Well, on a 99/70 server. I've been playing Ragnarok for roughly 3 weeks now, and have yet to even pop into WoE. So; curiosity, what's my role in WoE apart from buffing and repairing?
Some people say I should be in a CT build, but some are saying I should actually be using a status carded orcish axe and a Guillotine whilst going for a more Cart Revo oriented build. So, what role would I play really? :3
If you're in a guild that WoE's for fun, just go CT build. If you're good enough you might take down several people. If you're in a high end guild, go repair/status build. Use a status orcish axe and cart revo your enemies to status them; don't forget to use melt down.
What Gankz said ^
In WoE, whitesmiths usually turn into a support class as opposed to a DPS class like they are in PvM or PvP. Don't forget to use Full Adrenaline Rush too.
In woe, your main role is status/repair. However, it's not as simple as it sounds.
What separates a GOOD whitesmith from a bad one is knowing WHEN to repair. Sure, they'll make chat signs and whatnot to ask for repair, but if you see someone freezing, take the initiative and repair them anyway.
Now, for the status part. An orcish axe is not needed. There's a perfectly fine axe[4] to use. It's easy to get also. Main statuses you should be using are Silence[Metaller] and Chaos[Requiem].
Why silence and not freezing? It's because most biochemists opt for 1 vit which means they're very vulnerable to silence [as well as High Wizards].
Why Chaos? It messes them up real bad. It basically makes them go in the opposite direction of their choosing which can lead to death.
However, you shouldn't try to get into the other guild's mob every chance you get. That's just stupid. Stay with your guild and provide buffs for awhile. Wait until the GvG is coming to a close or if the GvG is lasting for quite awhile. Most players have Full Chemical Protection and cannot get their gears broken. Wait for awhile until the FCP wears off then it should be fine to speed potion into their mob and revo away.
Don't listen to anyone. Cart Termination is no-no in woe. Why? To do decent DPS [not great or fantastic, just decent], it requires a lot of buffs. One Dispel will ultimately wreck a DPS whitesmith [a lot more than it would a Champ]. Now, of course everyone is going to get dispelled right? The deal is that it would who knows how long to rebuff and whatnot, in that time you are completely useless and half way through buffing you can just get dispelled again and would have to restart the process.
Bleah, another support oriented character >.< I suppose I'll use my smith for support when I feel like it, but it's not like I do enough on my priest >.<
So what would be a more offensive class? I'm thinking SinX's or uh... Paladins perhaps? I'm going more for ground control as a secondary character :3
No. Paladins should not be an offensive class, although I guess you can use it for taking down a Roki's for FE WoE.
Try CHAMPS or CREATORS. D:
Eww no fun in that xD
Champs = Lolsura
Creators = Uh... AD spam? What else can it do? *interest peaked*
How bout an assassin? Or uhm... Proff perhaps? Or maybe a slinger or a ninja? =D
Well there's a FS creator, they're probably the easiest SE class. 190 aspd, 149 dex (yes 1 less than insta). Spam Slim Potion Pitcher on your guild when you're GvGing and FCP when you're not. Really that's all you do, it's very hard to mess up, and it's quite fun being a massive healer; you generally get off 3-4 casts per second.
Oh god, I played one of those once. During WoE the other guild was like "F*ck you Golden" "OMG WTF THEY WONT DIE" "SOMEONE KILL THAT CREO" all up in @main.
Was about to play one on Vision before I left for iRO. It's relatively easy to gear too, you don't even need to worry about a weapon.
Sounds like hax. But it's still a support role, though looks like I found something I'd play as support instead of a priest :3
But how goes it for the other classes? I kinda wanna play something offensive too >.< So yeah, Proffs? Ninjas? Gunslingers? Oooh, assassins? *shrug*
If you want to go offensive, Assassins are your best option. They're relatively easy to level too. Extended classes don't really stand out that much in woe since transcendent classes always have the upper hand on them. You could also try going wiz if you want since they do decent damage and provide support.
If your server is new and it's the first WoE, a GS spamming desperado on the portal is serious wtfpwnage.
But as for offensive, Stalker or SinX are good choices.
