Hi guys.
Its years since I played RO last time, just got back to check this and that out. Kinda liked ranger and RG on high rate before moving with friends to some mid-rate to spend some time there. I'm wondering how is Oboro doing in party MvP/party leveling (couldnt test it cuz it was bugged at the server i was playing).
Which classes would you recommend. I dont want to do any pvp or woe so what I want is just non time consuming fun class. Thats why I gave up idea of guillotine or genetic - poisons, equips, bombs.
Extended classes were always fun but well they were much weaker than trans. Are 2nd ext still much weaker than 3rds? Will lets say throwing oboro deal at least comparable dmg vs MVP as ranger/guillotine? What gear should it wear?
What else can do? RK seems weird since it looks like melee caster but maybe its fun? Maestro does not seem fun unless I can find another performer and none of my friends wants to play it. I do not like sorc somehow.
Thanks,
Nuriel
Depends what tier of MVP you're talking about.
Low-Mid Tier, any class can do any MVP in Renewal.
High Tier - Rune Knight, Genetic, Sura, Maestro and Arch Bishop are all you need to do any MVP as a group. I quit before Oboro's became a thing, but there's magic damage with the Charms and all that had some pretty ridiculous damage output.
Rune Knight is only needed for Ghost MVPs, DB is anything but melee and very op.
Genetic for high HP MVPs.
Maestro is a slave for Bragi, I always just had this duel cliented in ET and such
Sura is typical, but used for MS tanking. With the right set up you don't even need pots on the thing.
Arch Bishop, personally i find support classes fun to play and its a pretty easy job, you just need to be paying attention.
Thank you for your input Astraeos.
I'd prob go with AB but already 2 of my friends decided to go AB way so another would be just useless.
Maestro as bragi slave is quite obvious - noone needs to play it. Maybe there would be a point to actively play Maestro with at least one more in pt to use chorus skills.
Genetic requires bombs and I wont have enough time to farm it
But I think you may be true with RK. Could you post some leveling build 100-130/40/50 or whenever it'd be worth to switch to DB?
Also still interested in opinions about oboro and his gear/stats/builds and how he runs compared to other classes.
What Astreos said is for 150-160 skill patch renewal. In 175 skill patch NOTHING beats Ranger with Unlimit on PvM / MvP (to the point experienced Ranger can solo WM / VR / Beelz / Ifrit in duration of one Unlimit buff). Self-buffed Ranger with +8 Giant Crossbow and +9 WW suit deals 150-200k normal AS to MvP and 450-600k AS with Unlimit buff. Fully-buffed Ranger (Striking , Windmill Rush Attack , Distorted Crescent Moon , Odin Power , Weapon Perfection) could easily deal 600-800k AS with Unlimit.
Dark Crow (GX 175 skill that amplifies meele pshysical hit in few seconds so timing is important) and Lexed Ashura is good too if you do it with 3 people. This could easily reach 3-4m on DC+Lex ed Ashura and 1m on Lexed Ashura. Good for doing Bio 3/4 MvP as long they have direct warp to MvP level. Doing instant last 3m damage means you can skip that annoying 30% HP summon another 5-6 mini boss phase.
RK = good PvM , good MvP , great PvP
RG = good PvM , good MvP , good PvP
AB = your support class , sacrament is mandatory buff
Shura = weak PvM , great MvP , great PvP
Ranger = OP PvM , OP MvP , weak PvP
Minstrel / Wanderer = support
Warlock = good PvM , dont try MvP , weak PvP
Sorc = good PvM , good MVP , good PvP
GX = good PvM , weak MvP , good PvP
SC = weak PvM , weak MvP , great PvP
Genetic = time consuming PvM , good MvP , great PvP
Mechanic = weak PvM , weak MvP , great PvP
Kage / Obo = good PvM , weak MvP , great PvP
Rebellion = good PvM , weak MvP , feeder PVP
Quote from: ggwp on Dec 03, 2014, 09:12 PM
What Astreos said is for 150-160 skill patch renewal. In 175 skill patch NOTHING beats Ranger with Unlimit on PvM / MvP (to the point experienced Ranger can solo WM / VR / Beelz / Ifrit in duration of one Unlimit buff). Self-buffed Ranger with +8 Giant Crossbow and +9 WW suit deals 150-200k normal AS to MvP and 450-600k AS with Unlimit buff. Fully-buffed Ranger (Striking , Windmill Rush Attack , Distorted Crescent Moon , Odin Power , Weapon Perfection) could easily deal 600-800k AS with Unlimit.
LOL wtf, I quit when Rangers were doing 35k, 193 aspd warg strikes. Now this. Redunkulous.
Quote from: Nuriel on Dec 03, 2014, 11:28 AM
But I think you may be true with RK. Could you post some leveling build 100-130/40/50 or whenever it'd be worth to switch to DB?
Also still interested in opinions about oboro and his gear/stats/builds and how he runs compared to other classes.
Just realize that Oboro and Kagerou have a couple different skills based on the gender of the account. I don't remember which is better at what. ggwp would probably know better then I would with that.
For RK, I spiral pierce leveled (before Gloomy nerf) until I had DB10 then immediately went to Scaraba. Again, I'm not too sure what's going to be best option for this. There may have been more recent patches with better places to level, but Scaraba has always been simple to do on a RK.
