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Author Topic: Have whitesmith become irrelevant over the years in pvp/woe and pvm?  (Read 18109 times)

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Offline Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho

TY for providing me new joke for my signature.

On PVP ? WS might shine , but they wont get "most strongest killer"
On WOE ? good luck surviving to get melee range of a stack.
I mispelled there as you easily could find out. You're just trying to find something that you can use against me.
I wanted to say, that WS are ONE of the most strongest killers on PVP/WOE/BG. So they're not on the top but one of the best killer machines. They have a high rate of Damage per second. As a WS you can get 190 Aspd with less than 50 AGI. True story bro. And if you dont know how to handle a WS, dont play with them. And stop complain like a sissy girl.
You have high vit, you can wear CK against Champions and other problematic groups.
As a WS you own Paladins, Assasins, LKS(Well, who plays LK in woe lol) and also Creators. But creators are hard, once you're near them, its over for them because they cant outpot the high DPS.
Only champions tend to be problematic. But theres a way to dodge their Asura, but Im not telling you how. :))) On PVP scale, hes doing a really really good job. And there a few jobs that can beat him. On WOE, there are better classes for combat, but hes still strong.
« Last Edit: Nov 07, 2016, 10:43 PM by Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho »
Ragnarok Online Player since the very Beta. I'm still in love with the game.

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Offline misterj

it's obvious you haven't woed in years on a competitive server. do yourself a favor and stop posting about it... please, it's really painful to read. people actually play support classes now so smith is where they belong, in the dumpster.

Offline meaman654

it's obvious you haven't woed in years on a competitive server. do yourself a favor and stop posting about it... please, it's really painful to read. people actually play support classes now so smith is where they belong, in the dumpster.

I couldn't agree more to this. Even Hitler had his fill of playing WS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-eBmlMqahU

Although, PvM wise, they're still good IMO.

Offline Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho

it's obvious you haven't woed in years on a competitive server. do yourself a favor and stop posting about it... please, it's really painful to read. people actually play support classes now so smith is where they belong, in the dumpster.
Well, I didint do much the last 2 or 3 years. Thats true. But thats also because most servers died after some months. But I went thru some extensive PVP and Battleground on classic servers. And if you think that Whitesmiths are completly useless in terms of WOE as a offensive combatant, thats your belief. Im fine with that. I've seen other wise and the last days I tried some builds on Whitesmith. I think most people generally dont know how to play WS or just except too much. You can play definitively fine with a whitesmith. Having 190 ASPD without much AGI and a high DMG per second is actually a pretty solid way to go on a  competitive server. You also didint told anyone what EXACTLY makes WS so bad in your eyes? All you do is just to beef. Is it his many selfbuffs in PVP? That he can dispelled? That Cart Termination costs Zeny? If you criticize, then tell me at least what you criticize and lets have a factual debate. Lets put that childish behaviour away. Hell, I didint expect RO players acting like that. I thought people wo actually still play RO are older.

I couldn't agree more to this. Even Hitler had his fill of playing WS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-eBmlMqahU

Although, PvM wise, they're still good IMO.
Well, the video isnt so funny when you actually speak german.
But Dispell is a pain in the donkey for anyone. It also effects Champions as much as WS. But of course a WS will be effected more.
« Last Edit: Nov 08, 2016, 12:55 AM by Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho »
Ragnarok Online Player since the very Beta. I'm still in love with the game.

Offline misterj

i would have laughed and just ignored you but you answered in a decent manner so sure ill explain.

in woe stun doesn't happen to anyone but randoms (ergo theyre irrelevant), so hammerfall is gone, and everyone has perma fcp so meltdown is gone. that leaves them with ram. it's a good skill against mvps and mobs i suppose.

that means a whitesmith can only ram people, but the dps is irrelevant against every class aside from dd hwiz, on anyone else you'll just be run away from and ignored. no one cares about the zeny costs, the fact that it's simply zeny makes it the cheapest class, especially compared to other classes where you need bombs, gems, bpots, etc. even the fact they're so shut down by dispell isn't even as relevant as their other flaws. it's a combination of all those failures that makes it so they don't fulfill any niche available in pre-re woe.

