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Offline snowblind

WoE 1vit prof
« on: Sep 30, 2015, 03:04 AM »
I was bored and wondered if anyone has tried this build for an FS prof in WoE? (99/70 server)

99 agi, 99 dex, 1vit
HMH, 2 Gemini, Flame Skull for 100% stun immune,
unfrozen fire armor.
Since you only need Dispell, you can go job level 23 or something, so your vit bonus will only be +1.

strengths:
- less than 2k DPS from AD
- fire magic resistance overall higher than standard 73% demiresist build
- high aspd for more dispells

weaknesses:
- very low heal from pots & spp
- very low HP
- stone curse, sleep
- northwind/JT stalker
- sharpshoot maybe (defender)

So in theory this is a counter to a roster that relies only on AD, MS and DFF for damage. Not sure if people still use northwind, but I don't see it often. Obviously this build relies heavily on devo, and defender if the enemy uses snipers. I'm just not sure if devo can be refreshed fast enough for this to be viable. Maybe an MBK hitter would be needed to hitlock the pallies. Any experience? =D

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Offline Reality

Re: WoE 1vit prof
« Reply #1 on: Sep 30, 2015, 04:29 PM »
Eh.

It CAN work depending on the server you are playing and the competition you are up against (translation: they are bad). A High Wizard who knows you are running that build can run in and just nuke you with Jupitel Thunder, possibly destroying your Devo Paladin as well. Between Dispell, Meteor Storm, Storm Gust, Acid Demonstration, Arrow Shower (with status!), and MBK'd Jupitel Thunder spam, you're going to be hard pressed to get off a Dispell on a Wizard who is stacking properly beneath the DD Biochemists and frontline Scholars, even with a good Paladin. You're also taking a ridiculous amount of damage from Storm Gust, even with Valkyrja's Shield and Coldproof Potions (which you will need to recast like hell as a Scholar, taking away from your potion speed). A guild that focuses on Sharpshooting or North Wind DPS renders this build much weaker than the traditional build. On top of all that, you're down ~190% of potion efficiency due to no VIT investment, and much weaker to bad Champions. That potion speed decrease almost undoes all the benefits of your fire armor (which is also extremely difficult to enchant to +3 DEX). The lower DEX matters a lot considering Dispell happens to have a rather high sprite delay, meaning the ASPD increase is capped (183-184 ASPD?). Also, you'd need a VERY good Devo Paladin to support you and those are really hard to come by, considering most guilds tend to throw their weakest links into that role.

Problem with a build like this is how easy it is for an opposing guild to adapt to it with very few opportunity costs. It's high risk, medium reward, and I don't think that's worth it.

I love the idea of innovation (hint: I really want to try a full Tarot roster rng new meta huehue), but competitive players say that the meta is stale for a reason... It's figured out 98% already, and most servers are not bold enough to implement things that may shake it up a bit.

-Reality
« Last Edit: Sep 30, 2015, 04:49 PM by Reality »

Offline snowblind

Re: WoE 1vit prof
« Reply #2 on: Sep 30, 2015, 08:13 PM »
The meta being stale is exactly why I thought this might work. When I watch videos of woe servers I don't see DD wiz using anything other than MS. I even think you could get away with not using freeze immunity there. SG would have to coincide with ganban timing, so I don't think that's a big threat. That's assuming they don't know about your build, which is the whole point.

I don't really have enough WoE experience to judge these things and it's hard to put the devo & dispell dynamic and ganban windows into numbers. If it's not realistically possible to have devo up the majority of the time even with permanent hitlock on the pally, then this build isn't very good. But skill delay varies from server to server.

Personally, I don't take the competition very seriously in this game, so I'd say it's worth the risk to have some fun playing against a very specialized roster.

Offline Reality

Re: Re: WoE 1vit prof
« Reply #3 on: Oct 01, 2015, 10:43 PM »
The meta being stale is exactly why I thought this might work. When I watch videos of woe servers I don't see DD wiz using anything other than MS. I even think you could get away with not using freeze immunity there. SG would have to coincide with ganban timing, so I don't think that's a big threat. That's assuming they don't know about your build, which is the whole point.

I don't really have enough WoE experience to judge these things and it's hard to put the devo & dispell dynamic and ganban windows into numbers. If it's not realistically possible to have devo up the majority of the time even with permanent hitlock on the pally, then this build isn't very good. But skill delay varies from server to server.

Personally, I don't take the competition very seriously in this game, so I'd say it's worth the risk to have some fun playing against a very specialized roster.

