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Author Topic: Have whitesmith become irrelevant over the years in pvp/woe and pvm?  (Read 18519 times)

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Offline ggwp

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« Reply #30 on: Nov 10, 2016, 03:37 AM »
The basics, man. Whitesmith can reach 189 aspd with a 69 AGI build, which makes it have the strongest DPS in the entire game. The problem is how vulnerable it is in the approach because debuffs mess it up really bad, but that's why you don't send the WS in until you have coverage of the classes that debuff him. You do have to play around the class to bring out its potential in WoE, but if they have one and you don't you're going to lose.

"Outpot your damage" You crack me up, kid. Whitesmith is the only class in the entire game that you can't outpot the damage of in WoE. How many years have you played this game again?

Either you drop STR to 100 from usual 120 total and reduce your DPS by 10% and cutting 20% damage per swing. Or you reduce Vit and get stunned every time. Strongest DPS without god's in the entire game is aspd 190 Creator with Bragi.

You're assuming the target are standing still waiting their doom. Who dumb enough to face tank a meele range skill spammer ? Let them busy chasing you so their spam rate drop. Moreover this class is heavily relying on Ice Pick which get negated easily by Grimtooth / Spike.

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Offline Blinzer

Re: .
« Reply #31 on: Nov 10, 2016, 04:46 AM »
Either you drop STR to 100 from usual 120 total and reduce your DPS by 10% and cutting 20% damage per swing. Or you reduce Vit and get stunned every time. Strongest DPS without god's in the entire game is aspd 190 Creator with Bragi.

Neither. A 20% stun immunity on headgear(stalactic golem in vanilla? can't remember) is enough to make you immune with 80 vit, you don't need even need orc hero card(OH always goes to sniper first). Valk Armor does the same thing. It's also interesting that you mention Ice Pick, because out of the 3 weapons a WS needs to have, Ice Pick is the least important.
« Last Edit: Nov 10, 2016, 05:59 AM by Blinzer »

Offline Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho

Ok, I meant serious paladin, who is devotion paladin. You can't catch him, he has chicken (peco). He would be only laughing at you. Even if he let you catch him, you would do easily pottable damage.
Assassin has cloak and even if you could catch him, he has much more health than you think.
In order to do high damage, you have to sacrifice reductions - weapon (damage weapon vs. combat), garment (Giant Whisper vs Ray/Nox), Headgear (Atk Bapho vs Def Bapho), Boots (Shackles vs health)
Obviously 99/70 pre-renewal, 190aspd, 150 instant cast, 0.2s delay, basic stuff server, with godlike items and MVP cards disabled.
WS is not class meant to do anything on WoE/BG at all. Not a damage, not a support, not an option.

I might be able to find a WoE video of our guild playing melee characters with boosted WS (With soul link, he was immune to dispell).
Please duede. PLEASE. Who would really take giant whisper card and sacrifice Raydric card if you can get additional ATK by Box of Resentment or Aloevera? WHO?
Ragnarok Online Player since the very Beta. I'm still in love with the game.

Offline Zereges

Neither. A 20% stun immunity on headgear(stalactic golem in vanilla? can't remember) is enough to make you immune with 80 vit, you don't need even need orc hero card(OH always goes to sniper first). Valk Armor does the same thing. It's also interesting that you mention Ice Pick, because out of the 3 weapons a WS needs to have, Ice Pick is the least important.
Vitality and stun immunty from gear does not stack additively. You need to have either 100% from gear, or 97 vit (eathena)

Please duede. PLEASE. Who would really take giant whisper card and sacrifice Raydric card if you can get additional ATK by Box of Resentment or Aloevera? WHO?
Well, someone who can afford it, can switch or whatever.
BTW, Please duede. PLEASE. Who would really, apart from profesor and sinx wear raydric in WoE/BGs full of LR damage?

I've just used calc and full buffed whitesmith, with full damage equip would do ~10k dps to noob, prior to dispell and about 4k after dispell. With reduction equip, you would do even less. And this still assumes, that the noob would be standing still.
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Offline Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho

Vitality and stun immunty from gear does not stack additively. You need to have either 100% from gear, or 97 vit (eathena)
Well, someone who can afford it, can switch or whatever.
BTW, Please duede. PLEASE. Who would really, apart from profesor and sinx wear raydric in WoE/BGs full of LR damage?

