Reinventing Ragnarok - by a Game Designer

[Cawliflower]

Just no. The game has enough problems. No reason for you to reinvent the s***.

[Neffletics]

Just no. The game has enough problems. No reason for you to reinvent the s***.

If you have nothing good to say, just shut your mouth. Your negativity doesn't contribute anything to this discussion.

[Suspension]

Just no. The game has enough problems. No reason for you to reinvent the s***.

Just because there are people who knows best about the game and about running a server doesn't mean you need to be butthurt.

Stay calm.

[annaquin]

Well changing Venom Splasher into Chain lighting with splash effect 3x3 is quite a very good idea as so far VS is pretty much a dead skill.

as remastering the game ... Dodge from thief should be changed to cope with all the bypass flee skills added ...
More like a passive Guard ability

As the game is designed , a dodge GX need to get Counter Slash for only 20% skill dodge max which not been near primary ability of a dodge Crusa that get 30%  and Dodge LK that obtain a 50% .

[Yuzo]

Take inspiration from other games. One cool thing would be bonus damage vs particular classes, either via item bonus or inherent class ability. A rock-paper-scissors situation can come from this.

[annaquin]

I totally agree with this and I think gear should be the one providing skills and ability where class specification should only grand passive skill as marginal helper.

Ragnarok is missing so many classes : Necromant, Lancer, Samurai, Summoner, Geomancer, Time Mage

also skill specialisation are quite messy .. Poison branch is so f*** up..
Evenom as Thief -> Poison React + Enchant Poison as Sin -> EDP as Sin X -> New Poison as GX + Poisonning barely usefull + Smoke Bombe and Pressure hugely expensive and all of sudden ...

Self poisonned Chaser + Deadly Infection + Poison Buster Surpass all whatever poison build
Magic Sorcerer Poison Branch far superior to whatever long range GX can come up with poison

Killing Cloud superior to Smoke Bomb + Venm Dust + venom Splasher all together

[ShadowLight]

I've been going through ALL comments and feedback on this forum and my own. Based on what I learn, I've made a big change on my next patch (should be the first official one). This only includes skill changes, I have some other changes that might affect these but let me know what you guys think:

Spoiler

GENERAL CHANGES

All players' MaxHP will be increased by 100%.



STATUS CHANGES

Bleeding:

Any damage done on Bleeding target will cause them to take 20% of any the next damage received during the duration over 5 seconds.



Poison:

Poison can be lethal (can cause death).

Poison effect is now stackable (up to 20).

Poisoned target will take 20 hp per seconds every stack until the duration end.

If the effect is removed before the duration end (by skill or items), the player will take 50% of the remaining duration damage.



CLASS CHANGES

Lord KnightCharacter_LordKnight.jpg

Moving HP Recovery regenerates 100% of standing recovery.
Parry will now block all physical attacks (both ranged and melee) for 6 seconds. It now has a 1-minute cooldown.
Auto-Counter will now only counter one physical attack (both ranged and melee). When countered, the attacking enemy will be stunned for 3 seconds. It now has a 30-second cooldown.
Joint Beat will reduce target's movement speed up to 50%, last 5 seconds.
Head Crush now has a 100% chance to bleed enemy that can last up to 15 seconds. It now has a 45-seconds cooldown.
Frenzy will no longer restrict players from chatting or to be healed.


PaladinCharacter_Paladin.jpg

Moving HP Recovery regenerates 100% of standing recovery.
Devotion will now share 50% of the target's damage but has twice the range.
Autoguard will now grant the Paladin a shield that is blocks damage based on Paladin's MaxHP (up to 30%). It now has a 1 minute stay-duration and cooldown. Effects is shared on devoted target.
Reflect shield will cause the Paladin to lose 15 SP per second. Effects is shared on devoted target.
Defender will reduce Paladin's movement speed by 80%. Effects is shared on devoted target.
Allied target affected by Providence will receive 75% of healing done by the Paladin. Skill effect lasts 10 seconds and it now has a 15 seconds cooldown.
Pressure will reduce all healing received on enemy target by 50% for 10 seconds. It now has a 1-minute cooldown.


