Rebirth RO legalizing cyber prostitution | Content argued not suitable to kids

[-Una-]

I believe that in my posts on this thread so far I have been neutral for the most part, aside from the fact that it is not appropriate to bring cyber sex to a game server with a population that consists of so many players under the age of 18. But after reading this, I must say that I am so glad that there are so many other servers out there that don't feel the need to mention sex, firearms, drugs, and alcohol as trade items in their rules. This is seriously going downhill for Rebirth. Since I don't play your server, I have no vendettas, I have no grudges, I only have...what is the word? OH YEAH!! MORALS!

[Triper]

(...)After reading this(...)

After reading that updated version [yes, the previous version didn't had some of the items that it has now], I don't even get any more what is the point of it. I though it was about game trading since it is what is presented at the section description - Trade credits for things in other games - but it seems that it's now about game trading and ridiculous stuff because serious, who the heck makes a game forum a place where you can get drugs, weapons, cyber sex and alcohol? Is this the new place where kids from high school will get their forbidden stuff? It really looks like someone wants to make that a reality just for the sake of the server's profit.

And to the ones asking, this RebirthOfficial is probably[means to not get my word as 100% valid, a sure thing] Ancyker - search at this topic for his name since Syphon has his own and he barely knows English at a decent level, according to the Rebirth RO staff, to discuss anything decently. He's another admin paid by Syphon to manage the server like many others in the past.

[Skulomania]

After reading that updated version [yes, the previous version didn't had some of the items that it has now], I don't even get any more what is the point of it. I though it was about game trading since it is what is presented at the section description - Trade credits for things in other games - but it seems that it's now about game trading and ridiculous stuff because serious, who the heck makes a game forum a place where you can get drugs, weapons, cyber sex and alcohol? Is this the new place where kids from high school will get their forbidden stuff? It really looks like someone wants to make that a reality just for the sake of the server's profit.

And to the ones asking, this RebirthOfficial is probably[means to not get my word as 100% valid, a sure thing] Ancyker - search at this topic for his name since Syphon has his own and he barely knows English at a decent level, according to the Rebirth RO staff, to discuss anything decently. He's another admin paid by Syphon to manage the server like many others in the past.

Oh man that is weird...There has to be a 18+ registration for this server...there just has to be... To anyone who finds this disturbing, and would not like their child , or family, partaking in a server like this, I would advise you to check out other servers. 98% of servers are not like this, I assure you.

But oh man, I wasn't even aware of this. That is weird I must say. This is not what Ragnarok is about smh, I'm shocked people deliberately choose to play on this server... RebirthRO is a sad imitation of a business company that wants to squeeze every cent from your pocket, and doesn't give 2 s*** about you. I'm surprised people deliberately join it, when there are other servers out there. But, oh well.

[Leramani]

Ive played RebirthRo and before Ancyker came along (again, it seems) I loved the server. But since he started there, Ive seen changes. More and more explicit talk and less and less suitable for minors. That does explain the rather large population, that is hard to wake up. It has been nagging me a bit since spring, but this later stuff is just so destructive and so opposite to what a sane adult population wants for its children. No parent want their kids socializing with the kind of crowd that Ancy likes.

He has no business in a kids game.

[Innomite]

This is ridiculous. Not only the reason of the thread (which was ridiculous already) but you guys trying to bring justice by your own hands.

This is getting out of control, stop being retarded already.

[RebirthOfficial]

I believe that in my posts on this thread so far I have been neutral for the most part, aside from the fact that it is not appropriate to bring cyber sex to a game server with a population that consists of so many players under the age of 18. But after reading this, I must say that I am so glad that there are so many other servers out there that don't feel the need to mention sex, firearms, drugs, and alcohol as trade items in their rules. This is seriously going downhill for Rebirth. Since I don't play your server, I have no vendettas, I have no grudges, I only have...what is the word? OH YEAH!! MORALS!

There was an announcement on the topic originally, which stated that all forms of RMT for credits was legal, however, the service was aimed at trading for things in other games hence the name of the subforum. Then questions started popping up "can I sell ____?" "is ____ ok?" so a list was made to cover all conceivable questionable items. The question of firearms came up during the original discussion over whether or not discussion of adult services should be allowed on the forum. While the eventual decision was to disallow the discussion of adult service on the forum, the original posed question of "could we sell guns?" remained open. Again, we went with the law and allowed it (provided that people follow the law and use a licensed dealer for the trade). I threw in the drugs rulings because people in main asked.

===

Not really sure why this topic is still here, as the original point was that discussion in public was problematic due to children being able to find it easily. It took a bit to take that in because most of the original conversation was aimed at the girl who posted the topic: calling her names, questioning her morals, etc. All of which I feel is unfair. You offer no apology to her, so I offer none to you.