EVERYTHING that has been said here applies for mobfest WoE, but 99% of servers are not like that. If the server has lower population, the roles of chars become more relaxed, you won't get so stressed into playing one certain role. WS suddenly can afford CT build, SinX can have some spare points to agi, and so on....
Quote from: Sarin on Jun 28, 2010, 05:48 AM
EVERYTHING that has been said here applies for mobfest WoE, but 99% of servers are not like that. If the server has lower population, the roles of chars become more relaxed, you won't get so stressed into playing one certain role. WS suddenly can afford CT build, SinX can have some spare points to agi, and so on....
But mobfest WoEs are so fun :D
FE WoE is nothing compared to the mobfest that is SE xD
In FE I play joke characters for kicks. Stuff like bolter profs, shield boom pallies, DS snipers lol.
Considering that you're more interested ground control, your best bets are either Champion or Assassin Cross.
Champions are the kings of ground control. Their role in woe SE is to kill any incoming players or any players that may have gotten past the defense [assuming you're defending] or any players inside the mob. While you're not doing ground control [when everything is clear], you're generally supporting your guild by helping keep Pneuma on the barricades and spamming Blessing on Creators.
Assassin Crosses are pretty useless in WoE:SE. The only reason they're actually there is to break the Emperium otherwise they're pretty much useless. Some guilds use them to repair Guardian Stones. They're okay at ground control but a Champion is better.
CT ws's are good.
Support WS is better but boring.
Support WS are for srs guilds :S and you are bound to get bored at this build.
While on the other hand CT ws's are effective in woe as well.
You can insta-gib them on low rates.
PS: Ro is never gonna be srs bsns :S
Quote from: Nico on Jun 28, 2010, 03:40 PM
Considering that you're more interested ground control, your best bets are either Champion or Assassin Cross.
Champions are the kings of ground control. Their role in woe SE is to kill any incoming players or any players that may have gotten past the defense [assuming you're defending] or any players inside the mob. While you're not doing ground control [when everything is clear], you're generally supporting your guild by helping keep Pneuma on the barricades and spamming Blessing on Creators.
Assassin Crosses are pretty useless in WoE:SE. The only reason they're actually there is to break the Emperium otherwise they're pretty much useless. Some guilds use them to repair Guardian Stones. They're okay at ground control but a Champion is better.
? considering the number of pitched LP battles in WoE:SE, a GT built, or even 1vit devoted sinx would do a lot just GT-ing :/ not useless at all
@Fantaxy: that's cos most of us play pservers lol. on offics they actually have sth to compete for. and then again thr are a lot of pserver guilds that strive to be the best worldwide.
It all depends.
If you are hevealy gear'd with mvp cards u could be suicide whitesmith and run into the guilds party and use autoattack with Baphoment, Valk Rand, And stormy knight.
Thats how one fo my guildies does it on essenceRO
Or you could always o CT whitesmith or full support whitesmith
Quote from: fluidin on Jul 02, 2010, 02:42 PM
? considering the number of pitched LP battles in WoE:SE, a GT built, or even 1vit devoted sinx would do a lot just GT-ing :/ not useless at all
The second the SinX gets Detected/HD'd, and dispelled, he'll pretty much drop from all the Meteor Storms and a 4k + MATK Storm Gust. The DPS with Grimtooth in a 99 agi build isn't as great as you think it is. It'd probably kill a Wizzie or two [if they got dispelled], but really anything aside from wizzies would only die if they weren't potting.
@nico, mm... in no mood to type out replies right now. this shld b enough
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAliSiOLj-E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAliSiOLj-E)
watch and see for urself
Dont get me wrong I played Iro too but meh, I could understand FS profs and FS bios but WS? It just really is so tiresome to spam repair and go support at woe in ws. >:
yeah, i agree its pretty tiresome..
but then again, some ws skills (buffs) are really good, or even necessary for the good guilds to have on hand. namely FAR.
I could understanf ws buffs for breakers in woe.
But by far they're durations are rather too short to be even useful enough except if your gonna find yourself spamming then which by then adds to tiresome all over again.