Assassin Cross

Character_AssassinCross.jpg

Detoxify can only be casted on yourself.
Sprinkle Sand blinds the target for 3 seconds. It now has a 30 seconds cooldown.
Throw Stone will stun the target for 0.5 seconds. It now has a 0.5 seconds cooldown.
Envenom now has 100% chance to poison the target. Casting Envenom on poisoned target will increase their poison stack by 1. It now has a 15 seconds cooldown (can be reduced to 5 seconds at max level)
Create Deadly Poison now has 100% success rate.
Enchant Deadly Poison no longer require Poison Bottle but will only increase your damage against poisoned targets. If you consume a Poison Bottle, your damage will increase against both poisoned and non-poisoned enemies.
Sonic Blow will deal twice the damage and has 100% hit rate when done behind target. It now has a 6 seconds cooldown.
Grimtooth will cause the player to be immobilized for 3 seconds. It now has a 10 second cooldown.
Venom Dust no longer require red gemstone. Standing on Venom Dust will cause player to be poisoned and their stack to increase by one per second.
Venom Splasher no longer require red gemstone or the target to be 2/3 HP. Venom Splasher will cause the target to explode every 0.5 seconds dealing 50% ATK and spread poison status on and around the target (increasing poison stack if they are already poisoned). It now has a 1-minute cooldown.
Soul Breaker damage is increased by 5% per poison stack on target.


Chaser

Character_Chaser.jpg

Detoxify can only be casted on yourself.
Sprinkle Sand blinds the target for 3 seconds. It now has a 30 seconds cooldown.
Throw Stone will stun the target for 0.5 seconds. It now has a 0.5 seconds cooldown.
Envenom now has 100% chance to poison the target. Casting Envenom on poisoned target will increase their poison stack by 1. It now has a 15 seconds cooldown (can be reduced to 5 seconds at max level)
All strip skills has 100% chance, last 8 seconds and has a 30 seconds cooldown. Full strip has a 1 minute cooldown.
Intimidate will now teleport you and the target 10 cells behind you.
Plagiarism is now an active skill. When casted on a player, the next spell the player cast will be copied (and will remove the plagiarism skill effect). Plagiarism can be casted while hiding/chase walk and it will not reveal the Stalker. Copied skill last 30 seconds.
Preserve increase the duration of copied skill to 10 minutes.
Backstab deals twice as much damage on target with full health and causes bleeding effect.
Raid deals 50% more damage per target hit, stunning them for 2 seconds and blinding them for 5 seconds. It now has a 15 seconds cooldown.
Gangster Paradise will cause players around stalker to be invisible (similar to Cloaking) for 8 seconds. Can be used while hiding/chase walk. It has a 7x7 area of effect.


Sniper

Character_Sniper.jpg

Arrow are no longer required to shoot and use skills.
Sharpshooting no longer has cast time and will deal triple the damage on targets below 35% HP. It now has a 15 seconds cooldown.
Arrow Making will allow players to choose their arrow of choice (Fire Arrow, Ice Arrow, etc).
Traps are no longer required to use trap skills.
Blitz Beat chance will now based on Beast Bane instead of LUK. 3% * Beast Bane Level.
Falcon Assault will deal twice the damage on targets afflicted by Freeze, Sleep, Blind and Ankle Snare. It now has an 8 second cooldown.


Clown/Gypsy

Character_Clown.jpgCharacter_Gypsy.jpg

Pang Voice can also be cast on friendly target. When a friendly target is affected by Pang Voice, they will be healed every second for 8 seconds based on the caster's int and level.
[Clown Only] Dissonance will now deal damage based on the caster's int and level.
Apple of Idun and Service for You will heal players based on the caster's INT and level.
Frost Joker/Scream chance increased to 100%/95%/90%/85%/80%. The chance is reduced depending on the range of the enemy. For each cell apart, the chance is reduced by 12%.
Using Encore now leaves a copy of the song's ground effect on the player's current position for 10 seconds.