the only melee class who can succeed in an environment full of huge aoe dmg and long range buttsmashing of demo/dispel is champion.. and that's because they're a solid support class who can buff, pneuma, and move quickly through the map with snap. furthermore theyre self-sufficient, since they can immediately murder or escape anyone who comes by them.  even if they get dispelled they can *still* snap away quickly.

a lone smith can get bombed to death, get stuck in hitlock in spells, get dispelled and webbed.. or not kill whoever they come across.

none of this is theory crafting. there's a reason no guild has run a whitesmith in almost a decade. the only exceptions would be on servers that arent made for serious woe, who require things like materials having insane costs/weights, in which case theyre useful as couriers and that's it. even still they're outclassed by champions in those environments. i suppose the advantage is theyre a lot simpler to play than champion... that's about all they have going for them.

edit2: oh yeah it's funny you've mentioned how ro is mainly older players, but if you've been on any forums, you know how epic trole xddd D memer they can be.. it's kinda sad how childish the community tends to be :C

Offline meaman654

TY for providing me new joke for my signature.

On PVP ? WS might shine , but they wont get "most strongest killer"
On WOE ? good luck surviving to get melee range of a stack.

I've only read OP's post but when I first came and the later remarks but when I read this, it made my day. Savage as f*ck.

OFF Topic question: Doesn't CT cap out on 186 ASPD? I only use WS on Beelzebub and HW wiz MVP. And I tested it out also in some server  at 190 ASPD, the dmg delivered (with the same items) are the same as 186 ASPD. Did some client changed this like the SP capping on champion?

Offline Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho

i would have laughed and just ignored you but you answered in a decent manner so sure ill explain.

in woe stun doesn't happen to anyone but randoms (ergo theyre irrelevant), so hammerfall is gone, and everyone has perma fcp so meltdown is gone. that leaves them with ram. it's a good skill against mvps and mobs i suppose.

that means a whitesmith can only ram people, but the dps is irrelevant against every class aside from dd hwiz, on anyone else you'll just be run away from and ignored. no one cares about the zeny costs, the fact that it's simply zeny makes it the cheapest class, especially compared to other classes where you need bombs, gems, bpots, etc. even the fact they're so shut down by dispell isn't even as relevant as their other flaws. it's a combination of all those failures that makes it so they don't fulfill any niche available in pre-re woe.

the only melee class who can succeed in an environment full of huge aoe dmg and long range buttsmashing of demo/dispel is champion.. and that's because they're a solid support class who can buff, pneuma, and move quickly through the map with snap. furthermore theyre self-sufficient, since they can immediately murder or escape anyone who comes by them.  even if they get dispelled they can *still* snap away quickly.

a lone smith can get bombed to death, get stuck in hitlock in spells, get dispelled and webbed.. or not kill whoever they come across.

none of this is theory crafting. there's a reason no guild has run a whitesmith in almost a decade. the only exceptions would be on servers that arent made for serious woe, who require things like materials having insane costs/weights, in which case theyre useful as couriers and that's it. even still they're outclassed by champions in those environments. i suppose the advantage is theyre a lot simpler to play than champion... that's about all they have going for them.

edit2: oh yeah it's funny you've mentioned how ro is mainly older players, but if you've been on any forums, you know how epic trole xddd D memer they can be.. it's kinda sad how childish the community tends to be :C
Well, I agree with you on the fact that champions are better killers on WOE/PVP than Whitesmiths and I never told that WS were the strongest of all classes but your message was that WS are nothing but a pure support class in WOE and they're not made for offensive gameplay. I mean, thats not true for sure. Is this some kind of joke or do people just want to make fun of certain classes in general?
« Last Edit: Nov 08, 2016, 12:20 PM by Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho »
Ragnarok Online Player since the very Beta. I'm still in love with the game.

Offline Zereges

Holy cow, what the hell are you talking about?
WS is usefull in PVE (high def mobs), but useless in PVP. You can kill random guys and that's it.