Quote from: fluidin on Jul 03, 2010, 06:11 AM
@nico, mm... in no mood to type out replies right now. this shld b enough
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAliSiOLj-E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAliSiOLj-E)
watch and see for urself
lol. They got no snipers to use detect?Spam detect, hit that sinx and he's down. Go for champs or if you want a long range AoE then ganba meteor storm/sharpshoot the hell out of em. That WoE vid sax.
Quote from: Fantaxy on Jul 04, 2010, 01:03 AM
I could understanf ws buffs for breakers in woe.
But by far they're durations are rather too short to be even useful enough except if your gonna find yourself spamming then which by then adds to tiresome all over again.
All jobs are terribly tiring if you use them efficiently and at their max potential. I would prefer playing WS rather than HP or pally, definitely WS is easier to play.
lol i think u shld watch that vid again.
some are low-1vit sinxs, and perma-devoted, meaning AD/SS doesn't even hurt. ganban MS is pretty time consuming/difficult to setup on the go, so ganban SG is used instead, but as you can see LP is being spammed. watch closely. it's being spammed continuously at instantcast.
detect.. kinda a waste of time sometimes. if their sinxs spread out all u can do is spam detect and try to lock out one sinx from GT-ing, which is quite a waste of manpower. also rmb that detect has a max 9-cell range. if ur sniper is too upfront, he can easily be picked out and killed by creos. also, in that vid when the sinx gets detected he just speedpots away and in again later.
champs? wat. anw, multiple detect+FAS spam is really not too feasible. you're gonna waste those slots for snipers when there are better classes to use?
Counting the huge decrease on long-range power referring to snipers.
What fluidin said is quite true.
While I might agree Sinxes are over-rated they are too viable to be useless.
I wont call killing multiple enemies at once nor will I call emp-breaking useless.
Plus hide+grimtooth+whatever sort of arrow is ownage really :|.
All classes are tiresome while I might agree with this but theres a somewhat fun included in those you don't play a game to be stressed out and be tired.
Hell we all can do that irl like what 1 minute?
Well then to sum things up. It basically depends on the population of the WoE community as well as the customizations on the server.
For a big woe population(guilds consisting around 50-70 per se), I'd rather see other jobs taking the slots rather than sinxes.
For a small one, most probably a sinx will be efficient.
@fluidin
Sorry but, that is not even a high tier woe.
There are two types of wizards now, Full Support [24/7 Gabantein] and DD wizards.
Considering most GvGs take place at a considerable range, the second this SinX gets dispelled, he WILL drop. Low vit will make potting efficiency quite horrible especially with his low HP.
It's quite obvious you're inexperienced with GvGs [thinking SG wizards will be using Gabantein lol].
Also, I highly doubt that SinX was running 1 vit [he wasn't wearing a Dark Bash] otherwise he would've been stunning like no tomorrow. 1 vit SinXs are simply too fragile [especially if they can't react fast enough to swap the second they're dispelled or detected]. Even if they were devoted [and they should be if they're running 1 vit], it's simply too risky to lose a SinX because he wasn't able to out pot the damage he takes.
Mindbreaker + Meteor Storms [considering at least 3 wizards are doing meteor storm] and a 4k+ Matk storm gust hurts, a lot. Not to mention the FAS spam from other snipers as well. Running a 1vit SinX simply isn't smart.
1 vit SinXs are simply too fragile
Low vit will make potting efficiency
and perma-devoted.
Care to read? :S
And also 24/ Gabantein Lolol.
Then your telling fluidin, one of the vets of RO, Not knowing something about GVG?
/facepalm
Quote from: Fantaxy on Jul 06, 2010, 04:46 AM
1 vit SinXs are simply too fragile
Low vit will make potting efficiency
and perma-devoted.
Care to read? :S
And also 24/ Gabantein Lolol.
Then your telling fluidin, one of the vets of RO, Not knowing something about GVG?