High Priest

Character_HighPriest.jpg

When casting Turn Undead to non-undead target, their property will change to Undead for 10 seconds. It now has a 5 seconds cooldown.
Resurrection no longer has a change to instantly kill or damage Undead property monsters. Resurrection will no longer require blue gemstone. But it now has a 2-seconds fixed cast time.
Sanctuary will no longer require blue gemstone. It now has a 30 seconds cooldown.
Basilica no longer require holy water, yellow gemstone, blue gemstone and red gemstone but it will last only up to 10 seconds. It now has a 5 minute cooldown.
Safety Wall no longer require blue gemstone. But it has a 25 seconds cooldown.
Aspersio no longer require Holy Water.
Assumptio will now reduce all damage taken by 20%.
Redemptio will no longer cause the player to sacrifice himself/herself, but it now has a 3 minute cooldown.


Champion

Character_Champion.jpg

All combo skill are now targeted skill and can be used independently. Each combo skill will grant the player one spirit sphere (max of 5).
Chain Finish will stun the enemy for 1 second. It has an 8 seconds cooldown.
Chain Crush Combo has an 8 seconds cooldown.
Call Spirits reworked: It is now a passive ability. Call spirits will grant +5 ATK for each spirit sphere.
Dangerous Soul Collect now has a 1 minute cooldown and no longer has a cast time.
Explosion Spirits no longer reduce natural recovery of SP.
Asura Strike reworked:
Old: Asura strike can only be casted if the user is on Explosion Spirits buff and has 5 spirit sphere. After using Asura Strike HP/SP will not regenerate normally for 5 minutes.
New: Asura strike can be used at any time. After using Asura Strike SP will not regenerate normally or by items for 3 minutes. If Asura Strike is used with Explosion Spirits buff and 5 spirit spheres, it will not consume any SP nor will it restrict SP regeneration.
Absorb spirit sphere is now self-cast. The skill will consume 1 spirit sphere and heal the Champion 300% of ATK.
Throw Spirit Sphere will now target allies. It will heal 300% of the Champion's ATK per spirit sphere.
Blade Stop is now a target skill, can be used at any time (no longer require the player to "catch" attacks) and lasts up to 6 seconds. While in freeze condition, the Champion can cast Throw Sphere and Asura Strike.


High Wizard

Character_HighWizard.jpg

Fire Pillar no longer require Blue Gemstone.
Each spirit from Soul Strike will cause the target to take extra damage from consecutive Soul Strike (up to 150% extra damage). This effect will also cause your Napalm Beat to deal damage equal to the target's MaxHP (up to 30%). Napalm Beat bonus damage does not work on bosses.
Safety Wall no longer require Blue Gemstone. It now has a 25 seconds cooldown.
Gravitation Field is now a channeling spell and last up to 6 seconds.


Professor

Character_Professor.jpg

Each spirit from Soul Strike will cause the target to take extra damage from consecutive Soul Strike (up to 150% extra damage). This effect will also cause your Napalm Beat to deal damage equal to the target's MaxHP (up to 30%). This bonus damage does not work on bosses.
Soul Burn will no longer fail and will burn 5%/10%/15%/20%/25% of the target's SP and deal twice the SP burned.
Spells cast by Auto Spell no longer cost any SP
Successful Magic Rod will make the Sage cast the spell back to the user.
Autospell will also trigger when a player cast a target-able spell.
Advanced Book will also increase MATK by 3 per level.
Spider Web no longer require Cobweb. It has a 15 seconds cooldown.
Dragonology skill will now grant +2 MDEF per level.
Safety Wall no longer require Blue Gemstone. It now has a 25 seconds cooldown.
Deluge, Violent Gale, Volcano, Frost Weapon, Lightning Loader and Flame Launcher no longer require reagents.