Rune Knight is possibly one of the most versatile classes in the game, looking at them as nothing more than DB casters is severely limiting. Ignition Break was beefed up in the rebalancing patch (along with the "Gloomy Nerf"), and chaining it with Bowling Bash easily outclasses Dragon Breath in terms of DPS. Not to mention it's not forced element like DB. I would highly recommend taking your pick on one of those Mora sets (Ur for spear/HP/reducs, Peuz for two-handed sword/DPS) and experiment your own builds around them. Ignition Break chains well with both Hundred Spear (with Ur set, heavier burst damage) and Sonic Wave (with Peuz set, faster DPS). Nobody plays exactly the same way, so it's always best to make a build that is very much your own.
Royal Guard is pretty darned good too, but kinda suffers in the AOE DPS area compared to RKs, as their primary Overbrand has a 2-second after-cast delay (and not just cooldown) and is interruptable (so you need a Phen). Otherwise, they do pretty well in both solo and party situations, but don't expect the same damage output you'd do on a Rune Knight. Needless to say, defense and survivability is way better.
And like everyone else says, Ranger is OP as hell, but you're used to playing melee classes (like I am), you might have a hard time keeping your distance with it. They're squishy as heck. x.x
Thanks for your answers guys.
I like rangers but spamming AS is kinda boring in the long run and its probably only good build for PvM/MvP outside auto-warg strike (which does not use any skills :P)
You make me think more and more about RK. Could you post rough stat distribution and weapon of choice for IB build with spear? Somehow I dont really like BB.
High INT,
High VIT,
High Dex,
Decent AGI. I was working with 180+ aspd almost all the time and pretty fast cast.
This video might help show how RKs are used in ET, and provide you an example of if you'd like playing the class, you don't need these items to be effective the set up is enough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1whGj7I_QuM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1whGj7I_QuM)
Quote from: ggwp on Dec 03, 2014, 09:12 PM
What Astreos said is for 150-160 skill patch renewal. In 175 skill patch NOTHING beats Ranger with Unlimit on PvM / MvP (to the point experienced Ranger can solo WM / VR / Beelz / Ifrit in duration of one Unlimit buff). Self-buffed Ranger with +8 Giant Crossbow and +9 WW suit deals 150-200k normal AS to MvP and 450-600k AS with Unlimit buff. Fully-buffed Ranger (Striking , Windmill Rush Attack , Distorted Crescent Moon , Odin Power , Weapon Perfection) could easily deal 600-800k AS with Unlimit.
Dark Crow (GX 175 skill that amplifies meele pshysical hit in few seconds so timing is important) and Lexed Ashura is good too if you do it with 3 people. This could easily reach 3-4m on DC+Lex ed Ashura and 1m on Lexed Ashura. Good for doing Bio 3/4 MvP as long they have direct warp to MvP level. Doing instant last 3m damage means you can skip that annoying 30% HP summon another 5-6 mini boss phase.
RK = good PvM , good MvP , great PvP
RG = good PvM , good MvP , good PvP
AB = your support class , sacrament is mandatory buff
Shura = weak PvM , great MvP , great PvP
Ranger = OP PvM , OP MvP , weak PvP
Minstrel / Wanderer = support
Warlock = good PvM , dont try MvP , weak PvP
Sorc = good PvM , good MVP , good PvP
GX = good PvM , weak MvP , good PvP
SC = weak PvM , weak MvP , great PvP
Genetic = time consuming PvM , good MvP , great PvP
Mechanic = weak PvM , weak MvP , great PvP
Kage / Obo = good PvM , weak MvP , great PvP
Rebellion = good PvM , weak MvP , feeder PVP
Mostly agree with you, but some things are pretty damn wrong.
I want to correct a few things here:
RK = good PvM , good MvP , great PvP
RG = good PvM , good MvP , good PvP
AB = your support class , sacrament is mandatory buff
(With Mora gear can easily deal with any undead/shadow mvp)Shura = weak PvM , great MvP , great PvP
Ranger = OP PvM , OP MvP , weak PvP
Minstrel / Wanderer = support
(Can easily level in PVE and is a great PVP disruptor, too.) Good PvE, Weak MVP, Good PvPWarlock = good PvM , dont try MvP ,
great PvP (Weak in PVP? I guess you never played against a good Warlock... SW, WI, Telekinesis, together with +3 cast range and Sunlight Box, gl winning. Got Ice Wall for anti-targeting too. Can be REALLY cheap if played right. WI has a 90% success chance. Telekinesis + WI means you lose. Always.)Sorc = good PvM ,
decent MVP ,
great PvP (Sorcs are not great in MVPing, maybe low tier ones. You probably meant their supporting/spawning role? Also theyre ridic strong in PvP if played properly. Gear scales also extremely well on them and having insta cast on most skills can f*** you up. Ever saw a decent sorc working with insignias? ;D)GX = good PvM ,
Strong MvP , Great PvP (Clearly you never saw a Mvping GX soloing Beelze with 0 effort. Since rA fixed their skills theyre really strong in PvP now, because people dont ever farm Argiope Card. Venom Impress is cheap. Their OP weapon (GX katar) can be easily pve farmed. Try crit builds. :D)SC = weak PvM , weak MvP , great PvP
Genetic =
Good PvE ,
Great MvP , great PvP
(Nothing time consuming about using cart cannon lol. Stupidly strong skill. AD with its proper formula now is just silly if you play it right. Also Sacra halves it cast time flat. get some Delay reduction and you can spam AD insanely fast easily equaling the DPS of Unlimited AS. Needs better gears than a simple WWS for sure, has less range, but equal power)Mechanic =
Decent PvM , weak MvP , great PvP
(With the 175 skill, they can actually cheese level all the way to 175.)Kage / Obo = good PvM , weak MvP , great PvP
Rebellion = good PvM ,
good MvP , feeder PVP (Slugshot lel)
Quote from: Nuriel on Dec 07, 2014, 02:45 AM
Thanks for your answers guys.
