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Offline Nuriel

[Renewal] class choice
« on: Dec 02, 2014, 04:01 PM »
Hi guys.
Its years since I played RO last time, just got back to check this and that out. Kinda liked ranger and RG on high rate before moving with friends to some mid-rate to spend some time there. I'm wondering how is Oboro doing in party MvP/party leveling (couldnt test it cuz it was bugged at the server i was playing).

Which classes would you recommend. I dont want to do any pvp or woe so what I want is just non time consuming fun class. Thats why I gave up idea of guillotine or genetic - poisons, equips, bombs.

Extended classes were always fun but well they were much weaker than trans. Are 2nd ext still much weaker than 3rds? Will lets say throwing oboro deal at least comparable dmg vs MVP as ranger/guillotine? What gear should it wear?

What else can do? RK seems weird since it looks like melee caster but maybe its fun? Maestro does not seem fun unless I can find another performer and none of my friends wants to play it. I do not like sorc somehow.

Thanks,
Nuriel

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Offline Astraeos

Re: [Renewal] class choice
« Reply #1 on: Dec 03, 2014, 10:44 AM »
Depends what tier of MVP you're talking about.

Low-Mid Tier, any class can do any MVP in Renewal.
High Tier - Rune Knight, Genetic, Sura, Maestro and Arch Bishop are all you need to do any MVP as a group. I quit before Oboro's became a thing, but there's magic damage with the Charms and all that had some pretty ridiculous damage output.

Rune Knight is only needed for Ghost MVPs, DB is anything but melee and very op.
Genetic for high HP MVPs.
Maestro is a slave for Bragi, I always just had this duel cliented in ET and such
Sura is typical, but used for MS tanking. With the right set up you don't even need pots on the thing.
Arch Bishop, personally i find support classes fun to play and its a pretty easy job, you just need to be paying attention.

Offline Nuriel

Re: [Renewal] class choice
« Reply #2 on: Dec 03, 2014, 11:28 AM »
Thank you for your input Astraeos.
I'd prob go with AB but already 2 of my friends decided to go AB way so another would be just useless.
Maestro as bragi slave is quite obvious - noone needs to play it. Maybe there would be a point to actively play Maestro with at least one more in pt to use chorus skills.
Genetic requires bombs and I wont have enough time to farm it

But I think you may be true with RK. Could you post some leveling build 100-130/40/50 or whenever it'd be worth to switch to DB?

Also still interested in opinions about oboro and his gear/stats/builds and how he runs compared to other classes.

Offline ggwp

Re: [Renewal] class choice
« Reply #3 on: Dec 03, 2014, 09:12 PM »
What Astreos said is for 150-160 skill patch renewal. In 175 skill patch NOTHING beats Ranger with Unlimit on PvM / MvP (to the point experienced Ranger can solo WM / VR / Beelz / Ifrit in duration of one Unlimit buff). Self-buffed Ranger with +8 Giant Crossbow and +9 WW suit deals 150-200k normal AS to MvP and 450-600k AS with Unlimit buff. Fully-buffed Ranger (Striking , Windmill Rush Attack , Distorted Crescent Moon , Odin Power , Weapon Perfection) could easily deal 600-800k AS with Unlimit.

Dark Crow (GX 175 skill that amplifies meele pshysical hit in few seconds so timing is important) and Lexed Ashura is good too if you do it with 3 people. This could easily reach 3-4m on DC+Lex ed Ashura and 1m on Lexed Ashura. Good for doing Bio 3/4 MvP as long they have direct warp to MvP level. Doing instant last 3m damage means you can skip that annoying 30% HP summon another 5-6 mini boss phase.

RK = good PvM , good MvP , great PvP
RG = good PvM , good MvP , good PvP
AB = your support class , sacrament is mandatory buff
Shura = weak PvM , great MvP , great PvP
Ranger = OP PvM , OP MvP , weak PvP
Minstrel / Wanderer = support
Warlock = good PvM , dont try MvP , weak PvP
Sorc = good PvM , good MVP , good PvP
GX = good PvM , weak MvP , good PvP
SC = weak PvM , weak MvP , great PvP
Genetic = time consuming PvM , good MvP , great PvP
Mechanic = weak PvM , weak MvP , great PvP
Kage / Obo = good PvM , weak MvP , great PvP
Rebellion = good PvM , weak MvP , feeder PVP
Best joke of the year.