Whitesmith

Character_Whitesmith.jpg

Vending will now reduce Mammonite zeny requirement up to 90%.
Skin Tempering will also grant up to 25% damage reduction.
Iron Tempering will also grant up to 25 DEF.
Steel Tempering will also grant up to 5% DEF bonus.
Enchanted Stone Craft will also grant up to 25% MDEF.
Ore Discovery will also grant up to 15% bonus HIT.
Research Oridecon will also grant up to 20% extra critical damage.
Weaponry Research will increase ATK up to 10%.
Smith Dagger, Smith Spear, Smith Sword, Smith Brass Knuckle, Smith Two-Handed Sword, Smith Mace and Smith Axe will each increase ATK by +1 per level.
Meltdown will has a chance to reduce Attack Power or Defense instead of breaking player's equipment.
Creator

Character_Creator.jpg

Vending will now reduce Mammonite zeny requirement up to 90%.
Potion Pitcher will no longer require potions but has 50 SP cost.
Slim Potion Pitcher will no longer require slim potions but has 150 SP cost.
Demonstration no longer require Bottle Grenade and will now has a chance to reduce Attack Power or Defense instead of breaking player's equipment. It has a 1-second cooldown and the stay-effect duration is set to 2/4/6/8/10 seconds.
Acid Terror no longer require Acid Bottle but has a 1 seconds fixed cast time and 100% change to bleed.
Acid Demonstration no longer require Bottle Grenade and Acid Bottle but has a 1 second fixed cast time. It now has a 10 seconds cooldown.
Homunculus no longer require reagents to create.


_____________________________________________________________________________

[close]

[DjSonic]

i love these new changes, cant wait for them to be implemented!!! Keep up the good work and all the best, hope this server blossoms!!!

[Wyvern]

That's quite the number of skill changes. I hope some mobs (mainly MVPs/high-end areas) are also adjusted (in terms of skills they use and stats) to reflect that. I haven't read everything in this topic so I apologize is this was already brought up. I also do think some of the new skill changes could be better adjusted~

But it's cool to see a lot of work done to make RO pretty different.

[annaquin]

You got hate on wizard or what ?

Firepillar never required blue gem since 2008 and deal 7x7 aoe dmg 1-5 lvl and 5x5 aoe dmg 6-10.. so you actually nerfed it.
Safetywall 25 sec cool down ... how wizard can be played then ?
Gravitation Field has always be a channeled skill ...
So you pretty much nerfer Wizard to a dead zone ..

Grimtooth has a cool down O_o ? The only skill worth playing sin X , you killed it ? Yet you boosted Frenzy to barely no limit

You also killed EDP , only boosted dmg against poisoned target that only care about herbal and 80 dmg ...
you actually nerfed venom spalsher into a leech type dmg ... 1500% got nerfed into 900%  ..

So to summarize it ...

You actually OVER MEGA BUFFER LK to a point it's not even jokeable ..
100% bleed->+20% dmg + Frenzy aspd 190 for 60sec = boost +7400% dmg

and nerfed all the other classes..but Crusa and Crusa ( Pressure = Wound lvl 4)

[snowblind]

I don't think you understand at all what makes RO mechanics enjoyable, and your priorities on what needs changing are way off. I would give an example, but I don't even know where to begin.. Most of these changes are either completely irrelevant or arbitrarily nerf a whole class to death. Makes me wonder if you've ever played WoE or killed an MvP.

[ShadowLight]

That's quite the number of skill changes. I hope some mobs (mainly MVPs/high-end areas) are also adjusted (in terms of skills they use and stats) to reflect that. I haven't read everything in this topic so I apologize is this was already brought up. I also do think some of the new skill changes could be better adjusted~

But it's cool to see a lot of work done to make RO pretty different.

I don't think you understand at all what makes RO mechanics enjoyable, and your priorities on what needs changing are way off. I would give an example, but I don't even know where to begin.. Most of these changes are either completely irrelevant or arbitrarily nerf a whole class to death. Makes me wonder if you've ever played WoE or killed an MvP.

