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Offline Zhin

A message from AvidRO's Head GM
« on: Jun 09, 2014, 02:43 AM »
Okay so here's the thing. To say it simply: Avid should not be running servers.

That isn't to say he's not good at what he does. What he -does- is fantastic. He's a good administrator, and he knows how to do the basic things like... Starting the server. And he's really good at buying new things to put into it, like maps and customized hats, and he knows how to put these things into the server and pile new things into the KCP shop. What he's -not- good at is, first of all, testing what he puts in. That's one thing. The other thing he's really bad at is telling the rest of his staff members that he's putting it in.

The latter is his biggest issue.

Hi, I'm NiHZ. I was Head GM for about 3-4 months on AvidRO. In this time, I spoke to Avid so seldom that I often felt like I was running the server alone. Many times, I would message him things and receive no reply. For a long time I assumed that this was just because he was so busy, and I forgave him for it, but then I started to realize that he simply didn't answer me when he didn't want to disagree with something or make a decision. As if he didn't want to argue. He didn't want to discuss things, not even a little bit. On occasions, when I asked him questions about things -- or he asked me questions about something -- he would just tell me it's up to me, then disregard it later. The simplest example is when I first started; he asked me to make a list of headgears to put into the KCP shop. I asked him whether or not he wanted 'Well Chewed Pencil' because the forum topic was split on the issue of it being too OP. So, I decided not to put it in.

Later, he said he wanted more headgears in the KCP shop. I told him that I was uncomfortable putting many more in, as I had looked and discarded a lot that seemed a little over the top for what we had going on in the server. He didn't argue, or even say anything at all, but he did go to one of my Helpers and ask them to make a list instead, and suddenly there was a whole buttload of new headgears in the KCP shop -- including that well chewed pencil that I had discarded the first time around.

Now, this isn't the only issue. No. Let's do another one.

When I first started, one of the first things I did was rewrite the rules. Our rules were always a bare-bones minimum of 'don't do this'. They were exploitable. Massively so. They were very simple, and people who give a s*** would of course just not be ****, but this is the internet and unless rules are very specific and cover as many loopholes as possible, you're going to get those people who abuse them. So I rewrote them with explanations and penalties and added a few rules that were sorely needed. I asked Avid if I could put them on the forum and he told me he would look at them first. I thought, well, of course. He would want to make sure they're good, and that they cover all the bases, and that they would fit our needs as a server and that they were what he, as the owner of the server, would want.

I don't know how many times I asked him to approve them. Even when he asked for a 'to-do list' for when he was on vacation, I added it, and he never said a thing about it. I don't know if he just ignored it, or if it was too long for him to put aside 10 minutes to read it, or if he just didn't like them and didn't want to say so. Whatever the case, one of my GMs went and wrote some nice rules a few months later, and Avid never said anything about those, either.

Should we do another? Okay.

I wanted to hire a GM. I added him to our staff chat, sent Avid a message to give him an account, and two weeks later Avid still hadn't made him one. Partly my fault, I suppose after a week I should have said something, but you would assume that the owner of the server would wonder who this new guy was in the chatroom. after a few days. The would-be GM said he was no longer interested by then, and with that example of professionalism, I don't blame him.

Hmm... Another?

Harmony should have been installed from the beginning. What the f***, Avid.

It keeps going~

Our Developer quit. Yeah, you wanna know why our Dev quit? Did you guys know he quit? He was our dev. He was responsible for building a Battlegrounds system from scratch and he made us a sexy guild package NPC. Well, one day, we were talking about an idea for an event with NPCs. I mentioned that I would pass it along to our Dev, but Avid very quickly said 'No, our Dev isn't available for a few weeks.'

Well, okay. That's fine.

Eventually, I talked to our Dev. He told me that he had been available all this time, of course, and trying to get a hold of Avid. Apparently, he was moving, and told Avid not to bother him for the -THREE DAYS- when he was moving. So, NATURALLY, Avid kept on pestering him for those three days, while our Dev was trying to move. Dev continually asked him to stop asking him to do things until he was done moving, but Avid simply continued to ask him to deliver work. Then, once our Dev was finished moving, Avid completely ignored him for the next couple of weeks. Turns out, Avid owed him a bit of money for the extra NPCs he had done. Ohoho alright then.