/facepalm
Lol? Here's the deal, if you're running up frontline to grimtooth [which you probably will be], you'll most likely be dispelled [detected and whatnot]. Grimtooth has a range of 7 cells. That's even less than Biochemists. Even if both guilds were gvging within the correct range, a sniper merely has to notice the sinx [which wouldn't be very hard], detect, and 1) he'll get his pally killed because lack of cranial 2) he'll get dispelled [all it takes is one] and he'll insta drop from the Meteor Storms and the 4k MATK Storm Gust. Don't even bother with "There's Land Protector," there's also Full Support wizards doing Gabantein 24/7. I guess you're underestimating the DPS of Meteor Storm under Mindbreaker with a Salamander card [and the storm gust as well]. It's just too stupid to run a SinX with 1 vit. They're better off with 97 [or 100] vit and staying on ground control. Their DPS is horrible and the only people he'll kill are undevoted wizards and maybe a biochemist.
24/7 Gabantein. What's "Lolol" for? Any guild would have to be stupid NOT to run Full Support Wizards in their set-up.
I don't care if fluidin is a vet of RO. That doesn't mean he's always right.
As for you, I think you need to woe a bit more with high tier guilds [that's if they even accept you].
Quote from: Nico on Jul 08, 2010, 01:21 AM
Quote from: Fantaxy on Jul 06, 2010, 04:46 AM
1 vit SinXs are simply too fragile
Low vit will make potting efficiency
and perma-devoted.
Care to read? :S
And also 24/ Gabantein Lolol.
Then your telling fluidin, one of the vets of RO, Not knowing something about GVG?
/facepalm
Lol? Here's the deal, if you're running up frontline to grimtooth [which you probably will be], you'll most likely be dispelled [detected and whatnot]. Grimtooth has a range of 7 cells. That's even less than Biochemists. Even if both guilds were gvging within the correct range, a sniper merely has to notice the sinx [which wouldn't be very hard], detect, and 1) he'll get his pally killed because lack of cranial 2) he'll get dispelled [all it takes is one] and he'll insta drop from the Meteor Storms and the 4k MATK Storm Gust. Don't even bother with "There's Land Protector," there's also Full Support wizards doing Gabantein 24/7. I guess you're underestimating the DPS of Meteor Storm under Mindbreaker with a Salamander card [and the storm gust as well]. It's just too stupid to run a SinX with 1 vit. They're better off with 97 [or 100] vit and staying on ground control. Their DPS is horrible and the only people he'll kill are undevoted wizards and maybe a biochemist.
24/7 Gabantein. What's "Lolol" for? Any guild would have to be stupid NOT to run Full Support Wizards in their set-up.
I don't care if fluidin is a vet of RO. That doesn't mean he's always right.
As for you, I think you need to woe a bit more with high tier guilds [that's if they even accept you].
^What he said.
And this is coming from?
A pretending to be high tier guild member? O.o Lolol
What kind of paladin would drop from a whatever job devoing? O.o
Except if whole guild aims for you WHICH if it is gonna happen all DEVO paladins DIE.
I'm underestimating? lolol Who's saying sinx's dps is low.
Dispell isn't instacast When your dispelled theres gonna be a quick devo constantly when in your so called dream guild "High Tier Guild".
mofo.
Try using it at a WoE server. Let's see you do it.
And don't effin show a video like that. Pretty crappy WoE there imo.
Flame a way.
:O
You guys brag about being in a high tier guild. (Which I personally doubt.)
And insulting me that I lack "high tier woe's".(Which by the way I personally doubt too.)
You being a know-it-all.
All of those dont work why?
Because I been playing RO for 7-8 years I have WOE'd is WOE'ing and will continue to WOE at high tier guilds.
but meh, that doesn't matter I'm not the type that brags about my RO experience and pretends to be a high tier guy.
Quote from: Fantaxy on Jul 08, 2010, 03:30 AM
And this is coming from?
A pretending to be high tier guild member? O.o Lolol
What kind of paladin would drop from a whatever job devoing? O.o
Except if whole guild aims for you WHICH if it is gonna happen all DEVO paladins DIE.
I'm underestimating? lolol Who's saying sinx's dps is low.
Dispell isn't instacast When your dispelled theres gonna be a quick devo constantly when in your so called dream guild "High Tier Guild".
Pretending you say? I have members of these "high tier" guilds that can vouch for me. WPE, Just Us and so on. You should really stop assuming ;].
What kind of paladin drops? The one that has to devo that SinX that gets hit by 10+ Meteor Storms + a 4MATK Storm gust in a brief second, and doesn't wear a cranial.