These changes is done based on what will be introduced in the game (New MvPs, New Dungeons, Different WoE, Different PvP) that is the reason why it looks more "random". Although I'm trying my best to keep as much as RO 'essense' in the game as possible, it will be different - it is called Reinventing Ragnarok afterall. We'll do all we can to make this as fun as possible without making it a totally different game.

You got hate on wizard or what ?

Firepillar never required blue gem since 2008 and deal 7x7 aoe dmg 1-5 lvl and 5x5 aoe dmg 6-10.. so you actually nerfed it.
Safetywall 25 sec cool down ... how wizard can be played then ?
Gravitation Field has always be a channeled skill ...
So you pretty much nerfer Wizard to a dead zone ..

Grimtooth has a cool down O_o ? The only skill worth playing sin X , you killed it ? Yet you boosted Frenzy to barely no limit

You also killed EDP , only boosted dmg against poisoned target that only care about herbal and 80 dmg ...
you actually nerfed venom spalsher into a leech type dmg ... 1500% got nerfed into 900%  ..

So to summarize it ...

You actually OVER MEGA BUFFER LK to a point it's not even jokeable ..
100% bleed->+20% dmg + Frenzy aspd 190 for 60sec = boost +7400% dmg

and nerfed all the other classes..but Crusa and Crusa ( Pressure = Wound lvl 4)

Wizard is actually one of my favorite class aside from Assassin and Champion. My knowledge must be outdated then regarding the blue gemstone, but I don't see how I'm nerfing it. I'm not changing anything on Fire Pillar other than removing the reagents, which could only mean I either buff it or leaving it as it is. Let me know if I miss something. Again with the Gravitational Field, if it is, then I'm jsut leaving it as it is.

For Assassin Cross, I really don't see why you're saying I'm nerfing EDP:

Enchant Deadly Poison no longer require Poison Bottle but will only increase your damage against poisoned targets. If you consume a Poison Bottle, your damage will increase against both poisoned and non-poisoned enemies.

EDP can work like in normal RO. The only difference is that you can actually have the EDP effect without the poison bottle if you poison your enemy (which is not hard considering 100% poison chance).
As for poison, I would say, good luck trying to keep herbing. You will be taking a lot of damage (300 damage per stack) every time you use herb.

For LK, you're right. This need some rework to be done, I was planning to boost up tank capability but ended up introducing a big DPS-er (planning to reduce the HP multiplication and damage boost). Although the changes definitely buff up the damage, but keep in mind that the Bleed only last 15 seconds and you can't refresh it when you can't use skills. Also, the changes on other classes makes it easier for them to run away or stop the enemy (there is no 100% resistance to any statuses for players).

With all these cooldown, I understand why you see it as a nerf for all classes, but this is parallel to the style of change I want to achieve. Most of these changes are done to introduce another way of playing RO (I'm not saying it is better). Instead of using the same skill over and over and over again (and spam potion), you have to make a decision on when is the best time to use it. This is done by introducing a longer cooldown and buff in damage/usage of the skills. As a result, the fight will feel slower/longer but you will have more time to react and get out of sticky situations (less one hit kills).

Again, I really do appreciate ALL feedback on this. I've learned so much ever since I started this topic. I don't really care if all you have to say is negative, as long as you can tell me why you don't like it. This will help me learn on what players wants and think and make me a better developer - and a person. Don't hesitate to leave a reply, I'm not here to be offended ... I'm here to learn.

[Neffletics]

Again, I really do appreciate ALL feedback on this. I've learned so much ever since I started this topic. I don't really care if all you have to say is negative, as long as you can tell me why you don't like it. This will help me learn on what players wants and think and make me a better developer - and a person. Don't hesitate to leave a reply, I'm not here to be offended ... I'm here to learn.

I really enjoy the brainstorming here. I've been following this topic since it was posted. s***, nonsense negative response is just annoying af.

[annaquin]

Hi Shadow, you should fix a formula for balance change and stick to it... otherwise it will be a pain to try out all combination.

So far I find a loop hole that is hugely OP for LK and SX.