Lying to us was just fantastic.

Let's do another one!

Apparently, Avid had another server before this one. It turns out, he and his cousin run a looot of servers, for various things. The last server they had shut down because, Avid told me, his cousin screwed it up on him.

A couple weeks later, he brings his cousin in and gives him level 99 Admin powers. :3c Oh my, how lovely. Can you imagine how excited I was about this? I didn't even have enough GM power to run a simple event -- I couldn't even trade items as the Head GM, haha! -- but here comes this guy who Avid just finished telling me was responsible for his last server shutting down.

Well, he stuck around for all of four days. In that time, he recalled an entire map full of our developer's alchemists to him -- about 20 characters, heh -- because he thought they might be botting. They were afkhemists, but we had no rules against that. He also f*** with some map effects, disguised the entire vending map, and when I told him not to go recalling parties of people to him he told me exactly who was in charge. That's how much help he was.

Should I keep going?

How about when we changed all of the Valor and Bravery Badges to Battle Badges?

Yeah, I don't think anybody enjoyed that. Least of all, me. I tried defending it until someone told me the logic behind why everyone was pissed off about it, and suddenly I understood. When I spoke in Main and promised that next time we would warn everyone before doing such a major change, and perhaps ask for player input on how to implement it, Avid contradicted me and told everyone that if we did it that way, it would never get done.

Sure, okay. But don't f*** argue with me about it in public chat while I'm trying to apologise to our players for the inconvenience your s*** is causing, Avid.

I told him as much in private, and he just argued with me. I liked his idea, but none of the staff -- let alone players -- were warned about this change coming up. Just as usual. He never tells his staff anything that he's doing. It just suddenly -happens-. He told me 'it took me 16 hours to change this' and that he was going to do it whether or not a few people were going to be butthurt. He didn't realize that the entire server was pissed off about this. I asked him to just let us know when he's working on something as big as this so that we can -discuss- it. He replied after a while and just said "fine I'll tell you everything that I do from now on".

I'll let you know now, he didn't, but you know what, whatever. This is when I dropped the last of the f*** that I had for the server all over the floor.

Here's the last thing.

I don't want you to think that this is all just me being butthurt over some lost wages, but:

After I started, he told me that he would pay me on the first of the month every month. "$50 a month on the first."

Well, I had to remind him every month. I didn't expect money when I started -- I've never been paid for being a GM or an Admin on any server on any game anywhere, so why would I expect it? -- but he had promised it, so I very politely let him know on the 10th or so that he hadn't sent me the money yet and that this was my paypal account and thanks again.

The next month I waited until the 20th.

The next month I just didn't ask. If we're counting up until now, he still owes me $100. I never really cared too much, not really, but it just irks me that on top of all of the frustration I've gone through with this server, he couldn't be bothered to pay me what he said he would and I would spend the days up until he did pay me worrying over whether or not I should remind him or just let it go because I didn't agree to be Head GM for the money, it was just a volunteer thing.

I didn't get the ability to do events until about three months into being Head GM, and I have got to say that the amount of time wasted there is amazing, while people asked and asked and asked for events. Even when I could do it, I could barely do it -- the best I could do was Hide and Seek and disguise events. Eventually I got @item and a few more commands and I could actually summon monsters and do more elaborate events. And that took a great many players and my GMs pleading with him to give me a little more responsibility and power. 

For a long time I spent every spare moment on this stupid server. I wasted so much time and effort and frustration and I don't know why. I should have known from the very beginning, when Avid didn't respond to my "First day report and questions" PM on the forums after my first night being the Head GM, that this was a bad place to be.

But I didn't.

I wasted my time.

Everyone who put money into this server wasted their cash.

The server is dead because the server's owner doesn't have the ability to communicate. No, actually, I'm not entirely sure why it's dead.

Guess why?

Yep. Cuz I haven't heard a damn thing from him.