You act as though the paladin will focus-devo that SinX. He has other people to worry about you know [or at least he should]. If you've got the balls to give up a paladin to personal-devote a SinX, then go for it.
By the way, a SinXs DPS IS low [Grimtooth]. HOWEVER, his burst damage [Sonic Blow] is perfectly fine.
You honestly seem to underestimate the damage of Meteor Storm [when stacked correctly, under mindbreaker and a salamander card]. You've got to keep note that there are about 3~5 wizards spamming meteor storm, all under mindbreaker, all with a salamander card. This alone WILL drop a whole guild if they are not under Land Protector. This is not including DPS from FAS, and Storm Gust, as well as any other forms of DPS [AD, etc, etc].
The video you posted is a very bad example and only makes you look
worse.
Before you go assuming I'm trying to brag about my knowledge and whatnot, I'm not. I'm simply trying to save those inexperienced players[you fall under this category by the way, from what I can tell] from leaning towards these builds that simply suck.I don't care about how long you've been playing RO or how long you've been woeing or WHO you've woe'd with. None of that matters if you're still a bad player with mediocre knowledge of the subject.
SinXs are horrible in woe SE. Sure, they were heroes in FE woe, but in SE, they're almost useless. Their DPS is horrible and they can't even compete with Champs on ground control and burst damage. So what are they for exactly? Breaking the emp. Take out the emp and SinXs are about as useful as Lord Knights.
LOLOL mediocre knowledge.
If you noticed there was land protector there.
And another thing? Get your facts right I posted the woe vid?
You can't even read right.
LOLOL and your expecting me that you have Superior knowledge on ro? and your not bragging huh?
Sure yeah right.
What are you?
One of those OMG I USE CHAMP NOW I 1 HIT ASURA ALL PEOPLE WHO GO IN.
Point stated Go Q.Q moar.
Quote from: Fantaxy on Jul 08, 2010, 05:12 AM
All of those dont work why?
Because I been playing RO for 7-8 years I have WOE'd is WOE'ing and will continue to WOE at high tier guilds.
but meh, that doesn't matter I'm not the type that brags about my RO experience and pretends to be a high tier guy.
So ironic.
This is the first time I'm posting something like this on RMS, but:
Fantaxy = pretending to "know" stuff on RO but does not really show it
Ugh.
That's right, bad boy, I fear your skillz.
-ignores thread from now on-
Did you read the whole thread?
If yes someone needs comprehension skills~
ph3aR mY Sk3lz.
QuoteSo ironic.
This is the first time I'm posting something like this on RMS, but:
Fantaxy = pretending to "know" stuff on RO but does not really show it
Ugh.
That's right, bad boy, I fear your skillz.
-ignores thread from now on-
So if you did read the topic or did you not and skipped the posts whats so ironic there?
If you don't have comprehension skills then why comment?
Kaezar,
Sadly your just one of those guys who jumps on a thread not read the posts and judges a person by the way they seem to like.
What happy your post count got increased now?
Not really show,oh please mighty all knowing Kaezar, please tell me all your knowledge.
And if you want to continue this argument kindly do it with the PM function it wont help the thread IMO.
And do try to stop to be someone your not.
News Flash: RO is a game, get a real life.
The thing is this thread was supposedly for discussing Roles of WS in woe and to help the OP.
So stop being a know-it all.(you know who you are)
And for kaezer do stop trying to be someone your not.
Quote from: Fantaxy on Jul 08, 2010, 06:31 AM
LOLOL mediocre knowledge.
If you noticed there was land protector there.
And another thing? Get your facts right I posted the woe vid?
You can't even read right.
LOLOL and your expecting me that you have Superior knowledge on ro? and your not bragging huh?
Sure yeah right.
What are you?
One of those OMG I USE CHAMP NOW I 1 HIT ASURA ALL PEOPLE WHO GO IN.
Point stated Go Q.Q moar.