I wanted to say, that WS are ONE of the most strongest killers on PVP/WOE/BG. So they're not on the top but one of the best killer machines. They have a high rate of Damage per second. As a WS you can get 190 Aspd with less than 50 AGI.
In PVP, maybe. In BG/WoE, it's trash. I've played many different servers for long period of time and BGs are owned by creators, WoEs by wizards.

You have high vit, you can wear CK against Champions and other problematic groups.
High vit, but no reductions. You would have ~15k HP, but champions do 20+. Also, with high vit, the damage received from creator gets higher.

As a WS you own Paladins, Assasins, LKS(Well, who plays LK in woe lol) and also Creators. But creators are hard, once you're near them, its over for them because they cant outpot the high DPS.
Only champions tend to be problematic. But theres a way to dodge their Asura, but Im not telling you how. :)))

You definitely do not own Paladins, LKs nor assassins. All of those have stun proof and 18k (sins) - 25k (chickens) HP, GL with that.
You might be able to kill creator, if you can get near them, but they have ston proof and can run, so GL with catching them.
You definitely can't kill champion (for obvious reasons). You might be able to glitch/bug-abuse asura, but that won't help you.


WS in competitive PVP will run around, trying to catch something and die when someone notices him as free frag. True story bro.
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Offline Zereges

accidental double post, please delete.
« Last Edit: Nov 09, 2016, 04:40 AM by Zereges »
Player of Phoenix Fury, Pestilence & Ekirei.

Diablo 3: S13 Necromancer (top200).

Ragnarok break now.
My EndlessTower Video

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Offline Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho

Holy cow, what the hell are you talking about?
WS is usefull in PVE (high def mobs), but useless in PVP. You can kill random guys and that's it.
In PVP, maybe. In BG/WoE, it's trash. I've played many different servers for long period of time and BGs are owned by creators, WoEs by wizards.
High vit, but no reductions. You would have ~15k HP, but champions do 20+. Also, with high vit, the damage received from creator gets higher.

You definitely do not own Paladins, LKs nor assassins. All of those have stun proof and 18k (sins) - 25k (chickens) HP, GL with that.
You might be able to kill creator, if you can get near them, but they have ston proof and can run, so GL with catching them.
You definitely can't kill champion (for obvious reasons). You might be able to glitch/bug-abuse asura, but that won't help you.


WS in competitive PVP will run around, trying to catch something and die when someone notices him as free frag. True story bro.
You can kill Paladins (Ice Pick) for sure and Assasins also. Paladins are also getting damage back from their own sacrifice. And if you use Valk Mantle, he cant heal him self fast enough.
And why no reductions? Why dou you mean by that? I mean a WS with a onehanded weapon and shield not a pure DMG variant with twohanded weapon.
I know that a WS cant suvive a Asura without MVP cards. But you can "dodge" it. However 1vs1, Champions take the lead. I know that. But we're drifting from the original statement.  But the point is, that some people said, that WS are only a support class in WOE/PVP which obviously is not true.
BTW: Which server are you referring to? 99/70 style servers, classic?
« Last Edit: Nov 08, 2016, 05:05 PM by Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho »
Ragnarok Online Player since the very Beta. I'm still in love with the game.

Offline Blinzer

the class is not irrelevant, all good whitesmith players quit the game. khaled and kaleb made the class look like it was stronger than champion.

don't pay attention to what a bunch of people have to say about the class who don't know who those two are , and don't count on me to give you tips on how to become like them. we all follow the same rule: earn your own strength.
« Last Edit: Nov 08, 2016, 05:53 PM by Blinzer »

Offline Zereges

You can kill Paladins (Ice Pick) for sure and Assasins also. Paladins are also getting damage back from their own sacrifice. And if you use Valk Mantle, he cant heal him self fast enough.
Ok, I meant serious paladin, who is devotion paladin. You can't catch him, he has chicken (peco). He would be only laughing at you. Even if he let you catch him, you would do easily pottable damage.
Assassin has cloak and even if you could catch him, he has much more health than you think.