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Offline Nekogami

Re: A message from AvidRO's Head GM
« Reply #1 on: Jun 09, 2014, 03:45 AM »
I didn't really took the time to check out  AvidRO, but i've been on a similar situation myself a few years back when i decided to help a "friend" to run a server. Though, in my case i wasn't the Head-GM, i was the Co-Admin and even helped paying the host/etc for the first few months. At the beginning was just like what happened to you, lack of communication and professionalism. Then 4 months later, after all the time and money i had spent, i caught him on player account, with edited gears, killing players on PvP.
With this the little patience i still had vanished, so i banned his player account and during the time he took to log on his Admin account to see what was going on i told the whole server what was happening. One week later, the server that had 200~250 players simply closed because everyone quit.
So, I know how it feels when you put that much time and effort on a server and it gets screwed because the owner doesn't give a damn. I'm really sorry you had to go through this. :/

Offline yC

Re: A message from AvidRO's Head GM
« Reply #2 on: Jun 09, 2014, 09:29 AM »
Why do you say the server is dead?  The website says It's online?

I think at least the avid-ro.com mail server is down because I just got a delivery-failure notice on an email sent there.  That's why I read this topic thinking something happened there.

Such a long read but sometimes I feel these behaviors are unbelievable yet happen to server admin/owner over and over again in history.  Both in the cases of Nekogami and Zhin's stories.

Couple points I want to make about that long post.

1.  It seems you being the "head-gm" is still not anywhere near his contact list on server matters, you are merely just another "free" volunteer that take care of the in-game community and to show "GM care" in the server.  That means, you are as good as a paper human figure greeter (I mean, the way he sees you).  This is witnessed in the lack of GM power and the lack of discussion / communication you had been treated with.  Yes you shouldn't bother after the first night.

2.  About the bothering the dev for 3 days and then ignores him.  Is that a way to get out of the debt he owes?  I can't comprehend that action. 

3.  Your side of the story painted Avid like this:  He is most concerned about the cash shop aspect of the server, ignores the community, leave in-game issue to in-game GMs and don't care about everything else.  Well this sound a lot like many others we have heard or known.

You give me the impression of a very responsible and caring GM, which is good to have in any server.  But I can tell you that some people consider your type of GM are easily replaceable because the "caring" skills isn't technical and people with a lot of time and wanna be GM aren't that hard to find.  Of course there are good ones and bad ones, let them try and see.





Offline Najara

Re: A message from AvidRO's Head GM
« Reply #3 on: Jun 09, 2014, 12:59 PM »
I'm very sorry to hear that this has happened to you.

To be completely honest, I do not know how AvidRO has grown so much like it did, I'm actually pretty curious about that.
Avid never exactly appeared to be a mature person to me. I think I contacted him once, because he was looking for a person to do something for his server, but my message was completely ignored. Like, not even "No sorry, I already found someone for it.". Nope, completely ignored.

Ha, disregard what I've said. I suppose I'm still offended by the fact that he has been taking credits for my (and my friends') custom maps... oh well.

[ Map Designer || 3D Modelist ]

[ Retired rAthena Staff Member [2013 ~ 2017] ]

Got a server? -> Download my maps! <-


Offline Seffi ❤

Re: A message from AvidRO's Head GM
« Reply #4 on: Jun 09, 2014, 11:31 PM »
This really reminds me of my experience on AthereaRO. The lack of communication and not having the power to fix problems. The funny thing about that is you replaced me when I left Atherea, and I remember you telling me about how you immediately regretted it lol! I'm really sorry you had to go through that a second time, especially on such a larger scale. I know you put a lot of time into Avid, and I know how it feels to have your time wasted, promises broken, and the feeling that all of it was for nothing. Hopefully you can look beyond it and see the pros and cons to the situation though. I'm sure you learned a lot from your experiences, at least.

Offline yittoo

Re: A message from AvidRO's Head GM
« Reply #5 on: Jun 10, 2014, 07:25 AM »
lel. i was one of the leaders of a major guild in avid, all i can say avid either left server alone (cuz donations are good and all) and let the population drop or worked very hard on his own after what done is done (guilds quit etc).

GJ avid.