Whitesmith are still of the most feared and most stongest Killers on PVP and WOE.

Offline Astraeos

Re: Re: [Renewal] class choice
« Reply #4 on: Dec 04, 2014, 03:31 PM »
What Astreos said is for 150-160 skill patch renewal. In 175 skill patch NOTHING beats Ranger with Unlimit on PvM / MvP (to the point experienced Ranger can solo WM / VR / Beelz / Ifrit in duration of one Unlimit buff). Self-buffed Ranger with +8 Giant Crossbow and +9 WW suit deals 150-200k normal AS to MvP and 450-600k AS with Unlimit buff. Fully-buffed Ranger (Striking , Windmill Rush Attack , Distorted Crescent Moon , Odin Power , Weapon Perfection) could easily deal 600-800k AS with Unlimit.

LOL wtf, I quit when Rangers were doing 35k, 193 aspd warg strikes. Now this. Redunkulous.

But I think you may be true with RK. Could you post some leveling build 100-130/40/50 or whenever it'd be worth to switch to DB?

Also still interested in opinions about oboro and his gear/stats/builds and how he runs compared to other classes.
Just realize that Oboro and Kagerou have a couple different skills based on the gender of the account. I don't remember which is better at what. ggwp would probably know better then I would with that.

For RK, I spiral pierce leveled (before Gloomy nerf) until I had DB10 then immediately went to Scaraba. Again, I'm not too sure what's going to be best option for this. There may have been more recent patches with better places to level, but Scaraba has always been simple to do on a RK.

Offline Yozakura

Re: [Renewal] class choice
« Reply #5 on: Dec 07, 2014, 01:26 AM »
Rune Knight is possibly one of the most versatile classes in the game, looking at them as nothing more than DB casters is severely limiting. Ignition Break was beefed up in the rebalancing patch (along with the "Gloomy Nerf"), and chaining it with Bowling Bash easily outclasses Dragon Breath in terms of DPS. Not to mention it's not forced element like DB. I would highly recommend taking your pick on one of those Mora sets (Ur for spear/HP/reducs, Peuz for two-handed sword/DPS) and experiment your own builds around them. Ignition Break chains well with both Hundred Spear (with Ur set, heavier burst damage) and Sonic Wave (with Peuz set, faster DPS). Nobody plays exactly the same way, so it's always best to make a build that is very much your own.

Royal Guard is pretty darned good too, but kinda suffers in the AOE DPS area compared to RKs, as their primary Overbrand has a 2-second after-cast delay (and not just cooldown) and is interruptable (so you need a Phen). Otherwise, they do pretty well in both solo and party situations, but don't expect the same damage output you'd do on a Rune Knight. Needless to say, defense and survivability is way better.

And like everyone else says, Ranger is OP as hell, but you're used to playing melee classes (like I am), you might have a hard time keeping your distance with it. They're squishy as heck. x.x

“On that day, the bees received a grim reminder. They lived in fear of the hornets and were disgraced to live in these cages they called hives."

» 新劇の雀蜂 «

Offline Nuriel

Re: [Renewal] class choice
« Reply #6 on: Dec 07, 2014, 02:45 AM »
Thanks for your answers guys.

I like rangers but spamming AS is kinda boring in the long run and its probably only good build for PvM/MvP outside auto-warg strike (which does not use any skills :P)

You make me think more and more about RK. Could you post rough stat distribution and weapon of choice for IB build with spear? Somehow I dont really like BB.

Offline Astraeos

Re: [Renewal] class choice
« Reply #7 on: Dec 08, 2014, 10:47 AM »
High INT,
High VIT,
High Dex,
Decent AGI. I was working with 180+ aspd almost all the time and pretty fast cast.

This video might help show how RKs are used in ET, and provide you an example of if you'd like playing the class, you don't need these items to be effective the set up is enough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1whGj7I_QuM

Offline inzanity

Re: Re: [Renewal] class choice
« Reply #8 on: Dec 08, 2014, 09:45 PM »
What Astreos said is for 150-160 skill patch renewal. In 175 skill patch NOTHING beats Ranger with Unlimit on PvM / MvP (to the point experienced Ranger can solo WM / VR / Beelz / Ifrit in duration of one Unlimit buff). Self-buffed Ranger with +8 Giant Crossbow and +9 WW suit deals 150-200k normal AS to MvP and 450-600k AS with Unlimit buff. Fully-buffed Ranger (Striking , Windmill Rush Attack , Distorted Crescent Moon , Odin Power , Weapon Perfection) could easily deal 600-800k AS with Unlimit.