The original topic was removed, but we will not disallow something which is legal and causes no direct harm to the server or its players. We disallowed it in public to protect minors on the server, however, what adults do on their own is their business, not ours and certainly not yours.

If you have a problem with us allowing legal activity, talk to your elected politicians and have the laws changed. Barring that, you're on your own.

[Hummingbird]

Ha. Hahah.. hahahahha!  Wait, you're serious?  This is actually happening?  My god.

I've seen some crazy things on RO over the many years I've been around, but this easily tops the list.  Promoting cyber prostitution for in-game currency?  Really?  Considering it's apparently being actively promoted, I don't see any +18 warning signs on the RebirthRO website other than the thread itself.  Yes porn & sexual images can be found anywhere for those who seek them, but what if say.. an innocent 12 year old child comes onto your server to y'know.. play Ragnarok Online, and sees your active promotion of cyber prostitution in Main chat?  Do you not think that is slightly messed up?

Not saying I have anything against consenting adults giving each other private/sexual shows. (aka. Lenaia)  If that's what two consenting adults want to do, then good for you.  However, what about the kids on your server?  Do they really need to be exposed to this?

Oh, and what happens if someone younger than 18 decides to get sexual on webcam for in-game currency based on your promotion of this?  Then you'll be actively promoting child porn without knowing it!  I highly doubt you can verify 100% the age of every single girl/guy who decides to give sexual cam shows for in-game currency, and yet.. you're actively promoting it on your server regardless.

Good for you RebirthRO, you've officially hit a new low.

-X

QFT! this should be posted on the 9th page. =)))

@RebirthRO,

If you still have conscience, please stop degrading this game and the people who are involved on this kind of sht. Make your brain work, there are other ways on how to promote your server and make it an interesting one. Making it legalize means you're promoting it. The topic became "you promoting cyber prostitution".

@Lenaia

If you think what you're doing is "ok", then you need help girlfriend. Talk to your parents or friends and ask for their opinion if doing this kind of things are "ok". You're letting someone see your body for an effin credits. You should stop this before it becomes a hobby.

and what if it's not you on the cam or picture? that's sad.

Oh well, what i can do is to post something on facebook and tell my friends to no to play on this server. I hope RMS is doing something about this matter.

[flyingheo]

Not really sure why this topic is still here, as the original point was that discussion in public was problematic due to children being able to find it easily. It took a bit to take that in because most of the original conversation was aimed at the girl who posted the topic: calling her names, questioning her morals, etc. All of which I feel is unfair. You offer no apology to her, so I offer none to you.

The original topic was removed, but we will not disallow something which is legal and causes no direct harm to the server or its players. We disallowed it in public to protect minors on the server, however, what adults do on their own is their business, not ours and certainly not yours.

If you have a problem with us allowing legal activity, talk to your elected politicians and have the laws changed. Barring that, you're on your own.

Really? Is this how you're going to back up your server and yourself? "You're not going to apologize, so why should I?" How old are you? You believe that we have no rights to be involved in 'Adult' personal decision. Then what rights does RebirthRO have to do so? Because it's within the server? Because it's involving the trading of RebirthRO's cash credit? This type of transaction should always be a private matter between the parties that are involved. Not RebirthRO's jurisdiction.

What can you do as a Admin? Ban their account? Ban their ip? Announce to the world that you will report this to the FBI. Why is this reported to the FBI? I'm not very sure how much tax money is going to be used on investigating any of this.

You believe that this whole thread was created because of one player, but not the server and GM/Admin that legalized the selling of extra services? I have no clue how much more can you back up your stupidity. I posted three time in this thread before this one. First one- I stated that she did nothing wrong. It was her decision. RebirthRO is wrong to legalized it. Second one- Have nothing to do with the player. Just on how you chose to back up yourself, and represent your server. Third- Was to agree with another user that the apology would be worthless.

But no, why would you apologize for the decision you believe would be the best for RebirthRO. If you did not legalized this. The OP wouldn't post about it in RMS. The player selling her picture or whatever wouldn't be harassed by name calling. Guess what, it was your fault. You put your server and your players in this situation. You should have learn how to keep your mouth shut.

Do you think it's good for the entire server to know that you're selling your pictures for cash shop points? Do you believe that it is something that RebirthRO should be involved in? Why don't you answer my question about what happen if this so call transaction backfire? What can you do for them? What can you do now to protect them? What can you do now to protect her from the eyes of society? If you cannot do anything to protect her. Then do not tell us that we need to apologize to her before you would accept that you're wrong. You're the reason she was discussed on this thread.