That video you posted wasn't even with high tier guilds. They obviously don't have full support wizards and their overall DPS is low. Their profs were horrible and their over team play was horrible. About the whole "there was land protector there," that wasn't even a high tier woe. They didn't even use gabantein. You want to see a high tier woe?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sevtY63jVwQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsus5dQWxhk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jxt3ofjmHvM&feature=related
If you're going to say something about how 2 out of 3 of these videos are champions playing, don't even bother. You'll only make yourself look more ignorant.
I wasn't trying to brag or anything. The OP was simply not interested in whitesmiths anymore and said he was more interested in things that had to do with mob control. So I told him Champions were best at ground control and Assassin Crosses were okay, but Champions were better, simply because of their damage.
My apologies, you didn't post the video. You might as well have though, considering you're using it as part of your argument [to support it]. Heck, you're not even arguing your point anymore. You're simply just trying to make me look as bad as you can [yes, I'm guilty of this too but at least I'm still giving out reasons why 1vit SinXs are bad].
By the way, I play a Gypsy. No, not those bad ones who have no idea what they're doing. I play an Offensive Slow Grace Gypsy. If you have no idea why they are good, you probably shouldn't say anything about them in your next comment [if you even reply].
QuoteThat video you posted wasn't even with high tier guilds.
QuoteMy apologies, you didn't post the video.
How could people be like this. /facepalm
I didn't reply to your arguments after that because like I said this thread is for WS discussion anyway if I did there were so many flaws in your statements that I could have ended this way way ago which I didn't.
Stop crying about the length of your e-penises.
Quote from: Fantaxy on Jul 09, 2010, 04:57 AM
QuoteThat video you posted wasn't even with high tier guilds.
QuoteMy apologies, you didn't post the video.
How could people be like this. /facepalm
I didn't reply to your arguments after that because like I said this thread is for WS discussion anyway if I did there were so many flaws in your statements that I could have ended this way way ago which I didn't.
Yes, I realized you weren't the who posted that video, hence the apology.
Yeah, you didn't reply to my arguments, instead you posted crap like this "What are you?
One of those OMG I USE CHAMP NOW I 1 HIT ASURA ALL PEOPLE WHO GO IN."
Care to point out the "many flaws?" I'd love to see them [not implying I haven't made mistakes, because as we all know, I'm not perfect].
Anyways, if you had actually been reading what's been going on, the OP already moved on from whitesmiths and stated that he was more interested in mob control.
I told him that Champs were the best and SinXs are almost useless but are alright at mob control. Then you two [fluidin and you] decide to argue your point over SinX. Which is quite funny because using SinX as DPS had nothing to do with mob control at all. Sonic blow is a bad skill and does mediocre damage compared to Asura which is why Champions are better at ground control than a SinX. Most players are able to tanked a fully buffed [no, no gospel s***] SinX which is why they are practically useless. Their only purpose in woe:SE is to break the Emperium and people messing with 1 vit/99 agi builds are simply trying to make them more useful, so they aren't overshadowed by Champions and such. Even then, SinXs have horrible DPS and if they chose to sacrifice vit [one of the more important stats for a SinX, right under strength] for a
little more DPS, then sure. Why not?
Posted on: Jul 08, 2010, 10:27 pm
Quote from: DarkDevine on Jul 09, 2010, 05:26 AM
Stop crying about the length of your e-penises.
If you saw someone giving bad advice or suggesting things that aren't good, would you just sit there and let it go?
Regardless of the subject.
Lolol last post at this thread wrong advice?
This was WS advice hello?
Posted on: Jul 08, 2010, 10:27 pm
Quote from: DarkDevine on Jul 09, 2010, 05:26 AM
Stop crying about the length of your e-penises.
If you saw someone giving bad advice or suggesting things that aren't good, would you just sit there and let it go?
Regardless of the subject.
[/quote]
Why not try something new?
Who ever said that all good builds are discovered yet?
Let the OP decide if he wants to try the build or not, most servers have stat-resetters anyways, if it sucks, he tries the next one and (hopefully) tells us which of the introduced builds are good and which are not.
Quote from: DarkDevine on Jul 09, 2010, 06:37 AM
Why not try something new?
Who ever said that all good builds are discovered yet?
Let the OP decide if he wants to try the build or not, most servers have stat-resetters anyways, if it sucks, he tries the next one and (hopefully) tells us which of the introduced builds are good and which are not.