Dark Crow (GX 175 skill that amplifies meele pshysical hit in few seconds so timing is important) and Lexed Ashura is good too if you do it with 3 people. This could easily reach 3-4m on DC+Lex ed Ashura and 1m on Lexed Ashura. Good for doing Bio 3/4 MvP as long they have direct warp to MvP level. Doing instant last 3m damage means you can skip that annoying 30% HP summon another 5-6 mini boss phase.

RK = good PvM , good MvP , great PvP
RG = good PvM , good MvP , good PvP
AB = your support class , sacrament is mandatory buff
Shura = weak PvM , great MvP , great PvP
Ranger = OP PvM , OP MvP , weak PvP
Minstrel / Wanderer = support
Warlock = good PvM , dont try MvP , weak PvP
Sorc = good PvM , good MVP , good PvP
GX = good PvM , weak MvP , good PvP
SC = weak PvM , weak MvP , great PvP
Genetic = time consuming PvM , good MvP , great PvP
Mechanic = weak PvM , weak MvP , great PvP
Kage / Obo = good PvM , weak MvP , great PvP
Rebellion = good PvM , weak MvP , feeder PVP
Mostly agree with you, but some things are pretty damn wrong.
I want to correct a few things here:

RK = good PvM , good MvP , great PvP
RG = good PvM , good MvP , good PvP
AB = your support class , sacrament is mandatory buff (With Mora gear can easily deal with any undead/shadow mvp)
Shura = weak PvM , great MvP , great PvP
Ranger = OP PvM , OP MvP , weak PvP
Minstrel / Wanderer = support (Can easily level in PVE and is a great PVP disruptor, too.) Good PvE, Weak MVP, Good PvP
Warlock = good PvM , dont try MvP , great PvP (Weak in PVP? I guess you never played against a good Warlock... SW, WI, Telekinesis, together with +3 cast range and Sunlight Box, gl winning. Got Ice Wall for anti-targeting too. Can be REALLY cheap if played right. WI has a 90% success chance. Telekinesis + WI means you lose. Always.)
Sorc = good PvM , decent MVP , great PvP (Sorcs are not great in MVPing, maybe low tier ones. You probably meant their supporting/spawning role? Also theyre ridic strong in PvP if played properly. Gear scales also extremely well on them and having insta cast on most skills can f*** you up. Ever saw a decent sorc working with insignias? ;D)
GX = good PvM , Strong MvP , Great PvP (Clearly you never saw a Mvping GX soloing Beelze with 0 effort. Since rA fixed their skills theyre really strong in PvP now, because people dont ever farm Argiope Card. Venom Impress is cheap. Their OP weapon (GX katar) can be easily pve farmed. Try crit builds. :D)
SC = weak PvM , weak MvP , great PvP
Genetic = Good PvE , Great MvP , great PvP (Nothing time consuming about using cart cannon lol. Stupidly strong skill. AD with its proper formula now is just silly if you play it right. Also Sacra halves it cast time flat. get some Delay reduction and you can spam AD insanely fast easily equaling the DPS of Unlimited AS. Needs better gears than a simple WWS for sure, has less range, but equal power)
Mechanic = Decent PvM , weak MvP , great PvP (With the 175 skill, they can actually cheese level all the way to 175.)
Kage / Obo = good PvM , weak MvP , great PvP
Rebellion = good PvM , good MvP , feeder PVP (Slugshot lel)

Offline Yozakura

Re: [Renewal] class choice
« Reply #9 on: Dec 09, 2014, 03:54 AM »
Thanks for your answers guys.

I like rangers but spamming AS is kinda boring in the long run and its probably only good build for PvM/MvP outside auto-warg strike (which does not use any skills :P)

You make me think more and more about RK. Could you post rough stat distribution and weapon of choice for IB build with spear? Somehow I dont really like BB.