[dontknowright]

There was an announcement on the topic originally, which stated that all forms of RMT for credits was legal, however, the service was aimed at trading for things in other games hence the name of the subforum. Then questions started popping up "can I sell ____?" "is ____ ok?" so a list was made to cover all conceivable questionable items. The question of firearms came up during the original discussion over whether or not discussion of adult services should be allowed on the forum. While the eventual decision was to disallow the discussion of adult service on the forum, the original posed question of "could we sell guns?" remained open. Again, we went with the law and allowed it (provided that people follow the law and use a licensed dealer for the trade). I threw in the drugs rulings because people in main asked.

===

Not really sure why this topic is still here, as the original point was that discussion in public was problematic due to children being able to find it easily. It took a bit to take that in because most of the original conversation was aimed at the girl who posted the topic: calling her names, questioning her morals, etc. All of which I feel is unfair. You offer no apology to her, so I offer none to you.

The original topic was removed, but we will not disallow something which is legal and causes no direct harm to the server or its players. We disallowed it in public to protect minors on the server, however, what adults do on their own is their business, not ours and certainly not yours.

If you have a problem with us allowing legal activity, talk to your elected politicians and have the laws changed. Barring that, you're on your own.

Seems like someone has a god complex.

Just because something is not illegal does not make it right.
There are two things required to make this judgement: a sense of responsibility, and some maturity.

A lack thereof has been demonstrated repeatedly by this person - a person who is running a service which attracts kids.

[RebirthOfficial]

This will be my final post in this thread.

Legalizing something that was already legal is pointless. We only explicitly stated it because we were asked if it was ok on several occasions. If your server or the server you play has no rule specifically against it, then guess what? It's allowed there too. When something is legal, it's allowed automatically. Rules do not say what is OK or what is LEGAL. They say what is NOT OK and what is ILLEGAL. Saying something is allowed is not the same as endorsing it. You can allow something without agreeing with it. You can disallow something while thinking it should be allowed.

Again, your problem is that someone doesn't agree with your OPINION. It is your OPINION that this type of service shouldn't exist. It is your OPINION we shouldn't allow it. It is your OPINION that it's is immoral. It is your OPINION that it's "bad."

It is our OPINION that all legal services should be allowed. When choosing to allow or disallow something that is OPINION, we follow the law. The law says it is ALLOWED so we ALLOW it.

Allowing this:
- DOES NOT harm children, as the service is NOT ALLOWED to be advertised in ANY public place, including: Forums, main chat, public chat.
- DOES NOT violate any applicable US law.
- DOES NOT require an 18+ warning as because of the first point.
- DOES NOT make us "bad guys"
- DOES promote freedom of expression, freedom of self, and freedom in general.

What does it do bad? Nothing. Nothing at all. You just think it's wrong and think EVERYONE should follow your point of view. The world is not as black and white as you want it to be. This is OPINION and NOT fact. I have a god complex? You're the one thinking your moral viewpoint outweighs all others. The reason there is no law against it is because people cannot agree, because that line is hard to draw. Get off your moral high horse, not everyone thinks the way you do. Not everyone has to think the way you do. That is the freedom we have, that's the freedom we express, and it is our right to do so, and do so we shall.

End of story.

[dontknowright]

Just because something is not illegal does not make it right.
There are two things required to make this judgement: a sense of responsibility, and some maturity.

This is not an opinion.

A lack thereof has been demonstrated repeatedly by this person - a person who is running a service which attracts kids.

Point proven.

I think it's perfectly clear now.
Moderator should lock this thread for good. Nothing else needs to be said.

[flyingheo]

@RebirthRO-

Really? There is no differences between announcing it is legal and having no rule against it? You believe that stating to the whole world that is it legal to take of their clothes for RebirthRO's Cash Shop Point, is alright? You believe that when you were typing that thread it was for the players? There are plenty of stupid kids that are willing to do anything for attention. My question is very easy, why do you need to announce to your entire server that it is legal? If what you're saying is true, then there is no need for you to announce it to start with. Since there was no rules against it.

Opinion: My opinion of you- I can use many colorful words to describe you. Like- you're an idiot. I have no clue how can you continue to back up your stupid mistake. Not to mention, I wonder where were you when God was passing out brains. But, since this is my own opinion of you. Therefore, I should not force you to believe that you're an idiot.

My opinion of the act itself is neutral. I do not care who is involved in the transaction. I do not need to know what is going on. If you ask me if it's bad or not, I do not care. However, as the representative of a server with more than a thousand players needs them to understand and acknowledge this service is legal. Isn't that you forcing your opinion on to us? Do we need to know? Do we want to know? Do we care about your opinion? IF you're stating that my opinion is bias. Then why is yours not? You continue to tell us that our opinion of this is bad. Tell me why it is good? Why is it good to announce that this service is legal? So more players will do it? To inform other players there are other services they can buy while playing RebirthRO? The act itself is not important. When a person believe it is a good idea to announce it is, then it's a problem.

