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Author Topic: Why are there no popular lowrate vanilla pre-re servers?  (Read 5731 times)

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Offline lunker

I get the general sense that vanilla pre-re is the most popular form of RO, yet all I see these days are Renewal/Classic/Revo servers.  Am I wrong in thinking that pre-re is popular?

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Offline Orange

Re: Why are there no popular lowrate vanilla pre-re servers?
« Reply #1 on: Jul 09, 2018, 07:46 PM »
The top 10 low rates on RMS is 4 pre-re, 3 renewal, 2 classic and 1 revo.

Midrate is 7 pre-re, 3 renewal. Highrate is 8-2. A lot of the draw of the pre-re is afaik WoE being good, so if you're playing pre-re its likely because you think it has better pvp/woe, and if you're playing for pvp/woe then it makes more sense to play a mid-highrate

So I'm not sure where you're getting the "everything these days is renewal/etc" - I'm going to take a guess and say that you're looking at primarily newly opened servers. It's a set up market with more servers already, and as you said people like vanilla pre-re. If there's already ~20 good pre-re servers, and you can't do much to stand out or people don't like the changes then why enter that competition?

Revo classic is also new so you'll be seeing a higher frequency of them being opened in the meantime.
:3

Offline lunker

Re: Why are there no popular lowrate vanilla pre-re servers?
« Reply #2 on: Jul 09, 2018, 09:14 PM »
I suppose I have other filter criteria, that being English servers.  By my count the top ten lowrates are 1 pre-re / 3 renewal / 2 classic / 1 revo.  TalonRO does not count because it's not vanilla at all.

Furthermore the pre-re servers that do exist always have terrible population (sub 100).  There aren't any populated vanilla low rates pre-re's which is just odd to me.  Can it really be that vanilla pre-re players are all playing mid/high rates?

Like before GGRO, DoMRO, and RoMRO we still had some servers that would pull 100-300 players happen every half-year or so.  But I hardly ever see these anymore.
« Last Edit: Jul 09, 2018, 09:45 PM by lunker »

Offline Orange

Like before GGRO, DoMRO, and RoMRO we still had some servers that would pull 100-300 players happen every half-year or so.  But I hardly ever see these anymore.

Before then renewal was often poorly implemented/buggy so fewer people opened renewal servers and even if one did, most people had it in their minds that renewal was buggy/sucked in general. That's changed over the years and more people are happy to play on renewal. We now also have revo classic, meaning the population is sharded even more.

There's also the fact that the server open > gief moni pls > server close got worse and worse which I assume pushed more people into playing highrates, rather than get invested in a server like GGRO where they openly advertised that the server will die in in <1 year.

There's now more choice than ever, classic, pre-re, renewal, revo and then you have vanilla+heavily customized in each of those categories.
« Last Edit: Jul 13, 2018, 05:39 AM by Orange »
:3

Offline Zinnia

Re: Why are there no popular lowrate vanilla pre-re servers?
« Reply #4 on: Jul 12, 2018, 05:32 AM »
To be honest I wouldn't be against the idea of launching a true vanilla low rates server as we did with dom and rom, but I want to build it in a way that it is a sustainable business model that can last for at least 18 months.

Offline draugadrottinn

Re: Why are there no popular lowrate vanilla pre-re servers?
« Reply #5 on: Jul 14, 2018, 05:49 AM »
i think its because vanilla pre renewal servers are played by older generations. while renewal and classic revo are played by alot younger players which just started playing RO when it was already renewal or classic revo. vanilla pre renewal taste best because its really feels nostalgic when we were playing it. most vanilla pre renewal players already got children or working so they got almost no time to play. i dont think its easy to attract younger players who started playing RO at renewal or classic revo patch. if someone want to commit in making vanilla pre renewal server they must know that they only can attracts old players. for classic server mostly played by old players too especially who quit before pre renewal patch. but mostly played by pre renewal players who want to nostalgic how were things before pre renewal. some said classic more balanced compare pre renewal though, that's why some prefer classic server.