Bowling Bash is, well, you're best leveling skill until you get Ignition Break, and by then, chaining them together (BB->IB->repeat; since IB has a 2-second cooldown) is very effective as well. You'll do well with anything with high base attack (yes, base, not +bonus atk; I'll explain later), which is provided by most two-handed swords and spears. If you like Parrying, Alca Bringer are ideal, due to its 280 base atk, but if you prefer having a shield for reducs, go with the highest atk spear you can find (Hunting Spear for example).

As for why you want base attack--the way stats affect damage in renewal has some interesting bits you should keep in mind:

• For melee weapons, you get +1 status attack every 1 STR, 5 DEX, 3 LUK, and 4 base levels.
• For ranged weapons, you get +1 status attack every 1 DEX, 5 STR, 3 LUK, and 4 base levels.
• For mages, you get +1 status magic attack every 1 INT, 5 DEX, 3 LUK, and 4 base levels.

^ This is basic, most people already know this, and you probably already do, but for the heck of it, I included it anyway.

Now for the interesting part:

• Bows, guns, instruments and whips, spears and two-handed swords get a +0.5% base weapon attack bonus for every point of DEX.
• Every other weapon type gets a +0.5% base weapon attack bonus for every point of STR.
• If the weapon has a magic attack part, it gets a 0.5% base magic attack bonus for every point of INT.

This means, the higher your weapon's base attack is, the more you get out of the stat. For a Rune Knight, whose primary weapons are spears and two-handed swords, DEX enhances your weapon damage, while STR boosts your status attack. Which is why it's more ideal to have 90~ on both STR and DEX, rather than max one out and leave the other.

If you decide to go spears and use the Ur set, I'd suggest going for the VIT/INT Astraeos recommends, and drop the AGI completely (it's not gonna do you anything--your aspd is gonna suck either way, might as well spend it on VIT/INT). You can double with Hundred Spears/Ignition Break chain at melee range, and as Dragon Breath caster at long range. It's generally a very effective and flexible build. If you're playing in a 175/60 server, it should be easy to reach 100~ STR and DEX, and both INT and VIT at 110+ (or vice versa). This generally has a better survivability due to Ur set having neutral reductions and HP boosts.

If you decide to go two-handed sword and use the [generally ignored] Peuz set, I'd recommend getting a substantial amount of AGI and LUK, along with enough VIT and INT for status resist. This build excels in physical DPS and chains Sonic Wave/Ignition Break, has a generally faster damage output due to two-handed swords having much higher base ATK than spears, and can also utilize Dragon Breath, which of course will be slightly weaker than the spear build due to lower health. Also note that Sonic Wave has a 9-cell range, so when fighting enemies you can't tank, you can go hit and run "Ranger mode." Overall a more versatile build, but also more risky (and fun). If you're playing in a 175/60 server, it's possible to hit 90+ on all STR, DEX, AGI, 100 total on both VIT and INT (for status resist) and 80~ luck. In addition, with a Two-hand Quicken, Berserk Potion, Asir rune, Full Throttle, and (optional) stat foods, you can easily hit max aspd, without wasting too much status points on AGI, all while having enough crit to screw things around.

Feel free to tweak around, mess around, and experiment on the build yourselves, that's always the best way to find the best one that works for you. ;)

“On that day, the bees received a grim reminder. They lived in fear of the hornets and were disgraced to live in these cages they called hives."

» 新劇の雀蜂 «

Offline ggwp

Re: [Renewal] class choice
« Reply #10 on: Dec 09, 2014, 04:50 AM »
Quote
Warlock = good PvM , dont try MvP , great PvP (Weak in PVP? I guess you never played against a good Warlock... SW, WI, Telekinesis, together with +3 cast range and Sunlight Box, gl winning. Got Ice Wall for anti-targeting too. Can be REALLY cheap if played right. WI has a 90% success chance. Telekinesis + WI means you lose. Always.)

I guess you never played against people with brain. Magic damage is a JOKE in 175/60 server where you can use WoE set and Dark Rosary. 60% demi reduce and 60 mdef (around 40% reduction in renewal) means even amplied Tetra Vortex with empowered mora sets wont kill people. Ice Wall trick is easily countered by shift+clicking the WL.