You represent RebirthRO as a ROOT ADMIN. You should and will make the decision that is best for the server. You are one of the core that keeps RebirthRO alive. Yet, you believe that us as the players cannot judge you on the decision you choose to make for the server? You believe you did nothing wrong. Then why did you remove the post? Why don't you keep it? Announce to the world that I did nothing wrong. It's their fault to have bad bias opinion.

Learn from your mistakes.

[ggwp]

- DOES NOT harm children, as the service is NOT ALLOWED to be advertised in ANY public place, including: Forums, main chat, public chat.
- DOES NOT violate any applicable US law.
- DOES NOT require an 18+ warning as because of the first point.
- DOES NOT make us "bad guys"
- DOES promote freedom of expression, freedom of self, and freedom in general.

There is major flaw in there. This is internet where everyone can and may lie about themselves. You too dont know the real age of your player and transaction already done when they report to you in PM.

[Inochi]

I'm doing it for credits.

sis.... you need to love yourself.

[RebirthOfficial]

Alright, so after talking with someone on Skype about this I think I see why there seems to be so much of a problem here. So, I'll try to explain one last time and include an example.

First and most importantly: minors are not permitted to participate in any adult services. Not as a seller or a buyer.

Second: Any minor caught participating in adult services will be permanently banned. Any parties which knowingly participated will also be permanently banned.

Third: I know some (all?) of you assume that I allow the services because I agree with them in some way. Personally speaking, I think cybering is stupid, and paying for it completely moronic. For pictures, I don't really get paying for random nudes when there's tons of free porn out there. But, an old quote that doesn't completely apply here but I think gets the point across is (and I'm paraphrasing a bit here): I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend with my life your right to say it. While the practices themselves aren't my cup of tea, any adult has the right to do it if they wish. They are old enough to decide for themselves, and whether you want to admit it or not, this is an ethical dilemma with no right or wrong answer.

Fourth: The post was allowed after a very light hearted joke in main. I actually thought they were kidding too. But, they weren't. So then I was on the spot. We had said it was ok before, but no one ever asked to make a post about it. Not seeing anything wrong with it off if the top of my head I said sure. Threw down a few stipulations (18+ tag, content on a spoiler, etc) and said sure.

Then the complaints started. At first people were bashing on the girls and I didn't feel this was ok at all. Then the topic shifted more towards why the subject was allowed on a public forum. That led to a staff discussion at which time we decided to not allow those types of services to be allowed to be advertised on public. The post was removed, and I do apologize for that bit of short sightedness.

Finally: I want to throw a scenario at you. Let's say we have a guy named John, he's 20. John meets a girl named Jane. She seems really cool. She says she's from the same state as him and she's 19. The two hit it off and he starts getting a major crush on her. She's not really feeling it back and tries to brush it off. Soon John foolishly starts trying to buy her affection, giving her items, etc. One day he gives her a cash shop hat. Jane really likes it, and seeing an opportunity she tries to convince John to buy her the matching piece. John is a little tight on cash now, so he has to say no. Jane, really wanting that hat, decides to "make it with his money" by offering up some pictures. Since John is really into her he completely missed that he's being used and agrees.

So some time passes, and this happens a few more times. Then one day John starts talking to Mike. Turns out after her success with John, she did the same thing to Mike. John, a little unsure of what to do, decides to ask Jane's friend, Michelle, whom he doesn't know very well, what she thinks he should do...

Well Michelle is shocked to hear this. As Jane's real life friend she knows she's only 17. John is stunned.

So what now? Under the "it's all against the rules" that you all propose, John is stuck. If he reports Jane, he and his friend Mike will get punished too. His most likely course of action is to do nothing, hope it all blows over and he gets away with it.

But what about the current rules that say what is legal is allowed? Well, legally speaking, John didn't do anything wrong because he had no way of knowing Jane's age was a lie. The law protects him, so long as he ceases all activity. The rules protect him so long as he reports the violation to us. So, with no risk to him or his friend if he reports Jane and a large risk for not reporting her, he decides it's best to file a report.

So, with a ban on the activity it happens anyway. But, with it being legal we can find out about incidents that would have otherwise gone unreported. It's good for both people. John was protected from his own stupidity. And, since studies show a large percentage of girls doing what Jane did at that young of an age were sexually abused, it allows us to report something that may very well end up helping that girl out.

This is just one scenario. This could be flipped to where Jane was 20 and John was 17. There's too many variables. Personally, I'm not going to change this rule just because a few people think it's wrong for adults to sell services. I'm not risking a single report of a minor doing this not being filed because someone didn't want to draw attention to their activities. If you have a problem with that, don't play RRO. That is all.