Offline Charity Case

Re: Why are there no popular lowrate vanilla pre-re servers?
« Reply #6 on: Jul 24, 2018, 01:51 AM »
i wouldnt say there is no popular ones,originsro is pretty good pre re server.
progressive updates is the best way for pre re servers to last long time,which is one of the reaons ,imo,originsro is still around for so many years.

Offline yennar

Re: Why are there no popular lowrate vanilla pre-re servers?
« Reply #7 on: Jul 24, 2018, 03:05 AM »
I get the general sense that vanilla pre-re is the most popular form of RO, yet all I see these days are Renewal/Classic/Revo servers.  Am I wrong in thinking that pre-re is popular?

what really is vanille pre-re low rate?
In my opinion that's a server like an official one without any comforts, but they won't get a huge fanbase.

Some People may come and play, but then you'll see how SLOW leveling really is on 1x. Nowadays nobody wants to invest much time to level a character on a random private server for hours on end to reach maxlvl.
The Players will demand exp events, maybe some quests to level faster, so a server with 2-3x rates will go up to effective 5-10x rates. Maybe make that double with Bubblegums, nom nom.
Then they will complain about autoloot, warp, more/less cash-shop items, etc.
Don't even get started with WoE-usables.
And don't forget the Reseter. Don't even think of making a server without the f****ing Reseter!

Long story short: The fanbase for a true vanilla RO server is pretty limited. People are too used to comfort.

Offline draugadrottinn

what really is vanille pre-re low rate?
In my opinion that's a server like an official one without any comforts, but they won't get a huge fanbase.

Some People may come and play, but then you'll see how SLOW leveling really is on 1x. Nowadays nobody wants to invest much time to level a character on a random private server for hours on end to reach maxlvl.
The Players will demand exp events, maybe some quests to level faster, so a server with 2-3x rates will go up to effective 5-10x rates. Maybe make that double with Bubblegums, nom nom.
Then they will complain about autoloot, warp, more/less cash-shop items, etc.
Don't even get started with WoE-usables.
And don't forget the Reseter. Don't even think of making a server without the f****ing Reseter!

Long story short: The fanbase for a true vanilla RO server is pretty limited. People are too used to comfort.
more likely peoples dont want to challenge themselves into hardcore level. 1x without any exp boost surely hard but really challenging and fun.
i agree with the part that peoples dont want invest their time on 1x low rate private server. even i prefer to do it on official but in the end i disappointed with their battle manual and botters. both makes the game not fun and challenging especially bots. i tried some official servers and end up quit all of them because all i see alot of bots. anyone can get rich and high level without doing anything with bots. alot of players quit official servers because of bots.
but true vanilla RO server like 1x exp and drop or lower drop rate with just gears that dropped by mobs would be best server but hardly get fan since everyone want it easy way. gears that not dropped by mobs usually more OP than normal drops.
no autoloot makes the game more challenging. also with woe supplies that need to farm i think it makes the woe more balanced since not many peoples willing to make high consumables classes. LK probably more popular same as sniper.
i think if anyone want open this kind of server they should do polling on how many willing to join.
unless they willing to open the server with their own money. soon or later players will come as long the server stay alive and advertised.

Offline lllaaazzz

Re: Why are there no popular lowrate vanilla pre-re servers?
« Reply #9 on: Jul 24, 2018, 01:26 PM »
uhh because this game is 20 years old, and they stopped updating pre re officially like 10 years ago

sorry friend

Offline Bottles

more likely peoples dont want to challenge themselves into hardcore level. 1x without any exp boost surely hard but really challenging and fun.
/heh

Offline draugadrottinn

/heh
yeah i was playing official server and its quite fun. and several months ago with new official servers i played for a while and its still fun but bots kills the fun.

Offline Judgement

Re: Re: Why are there no popular lowrate vanilla pre-re servers?
« Reply #12 on: Jul 26, 2018, 02:46 AM »
Like before GGRO, DoMRO, and RoMRO we still had some servers that would pull 100-300 players happen every half-year or so.  But I hardly ever see these anymore.

ya answered yourself.  Who would want to join a low rate vanilla server when they just die out every 3-6 months?
Super Smash Brothers 64!