I wouldn't have said anything about the subject unless I've tried it myself. They are simply too fragile and die almost instantly the second they are dispelled.
@Fantaxy
He already got his answer and already stated he was leaning towards jobs that had to do with mob control. Get over the whole whitesmith crap.
lol TFE woe.
i know that server, like i knew eternity and legacy. yes, they have high tier woes, but do know that iro woe does have its fair share of high tier woe players, like afrikan's crew, who are actually also said pserver players
anw, i know abt 24-7 ganban wizs, just like i know abt 24-7 LP profs. and i defo did not say that sg wizs do ganban -.- i was just referring to the lack of MS due to SG being the easier to setup skill, and the instantcast LP.
i know ganban + MB MS kills, i've been thr and done that. but that's when ur prof gets taken out/disrupted with/makes a mistake. otherwise, in optimal conditions, LP should be on >95% of the time, rendering ur sinx relatively safe to magic. dispel? yes, it kills, but if u are fast enough u speedpot out str8away and rebuff. play it well and u can save urself enough times from dispel to make a difference.
the argument is pretty stupid tbh. 1vit sinxs are good, and should have a place in high tier woe should the slots allow. end of story. they are also more valuable than a bloody sniper 1 on 1 >_> that is again, if the slots are limited.
if everybody had good gears, then yes, sinxs would probably lose out to champs. but then that's omitting god items, and ignoring a significant presence of godly cards (namely sam, thana, gr, gtb, tgk). yet even then the presence of a sinx is essential imo. GT dps + status potential is darn impt imo. i would like to highlight the presence of godly eqs again. i've treated them as a norm, so perhaps my judgement is skewed that way. most high tier guilds will have their fair share of some. u 2 shld know that those can be utilised to great potential, in this case of our argument.
GT dps isn't fearsome enough on its own, but is a kind of higher lvl support dps that when coupled with other skills, is deadly enough. just like when its coupled with ur '4k' matk MS. (u and i know that 4k isn't constant anw)
abt the woe vid... u guys are blind? there's 24/7 ganban, it's just getting covered up by constant LP. and yeah, the sinx wasnt a 1vit one. just trying to illustrate some points, but unfortunately u guys touched on points in the video that i wasn't trying to emphasise -.-
and perhaps sadly legacy and eternity woes aren't resource intensive enough to make AD so feared that ppl actually go 1vit just to save themselves from it. i have been in servers like that tho. TFE i can't speak for.
i missed out the latter part of the argument, cos it seemed hormone-driven. do highlight to me if there are more valuable points for me to take note of.
Quote from: fluidin on Jul 09, 2010, 07:59 AM
the argument is pretty stupid tbh. 1vit sinxs are good, and should have a place in high tier woe should the slots allow. end of story. they are also more valuable than a bloody sniper 1 on 1 >_> that is again, if the slots are limited.
The thing is, a SinX has already been determined as
useless. A guild should only have 2~3 SinXs as most and they all must survive. Even a Sniper is more useful [Arrow Shower status, traps, and FAS].
Quote from: fluidin on Jul 09, 2010, 07:59 AM
if everybody had good gears, then yes, sinxs would probably lose out to champs. but then that's omitting god items, and ignoring a significant presence of godly cards (namely sam, thana, gr, gtb, tgk). yet even then the presence of a sinx is essential imo. GT dps + status potential is darn impt imo. i would like to highlight the presence of godly eqs again. i've treated them as a norm, so perhaps my judgement is skewed that way. most high tier guilds will have their fair share of some. u 2 shld know that those can be utilised to great potential, in this case of our argument.
The thing is, most guilds on these servers don't own things like that. Thanatos cards, Ghostrings, and whatnot. Even then, it's still easy to tank their Sonic Blows. Grimtooth DPS isn't great at all and considering the range it has, it makes it even worse.
SinXs are so fragile while grimtoothing. Sure, they can hide but the second they are revealed, they are pretty much screwed unless they can swap and react fast enough. If they don't get killed, they'll get their pally killed due to lack of cranial, even for that brief instance.