And why no reductions? Why dou you mean by that? I mean a WS with a onehanded weapon and shield not a pure DMG variant with twohanded weapon.
But the point is, that some people said, that WS are only a support class in WOE/PVP which obviously is not true.
In order to do high damage, you have to sacrifice reductions - weapon (damage weapon vs. combat), garment (Giant Whisper vs Ray/Nox), Headgear (Atk Bapho vs Def Bapho), Boots (Shackles vs health)

BTW: Which server are you referring to? 99/70 style servers, classic?
Obviously 99/70 pre-renewal, 190aspd, 150 instant cast, 0.2s delay, basic stuff server, with godlike items and MVP cards disabled.

But the point is, that some people said, that WS are only a support class in WOE/PVP which obviously is not true.
WS is not class meant to do anything on WoE/BG at all. Not a damage, not a support, not an option.

I might be able to find a WoE video of our guild playing melee characters with boosted WS (With soul link, he was immune to dispell).
Player of Phoenix Fury, Pestilence & Ekirei.

Diablo 3: S13 Necromancer (top200).

Ragnarok break now.
My EndlessTower Video

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Offline ggwp

I mispelled there as you easily could find out. You're just trying to find something that you can use against me.
I wanted to say, that WS are ONE of the most strongest killers on PVP/WOE/BG. So they're not on the top but one of the best killer machines. They have a high rate of Damage per second. As a WS you can get 190 Aspd with less than 50 AGI. True story bro. And if you dont know how to handle a WS, dont play with them. And stop complain like a sissy girl.
You have high vit, you can wear CK against Champions and other problematic groups.
As a WS you own Paladins, Assasins, LKS(Well, who plays LK in woe lol) and also Creators. But creators are hard, once you're near them, its over for them because they cant outpot the high DPS.
Only champions tend to be problematic. But theres a way to dodge their Asura, but Im not telling you how. :))) On PVP scale, hes doing a really really good job. And there a few jobs that can beat him. On WOE, there are better classes for combat, but hes still strong.

You need Full Adrenaline to have good aspd with CK/IP. Dispel would render you useless since you cant recast FAR. If you get dispelled ,  your DPS drop to 1/2.

All other class just outpot your damage , kite you endlessly or straight killing you. You might die 10 times to get 1 frag out of random noobs.

Offline Blinzer

You need Full Adrenaline to have good aspd with CK/IP. Dispel would render you useless since you cant recast FAR. If you get dispelled ,  your DPS drop to 1/2.

All other class just outpot your damage , kite you endlessly or straight killing you. You might die 10 times to get 1 frag out of random noobs.

The basics, man. Whitesmith can reach 189 aspd with a 69 AGI build, which makes it have the strongest DPS in the entire game. The problem is how vulnerable it is in the approach because debuffs mess it up really bad, but that's why you don't send the WS in until you have coverage of the classes that debuff him. You do have to play around the class to bring out its potential in WoE, but if they have one and you don't you're going to lose.

"Outpot your damage" You crack me up, kid. Whitesmith is the only class in the entire game that you can't outpot the damage of in WoE. How many years have you played this game again?
« Last Edit: Nov 10, 2016, 12:14 AM by Blinzer »

Offline Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho

The basics, man. Whitesmith can reach 189 aspd with a 69 AGI build, which makes it have the strongest DPS in the entire game. The problem is how vulnerable it is in the approach because debuffs mess it up really bad, but that's why you don't send the WS in until you have coverage of the classes that debuff him. You do have to play around the class to bring out its potential in WoE, but if they have one and you don't you're going to lose.

"Outpot your damage" You crack me up, kid. Whitesmith is the only class in the entire game that you can't outpot the damage of in WoE. How many years have you played this game again?
No, not true. You dont need to have 69 to reach 189 ASPD: I've tested it a few days ago. I only had to make 51-53 AGI in order to reach 190 ASPD. I even could've had 99 VIT if I wanted to make it that way. I had 17.500 - 18.000 base HP with Unfrozen. With the newer equips given you can make some sick builds. When is the last time you actually made some tests or are just mentioning old builds here?
« Last Edit: Nov 10, 2016, 02:46 AM by Kyo-Kusanagi-aka-GuessWho »
Ragnarok Online Player since the very Beta. I'm still in love with the game.