Offline Insomnia2000

uhh because this game is 20 years old, and they stopped updating pre re officially like 10 years ago

sorry friend
ya answered yourself.  Who would want to join a low rate vanilla server when they just die out every 3-6 months?

These are the main reasons why there aren't any pre-re low rate vanilla servers. Pre-RE content is 10 years old with nothing new which grows stagnant for the mostly veteran playerbase, which causes them to get bored, resulting in servers closing after a few months when 75% of the players stop logging in and the admin feels like the server has failed.

Maybe the cycle has just repeated too many times and there's no market for it.

i wouldnt say there is no popular ones,originsro is pretty good pre re server.
progressive updates is the best way for pre re servers to last long time,which is one of the reaons ,imo,originsro is still around for so many years.

No way lol. Progression is why OriginsRO has had only 14 players on it for over 4 years. The server is still around because the owner doesn't care if it has 2 players or 200. Just so happens there are no other pre-re english servers, and with officials being all messed up, where else ya gonna go?

Offline Franky4Fingers

Re: Why are there no popular lowrate vanilla pre-re servers?
« Reply #14 on: Jul 27, 2018, 09:14 AM »

No way lol. Progression is why OriginsRO has had only 14 players on it for over 4 years. The server is still around because the owner doesn't care if it has 2 players or 200. Just so happens there are no other pre-re english servers, and with officials being all messed up, where else ya gonna go?

Meanwhile, origins is still doing well. 4 guilds of 20+ during WoE, parties every day etc... Stability pays off in the world of RO servers

Offline Bottles

Re: Why are there no popular lowrate vanilla pre-re servers?
« Reply #15 on: Jul 27, 2018, 01:51 PM »
RagnarokIslandRO, despite it's barren appearance, guild towns are easy to get and bg gets to 30v30 on a daily basis. However I've been on in the past 2 weeks or so and its gotten to 70v70 and we were blocked out from it being full

Offline lunker

These are the main reasons why there aren't any pre-re low rate vanilla servers. Pre-RE content is 10 years old with nothing new which grows stagnant for the mostly veteran playerbase, which causes them to get bored, resulting in servers closing after a few months when 75% of the players stop logging in and the admin feels like the server has failed.

Maybe the cycle has just repeated too many times and there's no market for it.

As much as I hate this I find this is the most convincing argument...  I've been in some guilds that seemed to know how to play and it does seem like they've done all the contents already.

I'm really in love with pre-re content and mechanics, but I haven't been able to do a lot of its contents.  Never been past f75? of Endless, never did God Iten quests, hardly explored New World stuff (I know it's renewal but it's fun to go there in a pre-re server).  With the current state of things I feel like I've missed my chance to experience these stuffs forever.  I mean I could do it on a mid-rate or something but the climb there is also part of the experience.

I'm not exactly sure why I am so repulsed by custom contents.  Maybe it's because I don't like the thought of gaining knowledge of RO only applicable to that server or something like that.  But it seems like that is an effective way to keep a server alive.  Is there really no hope for living out this vision of RO that I have?  Is pre-re just doomed because of its own nature?  Do we really not have any model for success for this kind of server?


Offline Playtester

Re: Why are there no popular lowrate vanilla pre-re servers?
« Reply #17 on: Oct 10, 2018, 09:22 AM »
Sorry for late reply, but wanted to add my impressions.

I personally still do think that vanilla pre-re is the best setup Ragnarok Online had. It had this unique feel of you exploring the vast world without anyone telling you what to do or where to go. You could just be like "Hey, let's do a Glastheim party today", run around Prontera and ask people to join you and it actually worked.

This made RO so special for me compared to all other MMORPGs where you just follow a linear line of endless quests and nobody ever joins you party out of instances because "sorry I'm doing a different quest".

And people are fairly vocal about missing the Ragnarok Online how it used to be. And yeah they aren't just a vocal minority, there are actually plenty people thinking this.

So why doesn't it work out?