I've just used calc and full buffed whitesmith, with full damage equip would do ~10k dps to noob, prior to dispell and about 4k after dispell. With reduction equip, you would do even less. And this still assumes, that the noob would be standing still.
What weapon did you use or calculated with?
Ragnarok Online Player since the very Beta. I'm still in love with the game.

Offline Zereges

+7 Giganto Axe[Hydra]
+5 Ice Pick[Hydra] (90vit, 35def)

resulting damage was pretty much same.
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Offline Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho

+7 Giganto Axe[Hydra]
+5 Ice Pick[Hydra] (90vit, 35def)

resulting damage was pretty much same.
But Hydra card doenst increase the damage of ct. Percent items and cards like Racial and Size cards (ignoring the ATK gained from Size cards), The Sign, Zealotus Mask and the Turtle General card do not affect this skill.
Only ATK increase its damage like Zipper bear card.
Ragnarok Online Player since the very Beta. I'm still in love with the game.

Offline Zereges

But Hydra card doenst increase the damage of ct. Percent items and cards like Racial and Size cards (ignoring the ATK gained from Size cards), The Sign, Zealotus Mask and the Turtle General card do not affect this skill.
Only ATK increase its damage like Zipper bear card.
Oh, I forgotten. But The damage would be ~same.
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Diablo 3: S13 Necromancer (top200).

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Offline Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho

Oh, I forgotten. But The damage would be ~same.
Well, if you dont even know or forgot that racial cards dont boost the damage of CT, maybe the rest of your equip was wrong too. I guess that.
Now, if I was mean, I could use this against you or make fun of it, but Im not going to.^^
Btw. my tip is: Use parts of BG equip, many many people underestimate it.
Also, zipper bear would increase the damage for sure.
Also, I dont know what people expect CT's damage to be. You dont need to make 6k or 5k hit with each CT. Making 4k hit is also okay, people just wont understand that his DPS and and his rate of damage need just to be high enough that enemies cant heal them fast enough.
CT is not for one hitting everyone, I get the feeling that everyone expcts them to be one hitters.
« Last Edit: Nov 11, 2016, 10:11 AM by Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho »
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Offline Blinzer

Vitality and stun immunty from gear does not stack additively. You need to have either 100% from gear, or 97 vit (eathena)

Yeah, but a stun that lasts 0.05 seconds is no stun at all.

BTW, giant axe on WS isn't that good. Only good as a quick grab to have some decent damage output within 2 days of joining a server.
« Last Edit: Nov 11, 2016, 03:26 PM by Blinzer »

Offline ggwp

Yeah, but a stun that lasts 0.05 seconds is no stun at all.

BTW, giant axe on WS isn't that good. Only good as a quick grab to have some decent damage output within 2 days of joining a server.

Stun duration is 5s , with your 80 Vit + stalactic it will last around 1s.

How many years have you played this game again?

Offline Blinzer

Re: Re: Re: Have white
« Reply #41 on: Nov 12, 2016, 01:35 AM »
Stun duration is 5s , with your 80 Vit + stalactic it will last around 1s.

How many years have you played this game again?

I am sniper only, so I never concerned myself with these problems since the Orc Hero card always went to me. I don't remember nor care about the math behind stuns, but I will attempt to reverse engineer the random bits of memory I have of my friend talking to me about it for your sake.

I think it was either 80 or 86 vit, but let's go with 80 vit(I can't even remember if bonus vit counts towards immunity, but job levels provide +6, +3 vit food, +1 from valk armor) = 90 vit + valk armor and stalactic golem providing a 70% resistance.  If bonus vit applies that leaves a low a chance of being stunned for 0.15 seconds, which is not enough to stop a CT hit lock from happening. Even if bonus vit doesn't apply, I'm sure that by tweaking and manipulating other things you can reach the conclusion and find out how he did it yourself. Vanberk Card and Cursed Hand were also crucial elements to his build to allow you to have enough stat points, so make of that what you will.