Quote
Sorc = good PvM , decent MVP , great PvP (Sorcs are not great in MVPing, maybe low tier ones. You probably meant their supporting/spawning role? Also theyre ridic strong in PvP if played properly. Gear scales also extremely well on them and having insta cast on most skills can f*** you up. Ever saw a decent sorc working with insignias?

Their support skill is good thats why they good on party MvPing. While in PvP they only kill baddies because magic damage is a JOKE or they ended up just supporting other party member.

Quote
GX = good PvM , Strong MvP , Great PvP (Clearly you never saw a Mvping GX soloing Beelze with 0 effort. Since rA fixed their skills theyre really strong in PvP now, because people dont ever farm Argiope Card. Venom Impress is cheap. Their OP weapon (GX katar) can be easily pve farmed. Try crit builds. )

The fact they have to get Poison bottle just to be on par with other MvP classes already give huge minus point. 0 Effort when doing Beelze is atleast 4x hunterfly DB RK with bard slave or that Ranger easy warg never get hit kiting cheese. They dont farm Argiope card because people with brain will just use Evil Druid and smart GX will use converter instead showing in their opponent face they use poison element. They use 2 handed weapon while other top tier pvp class use shield while dishing equal damage. No shield means 30% reduce vs 60% reduce (or more if your server have those mid/low reduce gear). Only brainless player dies to crit build GX.

Quote
Genetic = Good PvE , Great MvP , great PvP (Nothing time consuming about using cart cannon lol. Stupidly strong skill. AD with its proper formula now is just silly if you play it right. Also Sacra halves it cast time flat. get some Delay reduction and you can spam AD insanely fast easily equaling the DPS of Unlimited AS. Needs better gears than a simple WWS for sure, has less range, but equal power)

Cart Cannon is strong IF you follow those iRO / pRO "everyone have to use godly gear or become trash" guide. With normal private server and normal gears CC only do 10-20k damage which only good on monster below 130. But because Cart Cannon have weird damage formula (Int increase damage) you need to raise Str , Int , Dex , Vit which means when you already have good stats the skills are not that good anymore.

10x Homunculus rates tooks approx 15 hour to reach loyal or 6 days if the server have 1x homun rates and another few hours to train that homunculus to max , way more if its Amistr -> Eira PvP homun. If this aint "time-consuming" yet , add farming mats to make bottle and other things (say hello to those stupidly time wasting Prickly Fruit farming BS).

Quote
If you like Parrying, Alca Bringer are ideal, due to its 280 base atk

Violet Fear > Tegron / Tae Goo Lyeon > Krasnaya > Death Guidance > Alca Bringer due to slots are important too.
But still Tegron +9 effect can beat +9 Violet in term of DPS especially with how easy you can do Sealed Shrine in renewal.
Best joke of the year.

Whitesmith are still of the most feared and most stongest Killers on PVP and WOE.

Offline Yozakura

Re: [Renewal] class choice
« Reply #11 on: Dec 09, 2014, 05:39 AM »
Violet Fear > Tegron / Tae Goo Lyeon > Krasnaya > Death Guidance > Alca Bringer due to slots are important too.
But still Tegron +9 effect can beat +9 Violet in term of DPS especially with how easy you can do Sealed Shrine in renewal.

Yep, VF is ideal, but it's not exactly easy to get, so Alca does the trick. Krasnaya is also pretty good, but it's lackluster due to being weapon level 2, it hits its peak early, and you'll replace it quickly anyway. Alcabringer is pretty much all-rounder, and given its ASPD bonus and high base ATK, it's an ideal weapon to go along with your specialized gear, as a middle-ground weapon. I'd have to agree with Death Guidance though. That +20 pdodge and 2 slots makes it ideal for solo MVPing (obviously with 2 AK cards). Works wonders with Parrying. And there's Bloody Eater (ideally with two Mao Guai cards) vs ghosts.

“On that day, the bees received a grim reminder. They lived in fear of the hornets and were disgraced to live in these cages they called hives."

» 新劇の雀蜂 «

Offline inzanity

Re: [Renewal] class choice
« Reply #12 on: Dec 09, 2014, 08:28 AM »
Quote
• Bows, guns, instruments and whips, spears and two-handed swords get a +0.5% base weapon attack bonus for every point of DEX.

Wrong, has been long fixed. Spears and Swords pull from STR as much as other melee class weapons.