I like rangers but spamming AS is kinda boring in the long run and its probably only good build for PvM/MvP outside auto-warg strike (which does not use any skills :P)
You make me think more and more about RK. Could you post rough stat distribution and weapon of choice for IB build with spear? Somehow I dont really like BB.
Bowling Bash is, well, you're best leveling skill until you get Ignition Break, and by then, chaining them together (BB->IB->repeat; since IB has a 2-second cooldown) is very effective as well. You'll do well with anything with high
base attack (yes, base, not +bonus atk; I'll explain later), which is provided by most two-handed swords and spears. If you like Parrying, Alca Bringer are ideal, due to its 280 base atk, but if you prefer having a shield for reducs, go with the highest atk spear you can find (Hunting Spear for example).
As for why you want
base attack--the way stats affect damage in renewal has some interesting bits you should keep in mind:
• For melee weapons, you get +1
status attack every 1 STR, 5 DEX, 3 LUK, and 4 base levels.
• For ranged weapons, you get +1
status attack every 1 DEX, 5 STR, 3 LUK, and 4 base levels.
• For mages, you get +1
status magic attack every 1 INT, 5 DEX, 3 LUK, and 4 base levels.
^ This is basic, most people already know this, and you probably already do, but for the heck of it, I included it anyway.
Now for the interesting part:
• Bows, guns, instruments and whips,
spears and
two-handed swords get a +0.5% base weapon attack bonus for every point of
DEX.
• Every other weapon type gets a +0.5% base weapon attack bonus for every point of
STR.
• If the weapon has a magic attack part, it gets a 0.5% base magic attack bonus for every point of
INT.
This means, the higher your weapon's base attack is, the more you get out of the stat. For a Rune Knight, whose primary weapons are spears and two-handed swords, DEX enhances your weapon damage, while STR boosts your status attack. Which is why it's more ideal to have 90~ on both STR and DEX, rather than max one out and leave the other.
If you decide to go spears and use the Ur set, I'd suggest going for the VIT/INT Astraeos recommends, and drop the AGI completely (it's not gonna do you anything--your aspd is gonna suck either way, might as well spend it on VIT/INT). You can double with Hundred Spears/Ignition Break chain at melee range, and as Dragon Breath caster at long range. It's generally a very effective and flexible build. If you're playing in a 175/60 server, it should be easy to reach 100~ STR and DEX, and both INT and VIT at 110+ (or vice versa). This generally has a better survivability due to Ur set having neutral reductions and HP boosts.
If you decide to go two-handed sword and use the [generally ignored] Peuz set, I'd recommend getting a substantial amount of AGI and LUK, along with enough VIT and INT for status resist. This build excels in physical DPS and chains Sonic Wave/Ignition Break, has a generally faster damage output due to two-handed swords having much higher base ATK than spears, and can also utilize Dragon Breath, which of course will be slightly weaker than the spear build due to lower health. Also note that Sonic Wave has a 9-cell range, so when fighting enemies you can't tank, you can go hit and run "Ranger mode." Overall a more versatile build, but also more risky (and fun). If you're playing in a 175/60 server, it's possible to hit 90+ on all STR, DEX, AGI, 100 total on both VIT and INT (for status resist) and 80~ luck. In addition, with a Two-hand Quicken, Berserk Potion, Asir rune, Full Throttle, and (optional) stat foods, you can easily hit max aspd, without wasting too much status points on AGI, all while having enough crit to screw things around.
Feel free to tweak around, mess around, and experiment on the build yourselves, that's always the best way to find the best one that works for you. ;)
QuoteWarlock = good PvM , dont try MvP , great PvP (Weak in PVP? I guess you never played against a good Warlock... SW, WI, Telekinesis, together with +3 cast range and Sunlight Box, gl winning. Got Ice Wall for anti-targeting too. Can be REALLY cheap if played right. WI has a 90% success chance. Telekinesis + WI means you lose. Always.)
I guess you never played against people with brain. Magic damage is a JOKE in 175/60 server where you can use WoE set and Dark Rosary. 60% demi reduce and 60 mdef (around 40% reduction in renewal) means even amplied Tetra Vortex with empowered mora sets wont kill people. Ice Wall trick is easily countered by shift+clicking the WL.
QuoteSorc = good PvM , decent MVP , great PvP (Sorcs are not great in MVPing, maybe low tier ones. You probably meant their supporting/spawning role? Also theyre ridic strong in PvP if played properly. Gear scales also extremely well on them and having insta cast on most skills can f*** you up. Ever saw a decent sorc working with insignias?