Offline Nekoruchii

Re: A message from AvidRO's Head GM
« Reply #6 on: Jun 10, 2014, 10:01 AM »
I somehow had a similar experience but it does not involve any cash and yours and Seffi's are worse than mine. Anyways, you can have your rest now, Nihz. I could see how much effort you had gave in for AvidRO. Because, from the history that Avid had, obviously he's doing it the same right now and obviously it would happen again for cash making purposes~

Nekoruchii // Celeenee // Lastein // Mejichuu // Zaphrine // Rine

Offline yC

Re: A message from AvidRO's Head GM
« Reply #7 on: Jun 10, 2014, 10:40 AM »
I was just reminded that Avid is actually someone else that ran some other servers 1-2 years ago.  I believe he also runs one of the newer top site at the moment, which I am not too happy about its name.  Maybe that helped the traffic to his server a little and what's keeping him busy.

Offline Zhin

Re: A message from AvidRO's Head GM
« Reply #8 on: Jun 10, 2014, 10:15 PM »
Quote
Why do you say the server is dead?  The website says It's online?

At the time of writing, the website was down, and had been for a while by my understanding. Honestly, I hadn't been on in a week, but by the staff chat and shoutbox that I could see, it had been down several days. I can't be sure. But what I mean by 'Dead' is that we went from 500+ players online to 70. Most of the drop came after the adjustment to WoE times -- again, never consulting staff and simply taking the poll results on the forum at face value instead of thinking about it logically and not slapping in the top three results -- and the failure to implement the Battlegrounds badges in a more player-friendly manner.

Quote
To be completely honest, I do not know how AvidRO has grown so much like it did, I'm actually pretty curious about that.

I was discussing this with someone the other day. I believe the only way AvidRO got so popular was because of the fast growing, high population from the start. People always love to flock towards the 'Next Big Thing'. After we installed Harmony -- we were bothunting all day every day as GMs, but there were always more -- some of the population started to go down. New servers tend to get a flood of botters until they're not able to bot any more, and Avid waited much longer than he should have to get Harmony installed.

Quote
This really reminds me of my experience on AthereaRO

GODDAMN I WAS SO SURE THAT THIS WOULD BE DIFFERENT BECAUSE IT SEEMED LIKE AVID ACTUALLY GAVE A s*** QQQQQQQQQQQQQQ.

Quote
GJ avid.

Hi Yittoo c: My dear pain-in-the-donkey [I swear I tried so hard]

Quote
I believe he also runs one of the newer top site at the moment, which I am not too happy about its name.

Oh, man. This. He asked me to help with this and when I went on and saw his forums, they were direct rip-offs from RMS. He literally copy and pasted all of the forum section titles from here onto ratemyserver. I went through and renamed and re-wrote every single title and description -- then sent it to him because he couldn't give me the ability to do it myself. I mean, he didn't have me admin'd on AvidRO's forums, either, so it took three months to get him to give us a god damned Staff Forum. :U


Offline Wyvern

Re: A message from AvidRO's Head GM
« Reply #9 on: Jun 11, 2014, 01:30 PM »
That's not surprising. The moment you notice you're being ignored or something like that, it usually never changes, and always fails, no matter how much we hope it doesn't, which is unfortunate. There might be lucky moments where it does get better, but...from my past experience, it hasn't happened much. It sucks you had to go through bad management twice though.

This also reminds me of my 1st RO server I've played, which later on turned out to be very, very bad, due to the admin/GMs (NamelessRO Sunrise (low rate)) - I'm not sure why I kept playing it even though it was pretty dead, prob cause it was my 1st RO server.

So he's the guy who made that site huh...

ps. Phoenix here from Atherea~
« Last Edit: Jun 13, 2014, 02:30 PM by Remia »

Offline -Una-

Re: A message from AvidRO's Head GM
« Reply #10 on: Jun 12, 2014, 04:51 PM »
Oh, man. This. He asked me to help with this and when I went on and saw his forums, they were direct rip-offs from RMS. He literally copy and pasted all of the forum section titles from here onto ratemyserver. I went through and renamed and re-wrote every single title and description -- then sent it to him because he couldn't give me the ability to do it myself. I mean, he didn't have me admin'd on AvidRO's forums, either, so it took three months to get him to give us a god damned Staff Forum. :U

That site is such a rip off. Cheated my roommate and then just kept deleting her posts so nobody else could see what he did. HAHA!