One last thing. If you want to prove your worth so badly that you would throw away your humanity and subject yourself to petty commenting, sheathe your sword and challenge me instead. We share the same fate, and I won't allow you to take what I use and dishonor the name of human beings like that.
« Last Edit: Nov 12, 2016, 02:50 AM by Blinzer »

Offline Zereges

Well, if you dont even know or forgot that racial cards dont boost the damage of CT, maybe the rest of your equip was wrong too. I guess that.
Now, if I was mean, I could use this against you or make fun of it, but Im not going to.^^
Btw. my tip is: Use parts of BG equip, many many people underestimate it.
Also, zipper bear would increase the damage for sure.

Sadly, was not. I copied mine PVE WS build (pure damage) and just changed the weapon. For some reason though I placed hydra instead of zipper there.
You could do whatever you want. For example, you could post some math supporting your "WS has highest dps".
I assumed BG is not available, because it is easier than to discuss if KVM is also acceptable.


Also, I dont know what people expect CT's damage to be. You dont need to make 6k or 5k hit with each CT. Making 4k hit is also okay, people just wont understand that his DPS and and his rate of damage need just to be high enough that enemies cant heal them fast enough.
CT is not for one hitting everyone, I get the feeling that everyone expcts them to be one hitters.
You are doing 2-3k hits more likely. The only reason why the dps is high (in calc) is full adrenaline rush which gives insane aspd boost. Once you are dispelled, it's over.

BTW, you said
Quote
Well, who plays LK in woe lol
How surprised would you be if I told you, that LK has higher DPS than WS, is more durable, is faster and also has AOE damage. Sadly, with same issues (dispel) as WS.
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Offline ggwp

Re:
« Reply #43 on: Nov 12, 2016, 09:14 AM »
I am sniper only, so I never concerned myself with these problems since the Orc Hero card always went to me. I don't remember nor care about the math behind stuns, but I will attempt to reverse engineer the random bits of memory I have of my friend talking to me about it for your sake.

I think it was either 80 or 86 vit, but let's go with 80 vit(I can't even remember if bonus vit counts towards immunity, but job levels provide +6, +3 vit food, +1 from valk armor) = 90 vit + valk armor and stalactic golem providing a 70% resistance.  If bonus vit applies that leaves a low a chance of being stunned for 0.15 seconds, which is not enough to stop a CT hit lock from happening. Even if bonus vit doesn't apply, I'm sure that by tweaking and manipulating other things you can reach the conclusion and find out how he did it yourself. Vanberk Card and Cursed Hand were also crucial elements to his build to allow you to have enough stat points, so make of that what you will.

One last thing. If you want to prove your worth so badly that you would throw away your humanity and subject yourself to petty commenting, sheathe your sword and challenge me instead. We share the same fate, and I won't allow you to take what I use and dishonor the name of human beings like that.

Stun reduce gears reduce STUN RATE , duration still same so 0,5s.

Since you say to use cursed hand, your WS build at most you only can use 1 MoH / Bison combo. You need 20% aspd gear and around 10 more agi to reach 189 with axe. To get that either you have Doppleganger + bison set / moh (highly unprobable) or you use +10 HF with MoH. Good luck rushing people without any demi human reducts because vanberk + stalactic means you dont use demi reducts headgear.

Offline Blinzer

Re: Re:
« Reply #44 on: Nov 12, 2016, 01:56 PM »
Stun reduce gears reduce STUN RATE , duration still same so 0,5s.

Since you say to use cursed hand, your WS build at most you only can use 1 MoH / Bison combo. You need 20% aspd gear and around 10 more agi to reach 189 with axe. To get that either you have Doppleganger + bison set / moh (highly unprobable) or you use +10 HF with MoH. Good luck rushing people without any demi human reducts because vanberk + stalactic means you dont use demi reducts headgear.

Yes, you are exactly right. +10 HF with Incant is your damaging weapon and the strongest weapon for Whitesmith, allowing you to reach 189 ASPD. You simply swap combat knife and valkyrja shield out for it when you are planning on attacking(as well as any appropriate reduction headgears).

It seems we are reaching close to the point of figuring out what it is he did, but I'm not sure where to go from here. A 30% stun rate(15% since scream is 50% by default) seems solid, but I'm sure the stun lasted much less than 0.5s. What other possibilities could there be?

Also, what is MoH? Bare with me, you have to understand that I've been working on my own project for so long that I am dual wielding this knowledge for this topic.
« Last Edit: Nov 12, 2016, 03:50 PM by Blinzer »