGIS is programmed extremely inefficient and thus requires multiple powerful servers to run stable. eAthena is a lot more efficient and can basically run on only one machine, heck, even on someone's home computer.
2. AEGIS only runs on Windows and a MSSQL database. This all increases the rental price of the servers. eAthena can run on Linux and MySQL, which do not have any license costs.

Example: on AEGIS, aRO will need like 3 powerful servers, costing 1000-2000$ a month. If they are on eAthena, they only need 1 server, costing maybe 250$ a month.

[DarkDevine]

With their current player amount they would need like a 40$-Server

[DeePee]

They're still one of the bigger low rates out there, so yeah.

[GorthexTiger]

I don't know how to lower the maintenance costs, but - call me stupid - how would a change to this other server software, eAthena, work out? After all, you still have to host servers to run it on, and the bandwidth will not decrease, I think?

A couple of things.

1. AEGIS is programmed extremely inefficient and thus requires multiple powerful servers to run stable. eAthena is a lot more efficient and can basically run on only one machine, heck, even on someone's home computer.
2. AEGIS only runs on Windows and an MSSQL database. This all increases the rental price of the servers. eAthena can run on Linux and MySQL, which do not have any license costs.

Example: on AEGIS, aRO will need like 3 powerful servers, costing 1000-2000$ a month. If they are on eAthena, they only need 1 server, costing maybe 250$ a month.

QFT

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AEGIS_(Ragnarok_Online)

I wish I could make out a s*** ton of money to upgrade my PC and be all cool like you guys with the latest hip techno stuff, but I can run an eA test server + MySQL database + my RO client (which for some reason consumes a lot of ram) on 1 GB of RAM and still be able to do other things while I'm screwing around.

Now I know you are all blown away by my computer's specs (/sarcasm) but DeePee is absolutely right. I think the starting usage, for eA, is around 150~200MB of RAM. Nothing a cheap VPS can't provide.

[Denia]

Well, again, that's what they're doing now. Though once again, a bit late for that now. I guess the mindset was, "If it isn't broken, don't fix it." Besides, Talis likes Aegis/gameplay/etc. Although once again, as the wikipedia had said it, it takes up a lot of resources and isn't very... good coding. A big problem I think they would have faced back then when they had "coders/scripters/devs" which were "capable" would be that they would leave in a very short amount of time, in which case, they would have been left with mid transition. It could be argued once again though, that it may happen now. Though, the people doing the switch, are a GM and Talis the server owner I think.

Anyway! Below are a couple of my cc statements! Whee! (I really don't think you need to know where I'm eating and stuff lol.)

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9825/ccstatement1.jpg
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/9044/ccstatement2.jpg

Will post more as I get it... kind of takes a bit of time and effort to do as such ya know lol. Oh yeah, car was sold for 5k on paper, you know, to lessen the burden of taxes and registration for the new owner. Man, California charges like $1,000 ish now if you buy a $5,000 car - wtf? I bought my car new in 2004, and I think registration for me was like $300 at most! I'm just glad I paid it off by 2009. That full coverage is pricey.

[GorthexTiger]

Well, again, that's what they're doing now. Though once again, a bit late for that now. I guess the mindset was, "If it isn't broken, don't fix it." Besides, Talis likes Aegis/gameplay/etc. Although once again, as the wikipedia had said it, it takes up a lot of resources and isn't very... good coding. A big problem I think they would have faced back then when they had "coders/scripters/devs" which were "capable" would be that they would leave in a very short amount of time, in which case, they would have been left with mid transition. It could be argued once again though, that it may happen now. Though, the people doing the switch, are a GM and Talis the server owner I think.

Anyway! Below are a couple of my cc statements! Whee! (I really don't think you need to know where I'm eating and stuff lol.)

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9825/ccstatement1.jpg
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/9044/ccstatement2.jpg

Will post more as I get it... kind of takes a bit of time and effort to do as such ya know lol. Oh yeah, car was sold for 5k on paper, you know, to lessen the burden of taxes and registration for the new owner. Man, California charges like $1,000 ish now if you buy a $5,000 car - wtf? I bought my car new in 2004, and I think registration for me was like $300 at most! I'm just glad I paid it off by 2009. That full coverage is pricey.

Anything under $5k on the value of a car can be transfered as a "gift", that doesn't have to be claimed on taxes, and the only thing you gotta pay is the transfer fee.

:\

[Denia]

That's the only thing, the worth of the car was more than $5,000. Besides, the buyer wanted to do it that way since he thought it would be the easiest thing and least 'suspicious' I guess? That and that was what was left on the lien on the car, so it was just a nice and even number anyway. That part doesn't matter to me much anyways, I mean, it's the buyer's responsibility, I just thought it would be nice to comply since he was a college student and I was just trying to get rid of the car quickly.

Anyway though, I gave my dad my old beater car a while ago, which was maybe worth 1.5k at the very most, and that's if he fixed up the tires/transmission and stuff; and they still charged him quite a bit in transfer fees from what he said, like $300ish or so since it's dependent on the value of the car (year make and model I think?) It's still pretty pricey.

Lol, a bit off topic there.

[Mushu]

Aww the old times on animaRO and all the damn drama that came along with one of the most messed up servers in the history of private servers. This server stopped being a $$ farm after Debbie 'died' which I still don't know WTF that means. (I'd like to speak to Serenity about wtf went on with that server) Give up and move on. If anyone wants to make a server that is similar to animaRO in every aspect but has very limited donations and no autoloot, I would play! The SQIs and Kahos were imbalanced but they made RO 100x more fun.

[LemonCrosswalk]

We did give it up and move on since the thread was two months old.