Their support skill is good thats why they good on party MvPing. While in PvP they only kill baddies because magic damage is a JOKE or they ended up just supporting other party member.
QuoteGX = good PvM , Strong MvP , Great PvP (Clearly you never saw a Mvping GX soloing Beelze with 0 effort. Since rA fixed their skills theyre really strong in PvP now, because people dont ever farm Argiope Card. Venom Impress is cheap. Their OP weapon (GX katar) can be easily pve farmed. Try crit builds. )
The fact they have to get Poison bottle just to be on par with other MvP classes already give huge minus point. 0 Effort when doing Beelze is atleast 4x hunterfly DB RK with bard slave or that Ranger easy warg never get hit kiting cheese. They dont farm Argiope card because people with brain will just use Evil Druid and smart GX will use converter instead showing in their opponent face they use poison element. They use 2 handed weapon while other top tier pvp class use shield while dishing equal damage. No shield means 30% reduce vs 60% reduce (or more if your server have those mid/low reduce gear). Only brainless player dies to crit build GX.
QuoteGenetic = Good PvE , Great MvP , great PvP (Nothing time consuming about using cart cannon lol. Stupidly strong skill. AD with its proper formula now is just silly if you play it right. Also Sacra halves it cast time flat. get some Delay reduction and you can spam AD insanely fast easily equaling the DPS of Unlimited AS. Needs better gears than a simple WWS for sure, has less range, but equal power)
Cart Cannon is strong IF you follow those iRO / pRO "everyone have to use godly gear or become trash" guide. With normal private server and normal gears CC only do 10-20k damage which only good on monster below 130. But because Cart Cannon have weird damage formula (Int increase damage) you need to raise Str , Int , Dex , Vit which means when you already have good stats the skills are not that good anymore.
10x Homunculus rates tooks approx 15 hour to reach loyal or 6 days if the server have 1x homun rates and another few hours to train that homunculus to max , way more if its Amistr -> Eira PvP homun. If this aint "time-consuming" yet , add farming mats to make bottle and other things (say hello to those stupidly time wasting Prickly Fruit farming BS).
QuoteIf you like Parrying, Alca Bringer are ideal, due to its 280 base atk
Violet Fear > Tegron / Tae Goo Lyeon > Krasnaya > Death Guidance > Alca Bringer due to slots are important too.
But still Tegron +9 effect can beat +9 Violet in term of DPS especially with how easy you can do Sealed Shrine in renewal.
Quote from: ggwp on Dec 09, 2014, 04:50 AM
Violet Fear > Tegron / Tae Goo Lyeon > Krasnaya > Death Guidance > Alca Bringer due to slots are important too.
But still Tegron +9 effect can beat +9 Violet in term of DPS especially with how easy you can do Sealed Shrine in renewal.
Yep, VF is ideal, but it's not exactly easy to get, so Alca does the trick. Krasnaya is also pretty good, but it's lackluster due to being weapon level 2, it hits its peak early, and you'll replace it quickly anyway. Alcabringer is pretty much all-rounder, and given its ASPD bonus and high base ATK, it's an ideal weapon to go along with your specialized gear, as a middle-ground weapon. I'd have to agree with Death Guidance though. That +20 pdodge and 2 slots makes it ideal for solo MVPing (obviously with 2 AK cards). Works wonders with Parrying. And there's Bloody Eater (ideally with two Mao Guai cards) vs ghosts.
Quote• Bows, guns, instruments and whips, spears and two-handed swords get a +0.5% base weapon attack bonus for every point of DEX.
Wrong, has been long fixed. Spears and Swords pull from STR as much as other melee class weapons.
@ggwp
Erm Magic Damage is a joke? xD Just cuz people can stack some easy 80 Hard mdef? Physical damage is a joke too, because people can stack 300 Hard Def too. Infact in WoE not even Asura or Combo can One shot me. Unless they run around with MvP Cards. 60 MDEF is 35%~ at most. No Warlock will bother getting tetra on you, unless they are trash. But as i said, you prolly never fought a decent one. In my post i also never MENTIONED tetra at all, so iunno why you name it.
Sorc, as mentioned above. Remember that magic classes have access to Vellum and BG weapons as much as Melee ones have. My Spellfist on a crystallized target deals, including siege set, 23k per hit times 5 :). Crystalizzed means no form of counter attacking or potting, you cant even butterfly yo. But Sorcs huge power doesnt come from their Damage my friend. It comes from the insane utility they bring to every defense line.
Now about Gx...youre missing the point. Also you probably never used mind games on opponents, which high end pvp is all about... If a GX used venom impress on you, who exactly tells you hes 100% using Poison? If you use ED and he uses fire ure fcked. EDPs are so easy to get now, i dont consider it a requirement. Invest a few and u got hundreds. Ever heard of gear switching? While running like a chicken no one forces you to stay on the katar l0l. Crit build is a PVE vuild bro. If you need proof how on kRO you can easily deal 100k crit dmg, well.... Its an expensive build but it works on most Mid rates and even some low rates, due how easy it is to access content thanks to warper. You probably never heard of temporal boots. Again, dont let inexperience cloud your judgement.
