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Ragnarok Online => Job Discussion => Magician => Topic started by: Backupuser on Apr 03, 2013, 04:24 PM

Title: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: Backupuser on Apr 03, 2013, 04:24 PM
Hi i have a problem with my PROF im confused on what card i should use on my headgear... /hmm

Kiel > Spam more bolts

High Wiz Card > Ignores mdef

Thanks in adv... /kis
Title: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: SukiChii on Apr 03, 2013, 04:43 PM
I would use HW for more damage.
Title: Re: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: Backupuser on Apr 03, 2013, 05:15 PM
Quote from: SukiChii on Apr 03, 2013, 04:43 PM
I would use HW for more damage.

How mch damage would i get if i had hwc with 9k+ 13k  Mattack compared to kiel... /?
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: DiesIrae on Apr 03, 2013, 06:15 PM
Depends on server trend/rate.
Most HR players, in example, don't use MDEF builds, that makes High Wizard card pretty useless.
But ... if MDEF is a effective way to gain protection from magic classes in your servers, you should consider this:
1. get your average base damage (without High Wizard card);
2. then check your damage with High Wizard card;
3. multiply your average base damage (#1) * 1.3 (theorically Kiel card increases DPS damage by 30%).
If damage #2 > #3: use High Wizard card.
If damage #3 => #2: use Kiel card.

I'd personally switch (assuming you are playing a HR with instant cast). When the damage using High Wizard card is low, switch to Kiel; if inconsistent with Kiel, go High Wizard card. Nothing changes: keep Kiel on.
Title: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: Backupuser on Apr 03, 2013, 10:35 PM
I would love to do that but in order to test it im gonna have to donate first and i dont want to waste money just for the sake of testing damage  /wah
Title: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: SukiChii on Apr 03, 2013, 10:45 PM
I'm guessing you're playing a low or mid rate?
Title: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: Backupuser on Apr 03, 2013, 10:52 PM
Im not really sure if its high rate or super high.../heh
Title: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: SukiChii on Apr 03, 2013, 11:08 PM
It's weird that you have to donate for those, since you could get kiel rather easy /hmm
Title: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: Backupuser on Apr 03, 2013, 11:16 PM
owhh i already have the kiel its the hwc im talking about  /heh
Title: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: SukiChii on Apr 03, 2013, 11:26 PM
Ah. Now I understand  /ok
Even in a HR or SHR, HW is not that common.
Title: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: Backupuser on Apr 03, 2013, 11:31 PM
yeah the god cards tend to be in the donate section or spend half your life hunting em...
Title: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: SukiChii on Apr 03, 2013, 11:51 PM
Oh OK.
Weird server. Are they expensive in-game?
Title: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: Backupuser on Apr 04, 2013, 12:02 AM
yeah it costs like 500 php dunno how mch it is in your currency but here you can prolly buy......

alot with it xD
Title: Re: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: DiesIrae on Apr 04, 2013, 08:10 AM
Quote from: Backupuser on Apr 04, 2013, 12:02 AM
yeah it costs like 500 php dunno how mch it is in your currency but here you can prolly buy......

alot with it xD
OT: selling MvP cards for 12$ is such a scam, but if you like it ...

Back to topic ...
As told, if people does use MDEF gears could be a nice choice. If they don't: leave it.
If your opponents uses 90 MDEF builds, you can have also 3 Kiels, the damage will be nullified. In case of 30~40 MDEF and above High Wizard card is better than Kiel.
But if they don't use any MDEF, or for a lower amount than 30, just go Kiels; pure spam ftw.
Title: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: Playtester on Apr 04, 2013, 09:34 AM
Faster casting has also other advantages than just more damage. Like giving status changes faster and more slow down from being hit for the enemy.
Title: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: Triper on Apr 04, 2013, 12:59 PM
If you want really to test both, get into rms test server, should be enough to check both and make your own conclusions[or get into any ro calc and see +/- the differences to get a small sight of what both can do].

For me, personally, HWC is a swap card since good players won't be with high mdef so the card will just kill int and small numbers of mdef. While that can make a difference sometimes in terms of dmg, being able to use faster skills as a Prof is a big advantage and big enough to default Kiel.
Title: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: sheena on Apr 27, 2013, 12:23 AM
I also have the same question except that HW is better on the server. Anyway, as for the fast JT spam since I already met the no cast requirement. Does ASPD affect the spam rate or do I add more Dex to it? Back in a HR server the JT went very fast with over 250 dex (the no cast was changed to 225)
Title: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: SukiChii on Apr 27, 2013, 12:47 AM
JT's cooldown depends on ASPD.
Title: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: Triper on Apr 27, 2013, 02:02 AM
Or just "dance" it to spam if you've already insta cast =P
Title: Re: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: sheena on Apr 27, 2013, 06:16 AM
Quote from: SukiChii on Apr 27, 2013, 12:47 AM
JT's cooldown depends on ASPD.
Does this apply to all spells that have the whacking sounds of your attack? I can hear the dagger/rod when I use it
Title: Re: Re: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: Hermos on Apr 27, 2013, 10:56 AM
Quote from: sheena on Apr 27, 2013, 06:16 AM
Does this apply to all spells that have the whacking sounds of your attack? I can hear the dagger/rod when I use it

JT's cooldown doesn't really depend on aspd. It's more like aspd affects the anymation delay of that spell. When you are at a high aspd, the animation of the skill is kinda cut, so you can spam it faster. I know that this works with JT and Magic Crasher for high wizards and also Waterball on Aegis platform (although I've never seen this one, only heard from it).
Title: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: Backupuser on Apr 28, 2013, 09:55 AM
Yeah  apsd does affect the speed of jt cause ive tried a wiz with 0 agi and with 196 atk speed...
Title: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: Triper on Apr 28, 2013, 11:52 AM
ASPD affects every single skill in the game. It reduces the animation delay.
Title: Re: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: Hermos on Apr 28, 2013, 07:31 PM
Quote from: Triper on Apr 28, 2013, 11:52 AM
ASPD affects every single skill in the game. It reduces the animation delay.

Hmm, under bragi, right? Because, for example, if you have 190 aspd on a wiz, without bragi  you'll still have 5 seconds between one cast and the next. Although you'll spam JT much faster, even without bragi, at 190 aspd.
Title: Re: Kiel or High Wiz Card
Post by: Triper on Apr 28, 2013, 08:44 PM
Well, you don't really need bragi[even if it makes it a lot easier], any -%aftercast gear already makes you notice it[Expert Ring, etc]. As soon as you don't have the fixed delay, aspd will reduce it and the higher you've, the more you will notice helping you and in the moment you have aspd being the only limitation on the delay you either use it at the higher possible or start cancelling the animations when possible[sometimes it doesn't help doing that].

Video to help notice how it's done:
Spoiler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGAOFrvTEzU
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Pics to understand it if video fails:
Spoiler
If you watch near the second 10, it goes something like this[look at his mouse pointer moving]:
  • 1 - (http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s259/DTriper/dance1.png)Click to BB[Bowling Bash]
  • 2 - (http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s259/DTriper/dance2.png)As soon as the BB lands, he clicks near where he's to cancel the animation
  • 3 - (http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s259/DTriper/dance3.png)Then move again the mouse to strike another BB
  • 4 - (http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s259/DTriper/dance4.png)And cancels the animation again with a click near where he is
[close]