Quote from: fluidin on Jul 09, 2010, 07:59 AM
GT dps isn't fearsome enough on its own, but is a kind of higher lvl support dps that when coupled with other skills, is deadly enough. just like when its coupled with ur '4k' matk MS. (u and i know that 4k isn't constant anw)
4MATK
storm gust is there quite often, if you have a good mindbreaker.
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I never said anything about iro woes, simply that Fantaxy has no idea of what he's talking about. The constant Gabantein also gives brief instances in which that area what was affected may receive magic damage.
1vit/99agi SinXs have already been tested, there's a reason why no one plays them in high tier woes.
Even though I may not be on topic completely, but I want to say... what happened to talking about WS in WoE lol? Make another thread to talk about WoE in general or classes. Is there a moderator for this thread?
u dont really trap in woe2 lolz. neither shld u arrow shower status
anw i do know the value of FAS dps, but i would argue GT dps is the better if geared right. i do however agree 2-3 sinxs are enough, unless all are godly geared. but then again in the guilds i've played in, whoever wanted to play sinx had to have a minimum standard of gears, or else they had to play other classes. to me it's a given. 1 on 1 a pro sinx on good gears is still more valuable than a good sniper.
u seldom see the best/better players in ur guild playing snipers, but u can however see them playing sinxs more often (+ other jobs, yeah) there's a reason for that.
pretty much done with the 1vit sinx argument tho. there's pros and cons, and it differs server to server. however my stand still stands; that it is a considerable alternative.
i dont really play with underdog guilds no matter which server i go to tho, so more often than not i possess, or have guildies having godlies. makes woe much more interesting imo. not to say i cant play w/o them tho, just that i'm used to strategising with, and against, guilds with such gears.
Are you really reading? O.o
As I said this is a WS discussion and even if the OP is finish with what he needs doesn't give you the right to do what you ever done with this thread.
And as for I don't know what I been saying can you like read? your just repeating what your saying.
Quote from: Fantaxy on Jul 09, 2010, 10:47 PM
Are you really reading? O.o
As I said this is a WS discussion and even if the OP is finish with what he needs doesn't give you the right to do what you ever done with this thread.
And as for I don't know what I been saying can you like read? your just repeating what your saying.
h0ly cr4p ur a ginus
On a more serious note [as serious as RO gets], the OP already said he was more interested in ground control, GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD.
@fluidin
No Arrow Shower status? Are you serious? And yes, you DO trap in woe:SE. You don't trap like you do in FE, but you trap behind choke points so that if anyone made it past the guild, they'd get caught in the traps and it'd reduce the chances of someone recalling on barricades or guardian stones.
Sure Grimtooth DPS may be better IF geared right [and I'm talking Thanatos cards] but the lack of range [7 cells] and lack of cranial is what makes it a bad choice. You may argue the "lack of cranial" for a Sniper as well, but you've also got to look at what a sniper can. Arrow Shower status [using requiem cards, metaller, etc]. They also do AMAZING damage with FAS.
All players are supposed to be good at their job if they're playing it. You'll hardly see 1 on 1 situations and even then, Champs are better because they're pretty much guaranteed a kill [aside from the rare ghostrings running around and such].
etc etc etc, cbf to type anymore, done with this topic.
? trapping chokepoints only requires 1 snip. and yeah in woe2 traps just slows ppl down. thr are many ways that u can render those traps less ineffective as compared to woe1. and maybe its juz a preference but i prefer FAS status instead. reaches a little further and wider
anw glad to see some1 actually having the some viewpoint that FAS is amazing. too many ppl dunt know that. FAS is FAS tho, and status is status. i wouldnt make the same sniper do both things. FAS pressure has to be applied constantly for it to b effective. this does not include battles that are 1-sided or fought to a 1-sided point already tho.
i'm talking 1 on 1 as in, if you have 20 ppl turning up for woe, and the last person can play both snip and sinx, which class would u make him play kinda thing.
i'm also cbf to type anymore. i think we understand each other's points quite well already.
What the hell happened here? How did a discussion of a whitesmiths' role in WoE turn into a discussion of champ, sinx & sniper advice?
Needless to say, I think we've gone waaaaay off-topic here.
@OP - Hopefully you found the answer you were looking for from the first few posts.
Locked.