I lvl'd with CC till scaraba, dealing easy 30k a pop, with just fire endow from a sage and avg. gear. The skill formula is nice because it works great with ADs formula. Youre not wasting many points on it and its highly spammable with the right gears.
And at the end, i want to say that you can have alca bringer with 2 slots.. Making your "theyre all better due to slots" argument silly. (Item ID: 21004) I generally agree that imho TGL is the best 2hand to keep at high refine. The delay and cast is just 2 good.
just my 3 cents. I gave my opinion, no ones forces u to agree with it. :)
Quote from: inzanity on Dec 09, 2014, 08:28 AM
Wrong, has been long fixed. Spears and Swords pull from STR as much as other melee class weapons.
Oh was it? Funny I never noticed, as I always have STR/DEX at around equal amounts.
Quote from: inzanity on Dec 09, 2014, 08:28 AM
Erm Magic Damage is a joke? xD Just cuz people can stack some easy 80 Hard mdef? Physical damage is a joke too, because people can stack 300 Hard Def too. Infact in WoE not even Asura or Combo can One shot me. Unless they run around with MvP Cards. 60 MDEF is 35%~ at most. No Warlock will bother getting tetra on you, unless they are trash. But as i said, you prolly never fought a decent one. In my post i also never MENTIONED tetra at all, so iunno why you name it.
"The strongest skill" dilemma I guess. Tetra is hardly a threat unless you're COMPLETELY OPEN (which would be hilarious), it's always the combinations of the other spells to watch out for. Warlock isn't a first-attack-one-hit-wonder class. They play tricks on you, and once they get you to bite, it's over.
Quote from: inzanity on Dec 09, 2014, 08:28 AM
I lvl'd with CC till scaraba, dealing easy 30k a pop, with just fire endow from a sage and avg. gear. The skill formula is nice because it works great with ADs formula. Youre not wasting many points on it and its highly spammable with the right gears.
Exactly.
Quote from: inzanity on Dec 09, 2014, 08:28 AM
And at the end, i want to say that you can have alca bringer with 2 slots.. Making your "theyre all better due to slots" argument silly. (Item ID: 21004) I generally agree that imho TGL is the best 2hand to keep at high refine. The delay and cast is just 2 good.
iirc the 2-slot alcabringer loses the attack speed refine bonus, and since it's still a level 3 weapon, VF and Tegron outclass it anyway. Still pretty decent though, given its massive base atk.
^
It was always like this. But rAs code was screwed.
TV isnt the strgonest skill.
It dosnt loose its bonus. stop using RMS for refence, its outdated and 90% misleading for anything past 14.1
Quote from: inzanity on Dec 09, 2014, 08:28 AM
And at the end, i want to say that you can have alca bringer with 2 slots.. Making your "theyre all better due to slots" argument silly. (Item ID: 21004) I generally agree that imho TGL is the best 2hand to keep at high refine. The delay and cast is just 2 good.
Quote from: Yozakura on Dec 09, 2014, 11:28 AM
iirc the 2-slot alcabringer loses the attack speed refine bonus, and since it's still a level 3 weapon, VF and Tegron outclass it anyway. Still pretty decent though, given its massive base atk.
wait, so it's possible to get a 2-slotted alca bringer after all? i know it's there at the item database, but didn't think one could get it aside from spawning it via GM commands. mind filling me in the details? and yes, i did google it, but it yields me no actual result.
Unless you're using RK with TGK you wont survive taking damage from ashura of a self-buffed shura with +8 Vellum Claw , while any magic damage (even things like amplied TV) is pottable just by using woe white pot / giggling box. Server where WL is great on PvP would be that dumb high rate MvP card (hurr durr WL with FBH , Gioia , Naght Sieger , 2 Elvira is killing people) server or the usual all trash player renewal.
Remember those vellum and kvm weapon are two handed (inb4 every 2 handed player would insta swap weapon every time they finish attack BS). That dumb spell fist sorc wont work on people with brain. They knew they can swap same gears with -xx SP every time unequipped to reach 0 sp and cancel the crystalization before you can finish preparation to do "23k per hit damage spell fist" .
Swapping katar and shield reset your weapon element and you cant enchant poison while cloacking (but you can use endow scroll) , thats why venom impress useless in decent pvp and wont work as mind games. The real mind games is guessing what element each player had (neutral , undead or holy). You wont need to do anymore pve except farming mats with the time it takes to collect 60 clotted spell to get rare enchant time boots. And guess what ? most renewal server out there dont have 100% working old GH memorial dungeon (and the usual unfinished eclage patch + new skill + rebellion at most).
We are talking about renewal private server in general , not current kRO renewal. Dont let emotion cloud your judgement
Quote from: inzanity on Dec 09, 2014, 08:28 AM
Wrong, has been long fixed. Spears and Swords pull from STR as much as other melee class weapons.
Quote from: inzanity on Dec 09, 2014, 04:32 PM
It was always like this. But rAs code was screwed.
Long been fixed, then always like this. OK.
Quote from: inzanity on Dec 09, 2014, 04:32 PM
TV isnt the strgonest skill.
It obviously is not, when it comes to practical use. You know how players tend to look at the biggest number formula skills, and assume it's a one-hit KO skill. That's the "strongest skill dilemma." Was Wizard ever a one-hit wonder class? Besides amplified Jupitel Thunder vs Frozen target, no, never. So why expect warlocks to be one-hit wonders? You know Warlocks need a lot of intelligence, right? Yeah, exactly, and so does the player. Can't afford to be dumb.