First of all, let's look at these people. They are all veterans, probably 95% of them all played official RO before the renewal update at some point. Being veterans, they've seen everything already, they have mastered the game, know how to break it. You cannot party with them, because they have mastered the art of multi-clienting so well they can level up much faster playing 2-4 characters at once. Pretty much all priests on the server are just made as buff slaves rather than main characters. Without a priest, no good party.
So even if a pre-re vanilla server with a great admin opens up, the playerbase itself is already making it impossible to re-live the good old times.

For that to work, we would need new players, which is the second issue. Imagine you're a new player. You heard about Ragnarok Online from a friend or because you requested an MMORPG and got suggested that. If you're lucky, people might even have suggested you to check out private servers because the official ones lag and are full of bots. What are you doing? Well you certainly never heard about emulators or RMS. So you just google for "Ragnarok Online best private server" or something. And what you get as result are these strange toplist sites. The top entry is usually a high rate server, because HRs are simply the most popular due to many people just wanting to do WoE and not care about leveling. Now, you might already figure a high rate ruins your experience as new player (but most people will probably not figure that), so instead you pick the first low rate server you find, which is TalonRO. You can read what customization TalonRO has, but as a new players those lists are completely meaningless to you as you don't know what's good and what's bad. If anything you as a new player would think that "the more updated the better" and refrain from going to a pre-re server because you see other server being on a higher episode.

In short, new players either end up on official servers, a high rate server, a renewal server or TalonRO (which is not vanilla at all). A new player wouldn't even know how great it can feel to not have customizations or low rates. And after being spoiled by customizations and high rates, it's usually impossible to come back to vanilla, if you had never experienced it before. So the people who could potentially re-live all the great feelings we had when we first played RO and consequently also form parties are just not there.

The third issue is that the veterans on pre-re low rate servers are to a large portion pure WoE player that only don't play on high rate or instant WoE servers because they consider grinding and gearing up to be part of the WoE challenge. They don't care much about having fun partying up at all. That isn't bad in itself, but the problem is that WoE players are not too loyal to a server. Once all guilds are geared up, usually one guild crystalizes as being the strongest and eventually WoE stagnates because always the same guild wins. The other guilds leave for a new low rate pre-re server where they can gear up fresh again. That was the situation of pre-re low rate vanilla servers from like 2009 to 2016. And you know what happened to the PVM player of those servers? They stuck with the server until it died, then moved to the next whenever a promising one came up and then eventually they grew tired of server hopping and said "Screw it, I'm going to TalonRO, at least that one doesn't close after 3 months". You can bet that by now the remaining players that actually would like to play vanilla pre-re RO and haven't quit RO yet are actually on TalonRO despite its customizations. Because a stable server and large populations in the end beats the wish for reliving the good old vanilla times.

There might still be a thousand people around that would love to play vanilla pre-re RO again, but they are all tired of server hopping and veteran players who only care about min-maxing and have given up on ever experience it again.

And there might be thousands of people who never played an MMORPG before and would love pre-re vanilla RO if it's their first MMORPG experience, but they will never even end up there.

Offline Esperite

Re: Re: Why are there no popular lowrate vanilla pre-re servers?
« Reply #18 on: Oct 13, 2018, 07:56 AM »
Sorry for late reply, but wanted to add my impressions.

[...]

That indeed looks to be part of the reason TalonRO keeps a good population size among other things. I'm probably one of the minority (non-WoE players) who wants to play a new/good low rate server that is mainly focused on PvM features that isn't like TalonRO's level of customization (I do like some customization, but it ultimately depends on what it is). At least those server's players are more loyal and would likely stay for a while. I even stayed on two non-dual clienting servers for a while that had a population of less than 20 (1-2 venders at most), and it was great. Now imagine if it was 100+ (though it's hard to properly enforce no dual clienting on a large scale server). These servers, of course, should have WoE too, it just shouldn't be the main thing that keeps the server alive. It'll be pretty hard to get a successful server like that these days though.

Btw, thanks for the TK fixes on rAthena and all the other contributions you've done there!
Living in the wilderness...