Well the core of the problem with those videos is that most High Wizards are seriously not very good. I hate to sound like an elitist, but I've mained High Wizard for awhile, and I rarely see the kind of adaptability needed by a player to carry out a High Wizard's full potential in a GVG environment. I see them miss EASY opportunities to cause a full wipe with Quagmire, EASY opportunities to snag a KO on an important target with Jupitel Thunder, etc. Half of the guilds I see don't even have an assigned Storm Gust Wizard. It's just AHK Meteor Storm spam to them, though I know well that that's a big chunk of the role. If I knew you were running 5% Demihuman resistance, I would go for the Jupitel nuking as soon as the opportunity arose, to at least take out your Paladin.

Basically, with a build like this, we should put it into perspective. DD High Wizards should never be directly frontlining unless they want to be typically instagibbed, right? Factoring in INT MDEF and 40% Fire resistance from Valkyrja's Shield and Fireproof Potion (if they aren't running Book of Charms Vol. 1), compared to this Scholar build, they're going to be taking only a little higher damage from Meteor Storm (perhaps if not less, depending on the opposition's access to Salamander Card and Mind Breaker), MUCH less from Storm Gust, all while their maximum HP is disappointingly not all too far behind that of a Scholar.

To be honest, the only somewhat unique thing I would consider ever trying to make use of for the Scholar class is 100% Fire resistance swaps in order to fire off an OLP. (Under GVG mods, 97% might be enough for Scholars who run enough INT to unhide Stalkers with Heaven's Drive but I can't confirm from experience.)

If I was your designated Paladin, I would probably refuse to Devo you, especially with the high probability of being OHKO'd by a fishing Champion.

I mean, you can go ahead and try it. Most servers with decent WoE offer cheap stat resets (though it won't save your job level cap), and any WoE player should have stunproof gear on hand in case they ever need to reroll last second due to an absence, anyway. But make sure to get your guild leader's approval to try it and see, if not for only the first quarter or half of the WoE session before the castle is on the line (win castle win woe lel).

-Reality
« Last Edit: Oct 01, 2015, 10:59 PM by Reality »

Offline snowblind

Re: WoE 1vit prof
« Reply #4 on: Oct 03, 2015, 06:43 PM »
I can't imagine int mdef making a big difference, but you can always swap some agi for int. I also don't think the wizard comparison works for meteor storm.

Prof will have something like 12% demi-resist, -75% element modifier, 27% fire resist (proxy), and 27 mdef (megalith high fashion sandals), which adds up to ~88% reduction.

A wizard would only get 4% demi-resist, 11 mdef, 40% fire resist with resist pot. About 49% reduction in total, that's 4 times as much damage. Also close to double damage from SG compared to the prof who possibly wears marse card (not counting water resist potion).

You are right about the rest though. I don't woe anymore so I can't try the build. I just like to imagine and play with numbers.. besides playing BG, where this build would be really bad.

Offline Reality

Re: Re: WoE 1vit prof
« Reply #5 on: Oct 04, 2015, 12:53 PM »
I can't imagine int mdef making a big difference, but you can always swap some agi for int. I also don't think the wizard comparison works for meteor storm.

Prof will have something like 12% demi-resist, -75% element modifier, 27% fire resist (proxy), and 27 mdef (megalith high fashion sandals), which adds up to ~88% reduction.

A wizard would only get 4% demi-resist, 11 mdef, 40% fire resist with resist pot. About 49% reduction in total, that's 4 times as much damage. Also close to double damage from SG compared to the prof who possibly wears marse card (not counting water resist potion).

You are right about the rest though. I don't woe anymore so I can't try the build. I just like to imagine and play with numbers.. besides playing BG, where this build would be really bad.

INT MDEF is surprisingly a significant portion of resistances, especially under GVG mods where magic damage is reduced but INT MDEF isn't scaled at all. But its importance is dependent significantly on your competition's use of MBK and Salamander Card, too.

About the equipment... You're right. I forgot you were using Gemini Cards instead. So you'll have an additional 990 HP from Diabolus Boots or 10+ MDEF from High Quality Sandals and 7% resistances from Proxy Skin Fragment. But unlike DD Wizard, since Scholar is Dispell sponging quite frequently for frontline DPS, you'll lose your Coldproof and Thunderproof Potions a lot, so the 7% ends up really not amounting to THAT much... with only 12% DemiHuman resistance on top of that, too. You could consider Marse or Dustiness Cards to adapt, yes.

Also a Tarot Gypsy would absolutely destroy you with a couple sequential damage dealing cards, so that's a threat too.

I dunno. I'd let a backline class like FS Wizard run a build like this but I really don't think it's a good idea for a frontline sponger since the build only negates two forms of DPS, while all the rest of GVG DPS options are amplified in damage incredibly, without the potion rate from VIT to help combat that.

-Reality