Quote from: inzanity on Dec 09, 2014, 04:32 PM
It dosnt loose its bonus. stop using RMS for refence, its outdated and 90% misleading for anything past 14.1
What kind of renewal player still uses RMS (which is basically a pre-re player haven) as reference?
Pulled out of rAthena, no bonus script, as you can see.
21004,Alca_Bringer_,Alca Bringer,5,20,,3400,280,,2,2,0x00004082,63,2,34,3,100,1,3,{},{},{}Here's the unslotted Alcabringer:
1191,Alca_Bringer,Alca Bringer,5,20,,3400,280,,2,0,0x00004082,63,2,34,3,100,1,3,{ bonus bAspd,(getrefine()/2); },{},{}Been like that for ages. Are you telling me they just never bothered fixing over 2~3 years of updates?
Quote from: ggwp on Dec 10, 2014, 08:35 AM
Unless you're using RK with TGK you wont survive taking damage from ashura of a self-buffed shura with +8 Vellum Claw , while any magic damage (even things like amplied TV) is pottable just by using woe white pot / giggling box. Server where WL is great on PvP would be that dumb high rate MvP card (hurr durr WL with FBH , Gioia , Naght Sieger , 2 Elvira is killing people) server or the usual all trash player renewal.
That's what Millennium Shield is for, against skills you can't survive. They're called killing skills for a reason--they're meant to take you down. Stop trying to absorb them, and learn how to time that block.
Quote from: ggwp on Dec 10, 2014, 08:35 AM
Swapping katar and shield reset your weapon element and you cant enchant poison while cloacking (but you can use endow scroll) , thats why venom impress useless in decent pvp and wont work as mind games. The real mind games is guessing what element each player had (neutral , undead or holy). You wont need to do anymore pve except farming mats with the time it takes to collect 60 clotted spell to get rare enchant time boots. And guess what ? most renewal server out there dont have 100% working old GH memorial dungeon (and the usual unfinished eclage patch + new skill + rebellion at most).
GX uses Enchant Poison, then Venom Impress on his target. "Smart" opponent assumes this is a trap to make him use Druid armor, and GX's intention is to use a fire-converter while he's cloaked. Opponent anticipates this, and to counter, he swaps to fire armor instead. GX is aware of this, and does not use a fire converter, and instead keeps poison element, and does damage. Poison deals 125% damage vs fire, in addition to Venom Impress's +50% total damage bonus. That stacks up to 187.5% damage, outclasses water's 150% damage.
Holy armor you say? Assuming the target has an angeling card. Not everyone has that. And if it turns out that he does, you can tell easily with the first hit, now back off and plan your next attack. Chances are, this player thinks you're about to pop a Cursed Water, and switch to undead armor, and you can use a fire converter instead.
Oh yeah, has anyone mentioned Dark Crow yet?
Mind games. It's all about playing your cards right, no matter how useless players think they are. In fact, it's more hilarious defeating them with "useless" stuff, don't you think?
It's all about anticipation. The player who can anticipate one step further into the opponent's tactics, wins.
Quote from: ggwp on Dec 10, 2014, 08:35 AM
Remember those vellum and kvm weapon are two handed (inb4 every 2 handed player would insta swap weapon every time they finish attack BS). That dumb spell fist sorc wont work on people with brain. They knew they can swap same gears with -xx SP every time unequipped to reach 0 sp and cancel the crystalization before you can finish preparation to do "23k per hit damage spell fist" .
Besides Giant Spear (and its glorious 2k weight) and MVP Katrinn card, most other "drain" items like that take out tiny amounts, good luck getting rid of 2k++ SP before you're destroyed.
First off, huge probs to Yozakura. This guy definitely understood the principle of mindgames. Kudos to you!
Now what imeant with "always like this" is actually something not many people know. So as a little reward ill fill you in.
As you already know RMS is outdated as fck. But so is rAthena. rAthenas code and DB is known to be clusterfck as hell.
First, to give you a few proof points. rAthenas code had Spear+2Hand swords dmg increase by DEX because in rAs code >3 cell range was considered ranged. That means spears were considered ranged, and thus get the boon from dex. HOWEVER, ofc every "clever" ;) person would question that, knowing that spears and weapons with 3 cell range are still melee. iRO wiki has this actually written down in the correct form:
Spoiler
STR
Strength: This stat affects the "melee" physical power of the character, allowing it to deal damage even if no weapons are equipped if a sufficient amount of STR is invested. The STR value is also multiplied to the Weapon ATK value for even more damage increase.
When using "melee-type" weapons such as Axes, Books, Daggers, Katars, Knuckles, Maces, Spears or when Bare Handed, every point of STR provides:
Status ATK +1
Weapon ATK +0.5% (only on Base Weapon ATK, and this bonus is pseudo-elemental)
When using "ranged-type" weapons such as Bows, Guns, Instruments and Whips, every 5 points of STR provide:
Status ATK +1
DEX
Clockimportant.png This article or section needs to be updated.
Dexterity: This stat affects the accuracy (HIT) of the character in many aspects, allowing it to land hits easier, among other things. It is also the primary stat for "ranged" physical power, and the primary stat for decreasing cast time.