Offline Zhin

Re: A message from AvidRO's Head GM
« Reply #11 on: Jun 17, 2014, 03:28 AM »
Quote
Ha, disregard what I've said. I suppose I'm still offended by the fact that he has been taking credits for my (and my friends') custom maps... oh well.

I missed this the first time. What do you mean, taking credit? Did you make them for him, or did he take them from somewhere else?

Quote
...then just kept deleting her posts so nobody else could see what he did. HAHA!

I went back to try to see some history on deleted things, but I guess that's probably why he didn't want me to have too many privileges on his forums. :I


Also, thank you to all the people who offered me positions on your servers, but I have to decline. I've gone through too many servers now where this has happened [if anyone remembers MicRO from 2009-10, that was my first experience with a corrupted server owner]. The only way I'd get into a RO server again would be if I were coming in as an administrator position or if I were getting paid, because if I'm going to be frustrated with not being able to do something I better be getting something out of it. I'm moving on to Minecraft servers for now and helping development of an MMORPG map that hopefully will be up and running by early next year. Wish me luck~

[And looks like I've been banned from the AvidRO forum. qq.]


Offline Dysphoric

Re: A message from AvidRO's Head GM
« Reply #12 on: Jun 17, 2014, 04:08 AM »
It's okay. I've seen it happen too.

PlayRO did the exact same thing. Banned people who did a lot of work and use it under their name just so they don't have to get rid of it and whatever.

I find their actions so childish and unprofessional + very biased towards donors.

The moment they did that, it just showed how desperate and unprofessional they were and whatnot but on the other hand, I completely agree with what you said.

I also encountered Avid before and he just ignored everything.

Offline lilsword

Re: A message from AvidRO's Head GM
« Reply #13 on: Jun 17, 2014, 05:00 AM »
It's okay. I've seen it happen too.

PlayRO did the exact same thing. Banned people who did a lot of work and use it under their name just so they don't have to get rid of it and whatever.

I find their actions so childish and unprofessional + very biased towards donors.

The moment they did that, it just showed how desperate and unprofessional they were and whatnot but on the other hand, I completely agree with what you said.

I also encountered Avid before and he just ignored everything.

As for PlayRO, i decided to close the server because i found out that 1 of my GM was leeching HIS character and he was also spawning MVPs with a PLAYER. I felt guilty for what happened, especially to my players. I emailed all of the players of PlayRO who donated for the server, they'll be getting back their donation points. I didn't ban anyone in PlayRO, not even you.

The player who was leeched told me everything before i was about to open the server again. (He felt guilty as well) The corrupt GM suddenly whispered him and asked him to help him kill the MVPs using his LEGIT CHARACTER. I've told some of the players of playRO who are still communicating with me on what really happened back there. I've also provided them screenshots of the logs. And they are fine with the decision i've made. The fact that this GM was already 30 years old+, so i assumed that he'll be mature but i was disappointed.

This will be my last post on this thread.

Nhiz i've sent you a message.

Offline Dysphoric

Re: A message from AvidRO's Head GM
« Reply #14 on: Jun 17, 2014, 05:58 AM »
As for PlayRO, i decided to close the server because i found out that 1 of my GM was leeching HIS character and he was also spawning MVPs with a PLAYER. I felt guilty for what happened, especially to my players. I emailed all of the players of PlayRO who donated for the server, they'll be getting back their donation points. I didn't ban anyone in PlayRO, not even you.

The player who was leeched told me everything before i was about to open the server again. (He felt guilty as well) The corrupt GM suddenly whispered him and asked him to help him kill the MVPs using his LEGIT CHARACTER. I've told some of the players of playRO who are still communicating with me on what really happened back there. I've also provided them screenshots of the logs. And they are fine with the decision i've made. The fact that this GM was already 30 years old+, so i assumed that he'll be mature but i was disappointed.

This will be my last post on this thread.

Nhiz i've sent you a message.

o.o.... I meant a different server called Play RO...