LK against non thorn shield wielder :
Charge Attack->Head Crush with Toad card-> 100% poison + 100% bleeding-> Spear Stab->Charge Attack
You granted 3 sec immobility out of head crush which activate the loop

I am not finish
SX , Cloak+Venom Splasher->Evenom + Toad->Equip Dual Tooth Blade+9 (80% slow cast ) with 2 magnolia card + nightmare combo ( 9% curse )+Curse Arrow ( +5% curse )->Provoke->Venom Dust-> Loop


As for touching Grimtooth ... Hmm

I think most of players will be scared of your changes just because of grimtooth... you see, Grimtooth is the SKILL, it's like touching Double Strafe ... kRO and jRO players has been traumatised by EDP grimtooth for almost a decade and that was the only thing a Sin X had ( the rest was crap skill )

I don't see the point of making Grimtooth not an ASPD skill , since it's already hard for a sin X to remain hidden, the whole point of been hidden is to avoid target to cast Sigt and walk toward you. Tactically it's a timing to take a Sniper off guard or get revealed and die. Without a hunter around, a SX could be a catastrophy to any guild and its also the only way to break appart Land of Protection system.

Also , your server need a meeting point, any new comers will be lost not knowing where to meet people

[ShadowLight]

Hi Shadow, you should fix a formula for balance change and stick to it... otherwise it will be a pain to try out all combination.

So far I find a loop hole that is hugely OP for LK and SX.

LK against non thorn shield wielder :
Charge Attack->Head Crush with Toad card-> 100% poison + 100% bleeding-> Spear Stab->Charge Attack
You granted 3 sec immobility out of head crush which activate the loop

I am not finish
SX , Cloak+Venom Splasher->Evenom + Toad->Equip Dual Tooth Blade+9 (80% slow cast ) with 2 magnolia card + nightmare combo ( 9% curse )+Curse Arrow ( +5% curse )->Provoke->Venom Dust-> Loop


As for touching Grimtooth ... Hmm

I think most of players will be scared of your changes just because of grimtooth... you see, Grimtooth is the SKILL, it's like touching Double Strafe ... kRO and jRO players has been traumatised by EDP grimtooth for almost a decade and that was the only thing a Sin X had ( the rest was crap skill )

I don't see the point of making Grimtooth not an ASPD skill , since it's already hard for a sin X to remain hidden, the whole point of been hidden is to avoid target to cast Sigt and walk toward you. Tactically it's a timing to take a Sniper off guard or get revealed and die. Without a hunter around, a SX could be a catastrophy to any guild and its also the only way to break appart Land of Protection system.

Also , your server need a meeting point, any new comers will be lost not knowing where to meet people

I just realized my wording is totally wrong for bleeding status. It should be the NEXT attack, it doesn't stack. Now I totally understand what you meant by 7400% damage.

As for the poison, this is still very experimental. But the poison damage per stack can be adjusted as needed.

For classes, I targeted 2-3 unique build with different feel.

Assassin for example, you can see that there are two types: Stealth kill - Poison Spreader.

• Stealth kill focus on doing initial burst damage (hence the buff on sonic blow on hidden) and use whatever damage you have left to finish them. Due to higher cooldown on main skills, this type would have to kill the enemy once they opened it (with SB). If they can't kill the enemy, they will be at a disadvantge.
• Poison Spreader has less damage initially but higher damage over time (and possible AOE). The longer you fight them, the more damage you will take.

I'm not going to give away I have in store for other classes but they will follow this kind of variance between builds. Also, I would like the class to feel more like ... well, the class. Assassins should be stealthy and smart not charging forward and auto-attacking with dual dagger like some mad warrior. Sniper should be calm and using arrows wisely and not shooting as if they have a machine gun (that's gunslingers job!).

I would want to move away from spamming one skill, one shotting or autoattacking build to a build where you would have to utilize most of your skills. Different skills are useful at different times. Though I have two builds that could rely on auto-attacking (*hint* WS *hint*).

My server do need a meeting point . I thought at first Spa would be the place, doesn't seem that way.