When using "ranged-type" weapons such as Bows, Guns, Instruments and Whips, every point of DEX provides:
Status ATK +1
Weapon ATK +0.5% (only on Base Weapon ATK, and this bonus is pseudo-elemental)
When using "melee-type" weapons such as Axes, Books, Daggers, Katars, Knuckles, Maces, Spears or when Bare Handed, every 5 points of DEX provide:
Status ATK +1
Aswell as, from rAthena Github itself...
https://github.com/rathena/rathena/issues/129 (https://github.com/rathena/rathena/issues/129)
You can see that only roughly 2 weeks ago, rAthena was using a false code. :) So technically, yes, "it has always been like that". But smart/decent Server admins fixed it, but only recently it was made public. Every server owner that isnt trash, should implement their own fixes and source edits. You want an edge over other servers right? why make bug fixes public (a****** move i know), when you can keep them to urself advertise with a bug free and more stable server. ;)
So much about the Spear incident, i hope.
Now to get back to the Alca Bringer, and icant believe im still on this... Again, do not take rA DB as final - always right - product. Nanakiwutz is (im sorry but its true) often half assing adding items to the DB, alot of unfinished scripts or missing all together. If you want a real ALMOST ALWAYS accurate info from items, DIRECTLY DATA MINED, then please use divine-pride! :)
http://divine-pride.net/database/item/21004/unknown-item-21004-2 (http://divine-pride.net/database/item/21004/unknown-item-21004-2)
You can see, in the official KRO description it says it keeps it refine bonuses aswell as it 2 slots. And quite frankly, lets be honest, it would be extremly dumb and new to this game, to remove weapon effects after slotting them, right? You can thank me later for this prope DB. ;)
---
I wont reply to ggwp's post, you got your opinion and experience. I wont meddle with that. Neither am i clouded by emotions. Its a matter of fact my Renewal rathena and official biography is a tad longer than yours. Thats all i have to say. Thanks again for Yozakura for being with me here on some of your points.
Just one thing, it doesnt take god/mvp gear for me to tank one shot- skills. If the opposition is using them, yes you need them. If they dont, neither do you.
See'ya
Quote from: inzanity on Dec 11, 2014, 02:23 AM
First off, huge probs to Yozakura. This guy definitely understood the principle of mindgames. Kudos to you!
I wont reply to ggwp's post, you got your opinion and experience. I wont meddle with that. Neither am i clouded by emotions. Its a matter of fact my Renewal rathena and official biography is a tad longer than yours. Thats all i have to say. Thanks again for Yozakura for being with me here on some of your points.
Just one thing, it doesnt take god/mvp gear for me to tank one shot- skills. If the opposition is using them, yes you need them. If they dont, neither do you.
See'ya
Thanks. It's like playing chess, you know? It's so basic. Just because this player is opening with _________ doesn't mean that's what he intends to do, in fact he can be leading you into preparing countermeasures for it, and he likely has powerful countermeasures for that himself. If he's two steps ahead of you, good luck winning.
Quote from: inzanity on Dec 11, 2014, 02:23 AM
Now what imeant with "always like this" is actually something not many people know. So as a little reward ill fill you in.
As you already know RMS is outdated as fck. But so is rAthena. rAthenas code and DB is known to be clusterfck as hell.
First, to give you a few proof points. rAthenas code had Spear+2Hand swords dmg increase by DEX because in rAs code >3 cell range was considered ranged. That means spears were considered ranged, and thus get the boon from dex. HOWEVER, ofc every "clever" ;) person would question that, knowing that spears and weapons with 3 cell range are still melee. iRO wiki has this actually written down in the correct form:
Spoiler
STR
Strength: This stat affects the "melee" physical power of the character, allowing it to deal damage even if no weapons are equipped if a sufficient amount of STR is invested. The STR value is also multiplied to the Weapon ATK value for even more damage increase.
When using "melee-type" weapons such as Axes, Books, Daggers, Katars, Knuckles, Maces, Spears or when Bare Handed, every point of STR provides:
Status ATK +1
Weapon ATK +0.5% (only on Base Weapon ATK, and this bonus is pseudo-elemental)
When using "ranged-type" weapons such as Bows, Guns, Instruments and Whips, every 5 points of STR provide:
Status ATK +1
DEX
Clockimportant.png This article or section needs to be updated.
Dexterity: This stat affects the accuracy (HIT) of the character in many aspects, allowing it to land hits easier, among other things. It is also the primary stat for "ranged" physical power, and the primary stat for decreasing cast time.
When using "ranged-type" weapons such as Bows, Guns, Instruments and Whips, every point of DEX provides:
Status ATK +1
Weapon ATK +0.5% (only on Base Weapon ATK, and this bonus is pseudo-elemental)
When using "melee-type" weapons such as Axes, Books, Daggers, Katars, Knuckles, Maces, Spears or when Bare Handed, every 5 points of DEX provide:
Status ATK +1
Aswell as, from rAthena Github itself...
https://github.com/rathena/rathena/issues/129 (https://github.com/rathena/rathena/issues/129)
You can see that only roughly 2 weeks ago, rAthena was using a false code. :) So technically, yes, "it has always been like that". But smart/decent Server admins fixed it, but only recently it was made public. Every server owner that isnt trash, should implement their own fixes and source edits. You want an edge over other servers right? why make bug fixes public (a****** move i know), when you can keep them to urself advertise with a bug free and more stable server. ;)
So much about the Spear incident, i hope.