@ggwp

Erm Magic Damage is a joke? xD Just cuz people can stack some easy 80 Hard mdef? Physical damage is a joke too, because people can stack 300 Hard Def too. Infact in WoE not even Asura or Combo can One shot me. Unless they run around with MvP Cards. 60 MDEF is 35%~ at most. No Warlock will bother getting tetra on you, unless they are trash. But as i said, you prolly never fought a decent one. In my post i also never MENTIONED tetra at all, so iunno why you name it.

Sorc, as mentioned above. Remember that magic classes have access to Vellum and BG weapons as much as Melee ones have. My Spellfist on a crystallized target deals, including siege set, 23k per hit times 5 :). Crystalizzed means no form of counter attacking or potting, you cant even butterfly yo. But Sorcs huge power doesnt come from their Damage my friend. It comes from the insane utility they bring to every defense line.

Now about Gx...youre missing the point. Also you probably never used mind games on opponents, which high end pvp is all about... If a GX used venom impress on you, who exactly tells you hes 100% using Poison? If you use ED and he uses fire ure fcked. EDPs are so easy to get now, i dont consider it a requirement. Invest a few and u got hundreds. Ever heard of gear switching? While running like a chicken no one forces you to stay on the katar l0l. Crit build is a PVE vuild bro. If you need proof how on kRO you can easily deal 100k crit dmg, well.... Its an expensive build but it works on most Mid rates and even some low rates, due how easy it is to access content thanks to warper. You probably never heard of temporal boots. Again, dont let inexperience cloud your judgement.

I lvl'd with CC till scaraba, dealing easy 30k a pop, with just fire endow from a sage and avg. gear. The skill formula is nice because it works great with ADs formula. Youre not wasting many points on it and its highly spammable with the right gears.

And at the end, i want to say that you can have alca bringer with 2 slots.. Making your "theyre all better due to slots" argument silly. (Item ID: 21004) I generally agree that imho TGL is the best 2hand to keep at high refine. The delay and cast is just 2 good.

just my 3 cents. I gave my opinion, no ones forces u to agree with it. :)

Offline Yozakura

Re: Re: [Renewal] class choice
« Reply #13 on: Dec 09, 2014, 11:28 AM »
Wrong, has been long fixed. Spears and Swords pull from STR as much as other melee class weapons.

Oh was it? Funny I never noticed, as I always have STR/DEX at around equal amounts.

Erm Magic Damage is a joke? xD Just cuz people can stack some easy 80 Hard mdef? Physical damage is a joke too, because people can stack 300 Hard Def too. Infact in WoE not even Asura or Combo can One shot me. Unless they run around with MvP Cards. 60 MDEF is 35%~ at most. No Warlock will bother getting tetra on you, unless they are trash. But as i said, you prolly never fought a decent one. In my post i also never MENTIONED tetra at all, so iunno why you name it.

"The strongest skill" dilemma I guess. Tetra is hardly a threat unless you're COMPLETELY OPEN (which would be hilarious), it's always the combinations of the other spells to watch out for. Warlock isn't a first-attack-one-hit-wonder class. They play tricks on you, and once they get you to bite, it's over.

I lvl'd with CC till scaraba, dealing easy 30k a pop, with just fire endow from a sage and avg. gear. The skill formula is nice because it works great with ADs formula. Youre not wasting many points on it and its highly spammable with the right gears.

Exactly.

And at the end, i want to say that you can have alca bringer with 2 slots.. Making your "theyre all better due to slots" argument silly. (Item ID: 21004) I generally agree that imho TGL is the best 2hand to keep at high refine. The delay and cast is just 2 good.

iirc the 2-slot alcabringer loses the attack speed refine bonus, and since it's still a level 3 weapon, VF and Tegron outclass it anyway. Still pretty decent though, given its massive base atk.

“On that day, the bees received a grim reminder. They lived in fear of the hornets and were disgraced to live in these cages they called hives."

» 新劇の雀蜂 «

Offline inzanity

Re: [Renewal] class choice
« Reply #14 on: Dec 09, 2014, 04:32 PM »
^
It was always like this. But rAs code was screwed.

TV isnt the strgonest skill.

It dosnt loose its bonus. stop using RMS for refence, its outdated and 90% misleading for anything past 14.1