Now to get back to the Alca Bringer, and icant believe im still on this... Again, do not take rA DB as final - always right - product. Nanakiwutz is (im sorry but its true) often half assing adding items to the DB, alot of unfinished scripts or missing all together. If you want a real ALMOST ALWAYS accurate info from items, DIRECTLY DATA MINED, then please use divine-pride! :)
http://divine-pride.net/database/item/21004/unknown-item-21004-2 (http://divine-pride.net/database/item/21004/unknown-item-21004-2)
You can see, in the official KRO description it says it keeps it refine bonuses aswell as it 2 slots. And quite frankly, lets be honest, it would be extremly dumb and new to this game, to remove weapon effects after slotting them, right? You can thank me later for this prope DB. ;)
---
Good to know. As for the DEX thing, I guess I didn't bother enough coz it was "the same to me." If ever it's fixed to strength, well, it hardly matters, because like I said, they're both important stats regardless, and at the end of the day, it's "the same to me." xD
As for the database, yeah, I guess you're right. However, there are things that have
halved bonuses when they're slotted, like the
vintage slotted Rings, Gloves, Necklaces, Earrings, Rosaries and Brooches. There's also the middle headgear Black Devil Mask. All of them normally give +2 on stats, and this drops to +1 when they're slotted. I sort of inferred that the "effect" we keep on the Alcabringer is its ungodly ATK, which is darned good on its own, in addition to the two slots.
Warlock do able to 1 hit people before Hall of Abyss patch with (amplified for someone with brain that use cold proof potion , valk shield , 2 water drop brooch and nyd garb) TV using empowered Aqua sets because old Dragon Breath force people to use Lucius[Marc]
Not everyone have Millenium Shield , sharing it would need newest skill patch Lux Anima rune with 3 Gold as ingredients. I just said RK just for comparison because if RK have the most HP still die to damage from Vellum Claw G-fist , every other job will die too.
Read the sentence before the bolded part /ok Why would you need to afraid fire damage on undead armor ? Valk Shield + Fireproof potion (and add another -20% resist from undead scroll on some dumb server with dark wing on hat maker) is 40% fire reduce so 150% x 60% = 90%. The target could have Piety (or holy scroll on some dumb server with white wing on hatmaker) instead if you going to say GX use aspersio. This is what I meant with "neutral / undead / holy armor guessing game"
Get 2 four slotted weapons. Put 4 weapon card that have -50 sp when unequpped on there (like red ferus). Put the weapon on F7/F8 slot and activate /q2. Scroll your mouse when getting crystalized until sp reach 0. Use some sp item. Kill the dumb Sorc.
Knowing 1-2 steps ahead doesnt work when your opponent knows everything /ho
Time to retired from RO as christmas present for everyone so other people can have a chance competing Renewal server without me /heh
Quote from: ggwp on Dec 27, 2014, 02:44 AM
Warlock do able to 1 hit people before Hall of Abyss patch with (amplified for someone with brain that use cold proof potion , valk shield , 2 water drop brooch and nyd garb) TV using empowered Aqua sets because old Dragon Breath force people to use Lucius[Marc]
People are so predictable when they just do what everyone else does, instead of thinking of their own tactics themselves.
Quote from: ggwp on Dec 27, 2014, 02:44 AM
Not everyone have Millenium Shield , sharing it would need newest skill patch Lux Anima rune with 3 Gold as ingredients. I just said RK just for comparison because if RK have the most HP still die to damage from Vellum Claw G-fist , every other job will die too.
Not my problem if other people don't have it, right?
Quote from: ggwp on Dec 27, 2014, 02:44 AM
Read the sentence before the bolded part /ok Why would you need to afraid fire damage on undead armor ? Valk Shield + Fireproof potion (and add another -20% resist from undead scroll on some dumb server with dark wing on hat maker) is 40% fire reduce so 150% x 60% = 90%. The target could have Piety (or holy scroll on some dumb server with white wing on hatmaker) instead if you going to say GX use aspersio. This is what I meant with "neutral / undead / holy armor guessing game"
What kind of s*** servers have you been playing? Some high rate "you have it all" thing? lol
OK, that was out of place, but sorry, I just can't help it lol. Just lol.
Quote from: ggwp on Dec 27, 2014, 02:44 AM
Get 2 four slotted weapons. Put 4 weapon card that have -50 sp when unequpped on there (like red ferus). Put the weapon on F7/F8 slot and activate /q2. Scroll your mouse when getting crystalized until sp reach 0. Use some sp item. Kill the dumb Sorc.
Or just use a Nauthiz rune before you approach the Sorc. 1 minute immunity. I don't know why you people love skipping out on Rune Mastery.
Quote from: ggwp on Dec 27, 2014, 02:44 AM
Knowing 1-2 steps ahead doesnt work when your opponent knows everything /ho
Time to retired from RO as christmas present for everyone so other people can have a chance competing Renewal server without me /heh
If your opponent knows everything, that includes his own weaknesses. If you don't know that, then too bad, you don't know everything.